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[THEE_DEATHMASTER]

Just wanted to give my thanks to MrFob and the rest who worked on this. You've made this game worth replaying for me.

[ZLurps]

MrFob wrote...

About the intelligence: Well, speculation for EVERYONE!!!

No seriously, I haven't played Leviathan yet. The mod was made without taking any info from there into account. As far as the prothean VI goes, it's been a while since i listened to the dialogue but as far as I remember, it was possible to interpret it in such a way that the catalyst does not have to be an intelligence but might really just be a catalyst in the more technical sense. I.e. the crucible needs systems on board the citadel to be activated to full effect.
That was my original take on it, however, when I am through Leviathan, I may know more.

Personally, I absolutely hate the idea that the reapers are guided by one intelligence. It diminishes every single one of them. Also, it sort of diminishes Sovereigns dialogue in ME1: "We are each a nation, independent, free of all weakness". That would have been a blatant lie.

All in all, I am quite happy with keeping the reaper's motives and their organisational structure vague in this scenario. A>fter all, they are living on a "level of existence you cannot fathom". I get that. I know I have trouble wrapping my head around the concept of living for a billion years or more.
That said, together with frypan, we have some plans to go a little bit into the nature of what's happening in the end in future versions. However, I think it will be un-intrusive enough not to interfere with anyone's headcannon about the whole thing.

There is something that I think may be important for you to know at this point.

I and Dr Extrem have been exchanging about how to create background for Reapers via PM's for sometime now. We are aiming to create new Reaper theory that would unfold to player while playing the game. That's why ability to insert text and have a mechanism to trigger it to player is important.

To make this work to begin with I thought we could use unused datapads and computer terminals that are in game. There are locations which would make sense to contain information of Reapers, there is unused datapad near the other elevator door in Sur Kesh base in a room where players need Mordin (or his replacement) for example. This way, using what there is already in game we would only need to create triggers and content that appears to player, we wouldn't need even to create/recycle new graphical assets in game.


Then how the background would unfold to players:
Player would find background information piece by piece. With more modding we could perhaps even create new Codex entry that would update every time player finds a need piece of information from dapapads and/or terminals final piece appearing perhaps on Cronos station.

Basic idea is that everyone would have a piece of information that alone wouldn't be useful. We could use Salarians, Geth and Cerberus being most important source of information. Salarians have every reason to study indoctrination after their STG was involved in the events of Virmire in ME1. Geth would have a reason because first question to ask from their point of view would be if Reaper allies can deliver what they promise. Cerberus then, they have studied Reapers to control them.

The important factor here is that none of these parties have any reason to share their knowledge with each other, so scenario where information is there, but is too scattered to form anything to be useful in actual Reaper war would make sense. Also, there's no need to create background to their research programs because it's already in games. We could start datapad contents like "Lak O'Vits reseach notes regarding STG incident on Virmire: Further studies of indoctrination". I wouldn't really use that name on scientist though.


Forming a new Reaper theory:

I have collected information from games and ME novels written by Karpyshyn and also from former ME writer Chris L'Etoile's posts about his and teams original vision during development of ME2. They offer pretty much to work with, that Reaper nanides are intelligent and even able to have emotions comes from ME: Retribution for example and that during developing ME2 Reapers weren't hybrids but full tech and organic essence was copied to artificial form via destructive method according to L'Etoile's helps a lot too.

However there is quite a bit of fiction that needs to be created to form a theory that works in game and achieves the goal of replacing start child. Ideal outcome would be that players simply don't feel there is any sort of need for Catalyst AI (Star child) to appear because everything needed for their complete ME experience would already be there.

That nanides, or at least clusters of nanides are intelligent solves the problem with Catalyst AI in a very simple way. As it appears that Catalyst creations in past lore were more capable than Catalyst, Catalyst we don't need to worry about getting rid of Catalyst at all. IMO it shouldn't been in a game in a way it did to begin with.

However, we need to create something else that is consistent with previous lore and something that is plausible. Task is not without problems. Let me explain via example from something I and Dr Extrem haven't reached consensus yet, mainly because I'm still having that awful flu and (even though I'm getting better) haven't messaged him about details behind my thoughts.

So we are debating about if we should set limitations to nanides. I think it would be very important, Dr. Extrem disagrees. My motive for limiting how autonomous nanides are comes from the time I was doing my military service back in the day (before anyone jumps in to hasty conclusions, service is mandatory where I live, our system is quite similar to Israels). I'm the Cold War era kid and of course knew of what nukes could do, but during my service we were taught about all kind of warfare there is and chem and bio stuff really made nukes look much less scary, simple because there is much worse stuff exists. I'v read super nations have even means to tailor those to target certain groups based on genetics. So I applied that to Reaper lore and result was that autonomous nanides would lead to scenarios where:
a) Reaper ships would be obsolete but for backup purposes
There wouldn't be any plausible way to win against Reapers

Those things caused my to drop my former pet theory about nanides being the Reapers. I don't like idea about some sort of central AI either but network brain, that Reapers form when they are active (not hibernating) and network activating nanides to their full potential when Reapers are awakened get closer to galaxy. Derelict Reaper is bit problematic regarding that though, so I have been toying with idea about each Reaper having certain native Reaper creator and when this creator is destroyed nanides it created fall of from network, they work but are in passive mode, unable to form connection into Dark Space and create agents, just simple husks.

That could explain following things:

1) Why Reaper tech Shep encounters doesn't create agents but Husks, yet Dr. Kenson and Rana Thanoptis for example are turned to agents. Kenson's case could be explained that Reaper that created the object they discovered would still be alive and oversee the operation. Rana Thanoptis case would be that while studying many Reaper artifacts she happened to study also one that belonged to Reaper that was still alive and when that Reaper entered in galaxy, whoops...

2) Why Grayson (in the novel ME: Retribution) didn't became husk but very advanced agent his physical abilities enhanced with artificial implants and were also given biotic abilities and in the end was also used as communication link into dark space. Because nanides that were injected to him came from the Collector base and who was over seeing the Collector base? Harbinger that most definitely is alive and kicking in ME3. Could be any Reaper that is alive, but using Harby would fit the dramatic part in story too, besides IMO it would make sense that Harby engineered the Collectors, since their are Harby's proxy.

3) If nanides had their "parent" Reaper there wouldn't be contradiction with what Sovereign says in ME1: "We are each a nation".

4) Active and passive modes for nanides would prevent natural evolution of life forming countermeasures against them.
Example: Many cycles ago piece of Reaper tech got buried deep into the ground on some planet because inhabitants of planet turned out to be actual threat to Reaper. Reapers considered said planet as acceptable losses and used their mass accelerators for orbital bombing.

Millions of years later there earthquake unearths this piece of Reaper tech. It contains active nanides. There are plants growing all over the place and plants detect something new in their environment. Another millions of years of battle plants make use of nanides, some plants are able to carry nanides from their roots to their leaves and help them in photosynthesis. Nanides can't do anything, there's no mind to indoctrinate and few nanides aren't even programmed to replicate in such situation. Over million of more years plants develop total immunity to indoctrination.

Time keeps passing and plants develop intelligence, awareness, technology, They ponder their origins make a huge discovery. Even when they would just discover space flight they would already be powerful against the Reapers, when they discover the mass relays and the Citadel and Reaper start their invasion

Reapers discover that they are screwed because all the time they spent hibernating between the cycles, plants were not only naturally immune to indoctrination, have gathered understanding of Reaper technology since they started to study their own evolution. They get beaten the crap out of them with technology that, even though based on their theirs, is evolved further.

So Reapers have a very good reason not to leave fully functional Reaper tech behind them. I really get to think of this because of my flu, viruses getting nastier because they adapt to antibiotics, but then, think of Thorian from ME1. (actually we could use Thorian to introduce this idea to player, just that thorian adapted even it only happened to encounter dormant Reaper tech).


There is a problem with Sovereign, Geth and the Dragons teeth but I think that could be explained via Sovereign not wanting to give Geth fully functioning nanide tech to Geth. It would IMO make much more sense to not giving Geth anything fully functional they could really reverse engineer and use against Reapers when it would be time for Reapers to get rid of Geth.

Another problem is that nanides appear to be able to "die". Vigil explains in ME1 how indoctrinated who got left behind just starved to death after Reapers left. I think way around this would be that when in organic host, nanides start to dissolve as soon as their host dies. Otherwise there would be tons of nanides scattered around after so many cycles. They could however exist in Reaper tech, like Leviathan of Dis which was still able to indoctrinate Batarian science team, even it was almost billion years old.



Reaper background

We can very well create additional background information to Reapers without destroying how intimidating they are. In fact most of the things needed are already in games and novels. The problem is find plausible real life theories and conveying information to player.

Let's just take "We have no beginning, we have no end." for now.

I guess we really like to think that we understand big numbers even we don't. www.education.com/science-fair/article/humans-understand-values-greater-three/

Say, biggest number we can think of is Graham's Number.

However, I don't think it's likely that Reapers would think like Gates
"...I felt like I was providing enough freedom for 10 years. That is, a move from 64k to 640k felt like something that would last a great deal of time..." 

So Grahams Number should not be the end of it and so I think we could introduce theory of infinity to players in fun and practical way by using Koch snowflake


Now what to do with all this with ME universe?

One thing that could be used is that Reapers are prepared to gain numbers to infinity and still manage to cycles, they are also able to adapt in different situations. I think intelligence that manages that equals something that can play several chess games with every particle in the whole universe simultaneously. I can think of it, I can write about it, but really understand in any practical sense? no, that would require something else.

Other telling aspect of Reapers is how they manage Collectors. Harbinger was able to oversee, share what each individual Collector experienced and assume control of any drone in real time.

Now let's think about this a little. What Harby was doing was something entirely different than what operating military unit is for us. How many Collectors are there? There were at least two ships and those on the Collector base. I say few thousands perhaps, because we kill so many, yet Collectors can continue their operations.

Now, imagine sharing everything 1000 people experiences simultaneously. What they see, what they hear, taste, smell, feel on their skin. Imagine that you can take any of them to make them even more of extension of yourself. IMO we are dealing with something really outlandish and disturbing and while I can imagine rough abstraction of it, write about it, that's something way beyond human brain can comprehend in any practical sense.

"I am beyond your comprehension. I am Sovereign" Indeed.

I think we could use Dunbar's number to convey this to players.



I have some other ideas, say just for gigles we could try to close dark energy plot line from ME2. Not in a way Drew intended but just make it appear that Reapers started some sort of experiment with Haelstrom's Sun during last cycle.

This could be implemented via player getting email from someone from Quarian fleet thanking you for helping Tali back in the events of ME2 and sharing results (which doesn't make any sense to Quarians) with you as gesture of good will. That opportunity could be used also to deliver piece of Reaper lore "puzzle" because, there isn't other locations but Geth Dreadnought mission to deliver information during whole Rannoch arch. That said, I don't even know if in-game email system can be used to update Codex.


Anyway, when this mod started to progress I guessed that at some point people are going to want something more and that's why I and Dr. Extrem started working with this. What you do is the best hope for countless of fans out there and very important to keep ME modding scene alive, which eventually may lead to fan patches regarding bugs in game and other enchantments.

So we wanted to create this optional "lore" mod that could accompany your mod and you could keep focusing to MEHEM. I would like you to review our mod when we get something more concrete put together. It would be very important because of technical questions alone.

That said, this lore mod will need more hands on deck. We need someone who speaks American English as native to proofread, someone who can polish the edges and make understanding our ideas accessible, of course someone who could actually script this stuff in game would be a huge help too. Then... I don't know, I work like in bursts. I spin things around in my head, read stuff, try to figure out which works which doesn't. In this post I have something that I think could work, then I haven't got anything out of mind machine interface theories so far for example, even though I thought that would be easy. Anyway, I have a feeling that working with me can be bit exhausting at times.

This really got inspired by your mod and that you get rid of star child, which IMO looks like work from sociologist trying to be physicist or vice versa. Then, this left opportunity to put some real science back in ME3. I hope examples I posted make it clear that it can be done and something I really much liked to do is also offer those "Whoa! that actually works!" moments for people whom ME series most likely is much bigger adventure than it is for us, I mean 12-15 years old or so.

What comes to developing this "lore mod to accompany MEHEM" I don't think this thread is the ideal place to discuss about it. I will gladly answer if you have questions, but IMO, ongoing development discussion should happen somewhere else.

EDIT:

I forgot, Reaper motives. It's work in progress. I have piece of text but I don't know if it's really from L'Etoile but from someone else. It's not half bad though, but I liked to keep thinking about it for a while.

Modifié par ZLurps, 18 mars 2013 - 03:53 .

[kmetek]

many thanks for this.

[Robhuzz]

Just watched the trailer for this. First time I saw the trailer and even that was absolutely beautiful. Great work MrFob - and everyone else who worked on this mod.

I may have to give ME3 another chance after all, if only to see MEHEM in game.

[cfs3corsair]

Wow I get on for the first time in days and wow there is so much stuff going on!
@MrFob
I like the idea of giving a little more background with the reapers like you said. I also agree that this can be a slippery slope though because at this point many people would have a personal head canon about this. But I suspect that if anyone can pull this off you can. Good luck can't wait to see what you come up with!
As for that extraction image troxa put up... Hmm you hint at interesting changes for v0.4. Must say you have piqued my curiosity
Lastly about Javik... Glad you have ideas for him; I know that many people would have liked to see some stuff regarding him. IMO, IHJ does have an interesting idea as far as interesting storytelling goes. But it wouldn't work for me personally, I kinda really don't want to see any more crew members die on me, have had enough of them do that as it is.
Can't listen to your interview on an iPad sadly will listen to it later, bet you did well though

@Zlurps: 
Hmmm lore idea. If you guys actually get general support for it and find someone who can code, could be quite interesting. After you refine the idea and all that I could proof read it if you still require it; I am not American (I am Canadian) but frankly Canadian written English and American written English are practically identical. 

@wavion and wwinters99 
Like your banners. Hope you don't mind if I end up using them later 

Modifié par cfs3corsair, 18 mars 2013 - 08:37 .

[Ironhandjustice]

cfs3corsair wrote...

Wow I get on for the first time in days and wow there is so much stuff going on!
@MrFob
I like the idea of giving a little more background with the reapers like you said. I also agree that this can be a slippery slope though because at this point many people would have a personal head canon about this. But I suspect that if anyone can pull this off you can. Good luck can't wait to see what you come up with!
As for that extraction image troxa put up... Hmm you hint at interesting changes for v0.4. Must say you have piqued my curiosity
Lastly about Javik... Glad you have ideas for him; I know that many people would have liked to see some stuff regarding him. IMO, IHJ does have an interesting idea as far as interesting storytelling goes. But it wouldn't work for me personally, I kinda really don't want to see any more crew members die on me, have had enough of them do that as it is.
Can't listen to your interview on an iPad sadly will listen to it later, bet you did well though

@Zlurps: 
Hmmm lore idea. If you guys actually get general support for it and find someone who can code, could be quite interesting. After you refine the idea and all that I could proof read it if you still require it; I am not American (I am Canadian) but frankly Canadian written English and American written English are practically identical. 

@wavion and wwinters99 
Like your banners. Hope you don't mind if I end up using them later 

Well, I suggest this post ending on mid-ems.  The wavion one for harby can be the high ems.

If you get perfect ending, perfect is perfect

[CommanderVyse]

ZLurps wrote...
*snip

Quite the theory you have going. I'm interested from a technical standpoint to see if you can implement it in game.

Personally, the only thing I ever needed to know about the Reapers was how to kill them. Any inconsistencies possibly created by MEHEM are small and do not lessen my enjoyment.

We can safely say that Bioware's own storytelling has had inconsistencies over the years. (I'm looking at you, Thermal clips on 2175 Aeia)

Modifié par wwinters99, 18 mars 2013 - 10:06 .

[ZLurps]

@cfs3corsair & wwinters99

I checked coding part from Mr. Fob week or so ago and basic stuff like adding content to datapads and computer terminals and making them interactive should be possible. Adding text to game has been possible for quite a while via ME3 Translation tool and Mr. Fob discovered way to trigger these to player a while a go (see Sequence modding topic on ME3explorer forums).

Email modding is possible too but I don't know if all conditionals to make it timed are know. The big questions on technical side are if writing to TLK file can be scripted. It would be nice if we could have just small script that updated TLK file instead of players needing to download the whole TLK file. Other question is if we can use datapads, computer terminals and in-game emails to create and update in-game codex entry.

Appreciate help on proofreading side.

/bed

[MrFob]

@ZLurps It's a fascinating theory and you obviously spent quite some time figuring all of this out.However, I think this is far beyond the scope of MEHEM. The intention behind this mod was always to be simplistic, to add as little self created background as possible so that it's applicable to the greatest number of people who want to use it. This goes for the reapers, this goes for the LIs, this goes for Shepard's future after MEHEM. As I said, frypan and I (well, mostly him actually) are already working on some textual additions to make things fit together but even there, we try and keep actual new lore content to a minimum.
Now, that's not to say, your theory should just remain headcannon forever but I think it should be a mod on it's own that can very well work with MEHEM for the people who like the idea.
On the technical side, adding texts should be no problem. Adding triggers, e.g. for datapads and such is a bit more tricky but as long as you do it in the main game, not a DLC, it should be doable.
I haven't checked into codex entries at all but given that we know how to insert emails and assuming that the codex uses a very similar system, that should be possible as well.
Changing the whole BioGame_INT.tlk for this is not a problem. MEHEM already does that anyway.

[AVPen]

Regarding Harbinger and the Leviathan AI:
Why not just tweak some of the Leviathan's dialogue during its meeting with Shepard to suggest that the AI became Harbinger, kind of like this example that I did here:
(specifically, 0:47 and 3:22 of the video)

Now granted, I made those audio edits in Sony Vegas Pro, but I believe it could be possible to do in-game as well judging from some of the redub and voice-swap mods I've seen. (didn't Mr Fob do that once for the Catalyst?)

Modifié par AVPen, 19 mars 2013 - 03:36 .

[Mr.House]

AVPen wrote...

Regarding Harbinger and the Leviathan AI:
Why not just tweak some of the Leviathan's dialogue during its meeting with Shepard to suggest that the AI became Harbinger, kind of like this example that I did here:
(specifically, 0:47 and 3:22 of the video)

Now granted, I made those audio edits in Sony Vegas Pro, but I believe it could be possible to do in-game as well judging from some of the redub and voice-swap mods I've seen. (didn't Mr Fob do that once for the Catalyst?)

If this is made possible and into a mod, I would love it!

[N7 Lisbeth]

A lot's come and gone since I was last keeping track of this forum regularly (v0.3, etc).

Can someone, please, recap what's planned for v0.4? Always nice to know in advance of planned playthroughs.

[creapsmantic]

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

A lot's come and gone since I was last keeping track of this forum regularly (v0.3, etc).

Can someone, please, recap what's planned for v0.4? Always nice to know in advance of planned playthroughs.

for   v0.4   harbI   get  ripped apart    nahh   my thought  ....  anyway   jsut  some vid  edits  on the ending And more

[LoganKey]

Mr.House wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Regarding Harbinger and the Leviathan AI:
Why not just tweak some of the Leviathan's dialogue during its meeting with Shepard to suggest that the AI became Harbinger, kind of like this example that I did here:
(specifically, 0:47 and 3:22 of the video)

Now granted, I made those audio edits in Sony Vegas Pro, but I believe it could be possible to do in-game as well judging from some of the redub and voice-swap mods I've seen. (didn't Mr Fob do that once for the Catalyst?)

If this is made possible and into a mod, I would love it!

I agree. This needs to make it into the mod as well. It would make Leviathan worth playing through.

[ZLurps]

MrFob wrote...

@ZLurps It's a fascinating theory and you obviously spent quite some time figuring all of this out.However, I think this is far beyond the scope of MEHEM. The intention behind this mod was always to be simplistic, to add as little self created background as possible so that it's applicable to the greatest number of people who want to use it. This goes for the reapers, this goes for the LIs, this goes for Shepard's future after MEHEM. As I said, frypan and I (well, mostly him actually) are already working on some textual additions to make things fit together but even there, we try and keep actual new lore content to a minimum.
Now, that's not to say, your theory should just remain headcannon forever but I think it should be a mod on it's own that can very well work with MEHEM for the people who like the idea.
On the technical side, adding texts should be no problem. Adding triggers, e.g. for datapads and such is a bit more tricky but as long as you do it in the main game, not a DLC, it should be doable.
I haven't checked into codex entries at all but given that we know how to insert emails and assuming that the codex uses a very similar system, that should be possible as well.
Changing the whole BioGame_INT.tlk for this is not a problem. MEHEM already does that anyway.

This is always a problem when posting a wall of text, something is easily missed.

Zlurps wrote....
So we wanted to create this optional "lore" mod that could accompany your mod and you could keep focusing to MEHEM.

When I and Dr. Extrem started this we agreed not to tell you about this project for a very reason not to distract you from working on MEHEM. I decided to reveal this project here now because I started seeing post where people wished additional content so you can now say that it's Zlurps and Dr. Extrem's problem to worry about that now.

That said, as this mod won't work with Starchild, so MEHEM is required for this mod.

I hope we are on the same page now.


But yeah, I guess there's some time put in it but if you read my post carefully it's also obvious that there is more work to be done, so relax, this it's going to take few weeks before this is even on draft stage. Even then your role would be just reviewing the content, to see if there are technical issues implementing it and that there won't be contradictions with other additions to MEHEM.

Technical aspects:

DLC, well, I wondered using some of those unused datapad graphics in Leviathan, but decided against it. DLC shouldn't be required. ME3 DLC sales are ****** poor AFAIK, so most players doesn't have DLC anyway.

Codex, that is actually important. I concider it as deciding factor regarding how and when to make information available for player. The problem isn't the number of existing datapads but that there is so much other interactive content (a lot with emotional impact) that players memory is under pressure already.

If Codex can't be used there are several ways to get around that issue but at some point I need to know. It decides what goes in, what needs to changed and what is going to be cut.

[Dr_Extrem]

yeah .. our mindgame can be seen as an "optional addition" and a possibiliuty to exolain why the reapers are the way they are.

the content is not even fictional - it is more like "leftovers" and lore from the bokks/comics.

its pretty rough atm.


it was never meant to be part of mehem - just somehing, that can be implemented parallel.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 19 mars 2013 - 09:46 .

[Chugster]

ok, i just watched a vid of one of the endings and i gotta says it was good, should definately have been what the 'best' destroy ending should have been....the standard EC endings added closure and showed hope and a future for many of your squadmates but it didnt show hope for Shep, which this does....

Now Shep's canon fate may be addressed in future ME games but this is great for people who want their own head canon right now....

I just wish BW had put one ending where everyone, including Shep, had a happy ending, then everyone would have been happy.

[ZLurps]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

yeah .. our mindgame can be seen as an "optional addition" and a possibiliuty to exolain why the reapers are the way they are.

the content is not even fictional - it is more like "leftovers" and lore from the bokks/comics.

its pretty rough atm.


it was never meant to be part of mehem - just somehing, that can be implemented parallel.

Yep and I totally forgot to emphasize that it's based on existing works of original ME team writers, Drew Karpyshyn novels and Chris L'Etoile's visions. Only total exception to that is example I wrote about closing Dark Energy plot started in ME2. That said, even ME2 writing team couldn't agree what exactly to do with Dark Energy plot when they were were writing ME2. Drew had his vision and other writers had other opinions.

I forget way too often that lot of, perhaps even most people who really enjoyed what was happening on the background left the forums after ME3. Fiction we create here is most just filling the gaps which probably isn't easy to note unless player paid attention to that aspect of ME games.

Modifié par ZLurps, 19 mars 2013 - 10:51 .

[Dr_Extrem]

ZLurps wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

yeah .. our mindgame can be seen as an "optional addition" and a possibiliuty to exolain why the reapers are the way they are.

the content is not even fictional - it is more like "leftovers" and lore from the bokks/comics.

its pretty rough atm.


it was never meant to be part of mehem - just somehing, that can be implemented parallel.

Yep and I totally forgot to emphasize that it's based on existing works of original ME team writers, Drew Karpyshyn novels and Chris L'Etoile's visions. Only total exception to that is example I wrote about closing Dark Energy plot started in ME2. That said, even ME2 writing team couldn't agree what exactly to do with Dark Energy plot when they were were writing ME2. Drew had his vision and other writers had other opinions.

I forget way too often that lot of, perhaps even most people who really enjoyed what was happening on the background left the forums after ME3. Fiction we create here is most just filling the gaps which probably isn't easy to note unless player paid attention to that aspect of ME games.

even if you really payed attention to the game, "filling the gaps" is too often a necessity. in addition, some of the gaps are "grand canyon"-class gaps.

mass effect 3s story demands jumps, that only evil knievel was able to do. thats the overall probem with the me3 narrative - it demands, that the player handwaves too much.

[Alienmorph]

AVPen wrote...

Regarding Harbinger and the Leviathan AI:
Why not just tweak some of the Leviathan's dialogue during its meeting with Shepard to suggest that the AI became Harbinger, kind of like this example that I did here:
(specifically, 0:47 and 3:22 of the video)

Now granted, I made those audio edits in Sony Vegas Pro, but I believe it could be possible to do in-game as well judging from some of the redub and voice-swap mods I've seen. (didn't Mr Fob do that once for the Catalyst?)

Just perfect, the Startchild eliminated even as foreshadowing and Leviathan becoming the big reveal moment of the Reaper's nature, as it should have been in the first place. It really has to become part of the mod.

[MrFob]

@ZLurps & Dr_Extrem: Uh crap. sorry I missed that line in your post. I knew I shouldn't have read it before having my first coffee. Anyway, as I said, I am happy to help with this. Most of the technical stuff seems very feasible to me.

@AVPen: I'll have to get back to you on Leviathan mods when I finished my current playthrough (still in ME2, takes quite some time with all DLC installed). I haven't watched the video yet but I'll keep it in mind and will get back to it hen I am through.

[Muddle]

Shepard wins! Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you!
 
I think I read, a few pages back, there maybe plans for Javik. Are you going to include the Javik outcome of book/ Liara outcome as an option or will it only reflect the suicide outcome?
 
The Citadel DLC definitely works well after the end, if you...........         


*SPOILER* think of it as happening at least 2 years after the ending (after all the Geth are alive and the Citadel is probably the second repaired) and ignore the beginning conversation of the DLC and think of it as Anderson wiling the apartment to Shepard.  Though it does make Anderson’s death sadder.


THANKS AGAIN!!!!    

[Atherus]

LoganKey wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Regarding Harbinger and the Leviathan AI:
Why not just tweak some of the Leviathan's dialogue during its meeting with Shepard to suggest that the AI became Harbinger, kind of like this example that I did here:
(specifically, 0:47 and 3:22 of the video)

Now granted, I made those audio edits in Sony Vegas Pro, but I believe it could be possible to do in-game as well judging from some of the redub and voice-swap mods I've seen. (didn't Mr Fob do that once for the Catalyst?)

If this is made possible and into a mod, I would love it!

I agree. This needs to make it into the mod as well. It would make Leviathan worth playing through.

Yeah, because I´m a MEHEMer too (not because it let´s Shepard live, but because it get´s rid of Starbrat AND is playable ingame) Leviathan just doesn´t really fit into the game for me because in it´s original state it is there for foreshadowing this brat.
So if by any chance this could find it´s way into the game, I would consider to buy Leviathan too. And yeah, I dislike the Starbrat just this much to not buy it right now.

[Prince Keldar]

LoganKey wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Regarding Harbinger and the Leviathan AI:
Why not just tweak some of the Leviathan's dialogue during its meeting with Shepard to suggest that the AI became Harbinger, kind of like this example that I did here:
(specifically, 0:47 and 3:22 of the video)

Now granted, I made those audio edits in Sony Vegas Pro, but I believe it could be possible to do in-game as well judging from some of the redub and voice-swap mods I've seen. (didn't Mr Fob do that once for the Catalyst?)

If this is made possible and into a mod, I would love it!

I agree. This needs to make it into the mod as well. It would make Leviathan worth playing through.

Yes!!  I had always thought that Harbinger was THE Reaper, like the Boss Reaper.  And then the end of ME3 comes around and it turns out that Harbinger is just another grunt following orders......................really? 

However, I think that this would have to be a separate, but complementary, mod since it falls outside of MEHEM.  

[Daiyus]

Holy crap! I've posted here before based solely on what I'd read, but I'm half way through watching the V0.3 Miranda vid and it's so good that I actually felt compelled to write here.

I haven't played ME3 with the EC yet. I got a new PC the same week ME3 came out (I'd played ME on Xbox and PS3 before that), so I did a no import ME3 run to get the gist, and then started a PC trilogy run. I'm now in ME2 and was planning on playing through all three games unmodded, even though I knew about this mod. I wasn't really that upset with the original endings, but the video has completely convinced me to jump straight onboard. I want this to be my ending.

It'll be a while before I get to it, so it'll be interesting to see how it develops before I need to install it. I'm really liking the idea of the lore mod mentioned by ZLurps. You guys have managed to convince someone who was neutral on the whole thing to change their game. I can really understand how the ending haters must love this now!

Modifié par Daiyus, 19 mars 2013 - 04:34 .