7347 réponses à ce sujet

[CaIIisto]

The PE goodbyes are fairly hollow compared to the respective scenes in the Citadel DLC anyway. I know which resonated more emotionally with me, and it wasn't the PE scenes.

Shepard living doesn't cheapen anything for me, especially considering that she lives in my High EMS destroy ending anyway. The only difference that the MEHEM makes is that I get to see Shepard's survival rather than having to headcanon it. Oh, and of course no Starbrat, which is always full of win.

[Bierwichtel]

Shepard does not even fulfill the requirements of "tragic hero", rendering the whole argument over the supposed "diminished impact" of Shepard's survival moot in the first place.

in this case, a "tragic hero" does sacrifice their life, because it is the right thing to do AND they have no more reason to fight...

Shepard has lots of reasons, love, friendship, career, a chance to see the galaxy's inhabitants mature even more... yaddayaddayadda...

if you are interested in something really tragic, please read/play "I have no mouth and I must scream"... Harlan Ellison, anyone?

[Saito404]

MrFob wrote...
@Saito404: Did I read this right, you got to the non-hug scene with an Ashley romance? Ah crap, so the bug goes in both directions. I was hoping it would only be an issue for Miri/Jack/non romancers. Please let me know who your romance was for that playthrough. Cheers! Also, to everyone, if anyone encountered the no-hug memorial with an LI that is on the Normandy at the time, please let me know.

As I said, I reloaded the save and all worked fine, with hug.

[McBlade223]

Valentyn299 wrote...

I feel like the ending has much less impact if shepard survives. Without
his sacrifice it's just another plain, vanilla version of "the hero
saves the day and lives and everyone is happy and then they all have
cake, the end" kind of story; of which we've seen far too much. I
honestly do not see why people dislike the original, even un "extended"
version. Was it so hard to grasp that they had to release a DLC that
held your hand for it? The synthetic ending especially awestruck me. The subtle likening of EDI and Joker to Adam and Eve of a new world was fantastic. But hey, to each their own.

    I understand your point of view, but I have to respectfully disagree. I wouldn't mind a bittersweet ending, in fact I was totally prepared for Shepard to die at the end saving the galaxy. I was kinda expecting it since Bioware said they are closing his story. (My canon Dragon Age Origins ending is my warden sacrificing himself against the arch-demon, (wipes away tear)). But, instead we get an ending that's filled with many plotholes and headscratchers. As someone told me, its almost as if a different writing team that has never played Mass Effect or read the books was hired to write the last ten minutes. For example, on my first playthrough I watched the relays be destroyed by the crucibles beam. After having already playing Arrival, I knew what would happen if a relay exploded. So when I saw that happen, my first thought was, "great, I just finished the work for the reapers by killing the whole galaxy." So in the end, I felt like the reapers still won.

    I'm sure many of you guys will agree with me in that I always thought of the Mass Effect games as being all about unity, friendship, character, and defying the odds no matter how much stacked they are against us. So in ME3, I was expecting the same thing but instead it turned out to be all about synthetics vs. organics and that they can't coexist. (Even though I brokered a peace between the geth and the quarians.) A complete 180. Me being an avid reader of many novels (love to read ) I have not come across an author that introduces a new character or a plot change at the very end of the book. It would make no sense to do so. Now the EC did make things better, but still imo still left many other plot holes. I was hoping the normandy would fire my thanix cannon at Harbinger when it came down, but I guess the weapons systems were offline......? And then Harbinger not firing at the Normandy? (shrugs) Oh well.
         
     If this mod didn't exist, my ending would have been refusal since what shepard says to the starkid is EXACTLY what my shepard would say. We won't submit or back down, we'll keep fighting. To bad we can't incorporate that speech into future versions of MEHEM.....or can we?

    And as far as happy endings, I'll just reiterate what one of my friends told me. "Real life is full of crap happening to us everyday, no need to put that into a video game when for an hour or 2 we can feel like a hero."  

[CommanderVyse]

McBlade223 wrote...

    I'm sure many of you guys will agree with me in that I always thought of the Mass Effect games as being all about unity, friendship, character, and defying the odds no matter how much stacked they are against us.

This exactly.

[Xamufam]

There was an ending that would have made sense but they threw it away early in the development of me 3

Dark Energy Plot:


"The Reapers' goal was to find a way to stop the spread of Dark Energy which would eventually consume everything. That's why there was so much foreshadowing about Dark Energy in ME2.

The Reapers as a whole were 'nations' of people who had fused together in the most horrific way possible to help find a way to stop the spread of the Dark Energy. The real reason for the Human Reaper was supposed to be the Reapers saving throw because they had run out of time. Humanity in Mass Effect is supposedly unique because of it's genetic diversity and represented the universe's best chance at stopping Dark Energy's spread.

The original final choice was going to be "Kill the Reapers and put your faith in the races of the galaxy in finding another way to stop the spread with what little time is left" or "Sacrifice humanity, allowing them to be horrifically processed in hopes that the end result will justify the means."
I have no idea why they threw it away

rumors suggesting that ME3 was supposed to be all about
dark energy. As you might know, most of the universe is based on dark
matter. In the Mass Effect universe, biotics and space travel manipulate
the dark energy to function. This is causing all kinds of bad things,
and will eventually cause the universe to impolde. Well, the Reapers
know this, and they've established the Mass Relays and the Cycle to
cleanse the universe every 50.000, so that people won't ruin it forever.
Remember that sun on Haestrom that was going super nova during Tali's
recruitment mission in ME2? Yup, that would happen everywhere if not for
the reapers.

Modifié par Troxa, 03 avril 2013 - 04:53 .

[Bierwichtel]

Troxa wrote...

There was an ending that would have made sense but they threw it away early in the development of me 3

Dark Energy Plot:


"The Reapers' goal was to find a way to stop the spread of Dark Energy which would eventually consume everything. That's why there was so much foreshadowing about Dark Energy in ME2.

The Reapers as a whole were 'nations' of people who had fused together in the most horrific way possible to help find a way to stop the spread of the Dark Energy. The real reason for the Human Reaper was supposed to be the Reapers saving throw because they had run out of time. Humanity in Mass Effect is supposedly unique because of it's genetic diversity and represented the universe's best chance at stopping Dark Energy's spread.

The original final choice was going to be "Kill the Reapers and put your faith in the races of the galaxy in finding another way to stop the spread with what little time is left" or "Sacrifice humanity, allowing them to be horrifically processed in hopes that the end result will justify the means."

it was meant to be does the end justify the means, have no idea why they threw it away

rumors suggesting that ME3 was supposed to be all about
dark energy. As you might know, most of the universe is based on dark
matter. In the Mass Effect universe, biotics and space travel manipulate
the dark energy to function. This is causing all kinds of bad things,
and will eventually cause the universe to impolde. Well, the Reapers
know this, and they've established the Mass Relays and the Cycle to
cleanse the universe every 50.000, so that people won't ruin it forever.
Remember that sun on Haestrom that was going super nova during Tali's
recruitment mission in ME2? Yup, that would happen everywhere if not for
the reapers.

sadly this idea was heavily flawed as well, if the universe gets destroyed by the use of dark matter (energy) then why build the relay network in the first place?

it just changes the meme to "Hey we heard you don't want to blow up the universe by using dark energy. So we made sure you develop to be dependant on dark energy."

Sorry, just as ill-conceived... maybe, if Drew had been given the chance to develop his idea it would have turn out differently, but as it stands now...

problem is, that they made a huge mistake from the get-go... not knowing where they wanted to go...

[Xamufam]

Bierwichtel wrote...

Troxa wrote...

There was an ending that would have made sense but they threw it away early in the development of me 3

Dark Energy Plot:


"The Reapers' goal was to find a way to stop the spread of Dark Energy which would eventually consume everything. That's why there was so much foreshadowing about Dark Energy in ME2.

The Reapers as a whole were 'nations' of people who had fused together in the most horrific way possible to help find a way to stop the spread of the Dark Energy. The real reason for the Human Reaper was supposed to be the Reapers saving throw because they had run out of time. Humanity in Mass Effect is supposedly unique because of it's genetic diversity and represented the universe's best chance at stopping Dark Energy's spread.

The original final choice was going to be "Kill the Reapers and put your faith in the races of the galaxy in finding another way to stop the spread with what little time is left" or "Sacrifice humanity, allowing them to be horrifically processed in hopes that the end result will justify the means."

it was meant to be does the end justify the means, have no idea why they threw it away

rumors suggesting that ME3 was supposed to be all about
dark energy. As you might know, most of the universe is based on dark
matter. In the Mass Effect universe, biotics and space travel manipulate
the dark energy to function. This is causing all kinds of bad things,
and will eventually cause the universe to impolde. Well, the Reapers
know this, and they've established the Mass Relays and the Cycle to
cleanse the universe every 50.000, so that people won't ruin it forever.
Remember that sun on Haestrom that was going super nova during Tali's
recruitment mission in ME2? Yup, that would happen everywhere if not for
the reapers.

sadly this idea was heavily flawed as well, if the universe gets destroyed by the use of dark matter (energy) then why build the relay network in the first place?

it just changes the meme to "Hey we heard you don't want to blow up the universe by using dark energy. So we made sure you develop to be dependant on dark energy."

Sorry, just as ill-conceived... maybe, if Drew had been given the chance to develop his idea it would have turn out differently, but as it stands now...

problem is, that they made a huge mistake from the get-go... not knowing where they wanted to go...

true, maybe 1 billion year is too long to solve it

the reapers wanted a permanent solution so they wanted to speed up
the advancement of the races when they came to the level they were
harvested

The Dark Energy was a force that was going to consume everything. According to Karpyshyn, "The
Reapers as a whole were 'nations' of people who had fused together in
the most horrific way possible to help find a way to stop the spread of
the Dark Energy. The real reason for the Human Reaper was supposed to be
the Reapers saving throw because they had run out of time. Humanity in
Mass Effect is supposedly unique because of its genetic diversity and
represented the universe's best chance at stopping Dark Energy's
spread."

Modifié par Troxa, 03 avril 2013 - 05:16 .

[Getorex]

Just a nit. Dark energy has nothing to do with dark matter. The un iverse is about 68% dark energy. The rest is mostly dark matter followed by normal matter (normal for us but far from the norm overall).

[Iakus]

For myself, the motives of the Reapers has never been a high priority for me. One reason I prefer MEHEM over MEEM. If the Reapers are convinced killing us all is for the best, does it matter why?

Ant.

Boot.

[Bierwichtel]

I found the Reapers a lot more interesting, when I did not really know anything about them...

that little "argument" with Sovy in ME was brill... imho... it still somewhat embodied the idea of cosmicism... H.P. was a frikkin' genius for all I care... his mindset and his attitude towards humanity ironically mirrors mine...

[Getorex]

For more modding pleasure, there is a nice mod that recovers the lost (taken out for some unholy reason) dialog in the Ashley romance conversation in the Citadel where Shep makes the relationship final: http://social.biowar...1440/1#16454388

The dialog cuts in the original were small but enough to take some of the flow and "logic" out of that dialog. Take the file above and use Mass Effect 3 Explorer to replace the original, slap MEHEM on too, and you have an UBER good ME3.

[ZLurps]

MrFob wrote...

So, I finally finished my series playthrough. It took pretty much exactly one month to do it (playing A LOT more than I usually do) and it was awesome.

Having seen MEHEM in context for the first time, I have to say, I still prefer MEEM by far. Priority Earth is what it is and it sets a very bleak picture already. I can absolutely understand where e.g. Valentyn299 is coming from when he says "shepard surviving lowers the impact". I don't think it lowers the impact of the ending but it does lower the impact of the goodbye scenes with the characters in London IMO.
That said, I still think the way the original endings went with the star kjid is just wrong for the story. This experience has really consolidated my opinion that ME3 needed a variety of endings with different tones and moods for different players. But anyway, what's done is done.

During my 4th. playthrough I did the Citadel DLC right after Sanctuary mission and never continued, I just didn't felt there was any point.

There are many ways to see Priority:Earth. For me the downhill started from the end of Cronos mission and with my 3 complete play throughs it didn't get much better, though I found that leaving communication device on Firebase London alone helped the pace a little.

I can see what BW tried to do there, but it never worked for me. There is way too much put in too small space and it's like there aren't any sort of nuancens left anymore. So for me it appears so forced in one hand it start to feel almost comical and in other hand unnatural in not so funny way. Surreal effect gone awry.

Seeing the popularity of MEHEM, I don't think I'm the only one who thinks like that. Even MEHEM can't fix certain other things I have issues with, I think it really gives many players the experience they were looking for.

[Bierwichtel]

ZLurps wrote...

MrFob wrote...

So, I finally finished my series playthrough. It took pretty much exactly one month to do it (playing A LOT more than I usually do) and it was awesome.

Having seen MEHEM in context for the first time, I have to say, I still prefer MEEM by far. Priority Earth is what it is and it sets a very bleak picture already. I can absolutely understand where e.g. Valentyn299 is coming from when he says "shepard surviving lowers the impact". I don't think it lowers the impact of the ending but it does lower the impact of the goodbye scenes with the characters in London IMO.
That said, I still think the way the original endings went with the star kjid is just wrong for the story. This experience has really consolidated my opinion that ME3 needed a variety of endings with different tones and moods for different players. But anyway, what's done is done.

During my 4th. playthrough I did the Citadel DLC right after Sanctuary mission and never continued, I just didn't felt there was any point.

There are many ways to see Priority:Earth. For me the downhill started from the end of Cronos mission and with my 3 complete play throughs it didn't get much better, though I found that leaving communication device on Firebase London alone helped the pace a little.

I can see what BW tried to do there, but it never worked for me. There is way too much put in too small space and it's like there aren't any sort of nuancens left anymore. So for me it appears so forced in one hand it start to feel almost comical and in other hand unnatural in not so funny way. Surreal effect gone awry.

Seeing the popularity of MEHEM, I don't think I'm the only one who thinks like that. Even MEHEM can't fix certain other things I have issues with, I think it really gives many players the experience they were looking for.

agreed, Priority Earth lacked substance... at least to me it didn't feel like a nerve-racking final, victory at all cost, no looking back, always moving forward, mission... more like a gay, tourist-y jaunt through some old ruins... camera at the ready, capturing opportunities to bore the family at home...

[1973tiberius]

I wish to express my gratitude to those who have made and contributed to MEHEM.

When I first finished ME3, I was miserable for days.

I finished it again yesterday with MEHEM installed and I felt like I did as a kid in 1983, having just watched Return of the Jedi!

I am probably getting a bit old to be moved by a video game, but nothing has captured my imagination like the ME series and to my mind, MEHEM is the way it should always have ended. I can't praise your creation enough.

Many thanks.

[Ecrulis]

Bierwichtel wrote...

sadly this idea was heavily flawed as well, if the universe gets destroyed by the use of dark matter (energy) then why build the relay network in the first place?

it just changes the meme to "Hey we heard you don't want to blow up the universe by using dark energy. So we made sure you develop to be dependant on dark energy."

Sorry, just as ill-conceived... maybe, if Drew had been given the chance to develop his idea it would have turn out differently, but as it stands now...

problem is, that they made a huge mistake from the get-go... not knowing where they wanted to go...

True, while I love ME2 by itself I feel that by having almost nothing to do with the reapers themselves it was setting up some big problems for ME3 to fix in one game, I still feel ME2 should have been about the search for a solution to the potential reaper problem.

[Yoshimurha]

1973tiberius wrote...

I wish to express my gratitude to those who have made and contributed to MEHEM.

When I first finished ME3, I was miserable for days.

I am probably getting a bit old to be moved by a video game, but nothing has captured my imagination like the ME series and to my mind. I can't praise your creation enough.

Many thanks.

+1 with a little modification. 

To some people ME is just another game, but to others it's an compelling story with many difficult choices to make for some fictional characters you've come to care for. Right up until Priority Earth the series is bloody brilliant (yeah ok there are always flaws and plotholes here and there but in general).

I haven't seen the MEEM or such so I can't say much about them. But closure was what I was looking for. A way to say goodbye and thanks to Mass Effect and Shepard and preferrably with a smile and satisfactory feeling that I "accomplished" something even if it wont make no impact in my real life ofcourse. But yeah, closure is important to me and MHEM gave me that.

Great work! Staying tuned for a possible 0.4 in the future. 

[CommanderVyse]

Ecrulis wrote...

Bierwichtel wrote...

sadly this idea was heavily flawed as well, if the universe gets destroyed by the use of dark matter (energy) then why build the relay network in the first place?

it just changes the meme to "Hey we heard you don't want to blow up the universe by using dark energy. So we made sure you develop to be dependant on dark energy."

Sorry, just as ill-conceived... maybe, if Drew had been given the chance to develop his idea it would have turn out differently, but as it stands now...

problem is, that they made a huge mistake from the get-go... not knowing where they wanted to go...

True, while I love ME2 by itself I feel that by having almost nothing to do with the reapers themselves it was setting up some big problems for ME3 to fix in one game, I still feel ME2 should have been about the search for a solution to the potential reaper problem.

Like if the datapad that Joker shows Shepard at the end of ME2 has a blueprint of the Crucible on it?

[Getorex]

Ecrulis wrote...

Bierwichtel wrote...

sadly this idea was heavily flawed as well, if the universe gets destroyed by the use of dark matter (energy) then why build the relay network in the first place?

it just changes the meme to "Hey we heard you don't want to blow up the universe by using dark energy. So we made sure you develop to be dependant on dark energy."

Sorry, just as ill-conceived... maybe, if Drew had been given the chance to develop his idea it would have turn out differently, but as it stands now...

problem is, that they made a huge mistake from the get-go... not knowing where they wanted to go...

True, while I love ME2 by itself I feel that by having almost nothing to do with the reapers themselves it was setting up some big problems for ME3 to fix in one game, I still feel ME2 should have been about the search for a solution to the potential reaper problem.

Personally, I think they screwed up by zeroing in to a "trilogy".  There was no need to do wham (ME1), bam (ME2), and then thank you ma'am (ME3) like that.  They could have stretched this thing out a good bit more and only gotten back to the Reaper issue now and then, in a slow buildup to the finale.  The intervening games would have allowed for fleshing out a lot more of the universe and characters we get in the game.  We could have gotten a LOT more depth on the squad members, LIs, exploration.  Instead they went for the money shot right away. 

In the end, I saw no need to bring the Shepard story "to an end" just like that.  Why?  Just because?  Because...uh...trilogy?  There's no law of physics or even sociology that says "thou must stop at three!"

Modifié par Getorex, 03 avril 2013 - 09:46 .

[cfs3corsair]

hey got a (new?) idea for MEHEM
Kasumi's slide still shows her mourning for her lost memories. But since there is no more starbrat or AI's dying, why should her greybox be affected? Could we stick in another slide for Kasumi off DevianArt or something?? Because so far hers is the only one that ends on kind of a "huh?" (imo).

[Bierwichtel]

cfs3corsair wrote...

hey got a (new?) idea for MEHEM
Kasumi's slide still shows her mourning for her lost memories. But since there is no more starbrat or AI's dying, why should her greybox be affected? Could we stick in another slide for Kasumi off DevianArt or something?? Because so far hers is the only one that ends on kind of a "huh?" (imo).

quick grep, found this:
fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/050/0/9/kasumi_goto_by_brinx2-d5vim3k.jpg



just an example...

EDIT: or this:
sure-comma-knot.deviantart.com/art/Snooping-Around-Kasumi-Request-338898358

Modifié par Bierwichtel, 03 avril 2013 - 11:48 .

[MrFob]

About the dark energy plot: I think it does work rather well if you keep a layer between the fact of the plot and the audience. I tried that in MEEM by saying that the whole issue is not a certainty but a theory, derived by the creators who spent an insane amount of time and resources to get to this conclusion and have a ridiculous amount of corroborating observations. But in the end, it's up to the player to make up their mind and either believe the theory or not (and s/he'll have the opportunity to choose their actions accordingly). Also, I have no problem with the scientific inaccuracies because my understanding is that it's called "dark" matter and energy because today we have practically no idea what it is in the first place, apart from some cosmological theories (with an emphasis on the last word). It's the perfect black box to create a story around.
But I just realise I am going way off topic here so I should probably leave this alone. I'd be happy to continue the discussion in another thread though.

I do agree with Bierwichtel and the others that throughout the game, at least a persuasive Shep is not set up as a tragic hero at all and therefore should not die. As Bester76 said, it's probably more of a problem with the Priority Earth mission than anything else. Also, maybe, having seen the MEHEM ending about 5 gazillion times during testing cheapened the experience for me a little as well.

@McBlade: Yea, the refusal speech was a good one. Coincidentally, I got 2 pms yesterday from people asking the exact same thing (I always wonder if humanity - or at least BSN - has some subconscious hive mind. Just look how often 2-3 threads with almost the topic pop up within a matter of hours). I might get to use it somehow but I it'll probably be way out of context. We'll see.

@Saito404: Glad to hear it but that means that you did get to the wrong memorial scene with an Ashley romance once, right? Only reloading again fixed that? Sorry to bother you with this but it's important for me to know for bug fixing.

@Getorex: While I am ok with the trilogy format as such, I do agree that there was no reason to condense it down to that extent in ME3 (especially since they took it really slow in ME2). The whole trilogy has a pacing problem IMO. Also, when I first played through ME3, I was really surprised that they packed solutions for all the long lasting problems of the galaxy into that game. I certainly never expected to cure the genophage or to resolve the geth/quarian conflict. While those plot arks were extremely well executed, I have to question the decision of putting these solutions into the game. IMO, it took away from the grand feel of ME's backstory. The geth and the genophage were issues that were around for hundreds and thousands of years before humans showed up receptively and they really were none of our business. Solving the reaper thread was always the goal of Shepards ark but solving these issues along the way, I don't know. I'd have been perfectly happy to leave those for future instalments (or just leave them as imperfections in the grand social structure of the ME universe). But anyway, here I am going off topic again my own thread. I better stop now.

@cfs3corsair & Bierwichtel: Yea, I'd be totally up for a new Kasumi slide if anyone gives me a good one. I like that first one, Bierwichtel linked but I'd need something in landscape format and usually characters are not shown that close up in the slides.

Modifié par MrFob, 04 avril 2013 - 12:09 .

[Bierwichtel]

MrFob wrote...

@cfs3corsair & Bierwichtel: Yea, I'd be totally up for a new Kasumi slide if anyone gives me a good one. I like that first one, Bierwichtel linked but I'd need something in landscape format and usually characters are not shown that close up in the slides.

just give me the specs you need for the slides (don't know the process for making them)

will ask for support on deviant

it's basically a camera that movies over a still-image, right?

[creapsmantic]

Bierwichtel wrote...

MrFob wrote...

@cfs3corsair & Bierwichtel: Yea, I'd be totally up for a new Kasumi slide if anyone gives me a good one. I like that first one, Bierwichtel linked but I'd need something in landscape format and usually characters are not shown that close up in the slides.

just give me the specs you need for the slides (don't know the process for making them)

will ask for support on deviant

it's basically a camera that movies over a still-image, right?

no  ... just Find the best Kassumi  fan art you can  and  show him it  he will do the rest

[MrFob]

Yep, that's what it is. The videos are in 1270x820. Depending on how much moving or zooming you want to do, you might want a higher resolution for the image in use. That's all.
(In principle, you could use any video material really, just has to be the same length as the original slide. If you can pack an action movie into 4.5 seconds, that'd be fine as well from a technical perspective. )

But yea, as creapsmantic says, if you point me in the right direction, I am happy to do the rest.

Modifié par MrFob, 04 avril 2013 - 12:59 .