7347 réponses à ce sujet

[AVPen]

In case people are curious about what video MrFob is referencing, here's a link: Leviathan AI = Harbinger
(specifically, 0:47 and 3:25 of the video)

MrFob wrote...

@AVPen: I also had a look at your video, which you linked a couple of pages ago. Great work on the editing there. I do think however that giving Harbinger the supreme role amongst the reapers is not really that much better than giving it to the star kid. While I always interpreted Harby to have an elevated role amongst the reapers, just like Sovereign (at least from the perceptive of the organics), I rather like the idea that in the end, all reaper capital ships are almost equal (or at least comparable) in their abilities. As Sovereign says: "We are each a nation, independent, free of all weakness." I think giving them a master mind or a supreme ruler or whatever, diminishes them, be that Harbinger or the catalyst or whoever.

For me, removing the Catalyst from the plot (which I'm also doing in my Fanedit Series project) is a big improvement to ME3's story, but doing so raises a central plothole in my mind: "Whatever happened to the AI that created the Reapers and started the cycle?"

In both the Thessia mission and Leviathan DLC, it is brought up that there is/was a central intelligence responsible for the cycle of Harvesting, but now without the Catalyst present at the end, the references to an AI that created the Reapers brings too many questions to my mind to be resolved simply by "head-cannoning" an explanation as to the AI's fate. In contrast, rewriting that the AI became the 1st Reaper manages to give a lot more menace and explanation to Habringer's role in the Mass Effect story (including its power/control over the Collectors and its presence in the Arrival DLC), especially with it's new dialogue at the London Conduit sequence now.

(additionally, I think Harbinger being the central force behind the Reapers also serves as a good reason why the Reaper on Rannoch would specifically mentions Harbinger by name to Shepard..... as opposed to a throwaway line written soley to remind fans that Harbinger still actually exists in the story, but doesn't do jack.... <_< )

Modifié par AVPen, 30 mars 2013 - 04:46 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I think just swapping out the Catalyst for Harbinger doesn't solve anything in the main game. Actually it creates another hole. Just my opinion.

[Bierwichtel]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I think just swapping out the Catalyst for Harbinger doesn't solve anything in the main game. Actually it creates another hole. Just my opinion.

The Reapers were at their best when there was still mystery, when they where still an unknown, unknowable... when they seemingly had no motivation, or if they had one humans could not fathom what that was...

[srsparky32]

quick question...i have a femshep and i did synthesis ending with the extended cut.. everything was absolutely perfect (edi was happy, joker was with her, krogan were having babies and rebuilding, reapers were helping rebuild, etc..) BUT liara remained sad and alone.. Will this enable my shepard to be with her again physically? like the video with femshep and garrus.


also a suggestion..keep the synthesis ending but make it so that shepard survives that would be the ultimate ending. 

Modifié par srsparky32, 30 mars 2013 - 08:18 .

[SiriusXI]

srsparky32 wrote...

quick question...i have a femshep and i did synthesis ending with the extended cut.. everything was absolutely perfect (edi was happy, joker was with her, krogan were having babies and rebuilding, reapers were helping rebuild, etc..) BUT liara remained sad and alone.. Will this enable my shepard to be with her again physically? like the video with femshep and garrus.


also a suggestion..keep the synthesis ending but make it so that shepard survives that would be the ultimate ending. 

That would make no sense. For synthesis to work, you need the catalyst's explanation why the reapers are his solution and are, actually, misunderstood heros (). Without this (flawed and stupid) explanation, MEHEM using synthesis would make even less sense than the original endings.

[srsparky32]

SiriusXI wrote...

srsparky32 wrote...

quick question...i have a femshep and i did synthesis ending with the extended cut.. everything was absolutely perfect (edi was happy, joker was with her, krogan were having babies and rebuilding, reapers were helping rebuild, etc..) BUT liara remained sad and alone.. Will this enable my shepard to be with her again physically? like the video with femshep and garrus.


also a suggestion..keep the synthesis ending but make it so that shepard survives that would be the ultimate ending. 

That would make no sense. For synthesis to work, you need the catalyst's explanation why the reapers are his solution and are, actually, misunderstood heros (). Without this (flawed and stupid) explanation, MEHEM using synthesis would make even less sense than the original endings.

i know it makes no sense, but in my eyes its the perfect ending. everybody survives, nobody dies, and my femshep gets reunited with liara. maybe i will just do synthesis ending again and then do the romance scene with liara and call that my own personal ending to the game. 

also, i liked that the reapers turned out to be the unsung heroes..everything they did was to preserve the cycles of evolution, so in a sense they were actually saving us all. thats why i went synthesis, so that they could work with us instead of work against us. 

Modifié par srsparky32, 30 mars 2013 - 09:09 .

[Bierwichtel]

srsparky32 wrote...

SiriusXI wrote...

srsparky32 wrote...

quick question...i have a femshep and i did synthesis ending with the extended cut.. everything was absolutely perfect (edi was happy, joker was with her, krogan were having babies and rebuilding, reapers were helping rebuild, etc..) BUT liara remained sad and alone.. Will this enable my shepard to be with her again physically? like the video with femshep and garrus.


also a suggestion..keep the synthesis ending but make it so that shepard survives that would be the ultimate ending. 

That would make no sense. For synthesis to work, you need the catalyst's explanation why the reapers are his solution and are, actually, misunderstood heros (). Without this (flawed and stupid) explanation, MEHEM using synthesis would make even less sense than the original endings.

i know it makes no sense, but in my eyes its the perfect ending. everybody survives, nobody dies, and my femshep gets reunited with liara. maybe i will just do synthesis ending again and then do the romance scene with liara and call that my own personal ending to the game. 

the reunion does work with every LI as of v0.3...

in MEHEM EDI does survive, as well...

[srsparky32]

Bierwichtel wrote...

srsparky32 wrote...

SiriusXI wrote...

srsparky32 wrote...

quick question...i have a femshep and i did synthesis ending with the extended cut.. everything was absolutely perfect (edi was happy, joker was with her, krogan were having babies and rebuilding, reapers were helping rebuild, etc..) BUT liara remained sad and alone.. Will this enable my shepard to be with her again physically? like the video with femshep and garrus.


also a suggestion..keep the synthesis ending but make it so that shepard survives that would be the ultimate ending. 

That would make no sense. For synthesis to work, you need the catalyst's explanation why the reapers are his solution and are, actually, misunderstood heros (). Without this (flawed and stupid) explanation, MEHEM using synthesis would make even less sense than the original endings.

i know it makes no sense, but in my eyes its the perfect ending. everybody survives, nobody dies, and my femshep gets reunited with liara. maybe i will just do synthesis ending again and then do the romance scene with liara and call that my own personal ending to the game. 

the reunion does work with every LI as of v0.3...

in MEHEM EDI does survive, as well...

yes, but you dont get to see the scene of her smiling and being with joker. which really warmed my heart. 

for me at least, the better "ending" is my femshep telling liara that she loves her, and vice versa, and then ending it with the romance scene. it works better for me because ever since the first one ive romanced liara (and continued it in shadow broker which was my sole reason for getting the DLC )  so ending the game on the highest note possible with her was my ideal way of ending it  and in my mind, it all fit perfectly..synthesis and a good romance with her instead of just a hug.

Modifié par srsparky32, 30 mars 2013 - 09:28 .

[Bierwichtel]

CTRL+A and DEL

Modifié par Bierwichtel, 30 mars 2013 - 09:40 .

[Bierwichtel]

Bierwichtel wrote...

srsparky32 wrote...

Bierwichtel wrote...

srsparky32 wrote...

SiriusXI wrote...

srsparky32 wrote...

quick question...i have a femshep and i did synthesis ending with the extended cut.. everything was absolutely perfect (edi was happy, joker was with her, krogan were having babies and rebuilding, reapers were helping rebuild, etc..) BUT liara remained sad and alone.. Will this enable my shepard to be with her again physically? like the video with femshep and garrus.


also a suggestion..keep the synthesis ending but make it so that shepard survives that would be the ultimate ending. 

That would make no sense. For synthesis to work, you need the catalyst's explanation why the reapers are his solution and are, actually, misunderstood heros (). Without this (flawed and stupid) explanation, MEHEM using synthesis would make even less sense than the original endings.

i know it makes no sense, but in my eyes its the perfect ending. everybody survives, nobody dies, and my femshep gets reunited with liara. maybe i will just do synthesis ending again and then do the romance scene with liara and call that my own personal ending to the game. 

the reunion does work with every LI as of v0.3...

in MEHEM EDI does survive, as well...

yes, but you dont get to see the scene of her smiling and being with joker. which really warmed my heart. 

for me at least, the better "ending" is my femshep telling liara that she loves her, and vice versa, and then ending it with the romance scene. it works better for me because ever since the first one ive romanced liara (and continued it in shadow broker which was my sole reason for getting the DLC )  so ending the game on the highest note possible with her was my ideal way of ending it  and in my mind, it all fit perfectly..synthesis and a good romance with her. 

so it's not actually about synthesis for you? It's more about the JoDI romance?

don't know if it's possible, but...

@CPTFob: is it possible to use or integrate a flag to make a slide or so for JoDI show up? I guess this would indeed appease Sparky...


@srsparky32: I am a hardcore FemShep Liaramancer myself...

EDIT:

[srsparky32]

so it's not actually about synthesis for you? It's more about the JoDI romance?

don't know if it's possible, but...

@CPTFob: is it possible to use or integrate a flag to make a slide or so for JoDI show up? I guess this would indeed appease Sparky...


@srsparky32: I am a hardcore FemShep Liaramance myself...

EDIT:

Yeah it was mostly about joker and EDI, but it was also about EDI becoming human, in a way. seeing her smile, and being sad, was really nice. In the whole game, all i did when i talked to her was encourage her to be more human..so it was really nice to see that it actually happened, EDI became human. Anyway, If that was indeed possible, that would defiently be most excellent. I would also love it if the femshep/liara romance scene was somehow spliced in, instead of just a hug. i mean i know it wouldnt be perfect, but after shepard puts anderson's nameplate on the wall, then shepard looks at liara, and then it cuts to the romance scene of them in bed, or the mindspace thing on earth. 


And as for FemShep/Liara..every other romance just dosent do it for me. I've tried..but i always go back to Liara. theres just something about her. and i feel her romance scenes mean a lot more. 

Modifié par srsparky32, 30 mars 2013 - 09:33 .

[ZLurps]

AVPen wrote...

In case people are curious about what video MrFob is referencing, here's a link: Leviathan AI = Harbinger
(specifically, 0:47 and 3:25 of the video)

MrFob wrote...

@AVPen: I also had a look at your video, which you linked a couple of pages ago. Great work on the editing there. I do think however that giving Harbinger the supreme role amongst the reapers is not really that much better than giving it to the star kid. While I always interpreted Harby to have an elevated role amongst the reapers, just like Sovereign (at least from the perceptive of the organics), I rather like the idea that in the end, all reaper capital ships are almost equal (or at least comparable) in their abilities. As Sovereign says: "We are each a nation, independent, free of all weakness." I think giving them a master mind or a supreme ruler or whatever, diminishes them, be that Harbinger or the catalyst or whoever.

For me, removing the Catalyst from the plot (which I'm also doing in my Fanedit Series project) is a big improvement to ME3's story, but doing so raises a central plothole in my mind: "Whatever happened to the AI that created the Reapers and started the cycle?"

In both the Thessia mission and Leviathan DLC, it is brought up that there is/was a central intelligence responsible for the cycle of Harvesting, but now without the Catalyst present at the end, the references to an AI that created the Reapers brings too many questions to my mind to be resolved simply by "head-cannoning" an explanation as to the AI's fate. In contrast, rewriting that the AI became the 1st Reaper manages to give a lot more menace and explanation to Habringer's role in the Mass Effect story (including its power/control over the Collectors and its presence in the Arrival DLC), especially with it's new dialogue at the London Conduit sequence now.

(additionally, I think Harbinger being the central force behind the Reapers also serves as a good reason why the Reaper on Rannoch would specifically mentions Harbinger by name to Shepard..... as opposed to a throwaway line written soley to remind fans that Harbinger still actually exists in the story, but doesn't do jack.... <_< )

At least in our project, optional lore pack for MEHEM, we foud a way around that. Don't want to spoil, but I think what we came up isn't half bad.

[MrFob]

@AVPen: Yea, I see where you are coming from but still, I don't really see a plot hole. I just played through Thessia and all they are talking about are inferences, made by the protheans. There is nothing concrete there and they actually make a point in emphasising that. I think at the moment, MEHEM works with all possible interpretations, mine, yours and even one where the catalyst still is an intelligence in some way.

@srsparky32: It's theoretically possible to mod an ending like you describe (apart from repeating the romance scene somehow which would cause considerable problems) but it wouldn't fit very well with MEHEM at the moment. Would have to be something completely different.
Just one comment though: I never got what exactly in Synthesis makes EDI "more human" than before. She says in the end "I am alive". You know how often she already said that throughout the game? There are like 10 different moments when she realises that suddenly, she feels really alive (Just go through her conversation at Hammer's FOB before the final attack if you want an example). I thought it got really old at some point.

@Bierwichtel: Not sure if I can manage to get an additional slide in there. It's tricky because the timing calculations the game does for the slides are rather complex and I could easily create a lot of bugs this way. If I can do it though, a Joker & EDI slide are a nice idea. Will keep it in mind.

[Bierwichtel]

MrFob wrote...

@AVPen: Yea, I see where you are coming from but still, I don't really see a plot hole. I just played through Thessia and all they are talking about are inferences, made by the protheans. There is nothing concrete there and they actually make a point in emphasising that. I think at the moment, MEHEM works with all possible interpretations, mine, yours and even one where the catalyst still is an intelligence in some way.

@srsparky32: It's theoretically possible to mod an ending like you describe (apart from repeating the romance scene somehow which would cause considerable problems) but it wouldn't fit very well with MEHEM at the moment. Would have to be something completely different.
Just one comment though: I never got what exactly in Synthesis makes EDI "more human" than before. She says in the end "I am alive". You know how often she already said that throughout the game? There are like 10 different moments when she realises that suddenly, she feels really alive (Just go through her conversation at Hammer's FOB before the final attack if you want an example). I thought it got really old at some point.

@Bierwichtel: Not sure if I can manage to get an additional slide in there. It's tricky because the timing calculations the game does for the slides are rather complex and I could easily create a lot of bugs this way. If I can do it though, a Joker & EDI slide are a nice idea. Will keep it in mind.

maybe something like this? http://fc06.devianta...sey-d5qb70j.jpg

Modifié par Bierwichtel, 30 mars 2013 - 10:24 .

[CommanderVyse]

I agree with MrFob. EDI's conversation on Earth proved she was alive. Just as Legion's sacrifice proved that he had a soul. EDI and Legion achieved this because of their own thoughts and actions, not because they got shot with some space magic.

[Dr_Extrem]

edi does not Need reaper Upgrades to be alive.

she already is. every dialogue after unshackling her proves that. she is a new lifeform and makes "babysteps" to become more and more "human". that is in fact a natural process.


people say, that she is not really alive, because she only "imitates" feelings and other processes. she does things, that give her possitive feedback - but tbh ... we are doing the same thing. we do things we like and we like them, because we get possitive feedback. its the same thing.

if we reduce feelings and emotions, they boils down to biochemical processes and neurotransmitters. this is not very different from edis quantum blue box.

[ruggly]

Synthesis actually ruins ME for me, saying that EDI and the Geth are not alive until they're "human," and that's the only way that we'll ever get along. That's not racist at all. So you're going to violate every single sentient being in the galaxy for the 1% of the galaxy that we do know. Sweet. You can't force peace and understanding.  Anti-synthetic groups exist; if their beliefs changed after the love beam, then you brainwashed them, and that's not Kosher.

Modifié par ruggly, 30 mars 2013 - 01:05 .

[Getorex]

iakus wrote...

Getorex wrote...
Leviathon turned out to be pointless.  A fun and interesting DLC but illogical and pointless to the overall game.  You go to "recruit" the Leviathon(s).  So where are they after the DLC?  They aren't in the fleet attacking the Reapers around Earth.  They make no appearance at all after the DLC.  Some "war asset".  Next is the illogic:  they are "Reaper killers".  They do it with a mere thought...so why were they crushed so long ago if it was so easy?  All they had to do was "think" the Reapers away and POOF!  They're done.  They kill Reapers so easily that there is no need for a crucible at all.  Just get the Leviathons out of bed and point them at the giant space bed bugs.  No, they are LOSERS.  They built an AI that killed them while the Quarians and humans manage to build AIs that have no beef against their creators at all.  The Geth were 100% against wiping out the Quarians...until a Reaper came along and FORCED a subset (the "Heretics") to do what they wouldn't do naturally.  Then there's EDI by the humans.  Not only does she not want to turn on her creators, no, she wants to have a romantic relationship with one of her creators!  The Leviathons clearly didn't know how to make AIs properly.  The idiots.

Leviathan gave Ash more lines.

Totally worth it 

Excellent.  I am currently doing a new run of ME3 with the intention of getting Ash back on the crew as soon as I can.  It is annoying how you get her at the very beginning, lose her just as swiftly, and cannot get her back until WELL into the game.  I'm trying to get the Tchanka genophage mission done as soon as possible while minimizing the hit to "war assets" just so I can get her on my squad at the earliest opportunity.  If you set off the Citadel coup mission too soon you lose a bunch of the inane fetch quests for the Citadel, losing war assets.  You need to find a banner here, a book there, all obviously important "asset".  WWI and II both hung on finding a good book for some big general to read for the wars to be won.

You know, we got shafted wrt Ash in ME2 (a quick show-up on Horizon where she kicks Shep in the nuts and leaves) and then again here in ME3.  The ONE character, out of all the main and original characters that gets special treatment is Liara.  They push pretty hard to get you to go with her as an LI in ME1, do it again in ME2 via LotSB where you can start up with her there.  They give her to you early in ME3 and she is on the crew the entire game.  She is the one character you cannot kill (get killed) until the VERY end IF you take her with you on the beam run on Earth and have low EMS.  You can not recruit Garrus in ME1 and thus leave him off there or you can get him killed in ME2 (don't do his loyalty mission), and can get him killed in ME3 in the beam run.  Ash (or her loser alternate Kaidan) can be killed in ME1, and you have a direct chance to kill her in ME3 (Citadel coup) AND again in the beam run.  Wrex?  Can kill him in ME1.  Tali?  You can kill her off in ME2 or get her to commit suicide in ME3.  The only one who is unkillable (virtually) is Liara.

[Getorex]

MEHEM w/destroy is the optimal ending. Not synthesis, not control. You eliminate the giant bed bugs that have been wiping away all advanced life for millions of years, you save everyone else, including the Geth and EDI. There's no downside. Destroy/stop the reapers has been Shepard's goal since ME1. To suddenly have a change of heart at the very end and hold hands with them is puke-worthy.

[Chashan]

srsparky32 wrote...

quick question...i have a femshep and i did synthesis ending with the extended cut.. everything was absolutely perfect (edi was happy, joker was with her, krogan were having babies and rebuilding, reapers were helping rebuild, etc..) BUT liara remained sad and alone.. Will this enable my shepard to be with her again physically? like the video with femshep and garrus.


also a suggestion..keep the synthesis ending but make it so that shepard survives that would be the ultimate ending. 

To be had, I understand quite well where you are coming from here.

Green was the first pill I swallowed way back when pre-EC - and since my Shepardess looked like Traynor's sis from a distance I actually thought it was her stepping out of the wrecked Normandy...


Given the amounts of space-magicks already involved with Green - Director's Cut actually made things worse with trying to "explain" it via techno-babble, far as I am concerned - letting Shepard rematerialize really doesn't require that much of a leap any more.

Course, all part of a different project altogether. Maybe approaching people that are somewhat okay with EC yet still have quite distinct problems with it to come up with a more satisfying scenario may be in order. Even people who openly advocate Green got their problems with how the symbolism-bat is swung in the vanilla-finale, after all...

Modifié par Chashan, 30 mars 2013 - 04:09 .

[Xamufam]

Modifié par Troxa, 30 mars 2013 - 04:58 .

[srsparky32]

It wasnt so much the synthesis ending i wanted to go with, it was mostly the visuals i was after. i really wanted to see joker be with EDI, thats why i took synthesis. the only bad thing about synthesis is that shepard dies so thats why i installed this mod so that everyone can be happy. i realize edi did survive in MEHEM, but you dont get to see it, which is the main thing i'm after.  that, and my femshep and liara should have a little more than a hug after shepard saves the galaxy. (but i know how hard it is to make a mod like MEHEM, and it was well done, but these are just my feelings)

also regarding EDI as human..i was mostly meaning after she steps off the ship and smiles. and then feels sadness when liara puts my name on the wall. before, you never saw any facial expressions from her save from a very small smile here and there.

Also, while the Reapers were pretty bad, imagine the galaxy with an alliance with them. without the indoctrination and all that stuff thats bad for you. I know it undermines the whole thing shepard worked for, but...

Modifié par srsparky32, 30 mars 2013 - 05:33 .

[Iakus]

srsparky32 wrote...

It wasnt so much the synthesis ending i wanted to go with, it was mostly the visuals i was after. i really wanted to see joker be with EDI, thats why i took synthesis. the only bad thing about synthesis is that shepard dies so thats why i installed this mod so that everyone can be happy. i realize edi did survive in MEHEM, but you dont get to see it, which is the main thing i'm after.

also regarding EDI as human..i was mostly meaning after she steps off the ship and smiles. and then feels sadness when liara puts my name on the wall. before, you never saw any facial expressions from her save from a very small smile here and there.

Well, in MEHEM, EDI does stand with the others in the crowd, along with Joker.  You don't see them smiling (no one is, really) but they're alive, and together, so that's something.

[Grzelu]

The first time I finished Mass Effect 3 with MEHEM. Previous experience of the original endings were not optimistic the game going again. But what I saw today and what I felt: epic. Pure epic. You have done a great job. Malukah song gave the atmosphere of the game. Thank you for the fact that Shepard's story ended as it should end up.
You're with me all the beer.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Bierwichtel wrote...

srsparky32 wrote...

SiriusXI wrote...

srsparky32 wrote...

quick question...i have a femshep and i did synthesis ending with the extended cut.. everything was absolutely perfect (edi was happy, joker was with her, krogan were having babies and rebuilding, reapers were helping rebuild, etc..) BUT liara remained sad and alone.. Will this enable my shepard to be with her again physically? like the video with femshep and garrus.


also a suggestion..keep the synthesis ending but make it so that shepard survives that would be the ultimate ending. 

That would make no sense. For synthesis to work, you need the catalyst's explanation why the reapers are his solution and are, actually, misunderstood heros (). Without this (flawed and stupid) explanation, MEHEM using synthesis would make even less sense than the original endings.

i know it makes no sense, but in my eyes its the perfect ending. everybody survives, nobody dies, and my femshep gets reunited with liara. maybe i will just do synthesis ending again and then do the romance scene with liara and call that my own personal ending to the game. 

the reunion does work with every LI as of v0.3...

in MEHEM EDI does survive, as well...

Didn't the clone shut down EDI? Then they rebooted EDI when they took back the Normandy? It seemed like only a small portion of EDI was residing in the sexbot running on battery power (bad pun). So if Shepard had a brain, and I know Mac was having a slow brain day, wouldn't Shepard have used the communicator that was working about 5 minutes earlier to contact the Normandy and tell them to shut down EDI in the other destroy ending anyway? EDI survives. Only the sexbot croaks, and there's more sexbots at Cronos, so no problem there -- the only difference between synthetics and organics is the uploading of software. Organics take a lot longer. I can't believe that wave seeks out anything other than reaper code.

So MEHEM sends the reapers to hell, saves the Geth (if you saved the Geth or made peace -- if not? oh well), and EDI, we come out big goddamned heroes. and I get to see Liara again.