7347 réponses à ce sujet

[Fedi.St]

its kinda cool but its not mass effect. as "not mass effect" are the last 10 minutes of the game. not to mention the extended cut scenes pre beam.


MEEM really is our best shot to save the game.

[cfs3corsair]

@Fedi.St I do respect your opinion, but I think I will stick with MEHEM.
@ MrFob and everyone else
On an entirely different note, just went through my ending and found another (minor) glitch :/
During the memorial scene Hackett is supposed to say something about honoring the dead right? He doesnt in mine. Nothing I am complaining about, but maybe it is tied to the Miranda/Jack glitch?

[Fedi.St]

respect to mr fob for the time spent to do this.

[wright1978]

Finally got round to installing MEHEM and then working up the will to put one of my sheps through the entire game to see what i made of it. Big congrats to the creator of this mod. It actually modifies the ending into something that holds together much better and feels rewarding. Amazing what no bratalyst, no garden eden planet and pay off for live shep can do to the ending. Will be unboxing the rest of my Sheps for their moments in the spotlight and bringing my canon Shep back to the party finally(though ideally i'd love for him to get to hug his Miranda at the end). Cheers

Modifié par wright1978, 29 mars 2013 - 10:07 .

[ruggly]

Fedi.St wrote...

I;ll just say it again happy ending in mass effect is the first thing that diminishes the reaper threat into nothing.

just doesn't feel right that a hero like shepard would not sacrifice himself for what he fights for.

the problem is the sunthetics problem not the sacrifice.

all in all good work though and respect to mr fob

I'd say the reaper threat diminished when they became tools of a crazed AI, perpetuating the very cycle it was created to stop.

So I disagree, Shepard has managed to come out alive in two "impossible" situations, so why not a third.

Just my opinion though.  The original and EC ending sacrifices are quite meaningless to me.

[wavion]

Fedi.St wrote...

just doesn't feel right that a hero like shepard would not sacrifice himself for what he fights for.

Just because he didn't die doesn't mean he wasn't willing to.  If you run into a burning building to save somebody, are you any less of a hero if you manage to come back out alive?

[Mr.House]

Fedi.St wrote...

I;ll just say it again happy ending in mass effect is the first thing that diminishes the reaper threat into nothing.

just doesn't feel right that a hero like shepard would not sacrifice himself for what he fights for.

the problem is the sunthetics problem not the sacrifice.

all in all good work though and respect to mr fob

<_< Why does Shepard need to die to be a hero?

[creapsmantic]

that persona is just talking shhh it or just complaining he does not have to install this mod


what a jerk

[Iakus]

Fedi.St wrote...

just doesn't feel right that a hero like shepard would not sacrifice himself for what he fights for.

I always think of that moment in the movie Serenity...

Operative: And are you willing to die for that belief? 
Mal Reynolds: Yes... I am.
[pause] 
 ::pulls out a gun and starts shooting at The Operative:: 
Mal Reynolds: 'Course, it's not exactly Plan A

Dying isn't exaactly Plan A for me either.
But that's the great thing about MEHEM.  It's another option for the player...

Modifié par iakus, 30 mars 2013 - 12:05 .

[Mr.House]

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]Fedi.St wrote...

just doesn't feel right that a hero like shepard would not sacrifice himself for what he fights for.
[/quote]

I always think of that moment in the movie Serenity...

Operative: And are you willing to die for that belief? 
Mal Reynolds: Yes... I am.
[pause] 
 ::pulls out a gun and starts shooting at The Operative:: 
Mal Reynolds: 'Course, it's not exactly Plan A

Dying isn't exaactly Plan A for me either.
But that's the great thing about MEHEM.  It's another option for the player...[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

[MrFob]

Awwww, good old Firefly. A shame it aint comin' back.

@Fedi.St: I get what you mean but I am not quite sure I agree either. I think with a game which offers such a variety in storytelling to the player (paragon/renegade, persuasion/non-persuation options etc.) there is no single answer to the question of what makes the Mass Effect story a Mass Effect story or which ending fits best. It completely depends on the individual experience of each player. That's why I am rather mad at BW for only giving us 3 times a very similar outcome (and a 4th in the EC that was diminished to "you dies stupidly").
I agree that for certain Shepards, sacrifice is an important theme and it makes perfect sense for Shep to die in the end (from a narrative perspective). However, there are other Shepard's (I am playing one of those right now) who are the classic hero in a classical epic tale. In this case, a tragic ending (especially when combined with all the logical inconsistencies of the original) just doesn't fit the story that was told before. It's not a climax but an anticlimax all of a sudden. That's why I always said, due to technical limitations, you need to make your choice of ending when installing a mod, you need to make the required variety yourself.
Point on the side: v0.4 will contain a little more tragedy for a low EMS situation, I am curious to hear what you think of it when it's out. Will still take some time though.

@ruggly: Couldn't agree more with your first sentence there. That's actually the main motivation for me me to change the endings in the first place. Given that Fedi.St sweems to like MEEM, he'd probably agree as well.

@cfs3corsair: That's actually on purpose. Hackett still has that line if you don't hug anyone in v0.3. However, since the LI scene ends with the hug and the emphasis on the reunion, I decided to leave that last line out and end the game with the "we can face it together" line. Hackett already talked about honouring the dead before and this seemed more appropriate in the context of the images.

[CommanderVyse]

MEHEM shows how far both Shepard and the crew has come in the trilogy.

Shepard:
ME1: Shepard isn't fast/strong/good enough to save both crewmates on Virmire
Beginning of ME2: Shepard refuses to leave someone behind again, saves Joker, not good enough to save him/herself
End of ME2: Shepard is capable of ending the threat and bringing the entire crew out alive
MEHEM: Shepard saves the entire galaxy, and doesn't have to sacrifice friends and allies to do so

The Crew:
ME1: None of the crew really have their act together, Wrex is a wandering mercenary, Garrus is stuck in a job that limits him, etc.
ME2: Inspired by Shepard, the original crew start doing great things. Wrex is a ruler, Liara becomes the Shadow Broker. The new crew is also inspired by Shepard. Jack for example will go on to become a teacher. However, they all still need Shepard to help with their problems.
MEHEM: This time around, it's the crew that saves Shepard. They don't abandon their friend, instead they fly straight into certain death and emerge triumphant.

You don't get that kind of character growth with the original ending.

[ruggly]

MrFob wrote...
@ruggly: Couldn't agree more with your first sentence there. That's actually the main motivation for me me to change the endings in the first place. Given that Fedi.St sweems to like MEEM, he'd probably agree as well.

It is a bit ridiculous.  "Yo, I heard you don't like being killed by synthetics.  So I made these hybrid synthetic starships that make synthetics go after you, and then I come in and harvest you to save you from these synthetics that these synthetics I made sent after you.  Those Geth that are now fighting alongside you?  They never wanted to kill you, but Sovereign made less than 5% of the Geth go after you, so really, all Geth are going to kill you.  Same with those Zha'til, they were fine with organics until us reapers came in and turned them into organic killing abominations.  So they wanted to kill you as well."

[mtmercydave09]

wwinters99 wrote...

MEHEM shows how far both Shepard and the crew has come in the trilogy.

Shepard:
ME1: Shepard isn't fast/strong/good enough to save both crewmates on Virmire
Beginning of ME2: Shepard refuses to leave someone behind again, saves Joker, not good enough to save him/herself
End of ME2: Shepard is capable of ending the threat and bringing the entire crew out alive
MEHEM: Shepard saves the entire galaxy, and doesn't have to sacrifice friends and allies to do so

The Crew:
ME1: None of the crew really have their act together, Wrex is a wandering mercenary, Garrus is stuck in a job that limits him, etc.
ME2: Inspired by Shepard, the original crew start doing great things. Wrex is a ruler, Liara becomes the Shadow Broker. The new crew is also inspired by Shepard. Jack for example will go on to become a teacher. However, they all still need Shepard to help with their problems.
MEHEM: This time around, it's the crew that saves Shepard. They don't abandon their friend, instead they fly straight into certain death and emerge triumphant.

You don't get that kind of character growth with the original ending.

Exactly, and it works even better when combined with the Citadel DLC, since the Citadel DLC revolves around the characters around Shepard making Shepard who he is.

I'm just glad we have the MEHEM around to provide a better ending.  I really can't bear to watch any other ending.  MEHEM gives us the completely triumphant ending to a great trilogy that many of us wanted in the first place.

Modifié par mtmercydave09, 30 mars 2013 - 02:33 .

[Fedi.St]

I'm a MEEM fan mr fob.

I understand where u coming from but they way the game is set points towards sacrifice. At least as I perceive it.

[Prince Keldar]

wwinters99 wrote...

MEHEM shows how far both Shepard and the crew has come in the trilogy.

Shepard:
ME1: Shepard isn't fast/strong/good enough to save both crewmates on Virmire
Beginning of ME2: Shepard refuses to leave someone behind again, saves Joker, not good enough to save him/herself
End of ME2: Shepard is capable of ending the threat and bringing the entire crew out alive
MEHEM: Shepard saves the entire galaxy, and doesn't have to sacrifice friends and allies to do so

The Crew:
ME1: None of the crew really have their act together, Wrex is a wandering mercenary, Garrus is stuck in a job that limits him, etc.
ME2: Inspired by Shepard, the original crew start doing great things. Wrex is a ruler, Liara becomes the Shadow Broker. The new crew is also inspired by Shepard. Jack for example will go on to become a teacher. However, they all still need Shepard to help with their problems.
MEHEM: This time around, it's the crew that saves Shepard. They don't abandon their friend, instead they fly straight into certain death and emerge triumphant.

You don't get that kind of character growth with the original ending.

This is a much better way of saying what I tried to say earlier.  I agree completely!!

[MrFob]

Well, just played through Leviathan. It's incredible how BW managed to explain pretty much everything about the reapers without giving everything away already. Kudos for that.
I don't think anything needs to be changed necessarily for MEHEM. The good thing is the Leviathan is very vague on this intelligence. As far as I could see, it's not clear where or what exactly it is. One can even interpret it in a way that it is just the intelligence of the reapers themselves. With each cycle a new reaper is created with it's own independence but it adds to the the whole. Just like human development could be interpreted as the summed up cultural treats of every individual. It may sound like a bit of a stretch but given the Leviathan's apparent tendency to see entire species as tools, and the nature of the communication with Shep, I think it's fair enough that a rather uncommon interpretation of the exact wording is warranted.

@AVPen: I also had a look at your video, which you linked a couple of pages ago. Great work on the editing there. I do think however that giving Harbinger the supreme role amongst the reapers is not really that much better than giving it to the star kid. While I always interpreted Harby to have an elevated role amongst the reapers, just like Sovereign (at least from the perceptive of the organics), I rather like the idea that in the end, all reaper capital ships are almost equal (or at least comparable) in their abilities. As Sovereign says: "We are each a nation, independent, free of all weakness." I think giving them a master mind or a supreme ruler or whatever, diminishes them, be that Harbinger or the catalyst or whoever.

Considering everything above, I should say that I only listened to the dialogue once so it's very possible that I missed something that contradicts me here. More input would be appreciated.

BTW, funniest moment for me during the DLC: I was scanning the Lenal system, reading the description for Triginta Petra, a planet apparently mostly colonised by turian farmers. The last paragraph of the description goes like this:
"Preliminary scans of Triginta Petra suggest that the Reapers judged its population too low to harvest and struck its colonies with kinetic impactors. They then moved on, trusting that the destruction of the food supply's main arteries would finish off the inhabitants of such a biota-poor world."
Well, I got a signal from the planet so I sent a probe down and it says: "dextro rations recovered".
Nice going Shep! Steeling rations from a starving population. Well done!

EDIT: Also, found some potentially really cool stuff to use for MEHEM in there.

Modifié par MrFob, 30 mars 2013 - 03:41 .

[Iakus]

MrFob wrote...

Well, just played through Leviathan. It's incredible how BW managed to explain pretty much everything about the reapers without giving everything away already. Kudos for that.
I don't think anything needs to be changed necessarily for MEHEM. The good thing is the Leviathan is very vague on this intelligence. As far as I could see, it's not clear where or what exactly it is. One can even interpret it in a way that it is just the intelligence of the reapers themselves. With each cycle a new reaper is created with it's own independence but it adds to the the whole. Just like human development could be interpreted as the summed up cultural treats of every individual. It may sound like a bit of a stretch but given the Leviathan's apparent tendency to see entire species as tools, and the nature of the communication with Shep, I think it's fair enough that a rather uncommon interpretation of the exact wording is warranted.

Yeah without the Starkid actually making an appearance, it's pretty easy to imagine that "the intelligence" is somehow diffused through all the Reapers.  Or may even no longer exist and the Reapers are simply following their last instructions (if you really don't want the Catalyst around) 

BTW, funniest moment for me during the DLC: I was scanning the Lenal system, reading the description for Triginta Petra, a planet apparently mostly colonised by turian farmers. The last paragraph of the description goes like this:
"Preliminary scans of Triginta Petra suggest that the Reapers judged its population too low to harvest and struck its colonies with kinetic impactors. They then moved on, trusting that the destruction of the food supply's main arteries would finish off the inhabitants of such a biota-poor world."
Well, I got a signal from the planet so I sent a probe down and it says: "dextro rations recovered".
Nice going Shep! Steeling rations from a starving population. Well done!

No doubt that little War Asset was in response to claims that all the quarians and turians starve in the original ending 

[Getorex]

ruggly wrote...

Fedi.St wrote...

I;ll just say it again happy ending in mass effect is the first thing that diminishes the reaper threat into nothing.

just doesn't feel right that a hero like shepard would not sacrifice himself for what he fights for.

the problem is the sunthetics problem not the sacrifice.

all in all good work though and respect to mr fob

I'd say the reaper threat diminished when they became tools of a crazed AI, perpetuating the very cycle it was created to stop.

So I disagree, Shepard has managed to come out alive in two "impossible" situations, so why not a third.

Just my opinion though.  The original and EC ending sacrifices are quite meaningless to me.

I agree.  The Reapers were diminished when they became insane tools working off of "We have to destroy you before you can build an AI that will do it first.  WE get to kill you first!"

MEHEM IS Mass Effect.  ME1: happy ending.  Shepard climbs from the rubble when all thought him dead.  Nope, he ain't.  ME2: Suicide mission that can actually be won 100% without a single death, if you play the game right.  The same should have been true of ME3 to make it 100% in tune with the rest of the game. 

I truly HATE a game that I cannot win.  If I work hard, am thorough, am diligent, then I expect to be able to win a game.  My character dying arbitrarily, for the sake of empty "sacrifice", is not winning.  MEHEM gives me the win I work HARD for.  Hell, I played ME2 initially to get to the state where I saved ALL my team.  If one of them died then I wanted to play again to try and save them.  In ME3 you aren't given that option...until MEHEM came along. 

[Getorex]

iakus wrote...

MrFob wrote...

Well, just played through Leviathan. It's incredible how BW managed to explain pretty much everything about the reapers without giving everything away already. Kudos for that.
I don't think anything needs to be changed necessarily for MEHEM. The good thing is the Leviathan is very vague on this intelligence. As far as I could see, it's not clear where or what exactly it is. One can even interpret it in a way that it is just the intelligence of the reapers themselves. With each cycle a new reaper is created with it's own independence but it adds to the the whole. Just like human development could be interpreted as the summed up cultural treats of every individual. It may sound like a bit of a stretch but given the Leviathan's apparent tendency to see entire species as tools, and the nature of the communication with Shep, I think it's fair enough that a rather uncommon interpretation of the exact wording is warranted.

Yeah without the Starkid actually making an appearance, it's pretty easy to imagine that "the intelligence" is somehow diffused through all the Reapers.  Or may even no longer exist and the Reapers are simply following their last instructions (if you really don't want the Catalyst around) 

BTW, funniest moment for me during the DLC: I was scanning the Lenal system, reading the description for Triginta Petra, a planet apparently mostly colonised by turian farmers. The last paragraph of the description goes like this:
"Preliminary scans of Triginta Petra suggest that the Reapers judged its population too low to harvest and struck its colonies with kinetic impactors. They then moved on, trusting that the destruction of the food supply's main arteries would finish off the inhabitants of such a biota-poor world."
Well, I got a signal from the planet so I sent a probe down and it says: "dextro rations recovered".
Nice going Shep! Steeling rations from a starving population. Well done!

No doubt that little War Asset was in response to claims that all the quarians and turians starve in the original ending 

Leviathon turned out to be pointless.  A fun and interesting DLC but illogical and pointless to the overall game.  You go to "recruit" the Leviathon(s).  So where are they after the DLC?  They aren't in the fleet attacking the Reapers around Earth.  They make no appearance at all after the DLC.  Some "war asset".  Next is the illogic:  they are "Reaper killers".  They do it with a mere thought...so why were they crushed so long ago if it was so easy?  All they had to do was "think" the Reapers away and POOF!  They're done.  They kill Reapers so easily that there is no need for a crucible at all.  Just get the Leviathons out of bed and point them at the giant space bed bugs.  No, they are LOSERS.  They built an AI that killed them while the Quarians and humans manage to build AIs that have no beef against their creators at all.  The Geth were 100% against wiping out the Quarians...until a Reaper came along and FORCED a subset (the "Heretics") to do what they wouldn't do naturally.  Then there's EDI by the humans.  Not only does she not want to turn on her creators, no, she wants to have a romantic relationship with one of her creators!  The Leviathons clearly didn't know how to make AIs properly.  The idiots.

Modifié par Getorex, 30 mars 2013 - 03:43 .

[Getorex]

MrFob wrote...

Well, just played through Leviathan. It's incredible how BW managed to explain pretty much everything about the reapers without giving everything away already. Kudos for that.
I don't think anything needs to be changed necessarily for MEHEM. The good thing is the Leviathan is very vague on this intelligence. As far as I could see, it's not clear where or what exactly it is. One can even interpret it in a way that it is just the intelligence of the reapers themselves. With each cycle a new reaper is created with it's own independence but it adds to the the whole. Just like human development could be interpreted as the summed up cultural treats of every individual. It may sound like a bit of a stretch but given the Leviathan's apparent tendency to see entire species as tools, and the nature of the communication with Shep, I think it's fair enough that a rather uncommon interpretation of the exact wording is warranted.

@AVPen: I also had a look at your video, which you linked a couple of pages ago. Great work on the editing there. I do think however that giving Harbinger the supreme role amongst the reapers is not really that much better than giving it to the star kid. While I always interpreted Harby to have an elevated role amongst the reapers, just like Sovereign (at least from the perceptive of the organics), I rather like the idea that in the end, all reaper capital ships are almost equal (or at least comparable) in their abilities. As Sovereign says: "We are each a nation, independent, free of all weakness." I think giving them a master mind or a supreme ruler or whatever, diminishes them, be that Harbinger or the catalyst or whoever.

Considering everything above, I should say that I only listened to the dialogue once so it's very possible that I missed something that contradicts me here. More input would be appreciated.

BTW, funniest moment for me during the DLC: I was scanning the Lenal system, reading the description for Triginta Petra, a planet apparently mostly colonised by turian farmers. The last paragraph of the description goes like this:
"Preliminary scans of Triginta Petra suggest that the Reapers judged its population too low to harvest and struck its colonies with kinetic impactors. They then moved on, trusting that the destruction of the food supply's main arteries would finish off the inhabitants of such a biota-poor world."
Well, I got a signal from the planet so I sent a probe down and it says: "dextro rations recovered".
Nice going Shep! Steeling rations from a starving population. Well done!

The last bit is no more disconcerting than the rampant looting that Shepard does (is expected to do, even is required to do) to get through the game.  It is particularly funny in ME2 when you are in the plague wards on Omega, you enter an apartment with looters in it.  Shepard has the option of saying, "I don't like looters".  Of course, you then proceed to loot the apartment (and every corpse or room you find before and after this point).  I NEVER choose that dialog option for that very reason: what has my Shepard HAD to do in this game from the start of ME1 to the very end?  LOOT. 

[Iakus]

Getorex wrote...
Leviathon turned out to be pointless.  A fun and interesting DLC but illogical and pointless to the overall game.  You go to "recruit" the Leviathon(s).  So where are they after the DLC?  They aren't in the fleet attacking the Reapers around Earth.  They make no appearance at all after the DLC.  Some "war asset".  Next is the illogic:  they are "Reaper killers".  They do it with a mere thought...so why were they crushed so long ago if it was so easy?  All they had to do was "think" the Reapers away and POOF!  They're done.  They kill Reapers so easily that there is no need for a crucible at all.  Just get the Leviathons out of bed and point them at the giant space bed bugs.  No, they are LOSERS.  They built an AI that killed them while the Quarians and humans manage to build AIs that have no beef against their creators at all.  The Geth were 100% against wiping out the Quarians...until a Reaper came along and FORCED a subset (the "Heretics") to do what they wouldn't do naturally.  Then there's EDI by the humans.  Not only does she not want to turn on her creators, no, she wants to have a romantic relationship with one of her creators!  The Leviathons clearly didn't know how to make AIs properly.  The idiots.

Leviathan gave Ash more lines.

Totally worth it 

[mtmercydave09]

iakus wrote...

Getorex wrote...
Leviathon turned out to be pointless.  A fun and interesting DLC but illogical and pointless to the overall game.  You go to "recruit" the Leviathon(s).  So where are they after the DLC?  They aren't in the fleet attacking the Reapers around Earth.  They make no appearance at all after the DLC.  Some "war asset".  Next is the illogic:  they are "Reaper killers".  They do it with a mere thought...so why were they crushed so long ago if it was so easy?  All they had to do was "think" the Reapers away and POOF!  They're done.  They kill Reapers so easily that there is no need for a crucible at all.  Just get the Leviathons out of bed and point them at the giant space bed bugs.  No, they are LOSERS.  They built an AI that killed them while the Quarians and humans manage to build AIs that have no beef against their creators at all.  The Geth were 100% against wiping out the Quarians...until a Reaper came along and FORCED a subset (the "Heretics") to do what they wouldn't do naturally.  Then there's EDI by the humans.  Not only does she not want to turn on her creators, no, she wants to have a romantic relationship with one of her creators!  The Leviathons clearly didn't know how to make AIs properly.  The idiots.

Leviathan gave Ash more lines.

Totally worth it 

Seriously?  Glad I just bought it then.  Now I'm gonna have to play it just to have Ash get more lines.  She needs them.

[MoFetti1]

Omg....Thank You!!! This is all I was looking for and more...A true ending...Someone at EA needs to give you guys a damn job and let you release this as official....I'd buy more ME if you guys were working on it.

[Iakus]

mtmercydave09 wrote...

Seriously?  Glad I just bought it then.  Now I'm gonna have to play it just to have Ash get more lines.  She needs them.

All the squadmates + Steve get dialogue in it