Agree with all except 3. I hate random encounters, I love to have lots of encounters that are related to some quest or the dragon age lore/codex etc.
JRPG elements that could make a game like DA:O even better?
Débuté par
RetrOldSchool
, janv. 02 2010 09:36
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#127
Posté 01 février 2010 - 04:42
Wesley Wyndam Price
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Ugh...No thank you. DA:O is fine already. 90 Percent of Jrpgs have horrible dialog that makes my brain hurt.
So please no retarded spikey hair or overly emo lead characters for Dragon Age.
So please no retarded spikey hair or overly emo lead characters for Dragon Age.
#128
Posté 01 février 2010 - 05:44
TyroneTasty
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1. Special attacks possibly, however it would have to be like nothing JRPGs special attacks usually tend to be ridiculous and game breaking, but otherwise sure why not.
2. While returning bad guys makes for some fun battles, it's also a bit comical when you beat a guy three times and he keeps saying, "Oh you got me! But I'll be back! Heee heee heee!!!" In the Dragon Age world you either kill someone or you don't, or you choose to let them go. Also, your work around for the run away device makes him seem so insignificant, it seems he shouldn't be there at all.
3. Agree. Even BGII seemed to do a better job at this to some extent. I would have appreciated a few more mid-way points to fill out the world and you could be sure the devs would but I guess they just had to focus on the release date and getting the key parts of the game completed.
4. Yes.
5. If it worked in Dragon Quest VIII (one of the better JRPGs I've played recently) then sure, why not add that into this one too. There was a definite need for more group dynamics, however, I suppose with the large variation of parties it's harder to invest time into this since it's so dependent on who is there and who is not.
2. While returning bad guys makes for some fun battles, it's also a bit comical when you beat a guy three times and he keeps saying, "Oh you got me! But I'll be back! Heee heee heee!!!" In the Dragon Age world you either kill someone or you don't, or you choose to let them go. Also, your work around for the run away device makes him seem so insignificant, it seems he shouldn't be there at all.
3. Agree. Even BGII seemed to do a better job at this to some extent. I would have appreciated a few more mid-way points to fill out the world and you could be sure the devs would but I guess they just had to focus on the release date and getting the key parts of the game completed.
4. Yes.
5. If it worked in Dragon Quest VIII (one of the better JRPGs I've played recently) then sure, why not add that into this one too. There was a definite need for more group dynamics, however, I suppose with the large variation of parties it's harder to invest time into this since it's so dependent on who is there and who is not.
Modifié par TyroneTasty, 01 février 2010 - 05:44 .
#129
Posté 01 février 2010 - 06:32
melkathi
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RetrOldSchool wrote...
2. "Returning" bad guys.
It's nice when bad guys are not just meet, kill and move on affairs. Having an antagonist oversee an ambush or to run into them somewhere you can't kill them a couple of times, helps build a relationship and can enhance the character.
In a way Arl Rendon Howe is Biowares tentative move in that direction.
Though damn, I loved the Turks in FF7
#130
Posté 01 février 2010 - 11:26
Big Mikey Mike
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Limit Break style moves could be quite a good way of making tanking more interactive - take damage, use special move.
#131
Posté 01 février 2010 - 01:31
Spuro
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Games like DA:O could do more with ambience sounds and music that makes certain JRPGs memorable in the emotional sense. For example, Denerim does not sound or feel like a capital city at.all.
#132
Posté 01 février 2010 - 02:28
melkathi
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Spuro wrote...
Games like DA:O could do more with ambience sounds and music that makes certain JRPGs memorable in the emotional sense. For example, Denerim does not sound or feel like a capital city at.all.
But that has been bioware's problem in their newer games. When they moved away from the iso view, or what they had in BG, maps by necessity became smaller and much of the feeling of truly being in a big city was lost. And sadly there is not enough ambience to make up for the small empty areas.
#133
Posté 01 février 2010 - 05:46
RetrOldSchool
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melkathi wrote...
Spuro wrote...
Games like DA:O could do more with ambience sounds and music that makes certain JRPGs memorable in the emotional sense. For example, Denerim does not sound or feel like a capital city at.all.
But that has been bioware's problem in their newer games. When they moved away from the iso view, or what they had in BG, maps by necessity became smaller and much of the feeling of truly being in a big city was lost. And sadly there is not enough ambience to make up for the small empty areas.
That's very true. In BG&BG2, both outdoor areas and cities were much bigger, that's something that I really miss.
I don't think the maps have to be that much smaller, just look at Bowerstone in Fable2.
I genuinly dislike that game but the city is pretty well presented. Also the smaller villages and the outdoor areas are very well done in Fable2 (if only the areas had a good story and gameplay to match:)) when comparing to Haven and Lothering.
#134
Posté 01 février 2010 - 06:13
Madriker
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Overall good requests but, personally, I don't think DA would benefit at all from any JRPG elements. Unlimited random battles were intentionally omitted from the game for a reason, and I am very glad they chose to do so. The feeling of a capital city is all in the design and atmosphere. I have to agree, Denerim just doesn't feel majestic or grand at all... I was surprised to see just how big the city map was when I first attempted to zone out of the marketplace.
One of the best elements of DA is the option to take my own path through the course of the story. One of the most annoying aspects of JRPGs is when they implement a 'yes' or 'no' option when you really don't have a choice at all... If you select 'no' the NPC whines and repeats the option until you say 'yes'... WTF is the point!?
One of the best elements of DA is the option to take my own path through the course of the story. One of the most annoying aspects of JRPGs is when they implement a 'yes' or 'no' option when you really don't have a choice at all... If you select 'no' the NPC whines and repeats the option until you say 'yes'... WTF is the point!?
#135
Posté 01 février 2010 - 06:29
jtd00123
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Sorry for the rant earlier. I'm just tired of JRPG fans thowing the same arguments as to why JRPG are better. They really boil down to these three arguments
1) JRPGs have better stories.
- Depends on what you mean by better stories. Sure, they have better stories when comparing to WRPGs that aren't centered around the story (WOW, Morrowind, etc.) but exploration. If we were to compare the top tier games of both genres, Baldur's Gate, Planescape etc. vs Persona, FF series, I would say that Western RPGs have better stories. The vast majority of WRPGs have subpar stories, but so do the vast majority of JRPGs. You really have to be selective when forming your argument.
2) JRPGs have better characters
Better designed characters or better character development? In terms of artistic design of characters, I'll give JRPGs the edge on that one. But what about personality of developement of the characters themselves? (important to most people when reading the story) Planescape had some of the deepest characters I've seen in video games. Same goes to some of the characters in KOTOR or Baldur's Gate. The last four JRPGs I've played for instance have characters that boil down to the same 5 anime archetypes: the depressed main character looking for purpose (usually male), the quiet yet confident warrior (male or female, who most of the time is guilt-ridden), the mentor (who can also fight, go figure) the overly peppy optimist (which annoys the crap out of me), and the innocent and naive female. I don't think a single character in FFVIII or X didn't fit this archetype, which is probably why I never finished XII. Granted, I am looking forward to 13 (keeping my hopes up), because I don't want to give up on a series b/c 7 was so good.
WRPGs such as Kotor aren’t afraid to put morally ambiguous characters as their protagonists, or even sociopaths. It seems that everyone in a JRPG has a heart of gold and the closest they come to being an
anti-hero is being a little depressed and brooding. It is a
play-it-safe mindset. Again, there are exceptions, but if they are there no action is taken by the writers to tarnish their character. Take FFXII for instance, would a person fanatically devoted to honor not do morally questionable actions? Why not explore that in detail? Does a hero always have to be selfless? People are more complex than
that.
3) JRPGs are more cinematic: This is true, especially in the past. Keep in mind that production values are mostly limited by the revenues of the company. RPGs are still big in Japan, and typically most of the big companies like Square have a lot of resources to work with. . Cutscenes alone, don't make a game however. Baldur's Gate proved that. Now that WRPGs are rising in popularity, their production values have increased as well.
1) JRPGs have better stories.
- Depends on what you mean by better stories. Sure, they have better stories when comparing to WRPGs that aren't centered around the story (WOW, Morrowind, etc.) but exploration. If we were to compare the top tier games of both genres, Baldur's Gate, Planescape etc. vs Persona, FF series, I would say that Western RPGs have better stories. The vast majority of WRPGs have subpar stories, but so do the vast majority of JRPGs. You really have to be selective when forming your argument.
2) JRPGs have better characters
Better designed characters or better character development? In terms of artistic design of characters, I'll give JRPGs the edge on that one. But what about personality of developement of the characters themselves? (important to most people when reading the story) Planescape had some of the deepest characters I've seen in video games. Same goes to some of the characters in KOTOR or Baldur's Gate. The last four JRPGs I've played for instance have characters that boil down to the same 5 anime archetypes: the depressed main character looking for purpose (usually male), the quiet yet confident warrior (male or female, who most of the time is guilt-ridden), the mentor (who can also fight, go figure) the overly peppy optimist (which annoys the crap out of me), and the innocent and naive female. I don't think a single character in FFVIII or X didn't fit this archetype, which is probably why I never finished XII. Granted, I am looking forward to 13 (keeping my hopes up), because I don't want to give up on a series b/c 7 was so good.
WRPGs such as Kotor aren’t afraid to put morally ambiguous characters as their protagonists, or even sociopaths. It seems that everyone in a JRPG has a heart of gold and the closest they come to being an
anti-hero is being a little depressed and brooding. It is a
play-it-safe mindset. Again, there are exceptions, but if they are there no action is taken by the writers to tarnish their character. Take FFXII for instance, would a person fanatically devoted to honor not do morally questionable actions? Why not explore that in detail? Does a hero always have to be selfless? People are more complex than
that.
3) JRPGs are more cinematic: This is true, especially in the past. Keep in mind that production values are mostly limited by the revenues of the company. RPGs are still big in Japan, and typically most of the big companies like Square have a lot of resources to work with. . Cutscenes alone, don't make a game however. Baldur's Gate proved that. Now that WRPGs are rising in popularity, their production values have increased as well.
Modifié par jtd00123, 01 février 2010 - 06:30 .
#136
Posté 01 février 2010 - 08:45
Chris H. Fleming
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melkathi wrote...
Spuro wrote...
Games like DA:O could do more with ambience sounds and music that makes certain JRPGs memorable in the emotional sense. For example, Denerim does not sound or feel like a capital city at.all.
But that has been bioware's problem in their newer games. When they moved away from the iso view, or what they had in BG, maps by necessity became smaller and much of the feeling of truly being in a big city was lost. And sadly there is not enough ambience to make up for the small empty areas.
Funny I was just thinking about how ME2 did such a great job of faking the existence of a larger world with some very tightly confined maps.
I swear it's like they took a trip to Disney world and Universal Studios and then copied what they do on rides like E.T. and King Kong. They got the ambient sounds, backdrops, props, ... everything down to a pat. DA:O lacked any sense of that, but hopefully those artistic lessons will carry into the future for Bioware games in general.
