7343 réponses à ce sujet

[Reizo Ryuu]

No, but it is about discussing what the OP has made available, which is what the "disney" comments have been in reference to; on topic ;].

[Sable Rhapsody]

MegaSovereign wrote...

I personally don't think the decision chamber should have been removed. Without the exposition the Crucible feels like a Reaper off-switch. Not that it doesn't have the same problem with the current endings, but it feels like the problem is made worse by removing the choices altogether.

It would have been awesome if you found a way to replace the Catalyst model with Vendetta and maybe remove the Synthesis ending. That would have been my ideal ending.

Then I suggest you check out the alternate ending mod linked in the OP's signature.  That one preserves the Catalyst but changes its voice and restores the original dark energy plotline.

[Dr_Extrem]

ok reizo - i can understand your point. you have to consider, that this mod is still work in progress and that the autor is putting a lot of effort into it.
what do you want to see in this mod?

personal (shepard) sacrafice? for this mod, it is not possible, because it is made to show a different approach (especially) on the high ems destroy ending.

the outlook is still bleak - the relays are gone - repirable, but gone. the free people are in isolation and the death toll is staggering. that is also shown by the "space porn" and the other clips. the clips need work - maybe that can help.


by the way: shepard not getting a hug is out of the question! the peopla want this to see - not only implied. 




as a side note - if your ems is low, edi and the geth should die - not collecting enough assets should still have repercussions.

[Chashan]

Am I the only one whose game just got updated?

Update did replace the altered files outside of the EC, at least, so those were easy enough to replace - makes backups of those files mandatory, however. Not too certain about the EC-proper, it can still be opened via the explorer, and skimming through nothing got replaced there by the looks of it.

Would appreciate confirmation on whether or not the mod still works as is with newer updates, otherwise; as I mentioned before, I am still a ways away from the end-game, so I cannot see for myself just now.

Modifié par Chashan, 05 novembre 2012 - 09:11 .

[Redbelle]

Chashan wrote...

Am I the only one whose game just got updated?

Update did replace the altered files outside of the EC, at least, so those were easy enough to replace - makes backups of those files mandatory, however. Not too certain about the EC-proper, it can still be opened via the explorer, and skimming through nothing got replaced there by the looks of it.

Would appreciate confirmation on whether or not the mod still works as is with newer updates, otherwise; as I mentioned before, I am still a ways away from the end-game, so I cannot see for myself just now.

I just got an update too. Not sure what for but definitely ME3 related

[VintageUtti]

iakus wrote...

GrumpyGit wrote...

Finally got round to watching the vidoes... I am amazed at the work you have done and would say it was an improvement on the current ending... The bit where Shepard places Anderson's name on the wall was very well done. Keep up the good work! (This was what I was hoping Extended cut would be like.)

Indeed.  I don't even mind Shepard still all smashed up in that scene.  Lends an air to a hard-fought victory.  Heck I can even imagine Shep climbing out of a sick bed right after the medigel was applied to pay respects to his fallen mentor.

I just find the scene so incredible.  Shepard pays tribute to the past, then turns to embrace the future.  What better a conclusion could you ask for?

If the game had ended like this I would have loved it. Yeah, I still find the Earth missions and Anderson's plan to just run for the beam strategically ridiculous, but I would have loved at least the option for Shepard to fly off into the sunset at the end. Very good job, OP.

[Tonymac]

I must say, MrFob - quite impressive. I have commented in your other therad as well.

I love the work you did. Bioware should hire you.

Thank you for all of your effort. Its very good work - detailed - thought out - damn well done.

I'd like to see what you could have done with Bioware's rescources. The sky truly is the limit with all of the heart and soul that was put into ME3 - including your work.

[MrFob]

Well, I think discussing the contents and putting them in perspective is fair enough in this thread. Mod, please tell if you think otherwise.

Robhuzz wrote...

Mims wrote...

For me, the best part of this is removing the ghost child. Is it perfect? No. But until we can mod that scene better, I think its easier just to cut it. If the scene returns, my ideal situation would be to have it:

1. Not be a ghost child. Find some other mesh to represent it, and redo the voice acting. I just hate that kid. How awesome would it have been if it was the dead VS, or Saren? Or Harbinger holo?

2. Change the level design so its not just 'walk here' = ending choice. I hate the pick a door, any door scenario.

At least don't force Shepard to solve a nonexistent dilemma that the catalyst made up. He went up there to wipe out the Reapers, not solve the starchild's so called 'synthetics cannot live alongside organics' problem. If only they'd removed that ridiculous part and didn't portray the Reapers as slaves (seriously, you couldn't think of anything better bioware?), it would've been a heck of a lot better already. Still not perfect of course, a deus ex machina for an ending is never an option, ever.... but better at least.

I do agree. For myself, I just disliked the original endings, not because they are bleak and full of sacrifice, but because if you take some time to really think thing through (and like many people, I did so and discussed this for more than half a year now), they are just so full of logical fallacies.
This why for me personally, my first project, MEEM is the preferred way to do it. The conclusion is still sudden and convoluted and it still does not and cannot fix the issues with the general plot line but it preserves many aspects of the original ending while (trying to) remove the holes in logic and tie in better with earlier plot points.
That is something that MEHEM definitely ignores (on purpose because it focuses much more on the emotional aspect).
However, I do think Reizo is over-dramatising his point a little here. While the progression of events is changed, it's not like the original endings did give us really satisfactory exposure IMO (Catalyst: "You wouldn't know them and there is not enough time to explain" just as one example). Especially the destroy ending really is not explained at all.
The Disney aspect may be argued for or against, IMO, it doesn't really matter. The only thing I completely disagree with are some comments I have seen that say that this mod does not capture the essence of what Mass Effect is all about. IMO, it does not do worse than the original endings. Look at the ending of ME1 (if you saved the council), look at the ending of ME2 (if you saved your squad). The point is, you always had the option of reaching a really good and victorious conclusion if you chose to work for it. All you have to choose now is whether you want to install a mod or not. Not perfect, I know but there it is.
I do agree that multiple very different endings for different EMS score would be perfect (and that was what I expected before March), however, we are just not there yet. Maybe one day we will be.
As for the technical aspects, such as cuts, not seeing Shepard's rescue and things like that, you have to understand that we are dealing with enormous constraints here.

As for the game update, I won't be able to test anything until tonight (Australian time) but I'd suggest just going through the mod install process again and to try it. If it doesn't work, I'll upload a "hot-fix" as soon as I can.

[MaddaCheeb]

Shepard's default ending armor is the line with "Id=8" in the coalesced.bin under biogame>sfxgame>sfxplayercustomization>casualappearances. I'm pretty sure you can change the ID of what Shepard wears for the final scene through a small amount of coding and still have his face be bloodied.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Reizo Ryuu wrote...
It's not about who lives or dies...clearly, people die in disney movies too you know.
There is moreso a problem with the progression of events; with all the exposition removed, everything that happens after anderson dies just feels jumpy and rushed, and there is also a glaring lack of connection to any of the events portrayed especially cause the lack of exposition. Things just seem to happen for whatever reason.

So a bunch of ships blow up, but there really isn't any kind of attachment to any of it since it's just a bunch of faceless/nameless troops, expected casulties if you will.
Exactly the same kind of casulties that happened when sovereign was attacked, cept those casulties had a deeper meaning to them cause of the exposition beforehand (saren etc..) and the choices you had to make during the battle.
There is zero meaning to anything that happened in this ending after anderson died, cept to fill up time with some glorious space battle porn.

And then the entire shepard crew stand there in the normandy to which, aside from anderson's death, might as well be considered a 'flawless' victory. Their sadness is completely unique to them, because as players we've been living the wall of death, we've already dealt with all of the losses throughout all 3 games and thus without the exposition, no attachement can be felt to what has now become a fairly random cgi space battle scene.

The scene without exposition and choice is thus completely eclipsed by any impactful scene throughout all three games prior to the ending, which now amounts to nothing more than a "hey we won and stuff" climax.
These kinds of endings only happen when a writer is either incompetent or lazy, or in "disney" movies ;] (which is also clearly an unfair assesment and should be taken as a hyperbole, because there are plenty of excellent and well written disney movies).

I wasn't the one who originally used the term Disney, I merely ran witht he hyperbole, the notion implied by it is that the ending is too happy and easy to achieve, that is what I was commenting on.

To your other point, I wouldn't say them being nameless and faceless is ineffective, for me there is no lack of connection, stopping the Reapers has been the focus of the journey, we finally do it through a united effort as depicted by the space battle scenes, part of that united effort is not leaving our comrades behind (in this case the shuttle scenes used to indicated that Shepard  got picked up from the Citadel before it blew) and the willingness to stand together. So brushing it off as space battle porn isn't fair in the least, just because it failed to resonate with you.

Second, and again this is from my perspective, there is an attachment to the faceless soldiers. Anderson's name being placed on the wall is a symbol of the untold stories of sacrifice and heroism that occured off screen during the wall. We keep hearing about it when we talk to EDI and Anderson and random people on the Citadel throughout the course of the game. We know what happend to Joker's sister and how it has effected at least on Asari, there are millions of stories like this that have yet to be told and shared. So no it's not a flawless victory and the sadness isn't unique to the crew of the Normandy it is something that will be felt throughout  the galaxy and that is something I can feel as a player.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 05 novembre 2012 - 10:34 .

[MrFob]

MaddaCheeb wrote...

Shepard's default ending armor is the line with "Id=8" in the coalesced.bin under biogame>sfxgame>sfxplayercustomization>casualappearances. I'm pretty sure you can change the ID of what Shepard wears for the final scene through a small amount of coding and still have his face be bloodied.

Thanks but unfortunately, it's not that easy. The memorial scene does not just put you back in the Normandy. It is a separate level, custom designed only for this scene and it belongs to a level structure call "End002". Inside that structure (which includes everything from the Shepard waking up after the laser hit to the star gazer), Shepard's look is globally set to what BW refers to as "injured mode". At first it seemed like I could just toggle that on and off but that didn't work. There is one scene in the control ending where we see Shep in armor without injuries but I checked into that yesterday and it turns out this uses a rather complicated way of doing it, which I probably can't easily replicate fr the memorial.
In any case, coalesced changes won't do it. They just set the variables for Shep on board the "normal" Normandy.
I think my best shot at this point is altering the materials themselves. I'll keep working on it.

[frypan]

What you've done here is fantastic MrFob. This mod has saved the series for me, and I look forward to seeing where you go in future.

I've tried youtube videos that remove the catalyst, but the end really needs to flow from within the game to have the right impact. The way you have structured a fitting battle scene fits with the idea of rewarding the player for firing the crucible, giving a sense of agency to the end where there is little positive agency at present (for some of us at least).

I also like how the planet scene has been removed. With the EC, unfortunately for all it tried to do, that scene has created a cluttered ending, with a crash scene that means little as it ends with the ship flying off anyway. Taking it out smooths the denouement considerably.

What you've added is really moving too. Apart from a funeral scene that allows Shpeherd and player to grieve together, the way you show the ship flying into the screen is a thematically suitable way for the story to end, evoking the various possibilties we want to consider for our individual Shepherd's futures.As for the hug - well done!

Thanks again for this. While I dont have the skills to help, I've been following some of the activity on MODDB and it is encouraging to see what you are doing. A few of us form the old "All Were Thematically Revolting" thread have formed a discussion group, and I will pass this onto them.

Also - you're a fellow Aussie? Cheers from Tassie!

[Falere]

Ok so i just played it and i wanted to thank you kindly, sir. You did the impossible, you made me come back to the game that i loved, but which i was sure i would never ever touch again. It reminded me how it used to make me feel and that made me tear up a little.

I'm not saying this is my perfect ending, that this is how i wanted it, all "unicorns-and-rainbows-and-sunset", how some of you claim. It's not about that. I was at peace with my Shepard's death. But i wanted it to make sense. For MY CHOICES to matter. Because this is what all of this comes down to: having a choice.

The starchild took away the most important thing there was in the entire game to me. It wanted to take away people's freedom of choice. And what was even more insulting, it claimed it was a way to "save them". Didnt you all just hate it when your family, friends, other people made decisions for you, "for your own good?" Thats not how we learn, that's not what makes us human. The entire point of living is making mistakes and learning from it. Experiencing.
But no, let's put pillows on the future generations' knees. Let's rob them of their freedom. Because they would create synthetics AGAIN and cause a war AGAIN. How awful.
Only that THIS WAS WHAT MADE THAT GAME FROM THE START. It visualized how different choices affect everything around us, what are the cosequences. But look where it finally took us - oh. Right. the entire galaxy UNITED. It would never happen otherwise. Aren't such moments really worth every single sacrifice that has been made? Taking away people's ability to make decisions for themselves is a mental slavery, no matter how beautiful and peaceful youre gonna picture it.

So, in short, i welcome with warm heart every alternative ending, that gets rid of this abomination. And this one made perfect sense, the events were logical. You gather all allies possible, your military strenght is at high level - "you win". Anderson opens the Citadel's arms before he dies. Joker contacts Shepard and sends help. Crucible does it's magic and wipes out the reapers. And they lived happily ever after. I buy it. So once again, thank you for all your hard work, i believe that now, when a new hope was given, people will join forces to improve it. And i'll be able to create a new Commander and relive the story once again. You have my eternal gratitude.

Modifié par Falere, 05 novembre 2012 - 11:44 .

[Errationatus]

 No offence meant to all the effort put in and all the obvious passion for the game behind it, BUT...

...why you do'n Bioware's job for them?

No wonder companies don't give a crap about quality anymore.

[Sable Rhapsody]

JakeMacDon wrote...

 No offence meant to all the effort put in and all the obvious passion for the game behind it, BUT...

...why you do'n Bioware's job for them?

No wonder companies don't give a crap about quality anymore.

Because they made it very clear after the EC they washed their hands of the ending, whether for good or ill.

Besides, it only fixes the problem on PC.  There's a reason why "just mod it" isn't a solution to bugs or gameplay problems either.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote...

 No offence meant to all the effort put in and all the obvious passion for the game behind it, BUT...

...why you do'n Bioware's job for them?

No wonder companies don't give a crap about quality anymore.

Because they made it very clear after the EC they washed their hands of the ending, whether for good or ill.

Besides, it only fixes the problem on PC.  There's a reason why "just mod it" isn't a solution to bugs or gameplay problems either.

This.

[Errationatus]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Because they made it very clear after the EC they washed their hands of the ending, whether for good or ill.

Granted, but it still gives the company a backhanded pass.

Besides, it only fixes the problem on PC.  There's a reason why "just mod it" isn't a solution to bugs or gameplay problems either.

Y'know, Bioware could fix it all themselves, if it weren't for the constant yelping and howling and venom spat every time they do anything.  I'm not defending Bioware, but I can understand the reluctance to change or fix anything if no matter what you do just ends up getting mindlessly sh@t on.  They have no real reason to give a crap any longer.  It's for the cash now, and why not? They gotta makes the moola.

Hell, I came up with - IMO - a logical and satisfying ending this afternoon that would require only a decent-sized DLC and a couple of cutscenes - and would give us a perfectly in-canon lore-friendly additional conventional ending that doesn't contradict anything in the games that couldn't be fixed with a minor tweak here and there.

Hell, among other things, it actually takes the Dark Energy bits in ME2 and has them make sense, be relevant and brings back Kal'Reegar.  Did it in an hour.  It can be done, but I haven't posted it for as likely a reason Bioware won't really "fix" anything:  BSN and the fans would crap all over it just to crap all over it, and it would get buried under the next welter of "Endings EA/Biosellout sux!1" threads.

But, hey, more power to the mod, sincerely.

It's better than nothing.

[BearlyHere]

crimzontearz wrote...

aaaand a FAN did what Bioware was unable or unwilling to do

wow....I do not have a PC but if I did I would totally download this and maybe play ME 3 again...
the fact THIS is needed to get not what we wanted but what is needed for some of us to actually be able to play the game again just makes me even more bitter toward Bioware

This. I was about done with Bioware after months of stonewalling and utter contempt, and I'm twice as done now. If I could play this on a console, it might just make me want to replay the series. 

[MrFob]

I made a To-Do-List. If you think you can help with any of these points or if you think I missed something in it, please contact me:

MEHEM To-Do-Lisst:

- Overall: Make it work with Leviathan and/or Omega (Will be done soon - waiting for Omega to do it)

- Anderson Death Scene: Suggestion: Put in the extended dialogue (Not sure if it is possible but it would be a nice thing to do)
- Shepard Joker conversation: Adapt subtitle IDs from Hackett to Joker (not sure how to atm)
- First video: Video and audio tweaking (I will do some but I could really use help on this one. If you are a good video editor and want to help, please let me know)
- Between videos: Remove pause (This may not be possible since the game is loading stuff in that pause)
- Between Videos: Remove pistol shot (As soon as I find the damn file, I'll do it, if someone finds it before me, let me know - I need the trigger file though, not the sound file)
- Between Videos: Remove Hackets Subtitle (Should be easy and should be done in the next version
- Second video: Video and audio tweaking (I will do some but I could really use help on this one. If you are a good video editor and want to help, please let me know)
- Both videos: Remove the IGN logo that shows up in two scenes (Sorry for that oversight, will be fixed in next version)
- Both videos: For some people, red borders seem to show around the videos some times (not sure what that is since I don't get that bug myself)
- Music timing: Right now, I have very limited control over the timing of the music, due to difficult encoding through Wwise soundbanks. It doesn't really show though, so it's low priority.
- Epilogue slides: A facebook user sent me a message and suggesting that - because we cannot put ME2LIs into the memorial scene, we could put Shepard into their slides. If someone with drawing/photoshop skills were able to make something good, I think it's a great idea.
- Memorial Scene: Fix Shepards animations to fit (I am on that one)
- Memorial Scenes: Fix Shepards armor (I am trying for now but this may come down to texture and mesh modding, which is not my strong point. Help appreciated.
- Memorial Scene: Suggestion: Fix Shepards face (Not sure how to do it yet, may come down to material modding. Also, not sure if I should, I think it may be enough to fix the armor)
- Memorial Scene: Take EDI from the wall (Easily done, consider it fixed in the next version)
- Memorial Scene: Suggestion: Put EDI in Javiks place (Easily done, just not sure yet if I should but I think I'll give it a try)
- Memorial Scene: Inappropriate Hugging (I have a plan for that but I am nnot sure if it will work, updates soon)
- Memorial Scene: Remove clipping issues (Changing Animations is hard, so the minor clipping may persist for quite a while. In the major cases (like Garrus), I want to try and avoid the hug altogether.
- Memorial Scene: Remove EDI subtitle ID during Hackett's VO (see above, may be difficult to do)

[Errationatus]

DirtyMouthSally wrote...

You're talking as if they're not selling a product.

Of course they're selling a product.  They could make even more if they actually catered to the fans.  They don't.  Why is that?

Their needs are not our concern, at least they aren't my concern.  Our needs on the other hand are their concern.  Describing "Yelping" and "howling" by the members as some justification or reluctance on their part is irrelevant at the end of the day, other than their bottom line.

Their bottom line is our wants - not "needs".  Many want a different ending.  Bioware would make a fvckton of money doing it.  They won't.  Why?  It has nothing to do with 'art'.  They'd get far more kudos if they just went, "Yeah, we like what we've done, but'cha know what?  We're flexible. We can see how this could actually work. Cool.  We made this, it's a little extra."  People would grumble, but fans can be a forgiving lot if they like what gets done, and it satisfies why they bought the damn game in the first place.

And they do have a reason to "give a crap".  They either make a product that sells well enough to keep them in business, or they go bankrupt.

Microtransactions in MP will keep them going for a lot longer than SP DLC. Why do you think they included MP in the first place?  As long as MP lives, SP can GFI.

If they can take the backlash without caving in, then more power to them, but it's their bottom line, not yours or mine.
To state the obvious.  

What's "obvious"? By 'bottom line' it is implied that they will milk the franchise for everything they can, "caving in" be damned. It's not about "corporate integrity" - there is no such beast.

BW and EA make far more money from MP than SP.  A couple more SP DLC isn't going to generate anywhere near the revenue MP will - especially since most fans "swear" they'll just watch it on the 'Tube.  If they could make and charge 20 bucks for a conventional ending DLC that ties up plot holes and gives fans a happy romantic ending with all LI's they'd make one helluva lotta cash. Fans would forgive them and all the horsecrap about the endings would become something they'd laugh about.  Satisfaction would reign.

That's the bottom line.

So why don't they do it?  Why are the fans doing it instead?

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 06 novembre 2012 - 03:14 .

[MrFob]

@JakeMcDon: I am not sure how this is relevant. I don't know why BW did what they did since they hardly talked to us since release. All they did say was that they apparently had no intention of touching the ending again.
So I didn't do their job, I tried to create a new interpretation of the ending, not as a cop out, or as an insult to them or to take anything away from them but as a genuine tribute to a great franchise. That's it, nothing more to it.

As for discussing BW's business models, please try to keep this thread on topic. Thanks.

Modifié par MrFob, 06 novembre 2012 - 03:54 .

[MrFob]

Tough to say. But yeah, I guess something like that. How quickly things go on from here depends on a lot of unknown variables though (see the to-do list) and on the help I can get in certain areas.

[Arxduke]

Still waiting for someone to post the mShenko version.

I guess I could always do it. But I would have to download an on-screen recording program like fraps. T_T