196 réponses à ce sujet

[_sigge_]

I'd like to use the Saber more, mainly for the godly sound it makes when I pull the trigger, but it's too heavy and too slow. Give it a bump and it'd be a great Harrier substitute for when you'd rather make every bullet count.

[megabeast37215]

_sigge_ wrote...

I'd like to use the Saber more, mainly for the godly sound it makes when I pull the trigger, but it's too heavy and too slow. Give it a bump and it'd be a great Harrier substitute for when you'd rather make every bullet count.

It already is. The Saber is fine... and is not too heavy at higher levels. You do realize that 80-120% cooldown rate is fine on most classes right? My Saber X is around 115% on my Geth Engineer... and I never wish I had 'MOAR OVERLOAD!" because all the enemies don't have heads.

[nicethugbert]

megabeast37215 wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

JustAnotherVanguard wrote...
What was missing for a long time was a Rare Gold viable Assault Rifle. It exists now in form of the Collector Rifle. But that weapon still needs a buff in form of a weight decrease and damage increase.

This. All the Rare assault rifles suck, but all the rare shotguns except the Disciple are among the best weapons in the game. Why Bioware why?

The Shotguns have stopping power.

...and range in the case of the Claymore... and massive utility in the case of the Reegar, neither of which sacrifice stopping power. Piranha weighs nothing and has a ton of DPS... why can't AR's have DPS?  Every race in the Galaxy and not one of them can make a rare assault rifle worth crap.

Claymore as a ranged weapon is mostly suck, it gets better with smart choke, hunter mode, etc.  But, defualt Claymore has bad range,  Other than that, I agree with you.  ARs should not suck.  ARs have the range advantage over shotguns and yet they are underwhelimng.  The reason for that is as I explain in my post above.  Enemies have amazing stun, stagger, and dodge abilities, and other cheap cheese.  The only way to put a stop to that BS is to put a stop to that BS, with a high stopping power weapon or power.

The advantage that most ARs have over shutguns, i.e., range and accuracy, is actually a death sentence in this game because of the insane stun, stagger, dodge, and accuracy of the enemies if that AR does not have very high burst DPS.  Without very high burst DPS or stopping power, you spend to much time exposed to enemy stun, stagger, and accurate fire from all the way across the other end of the map.  

That is why weapons like Avenger, GPR, Phaseton, Vindicator, Collector Rifle, etc. will always be garbage.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 04 novembre 2012 - 01:57 .

[megabeast37215]

nicethugbert wrote...

Claymore as a ranged weapon is mostly suck, it gets better with smart choke, hunter mode, etc.  But, defualt Claymore has bad range,  Other than that, I agree with you.  ARs should not suck.  ARs have the range advantage over shotguns and yet they are underwhelimng.  The reason for that is as I explain in my post above.  Enemies have amazing stun, stagger, and dodge abilities, and other cheap cheese.  The only way to put a stop to that BS is to put a stop to that BS, with a high stopping power weapon or power.

The advantage that most ARs have over shutguns, i.e., range and accuracy is actually a death sentence in this game because of the insane stun, stagger, dodge, and accuracy of the enemies if that AR does not have  very high DPS.  Without very high DPS or stopping power, you spend to much time exposed to enemy stun, stagger, and accuracte fire from all the way across the other side of the map.  

No smart choke on the Claymore = no smart. It's the Claymore sniper rifle otherwise...

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post.

I wanna know this: The Geth Pulse Rifle is carried by the basic Geth foot soldier... their most numerous unit. How does that make it Rare?

I really want to take the ME3 MP team to a shooting range. They seem completely out of touch with how full auto, rifle caliber weapons should perform... with the exception of the Harrier. For a gun like the Typhoon to do such little damage per bullet... is a crying shame (even though the Typhoon is decent... have you ever seen the damage a LMG can do?).

[nicethugbert]

megabeast37215 wrote...
I wanna know this: The Geth Pulse Rifle is carried by the basic Geth foot soldier... their most numerous unit. How does that make it Rare?

The Geth are stingy?

megabeast37215 wrote...
I really want to take the ME3 MP team to a shooting range. They seem completely out of touch with how full auto, rifle caliber weapons should perform... with the exception of the Harrier. For a gun like the Typhoon to do such little damage per bullet... is a crying shame (even though the Typhoon is decent... have you ever seen the damage a LMG can do?).

I don't own or operate any RL fire arms yet I figured things out for myself via observation of the game mechanics, war movies, and random youtube explorations.  So, I'm not sure taking The Devs to a firing range will help.  Maybe post some youtube clips in support of your POV?  Even then, EA clearly wants us to be monkeys on their tread mill in their skinner box so I'm not sure you can get through to The Devs directly.  All you can do is convince BSN to **** a brick in support of better weapons and less BS game mechanics.

Incidentally, about LMG damage, a retired Florida State Trooper told me a story.  One day a drugged out looney holed up in his house with a mountain of bullets and fire arms and drugs.  After many hours of the looney's  shooting BS and one of them getting shot they called in the 50 cal.  The cops took the house apart with that thing in short order.  The looney died somewhere along the process.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 04 novembre 2012 - 02:12 .

[N7Kopper]

megabeast37215 wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Claymore as a ranged weapon is mostly suck, it gets better with smart choke, hunter mode, etc.  But, defualt Claymore has bad range,  Other than that, I agree with you.  ARs should not suck.  ARs have the range advantage over shotguns and yet they are underwhelimng.  The reason for that is as I explain in my post above.  Enemies have amazing stun, stagger, and dodge abilities, and other cheap cheese.  The only way to put a stop to that BS is to put a stop to that BS, with a high stopping power weapon or power.

The advantage that most ARs have over shutguns, i.e., range and accuracy is actually a death sentence in this game because of the insane stun, stagger, dodge, and accuracy of the enemies if that AR does not have  very high DPS.  Without very high DPS or stopping power, you spend to much time exposed to enemy stun, stagger, and accuracte fire from all the way across the other side of the map.

No smart choke on the Claymore = no smart. It's the Claymore sniper rifle otherwise...

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post.

I wanna know this: The Geth Pulse Rifle is carried by the basic Geth foot soldier... their most numerous unit. How does that make it Rare?

I really want to take the ME3 MP team to a shooting range. They seem completely out of touch with how full auto, rifle caliber weapons should perform... with the exception of the Harrier. For a gun like the Typhoon to do such little damage per bullet... is a crying shame (even though the Typhoon is decent... have you ever seen the damage a LMG can do?).

tl;dr: yes, rifles are underpowered, no, we have the stagger advantage, enemy just has numbers, stop thinking about real world guns and start thinking about RPG logic, Harrier, Mattock, Typhoon, and PPR are used because they're genuinely the best choice for some builds, other assault rifles seem to be balanced around Normal/Bronze sometimes

Two counterpoints: Number one:
The enemy does not have the advantage in stagger and stun per-head. The players do, by a mile. The enemy has the numbers advantage, and some geth units are good at staggering. We players have characters that can resist stagger, we have no "hit react chance" like the enemy does, nor do we automatically stagger when we hit shield gate. We also cannot ragdoll with any more than 0 total HP. (Not to mention, the enemy get no invincibility frames protecting them from our shotguns, and their shield gates are incomplete)
I will concede on the dodging front - provided you're lagging. On host, or with a low latency host, rolling, dashing, or sometimes even sidestepping past enemy projectiles and around enemy melee is cake, provided you're not a krogan or in Devastator Mode.

Yes, dodging is sometimes impossible off-host. I know this personally. But sometimes it's not. This is something you blame Epic Games and Unreal Engine 3's bad netcode for.


Point two:
Oh, and on the subject of real-world rifles? The real world doesn't have kinetic barriers or space age armour and building materials. The real world has bulletproof armour that can barely stop people dying - they'll still need hospital care. The real world also isn't an RPG. In the real world, when you shoot someone, a bullet rips through tissue, vital organs, sometimes bone - in Mass Effect, if a round thunks into someone's unarmoured thigh, they lose a certain amount of health depending on the weapon used. Armour provides no bonus unless the stats say it does - no MP armour helps you live shots, and most SP armour improves offense, not defence. (Tech armour is a power, not equippable armour in the normal sense of the word) Same for if the round pierces their heart and hits their friend who's behind them. No bonus damage. It's how the RPGverse of ME works - deviating from that would break this little thing I call "immersion". Only headshots do more damage, and even then it's usually only 250% bonus, which can be very flimsy if your weapon is already weak, or kill almost anything if it's strong.

Yes, assault rifles in ME3 are often too weak. The Harrier and Mattock are the exceptions in that they're all-round jacks of all trades as videogame ARs should be. The Mattock needs an awesome trigger finger, the Harrier is full-auto. The Typhoon is a quintessential RPG balanced LMG - nerfed for being too good on the Destroyer when it was designed for the turian Soldier (yes, I have a Typhoon I use on my Destroyer, and I can say those nerfs were necessary, as was the buff to the Hawks) an absolute bullet hose, but somewhat underwhelming compared to what other shooters and real life would have you expect. The PPR is a laser beam. Not an assault rifle - it's just equipped in the AR slot and uses AR stuff.

If anyone has any ideas on how to make ARs useful without making them overpowered, go ahead. (No "no nerfducks" need apply)

...whew, wordy.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 04 novembre 2012 - 02:41 .

[_sigge_]

megabeast37215 wrote...

_sigge_ wrote...

I'd like to use the Saber more, mainly for the godly sound it makes when I pull the trigger, but it's too heavy and too slow. Give it a bump and it'd be a great Harrier substitute for when you'd rather make every bullet count.

It already is. The Saber is fine... and is not too heavy at higher levels. You do realize that 80-120% cooldown rate is fine on most classes right? My Saber X is around 115% on my Geth Engineer... and I never wish I had 'MOAR OVERLOAD!" because all the enemies don't have heads.

Well, there's a reason I rather use the Harrier. I'm glad you're happy with the Saber though.

[neteng101]

megabeast37215 wrote...

I really want to take the ME3 MP team to a shooting range. They seem completely out of touch with how full auto, rifle caliber weapons should perform... with the exception of the Harrier.

Its their terrible obsession/fetish with gimpiness/balance that doesn't help one bit.  Having good weapons to choose from does not make the game boring in the least bit...  it actually adds to the fun of killing/ripping things up!

Bioware MP balance team is totally in the anti-fun contingent/camp.  So are most of the balance nerds on BSN.

[Arppis]

This game needs more guns that feel as good as Harrier does.

[Bleachrude]

neteng101 wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

I really want to take the ME3 MP team to a shooting range. They seem completely out of touch with how full auto, rifle caliber weapons should perform... with the exception of the Harrier.

Its their terrible obsession/fetish with gimpiness/balance that doesn't help one bit.  Having good weapons to choose from does not make the game boring in the least bit...  it actually adds to the fun of killing/ripping things up!

Bioware MP balance team is totally in the anti-fun contingent/camp.  So are most of the balance nerds on BSN.

Really..

So how exactly would you balance this with the fact that ME, tech and biotic abilities are supposed to be as good a choice as clicking?

Sure, if the game was actually a clone of a regular shooter, then you can just focus on the weapons but this is ME where the powers are supposed to be JUST as good if not better in some ways than weapons...

[Rodrrigoww]

Yeah but that's because the other ARs suck monkey balls , now there's the typhoon and the partcile which are decent but not as reliable , needing sustained fire and what not , mind you that before the harrier release AR was a weapon class I completely ignored , so Bioware should really take a look into that and buff some of them , like the collector rifle which should be better and has potential , valkyrie , de-nerf the typhoon.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Funnily, I do not tend to use the Harrier that much. I prefer the Saber. Feels more solid and has a badass noise. I know it's weird but I am like that . I even prefer Piranha to the Reegar...

Collector AR is a better version of Phaeston, Revenant. But yes they should buff the old ARs.

[Bleachrude]

Again, what exactly are you comparing the weapons to? Especially given that this is a universe which has Kinetic barriers?

[koschwarz74]

I have it lvl VI. I almost never use it. When i use it i regret it and i switch it immediately for the next game. Reason: i always hated to run to ammo boxes which is escalating with the harrier.
I prefer saber, argus, revenant, falcon.

[billpickles]

I just finally unlocked it last night! Can't wait to give it a go. It was my last UR to unlock.

I sincerely hope it doesn't get gimped, as almost everything else in the AR category is horrible. Seriously, there are easily 6 or 7 shotguns usable on Gold, maybe more, whereas only maybe 3 ARs are decent choices.

[Fang92]

N7Kopper wrote...

Oh, and on the subject of real-world rifles? The real world doesn't have kinetic barriers or space age armour and building materials. 

ITP: Arms race and escalation dont exist.

The real world also doesnt have guns that fire at relativistic velocities. If an armor is invented, a bullet will be invented to break it. 

[nicethugbert]

N7Kopper wrote...
tl;dr: yes, rifles are underpowered, no, we have the stagger advantage, enemy just has numbers, stop thinking about real world guns and start thinking about RPG logic, Harrier, Mattock, Typhoon, and PPR are used because they're genuinely the best choice for some builds, other assault rifles seem to be balanced around Normal/Bronze sometimes

Two counterpoints: Number one:
The enemy does not have the advantage in stagger and stun per-head. The players do, by a mile. The enemy has the numbers advantage, and some geth units are good at staggering. We players have characters that can resist stagger, we have no "hit react chance" like the enemy does, nor do we automatically stagger when we hit shield gate. We also cannot ragdoll with any more than 0 total HP. (Not to mention, the enemy get no invincibility frames protecting them from our shotguns, and their shield gates are incomplete)
I will concede on the dodging front - provided you're lagging. On host, or with a low latency host, rolling, dashing, or sometimes even sidestepping past enemy projectiles and around enemy melee is cake, provided you're not a krogan or in Devastator Mode.

Yes, dodging is sometimes impossible off-host. I know this personally. But sometimes it's not. This is something you blame Epic Games and Unreal Engine 3's bad netcode for.

The enemy does have the stun/stagger advantage per head.  Reload and Melee, as well as other, animations are difficult to interupt if not uninteruptable on enemies.  You can't stunlock the enemy.  Not so on players no matter how tanky they are.  Players stager even with their shields on full.  Mutiply that by the enemy's numbers advantage and it's no wonder this game is all about corner shooting with so-called OP/Over-used weapons.  Even the best powers in this game are the ones that support corner shooting with the so-called OP/Over-used weapons.  People will naturally use the weapons with the best stopping power because you want to stop the enemy, of course.  Sadly, that does not include the majority of ARs because most of them have little if any stun/stagger or burst DPS.  The accuracy and range advantage of ARs is nullified by enemy accuracy and stopping power and numbers.  Without stopping power, a weapon is absolutely worthless to a player faced with overwhelming firepower and defenses.

Enemy dodge is total cheap'n'cheesy.  You can see them dodging your cross hairs even when they are behind a solid wall if you are using infrared scope, hunter mode, tac scan, or recon mine, let alone in plain sight where they run circles around your cross hairs, even when their backs are turned to you!

N7Kopper wrote...
Point two:
Oh, and on the subject of real-world rifles? The real world doesn't have kinetic barriers or space age armour and building materials. The real world has bulletproof armour that can barely stop people dying - they'll still need hospital care. The real world also isn't an RPG. In the real world, when you shoot someone, a bullet rips through tissue, vital organs, sometimes bone - in Mass Effect, if a round thunks into someone's unarmoured thigh, they lose a certain amount of health depending on the weapon used. Armour provides no bonus unless the stats say it does - no MP armour helps you live shots, and most SP armour improves offense, not defence. (Tech armour is a power, not equippable armour in the normal sense of the word) Same for if the round pierces their heart and hits their friend who's behind them. No bonus damage. It's how the RPGverse of ME works - deviating from that would break this little thing I call "immersion". Only headshots do more damage, and even then it's usually only 250% bonus, which can be very flimsy if your weapon is already weak, or kill almost anything if it's strong.

Yes, assault rifles in ME3 are often too weak. The Harrier and Mattock are the exceptions in that they're all-round jacks of all trades as videogame ARs should be. The Mattock needs an awesome trigger finger, the Harrier is full-auto. The Typhoon is a quintessential RPG balanced LMG - nerfed for being too good on the Destroyer when it was designed for the turian Soldier (yes, I have a Typhoon I use on my Destroyer, and I can say those nerfs were necessary, as was the buff to the Hawks) an absolute bullet hose, but somewhat underwhelming compared to what other shooters and real life would have you expect. The PPR is a laser beam. Not an assault rifle - it's just equipped in the AR slot and uses AR stuff.

If anyone has any ideas on how to make ARs useful without making them overpowered, go ahead. (No "no nerfducks" need apply)

...whew, wordy.

Your point about real rifles is irrelevant to what actually works and what fails.  Nothing beats stopping power, nothing, not in the real world, not in a game world, and most ARs in ME3 MP don't have much if any stopping power either in the form of stun/stagger or deadly high burst DPS.  But the ones that do are the ones people want to nerf.  It seems that one-shot sniper rifles are the only weapons nerfers like.  Go figure.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 04 novembre 2012 - 04:29 .

[ValorOfArms777]

It's OU but thats mainly cause first off it's a beast but thats to be expected from it the draw back is the ammo spare and in all honesty the mattock has the exact same dmg ratio per bullet so most don't consider the singel shot properties and the fact the guns jsut a revamp more asstetic Mattock

most don't know that the UR quality is nto really a "STEP" abouve gold weapons but just a diversity of weapons a slight more potent at time and useful in very unique ways this gun gives up a drastic ammo spare to unleash a good quanity of "Mattock" power bullets of the (insert) level at reasonable pace the Harrier only truely shines through around lvl 4 when it's DPS starts to out match the oringal Mattock due to the auto fire feature but the constant reloading might be more than ppl bargan for if not prepared it's a mroe balanced gun than most will seem to figure out

[OuterRim]

Once there are more Valykries out there we will see less of the Harrier. They are the only 2 decent SR's in the game IMO. The Revenant is good on Turians, but not on other kits. The Mattock is good too, but most are too lazy to use it. lol

[neteng101]

Bleachrude wrote...

Sure, if the game was actually a clone of a regular shooter, then you can just focus on the weapons but this is ME where the powers are supposed to be JUST as good if not better in some ways than weapons...

Uhh...  yes, unfortunately they nerf the powers too.

[neteng101]

OuterRim wrote...

Once there are more Valykries out there we will see less of the Harrier.

Don't have a Valkyrie yet but its on paper stats are terribly sup-par even at X compared to a Harrier?  Plus its burst fire meaning trigger finger-itis.  The Valkyrie is also outdone by the Mattock!

The only weapons that are auto-fire DPS bruisers that keep up to the Harrier are the Hurricane, PPR, Piranha and Reegar.

[fiendishchicken]

No.

It's a damn good gun. That's why everyone uses it.

I use the Acolyte with a Vorcha. Max out Flamer (armor damage) and Health Regeneration and fighting Reapers on gold is rather easy.

Not too easy, but it's an effective strategy.