7348 réponses à ce sujet

[MrFob]

Yea, the lack of a citadel-crucible model is certainly the main obstacle. I had two ideas around that but I don't know enough to judge how feasible they really are:
1. Use scenes, made like in Reprisal. We already have the stage and everything. It would just require some character and model placement. I think we could make a scene where we see this view here only with Shep just being a lump on the ground that works for both genders and we see the shuttle fly in. Cut to the shuttle interior, showing the door opening and we just see a bloody hand grabbing the door frame as Shep is pulling himself inside (cut away before we see all of him/her of course). After that, we can see the shuttle leaving from the same viewpoint as before. No need for the citadel model at all.
2. I don't know how hard it would be to "fuse" 2 videos together, e.g. put a model of the shuttel into a video that is already existing and that shows the citadel/crucible already. I tried something like this with adobe after effects. Didn't really spend too much time on it though, I think something like this might work but as I said, I am not an expert at all so I can't say for sure.

EDIT: The model citadel is a good idea but it's in the wrong configuration (arms are all the way out at the point of the extraction) and I don't think there is an in-game model of the crucible at all. Also, it's probably pretty low res.

Modifié par MrFob, 19 novembre 2012 - 01:11 .

[CptData]

So, my current "easy" plan:

Old scene: reused Hackett's flag ship scene in MEHEM
Replaced by new CGI scene:
SSV Nuremberg appears on port side of SSV Normandy.
Nuremberg: "Normandy, this is Captain Fob of the SSV Nuremberg speaking. Preparing to send in extraction team for Commander Shepard."

New CGI scenes:
Kodiak launches from SSV Nuremberg.
Not sure if necessary to create new interior hangar scene.
Kodiak leaves Nuremberg, passing the Normandy.
Several Reaper drones attack the Nuremberg, badly damaging the ship.
Normandy destroys some reapers, providing covering fire for the Kodiak and the Nuremberg.

Reusing old scenes showing the Citadel/Crucible and heavy combat situation
Maybe adding some bits of new scenes to extend the space combat portion. Adding some radio chatter about the extraction mission of Captain Fob.

New CGI scene:
Kodiak returns to Normandy.
The Nuremberg burns, after losing her port engine.
Showing some escape pods???
Kodiak crashlands in the hangar of the Normandy.
That one is going to be a very difficult scene since someone needs to recreate the hangar interior.
The Nuremberg explodes, destroyed by a Reaper beam.
The Normandy escapes (reusing old CGI scene).

----------

Big issues so far: need to recreate Normandy hangar interior + Nuremberg hangar interior.

Any ideas?

Modifié par CptData, 19 novembre 2012 - 01:30 .

[CommanderVyse]

CptData wrote...

So, my current "easy" plan:

Old scene: reused Hackett's flag ship scene in MEHEM
Replaced by new CGI scene:
SSV Nuremberg appears on port side of SSV Normandy.
Nuremberg: "Normandy, this is Captain Fob of the SSV Nuremberg speaking. Preparing to send in extraction team for Commander Shepard."

New CGI scenes:
Kodiak launches from SSV Nuremberg.
Not sure if necessary to create new interior hangar scene.
Kodiak leaves Nuremberg, passing the Normandy.
Several Reaper drones attack the Nuremberg, badly damaging the ship.
Normandy destroys some reapers, providing covering fire for the Kodiak and the Nuremberg.

Reusing old scenes showing the Citadel/Crucible and heavy combat situation
Maybe adding some bits of new scenes to extend the space combat portion. Adding some radio chatter about the extraction mission of Captain Fob.

New CGI scene:
Kodiak returns to Normandy.
The Nuremberg burns, after losing her port engine.
Showing some escape pods???
Kodiak crashlands in the hangar of the Normandy.
That one is going to be a very difficult scene since someone needs to recreate the hangar interior.
The Nuremberg explodes, destroyed by a Reaper beam.
The Normandy escapes (reusing old CGI scene).

----------

Big issues so far: need to recreate Normandy hangar interior + Nuremberg hangar interior.

Any ideas?

I don't think Shepard would appreciate the crew of the Nuremberg dying for him/her. Could we avoid that ending?

[CptData]

Just throwing in ideas nothing more. ^^

[MrFob]

That is the "easy version?!?
Wow, if you could really pull off something like this, that would be beyond anything I ever imafined. I think t all depends on how well we can blend new and old scenes without a very visible change of quality. A few comments in that regard:
I think it's ok for us reuse old material for most of the scenes, especially since the mod is meant for high EMS. This is why I mostly used low EMS scenes for these videos in the first place because they won't be repetitions to what people just saw 1-2 hours earlier. Might be better to concentrate on some very short new ones and make those really good, so they blend in well with the old ones.

I'd also really like for the shuttle to come from the Normandy itself, instead of another alliance cruiser. While we cannot show squad mates in the rescue mission, I think it should at least be implied that it's Shepard's team that rescues him.

If the shuttle crash landing is one of the most challanging scenes, I would suggest just using the reversed Mars take off scene for the landing like I did in the current version of the vid. I think that actually worked pretty well, especially because you see the red light coming from outside (which is Mars) and right after that, you see the crucible lighting up in red as well, so that fits together.
I think this scenario would mix in very well with my post earlier, showing parts of the rescue from the angle of the control plattform itself (if that is feasible).

[N7 Lisbeth]

One thing I'd like to advise: Keep it simple.

Avoid expositions. Avoid huge directive changes and pocket stories/characters. (E.g., don't Mary-Sue characters into the game.) Keep the focus on Shepard and the crew of the Normandy. Anything else is a distraction.

While space battles are cool and all, I find them unnecessary for an ending mod. However, if you do want to add scenes, use the Normandy and its crew, or at least important characters from the game (ME3 crew, ME2 crew, TIM, Aria, Hackett, and Bailey) -- otherwise, less is more. To use a wonderful example, Koobismo's "Marauder Shields" comics does this skillfully. He uses characters we know and care about -- we want to know what happens to them. We don't really care about the Nuremberg, no offence.

On that topic, keeping it simple preserves the ending's pacing. There's a reason directors leave an hour of film on the cutting room floor when they get to post-production editing. That's to say, don't go overboard with side stories. Again, to utilise the previous example, things like that work for Koobismo's comic because it's outside of the game. It has a separate, external story and pacing it adheres to and isn't been appended to an existing ending movie.

To put it another way, adding too much fluff will alienate people. Keeping it simple guarantees a wider audience will enjoy it. Trust me, everyone appreciates all the work (you have no idea how much), but again, I'd like to suggest avoiding some of the things you're talking about (any reference to the Nuremberg, etc).

Lastly, I'm not here to say you "can't" use things like the Nuremberg, or huge expositions; it's your time and your interest, nothing wrong with that. It's meant to be fun, I get that. But if you do, I'd recommend making it a separate "fun" mod, an optional add-on package for MEHEM. As creators, I hope you remember your audience and put them first.

I hope you take this to heart. I realise this may be an unpopular post with some of you that are brainstorming -- don't misunderstand, I really enjoy the MEHEM mod and I don't want to see it fail its mission -- I'd not have said as much as I have otherwise.

Addendum: Considering how faithful JeanLuc's additions have been to the franchise throughout its amazing run, I have every confidence his addition to the medley will bring great things.

Modifié par N7 Lisbeth, 19 novembre 2012 - 05:56 .

[MrFob]

N7 Lisbeth wrote...
*snip*
I hope you take this to heart. I really enjoy the MEHEM mod and I don't want to see it fail its mission -- I'd not have said as much as I have otherwise.

I totally agree. That's why I am suggesting to keep it to the Normandy as much as possible. The shuttle rescue would be great to implement though because it is a missing peace in the current version.
The Nuremberg was really only a little joke I put in. There is no need to expand it's presence beyond that one line IMO.
BTW, the fact that the "Joker, we've got Shepard!" line is the same voice is just due to the fact that I couldn't find a proper line from an ME character who would surely still be alive. I meant the line for Traynor but I couldn't piece it together in her voice.

[N7 Lisbeth]

MrFob wrote...

I totally agree. That's why I am suggesting to keep it to the Normandy as much as possible. The shuttle rescue would be great to implement though because it is a missing peace in the current version.

The bulk of my previous post was directed to content that changes the ending, not the previous cutscenes (like the shuttle). There's lots of room to maneuver there. As others have pointed out in different threads, it doesn't make much sense to use the Normandy as they did, although I do worry about losing some existing scenes with the Normandy's crew in the process of its substitution with the shuttle. (We have so few spoken lines from Joker in the end, and losing them for a minor technical issue isn't worth the trade off, imo.) As you can see, my reservation is how it's handled, not the act itself.

I fully support changes providing they're focused on our proper cast and crew. Dazzle us. We want to be dazzled. Just do it with the characters we care about.

It's a shame we can't contact the real voice actors to record some lines to add into MEHEM. No doubt there are professional reasons or contract obligations that would prevent them, no matter how much they might want to. However I know I'd have donated money to pay their working fees.

Modifié par N7 Lisbeth, 19 novembre 2012 - 06:21 .

[spamtrash]

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

One thing I'd like to advise: Keep it simple.

Avoid expositions. Avoid huge directive changes and pocket stories/characters. (E.g., don't Mary-Sue characters into the game.) Keep the focus on Shepard and the crew of the Normandy. Anything else is a distraction.

While space battles are cool and all, I find them unnecessary for an ending mod. However, if you do want to add scenes, use the Normandy and its crew, or at least important characters from the game (ME3 crew, ME2 crew, TIM, Aria, Hackett, and Bailey) -- otherwise, less is more. To use a wonderful example, Koobismo's "Marauder Shields" comics does this skillfully. He uses characters we know and care about -- we want to know what happens to them. We don't really care about the Nuremberg, no offence.

On that topic, keeping it simple preserves the ending's pacing. There's a reason directors leave an hour of film on the cutting room floor when they get to post-production editing. That's to say, don't go overboard with side stories. Again, to utilise the previous example, things like that work for Koobismo's comic because it's outside of the game. It has a separate, external story and pacing it adheres to and isn't been appended to an existing ending movie.

To put it another way, adding too much fluff will alienate people. Keeping it simple guarantees a wider audience will enjoy it. Trust me, everyone appreciates all the work (you have no idea how much), but again, I'd like to suggest avoiding some of the things you're talking about (any reference to the Nuremberg, etc).

Lastly, I'm not here to say you "can't" use things like the Nuremberg, or huge expositions; it's your time and your interest, nothing wrong with that. It's meant to be fun, I get that. But if you do, I'd recommend making it a separate "fun" mod, an optional add-on package for MEHEM. As creators, I hope you remember your audience and put them first.

I hope you take this to heart. I realise this may be an unpopular post with some of you that are brainstorming -- don't misunderstand, I really enjoy the MEHEM mod and I don't want to see it fail its mission -- I'd not have said as much as I have otherwise.

Addendum: Considering how faithful JeanLuc's additions have been to the franchise throughout its amazing run, I have every confidence his addition to the medley will bring great things.

Some thoughts:


-I think the space battles work here since we spent most of the game building our fleet up in our EMS bar so getting to see our ships in action  (as best the mod can) is a real treat!

-Yeah we need more Bailey. At least some notion that he/the citadel survivors are alright. This is just a gnereal notion. not something that I think needs to be in the mod per se. It be nice (*looks at bioware*)

-I'm looking forward to the next update before I comment on pacing. I'll admit its a little wonky in places but overall good.

- I liked the Nuremberg appearance alot. Thought it did a good job symbolizing the fleet's loaylty to Shepard (going to rescue him), similiar to this mod's intention of "rescuing" Shepard as well. I'd keep it in there!

As I have stated before I LOVE this mod so everything I say/want to see in it is just extra. The big thing for me is just polishing it up (audio rebalance, voice synching, ign logos, etc) The reunion scene is all I ever wanted in the End so i'm a happy camper.

Another dream (probably a pipe one) is to get ME2 LIs on the normandy for the reunion. My maleshep needs his hug from Jack! Though from what I have gathered that may be close to impossible. But I heard there might be slides added to "add" ME2 LIs.

Thansk for reading my ramble. Keep up the wonderful work!

[Iakus]

MrFob wrote...

BTW, the fact that the "Joker, we've got Shepard!" line is the same voice is just due to the fact that I couldn't find a proper line from an ME character who would surely still be alive. I meant the line for Traynor but I couldn't piece it together in her voice.

That would have been really cool.  A pity the material wasn't available.  It must be tough to find proper lines given at this point in the story, Joker, Traynor, and EDI are pretty much the only ones left guaranteed to be alive (even if EDI is "killed" on Earth, she'd still exist as the Normandy AI, after all)

Well, unless we count minor characters like Adams, Westmoreland, and Campbell (the two war room guards) But I doubt there's enough lines to use them either.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

"1) Ok, that's not my fault (read in Han Solo's voice ). I didn't even change the epilogue scenes. I also definitely don't get those red borders on my system. Are you sure you didn't see these in the original as well?"

I got those red borders today actually. In the unmodded standard extended cut.

Unrelated: Is there an ETA on the next update? Just finished the game with the normal ending and it left a bad taste in my mouth.

[Sable Rhapsody]

PKchu wrote...

"1) Ok, that's not my fault (read in Han Solo's voice ). I didn't even change the epilogue scenes. I also definitely don't get those red borders on my system. Are you sure you didn't see these in the original as well?"

I got those red borders today actually. In the unmodded standard extended cut.

That's the first I've heard of it from anyone else.  Good to know that a) it's not the mod and I am not in fact going insane.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

I'm using Texmod and the FXAA injector tool. Do you? I also run the game in windowed borderless mode.

All I can think of that might cause an error.

EDIT: Looked at the youtube videos. Does this keep the stargazer scene? I hate that almost as much as the catalyst. >_>

Modifié par PKchu, 19 novembre 2012 - 08:39 .

[Alienmorph]

AVPen wrote...
Problem is, the Tali models that I have access to only have the top of Tali's "face" and crops the geometry of the bottom half off (her mouth, chin, neck, etc), so I can't simply work off of the Tali placeholder face which is what I originally intended to do... 

The placeholder face is the same for all femquarians, you can get the full face from Shala'Raan or Daro'Xen, or just from ME1 Tali. Sure, then you'll have to take away the cropped placeholder under Tali's helmet and replace it, but it's better than starting from scratch and you'd keep those few features of her face we've been able to almost-see so far.

[CptData]

@ MrFob: of course.

Well, if we can pull the stunt with the Normandy only, we don't need the SSV Nuremberg anymore. That also would remove several odd scenes - like the one with Joker and a clearly visible N7 soldier right behind him which is, for the audience, Shepard (at least the guys who had a male Shepard). I think that short scene is very irritating and might need to get removed or replaced by something else.

So if the Nuremberg is more or less a replacement for missing stuff of the Normandy, it should be quite easy to replace her.
If needed to create a hangar interior for the Normandy, we can use it twice: for the launching part and for the crashlanding scene.
I dunno what's possible, but maybe at a later stage of development and with proper tools we even could show squadmates moving to the Kodiak with the ingame engine. That's mostly scripted stuff, but as long as you can't add anything new from scratch, that's not possible.
As soon as it is, you can show Vega + LI (if Kaidan,Ashley,Liara) + Cortez (if alive) + two other crewmates. So if Shepard doesn't have a LI on board and Cortez died, at least Vega and two crewmates attempt to rescue him/her, Vega is piloting. With LI and Cortez, Cortez is the pilot and a squad of four tries to rescue Shepard.

As long as it's not possible, the assembly scene does not happen. Creating a basic scene showing Vega + two random squadmates is possible but incredible difficult via CGI, therefore "no".

----

That being said, new plan could be:
Hackett gives orders to retreat to rendevouz point.
Joker is disappointed "damnit!". Random squadmate says they need to go.
"No" Joker disobeys orders and steers the Normandy to the Citadel.
Normandy gets near Crucible/Citadel.
Kodiak launches with rescue team led by Vega
If you want to keep Captain Fob, we still need the Nuremberg 'though
CGI: Hangar launch / flight through combat zone

Next 30 - 60 seconds we still might need space combat to give the resuce team enough time to find and rescue Shepard. That's for you, N7 Lisbeth *g*
The team simply needs some time to rescue Shepard - the full job might take several minutes, but it's useless to show 20 minutes of space combat just to simulate that time.
So 30 - 60 seconds are more than enough, reusing mostly old scenes like the Turian cruiser getting cut in pieces by that Reaper destroyer, fighter pilot getting shot down etc.
All I'd like to do is to replace scenes used from ME2 since they don't fit that well

Kodiak returns under heavy fire and crashlands in Normandy's hangar.
Most likely the most difficult scene.
Normandy retreats.

So in fact most changes are the Kodiak + the hangar scenes while using re-using most of the old stuff.

[MrFob]

Unfortunately, I can't put the Joker+squad mate scene back in because of timing issues. So Joker would have to stay alone in the beginning.
Here is my idea:
Keep everything until the entry of the Nuremberg -> That entry could be a new scene since the old one has the nebula in the background.
After that, keep everything until Joker speaks to the N7 guy. Eventually, I'd like to try and replay this scene while I switch Shepards model there for one of these generic alliance guys. That way, there is no confusion about Shep.
Replace the shuttle-exits Normandy scene with a new one. (No need to show the hangar IMO, Vega can theoretically die in the beam run as well btw, as it is, it's even a stretch to put EDI in there)
Keep the old stuff up until the cruiser gets blown up (right before the loading pause).
New scene: We see the shuttle land from the interior citadel perspective
New scene: We see the shuttle interior side of the door opening and a bloody hand grab the door frame (both of these new scene would have to be made with the engine like e.g. Reprisal if that is possible)
Old stuff continues: Normandy against the Oculi (reaper fighters) (maybe replace the ME2 scenes with new or colour corrected ones)
Old stuff continues, we see the Turians being blown to bits and the fighter being shot and crash
New scene, we see the Kodiak leave the citadel, (again made like in reprisal)
old scene: Joker communicates with the rescue party
New scene: We see the shuttle fly through the battle and towards the normandy (this would replace the very short ME2 shuttle approach scene)
old scene: Joker's "come on"
Either new or old: We could keep the old landing scene or add a crash landing, dependent on how feasible that is
Old scenes, we see the hangar close up and the Normandy leaves.
From there on out, we are back with the old red ending.

That's how I'd imagine it in a perfect world. Of course, just an idea, open for discussion and input.

[CptData]

Hmmm, I just wonder where you still need the Nuremberg.
If we launch the Kodiak from the Normandy and bring it back to the Normandy, the Nuremberg is not really needed anymore. What to do with her in that case? Does she provide covering fire or something for the Kodiak and the Normandy?

New scene: we see the Kodiak from Citadel perspective.
Fine - who's creating that scene? We still need to create some kind of interior for the Citadel - maybe a hangar or something, so the Kodiak is shown.
Also: ingame or CGI?

The bloody-hand scene ... hmmm ... yeah, maybe. No idea on that.

Normandy vs Oculi: definitely stuff we need to replace, check.
Also destroyed Turian cruiser & shot down pilot is fine to me.

New scene: Kodiak leaves the Citadel.
Well, we still need a hangar for the Citadel, right?

New scene: Kodiak returns to the Normandy though a heavily contested combat zone.
The maybe easiest of the difficult scenes to create so far. Simulating a flight through a combat zone isn't that hard, and since I got all the models already, it shouldn't be impossible. I can try to create a draft version of that.

New scene: Kodiak crashlanding
Definitely a must have to show how close things are. Maybe the Kodiak got damaged by an oculus (engine damaged, whatever). Kinda difficult since we need to recreate the Normandy's hangar - well, and if we have to do that, we also can use it for the lauch scene earlier ^^

Yeah, pretty much so far. Most difficult scenes are those where somone has to recreate full interior scenes, especially the hangar of the Normandy.

[Sable Rhapsody]

PKchu wrote...

I'm using Texmod and the FXAA injector tool. Do you? I also run the game in windowed borderless mode.

All I can think of that might cause an error.

EDIT: Looked at the youtube videos. Does this keep the stargazer scene? I hate that almost as much as the catalyst. >_>

I do have Texmod but not FXAA.  I run the game in windowed borderless as well.  The mod does in fact keep the stargazer scene--talk about a waste of Buzz Aldrin, right?

[MrFob]

Well, the citadel stuff would be completely optional IF we COULD get the help of someone like Kootra. If we could do it, using the engine, it wouldn't be that hard because it's all built already. I would not suggest to try and make those scenes from scratch, that would probably not be feasible.

As for the Nuremberg: It's still somewhat needed because Hackett does give the retreat order and in order to have a big battle scene after that, we need to establish that part of the fleet stays to help.

In any case, what I wrote down above was sort of a "best case scenario" idea.

@Sable: Yea, I kept the star gazer on purpose. It's the best way to explain why we end up on the Normandy before the last mission again. Besides, I don't really dislike the scene, I am rather indifferent about it. Also, I do have some very small plans for it eventually.

Modifié par MrFob, 19 novembre 2012 - 12:37 .

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

PKchu wrote...

I'm using Texmod and the FXAA injector tool. Do you? I also run the game in windowed borderless mode.

All I can think of that might cause an error.

EDIT: Looked at the youtube videos. Does this keep the stargazer scene? I hate that almost as much as the catalyst. >_>

I do have Texmod but not FXAA.  I run the game in windowed borderless as well.  The mod does in fact keep the stargazer scene--talk about a waste of Buzz Aldrin, right?

Eh. I guess that's what Alt + F4 during the end credits is for. : V

I've just always dislied it on the basis of it feeling so out of place and weird that a character driven story ends a weird old man talking about Shepard like he's some mythical jesus figure, particular in endings where technology isn't blown up.

Of all the issues in the world, no biggie. But I wish it would just go to the main menu instead.

I'll try running the end later tonight in full screen and tell you if I get those red bars.

Modifié par PKchu, 19 novembre 2012 - 02:53 .

[Quething]

Hmn. Bloody hand would be tricky. Unless it's completely saturated with blood, which would look weird, you're going to see some skin and therefore skin color. It's also going to be clear what sex the hand belongs to unless it's seen from very far off. So you've locked in two things about Shepard that you can't guarantee will be true for any given player.

[AVPen]

Alienmorph wrote...

AVPen wrote...
Problem is, the Tali models that I have access to only have the top of Tali's "face" and crops the geometry of the bottom half off (her mouth, chin, neck, etc), so I can't simply work off of the Tali placeholder face which is what I originally intended to do... 

The placeholder face is the same for all femquarians, you can get the full face from Shala'Raan or Daro'Xen, or just from ME1 Tali. Sure, then you'll have to take away the cropped placeholder under Tali's helmet and replace it, but it's better than starting from scratch and you'd keep those few features of her face we've been able to almost-see so far.

.... Now why didn't I think of that? 
Goes off looking for a ME1 Tali or MP quarian model.... 

[Alienmorph]

Aaaand this is why is always useful having someone with discussa and share ideas and suggestions ^__^

[Dr_Extrem]

so .. before anything can be done, i suggest to set up a storyboard, timetable or at least a loose order of what happens.

[someone else]

spectating this thread (lacking any relevant talents or skills) - would only comment that watching this collaboration more or less self-assemble is at least as impressive as the mod itself - hats off.

PS why in the world BW doesn't support this - if only with access to tools, files, etc, is beyond belief. Couldn't they officially sanction this kind of effort? Have they ruled out an SDK?

Modifié par someone else, 19 novembre 2012 - 06:29 .