Sorry guys, I know this is all a rather interesting but I have to ask you to keep it on topic. The fan creation forums seem to be moderated a bit more lenient than the story boards but I'd hate to get this thread locked just before we reach the 3 digits. Cheers!
MEHEM - the Mass Effect (3) Happy Ending Mod - No more star kid, no more deaths and a reunion
Débuté par
MrFob
, nov. 03 2012 09:35
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#2452
Posté 14 février 2013 - 06:47
wavion
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You're right, of course. Sorry!
I've gone back and added a few relevant things to my last few posts.
I've gone back and added a few relevant things to my last few posts.
Modifié par wavion, 14 février 2013 - 07:08 .
#2453
Posté 14 février 2013 - 08:43
cfs3corsair
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On topic (I think anyway... feel free to correct me on that)
Is there any way whatsoever that bioware could be persuaded to let go of their modding tools? Because while MEHEM is great so far, and will continue to improve, I can imagine life would just be easier if they could release a few tools like they did with previous games. Dont get me wrong, the ME3 modding community have outdone themselves, the tools they created have abilities I didnt think possible
But Bioware's modding tools would be great to use imo...
Is there any way whatsoever that bioware could be persuaded to let go of their modding tools? Because while MEHEM is great so far, and will continue to improve, I can imagine life would just be easier if they could release a few tools like they did with previous games. Dont get me wrong, the ME3 modding community have outdone themselves, the tools they created have abilities I didnt think possible
But Bioware's modding tools would be great to use imo...
#2454
Posté 14 février 2013 - 10:30
CommanderVyse
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cfs3corsair wrote...
On topic (I think anyway... feel free to correct me on that)
Is there any way whatsoever that bioware could be persuaded to let go of their modding tools? Because while MEHEM is great so far, and will continue to improve, I can imagine life would just be easier if they could release a few tools like they did with previous games. Dont get me wrong, the ME3 modding community have outdone themselves, the tools they created have abilities I didnt think possible
I've seen posts from Bioware saying that since Mass Effect uses Epic Games' Unreal Engine, Bioware does not have the right to release a free version of some of the tools used.
Of course, I've also seen posts saying that the Unreal Engine is unmoddable but I think MEHEM has proven that wrong.
Dragon Age Origins and Neverwinter Nights were both created using Bioware's own engine. Therefore Bioware could release a creation kit out of the goodness of their heart. Dragon Age 3 will use EA's Frostbite Engine, so don't expect any tools for that.
#2455
Posté 14 février 2013 - 02:36
ManOfSteel
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wwinters99 wrote...
...Of course, I've also seen posts saying that the Unreal Engine is unmoddable...
Quite the opposite, in fact.
#2456
Posté 14 février 2013 - 07:15
Dr_Extrem
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the mass effect team used a collection of different tools. some of them are wels made and others are licensed by 3rd parties.
my guess is, that those tools blend into each other and that the package, that is needed to create content, is quite complecated and not "noob" friendly.
the ut3 engine is easy to mod - but only in an unmodified and unadjusted form.
my guess is, that those tools blend into each other and that the package, that is needed to create content, is quite complecated and not "noob" friendly.
the ut3 engine is easy to mod - but only in an unmodified and unadjusted form.
Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 14 février 2013 - 07:15 .
#2457
Posté 14 février 2013 - 11:41
CommanderVyse
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Sorry, I should have been more clear. The Unreal Engine, as used in the Mass Effect games, is near impossible to mod. I'm sure MrFob can attest to the difficulties involved.
#2458
Posté 14 février 2013 - 11:59
Dr_Extrem
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wwinters99 wrote...
Sorry, I should have been more clear. The Unreal Engine, as used in the Mass Effect games, is near impossible to mod. I'm sure MrFob can attest to the difficulties involved.
mrfob is known as the "bit-master" for a reason.
mass effects unreal engine is heavily modified and only accessable, if you use custom tools (like me3explorer) or the original dev-tools.
sadly, the original dev-tools are a bundle of several tools from different developers and not all tools are free. bioware had to pay license fees for them and if they would make the tools accessable for everyone, they would have to pay a lot of money to the companies.
#2459
Posté 15 février 2013 - 12:53
bjdbwea
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Did anyone still expect any DLC to change the terrible ending to this game? I will probably buy the DLC because the rest of the game is fantastic, but only if it doesn't for whatever reason prevent this mod from working.
As for the modding tools and why BioWare doesn't release them anymore, as has been said, the engine used for the Mass Effect games wasn't really designed with modding as an important factor. But is has of course also to do with the EA policies imposed upon BioWare. First, modding is pretty much impossible on the current consoles. Creating a toolset suitable for release would therefore mean additional work for the developers and in effect costs that only benefit the smaller number of PC gamers. The time frames set by EA also mean that any such additional work is not practicable anyway. They also don't want the PC versions of their games to appear superior in general, because they don't want people to switch from consoles to PCs. Furthermore, they think that the availability of free mods might be detrimental to the sales number of DLCs, especially of those DLCs that provide nothing more than a few new items, and in the case of the Mass Effect DLCs sometimes even just retextures that were most likely created in a few hours. While this might even be true, Bethesda has proven that you can still make a profit with proper DLCs, but that is just not the EA policy.
As for the modding tools and why BioWare doesn't release them anymore, as has been said, the engine used for the Mass Effect games wasn't really designed with modding as an important factor. But is has of course also to do with the EA policies imposed upon BioWare. First, modding is pretty much impossible on the current consoles. Creating a toolset suitable for release would therefore mean additional work for the developers and in effect costs that only benefit the smaller number of PC gamers. The time frames set by EA also mean that any such additional work is not practicable anyway. They also don't want the PC versions of their games to appear superior in general, because they don't want people to switch from consoles to PCs. Furthermore, they think that the availability of free mods might be detrimental to the sales number of DLCs, especially of those DLCs that provide nothing more than a few new items, and in the case of the Mass Effect DLCs sometimes even just retextures that were most likely created in a few hours. While this might even be true, Bethesda has proven that you can still make a profit with proper DLCs, but that is just not the EA policy.
Modifié par bjdbwea, 15 février 2013 - 12:59 .
#2460
Posté 15 février 2013 - 01:25
MrFob
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I wouldn't worry about that bjdbwea. If the DLC has any impact on the ending at all, it usuall is not too hard to adjust MEHEM for it (see Leviathan). Of course I might jinx it by saying that now .
Interestingly, when I first suggested modding tools for ME1 back in the old legacy forums, a dev answered to the request with the argument the for such a cinematically driven game experience as ME, modding would basically be unrealistic because fan made material usually cannot reproduce the quality required for the kind homogenous feel they wanted for the game.
I am paraphrasing here so if this sounds a bit arrogant, that's probably my fault. It actually was a rather cool discussion but still, I don't really buy the argument (at least not anymore).
I can understand that they wanted to keep a tight lid on the material for the first two games (knowing that the trilogy had to follow a well defined path (whether it did or not in the end is a different story) but for the last installment, it would really have been nice to have the tools. The way the ME games are set up (with the galaxy map and all these isolated clusters and systems) would be perfect for adding small (or large) new missions.
I do kinda get the argument about the ue3 but I am sure something could be worked out there as well. As for the consoles, there are enough examples of game that just have mods for the pc version, it's just a little perk for the platform. It's not like you take anything away from the consoles by giving the pc crowd the opportunity.
Anyway, I do think it's a shame that we have to go through all this trouble, especially giving the possibilities that modding would present in this game structure and this universe.
.Interestingly, when I first suggested modding tools for ME1 back in the old legacy forums, a dev answered to the request with the argument the for such a cinematically driven game experience as ME, modding would basically be unrealistic because fan made material usually cannot reproduce the quality required for the kind homogenous feel they wanted for the game.
I am paraphrasing here so if this sounds a bit arrogant, that's probably my fault. It actually was a rather cool discussion but still, I don't really buy the argument (at least not anymore).
I can understand that they wanted to keep a tight lid on the material for the first two games (knowing that the trilogy had to follow a well defined path (whether it did or not in the end is a different story) but for the last installment, it would really have been nice to have the tools. The way the ME games are set up (with the galaxy map and all these isolated clusters and systems) would be perfect for adding small (or large) new missions.
I do kinda get the argument about the ue3 but I am sure something could be worked out there as well. As for the consoles, there are enough examples of game that just have mods for the pc version, it's just a little perk for the platform. It's not like you take anything away from the consoles by giving the pc crowd the opportunity.
Anyway, I do think it's a shame that we have to go through all this trouble, especially giving the possibilities that modding would present in this game structure and this universe.
#2461
Posté 15 février 2013 - 02:09
CommanderVyse
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MrFob wrote...
Interestingly, when I first suggested modding tools for ME1 back in the old legacy forums, a dev answered to the request with the argument the for such a cinematically driven game experience as ME, modding would basically be unrealistic because fan made material usually cannot reproduce the quality required for the kind homogenous feel they wanted for the game.
Ah yes, "homogenous feel". We have dismissed those claims.
Modifié par wwinters99, 15 février 2013 - 02:10 .
#2462
Posté 15 février 2013 - 02:23
ElectronicPostingInterface
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Meh.
Don't really feel the need to nitpick everything Bioware's ever done.
I remember, like, actually enjoying this game at one point in my life (!)
Don't really feel the need to nitpick everything Bioware's ever done.
I remember, like, actually enjoying this game at one point in my life (!)
Modifié par PKchu, 15 février 2013 - 02:24 .
#2463
Posté 15 février 2013 - 02:45
bjdbwea
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Even if that were true, why should they care? There are a lot of mods for the Bethesda games that aren't of a professional quality, but one of the good things about modding is that players can decide themselves what content they would like to add to their games. If not missions, it should at least have been possible to add armors and weapons to the Mass Effect games, which already would have increased replayability a lot, but EA simply wants to sell any such content themselves. I suppose it's nice enough of them not to actively try to prevent mods such as this from working.MrFob wrote...
Interestingly, when I first suggested modding tools for ME1 back in the old legacy forums, a dev answered to the request with the argument the for such a cinematically driven game experience as ME, modding would basically be unrealistic because fan made material usually cannot reproduce the quality required for the kind homogenous feel they wanted for the game.
Modifié par bjdbwea, 15 février 2013 - 02:50 .
#2464
Posté 15 février 2013 - 03:01
cfs3corsair
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I do hope that someday (preferably soon) Bioware decides to release the tools for the game. If it is even possible they could be persuaded. Would not hurt development that's for sure. In the end though, MEHEM proves that where there is a will, there is a way. With or without bioware's tools, MEHEM will continue to develop and improve into an ending that everyone loves. Not that it isn't awesome already
Modifié par cfs3corsair, 15 février 2013 - 03:14 .
#2465
Posté 15 février 2013 - 03:10
wavion
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MrFob wrote...
The way the ME games are set up (with the galaxy map and all these isolated clusters and systems) would be perfect for adding small (or large) new missions.
What would be even greater is if those minor, fan-made missions could each slightly boost your galactic readiness. Would be a great alternative to multiplayer. I see a lot of wasted potential here.
#2466
Posté 15 février 2013 - 03:16
cfs3corsair
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wavion wrote...
MrFob wrote...
The way the ME games are set up (with the galaxy map and all these isolated clusters and systems) would be perfect for adding small (or large) new missions.
What would be even greater is if those minor, fan-made missions could each slightly boost your galactic readiness. Would be a great alternative to multiplayer. I see a lot of wasted potential here.
fraid I have to agree with ya there. Another good reason to release the SDK
#2467
Posté 15 février 2013 - 03:17
CommanderVyse
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PKchu wrote...
Meh.
Don't really feel the need to nitpick everything Bioware's ever done.
I remember, like, actually enjoying this game at one point in my life (!)
ME3 was my favorite game of all time until those last few minutes. If MEHEM was an option from the start, I'd be on these forums shouting down anyone who dared nitpick.
Since Bioware has so far respected MrFob's right to release a mod and left this thread alone, I will attempt to refrain from petty nitpicks in the future.
#2468
Posté 15 février 2013 - 09:17
Bierwichtel
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I have a question concerning the tools necessary for modding; fact is that there is an SDK toolset for the UT Engine floating around the "interwebz", anyone got any idea how hard (or time-consuming) it would be to adapt these tools for ME3 (maybe using ME3Explorer as framework...)?
What are the differences between vanilla UT engine and the one used for ME? Anybody? I guess it's not just an endian switch?
Which btw makes me (with dread that is) remember the futile efforts to reintegrate the real-time QTE into the PC version of RE4...
What are the differences between vanilla UT engine and the one used for ME? Anybody? I guess it's not just an endian switch?
Which btw makes me (with dread that is) remember the futile efforts to reintegrate the real-time QTE into the PC version of RE4...
Modifié par Bierwichtel, 15 février 2013 - 09:20 .
#2469
Posté 15 février 2013 - 11:28
Alienmorph
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Don't hold your breath about getting a modding toold nor anything that will officially improve the endings aside of the EC (and that feels more like a bad joke, with its try to explain what happens in the end, and your LI begging Shepard to come back alive). It's been an year, somenthing that hudge is not gonna happen now, all they still have in plan is some gimmick-y final content to cash the cow one last time.
So yeah, all we can do now is supporting initiatives like the MEHEM, or accept the mess we've got.
So yeah, all we can do now is supporting initiatives like the MEHEM, or accept the mess we've got.
#2470
Posté 15 février 2013 - 01:23
Ironhandjustice
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Bierwichtel wrote...
I have a question concerning the tools necessary for modding; fact is that there is an SDK toolset for the UT Engine floating around the "interwebz", anyone got any idea how hard (or time-consuming) it would be to adapt these tools for ME3 (maybe using ME3Explorer as framework...)?
What are the differences between vanilla UT engine and the one used for ME? Anybody? I guess it's not just an endian switch?
Which btw makes me (with dread that is) remember the futile efforts to reintegrate the real-time QTE into the PC version of RE4...
Interesting.
I wish I could investigate this deeper. Unfortunately, I'm not at the university anymore, so my time is limited.
Must-resist-temptation-of-investigate
#2471
Posté 15 février 2013 - 02:37
Bierwichtel
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Alienmorph wrote...
Don't hold your breath about getting a modding toold nor anything that will officially improve the endings aside of the EC (and that feels more like a bad joke, with its try to explain what happens in the end, and your LI begging Shepard to come back alive). It's been an year, somenthing that hudge is not gonna happen now, all they still have in plan is some gimmick-y final content to cash the cow one last time.
So yeah, all we can do now is supporting initiatives like the MEHEM, or accept the mess we've got.
of course it could turn out to be a futile effort, but would it not be worse not to try, not to fight, not to hope? my next question will be, has it been tried to use UDK for ME3 and with how much success was that met? Anybody?
Thanks...
(still hoping for a "little blue baby" scene, even just an allusion, like Shep and Liara holding Li's stomach together, gazing lovingly into each other's eyes... SIGH
)
#2472
Posté 15 février 2013 - 05:51
cfs3corsair
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Big meteorite exploded over russia today. You dont think it was really one of those things that crashes into earth carrying husks and other abominations do you?
On a serious note, I hope none of the 950 injured Russians die or lose their sight. That wouldn't be fun at all
On a serious note, I hope none of the 950 injured Russians die or lose their sight. That wouldn't be fun at all
#2473
Posté 15 février 2013 - 07:55
Dr_Extrem
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the really big one passed by half an hour ago ...
1200 and counting in russia ... get well soon!
1200 and counting in russia ... get well soon!
#2474
Posté 15 février 2013 - 08:01
cfs3corsair
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@ wavion and Mr Fob
I hate to bother you with this, but maybe you can help me sort out this mess. Its really tangled. CoxyGT on youtube has been trying to install the mod, with no success and he seems to just be riddled with bad luck. Following, I have some of our conversation. Can you glean anything from this? I can't figure out what is going on, because in theory the installer should work.
Thanks
CoxyGT: I don't understand...The starkid scene happened(with Overlord music on the background), but Harbinger spoke to me....Did I do something wrong...I installed the mod but when I wanted to uninstall it, it said it was not found. What happened(I'm not going back to Cerberus HQ Mission!).
Me:Very strange! You used the quick installer right? It sounds like somehow the files were either never put in their proper locations, or they were removed. Did you update or repair ME3 at all after your install? That sounds like the likely case, as an update/repair will likely remove critical files.
CoxyGT:No. I didn't update...but in the folder DLC_CON_END were 2 Default.sfar files. One was a sfar file, and the other one was a bak file. I think the EC somehow interfers with the mod. I'll try remove the .bak extension and see what it happens!
CoxyGT:Ok, I Installed EC again(so it was a "vanilla" version) and then I replaced manually everything. After I installed Leviathan fix, I saw that it had created a Default.sfar.bak file. This didn't happen when I installed the mod with wavion's installer, so I guess that quick installer didn't install the Leviathan fix. I'll play when I come back to see if it works now, but I won't play from Cerberus HQ mission(I play on insanity). I'll play from the part when you wake up after you're hit by the beam!
Me: Fair enough. Be warned though manual install hasn't always been reliable; something often happens inside the prgram where the files aren't transferred correctly. Feel free to message me if you need any more assistance
CoxyGT:Great...now it crashes after TIM commits suicide. Could it be because I installed the mod so late? I'm not going back to Cerberus HQ mission, it took me 5-6 hours to get here, and now it crashes! Huh, it's like it's mocking me... I don't know what to do anymore!
Me:Sadly going back to Cerberus HQ may be the only way. There have been problems with installing after it; crucial triggers start to be missed I believe after that point. That being said, (provided you aren't going for the achievement) you could just go back, install, play through HQ on casual, and then switch back to insanity when you reach your current status.
Very odd that the installer didnt work. It has the leviathan fix, and everything else. It appears to work for most people
how big was the installer when you got it? Is it possible that somehow the installer was corrupted during the download process?
My gut feeling is this: restore to vanilla. Play till the ending. Endure the stupid ending, or better yet just turn off the screen and sound till the credits. That way you get the achievement. Then re-download the wavion installer and re-install. My gut says that will work.
CoxyGT:I have EC. I wanted to get the achievment, but hell, even 1 minute of that ending could kill me, and I don't want to risk. I'll erase all of the saves after HQ mission and start it on Novice, but first I'll install the mod, and see if it installs the leviathan fix.
CoxyGT: %#&! I only have a save, and it isn't from the beggining, but from the middle. The other save is 5 hours earlier(didn't have enough slots, so I saved 3 times on the last slot). Is it ok if I go from there?
Me: Um Im not sure. Just wait a little ok? Im getting this info to wavion
and Mr Fob, they should be able to provide a solution fairly quickly.
Dont delete anything yet
CoxyGT:I already deleted the saves(found one which loads on the Normandy right
before the HQ mission) and put this one, so now this is my latest save.
I didn't delete anything about the mod, yet. I'll stay put until I get
the answer Thanks a lot for the help
There you have it. Quite a mess eh? I have also just reccommended updating, repairing, re-downloading, extract/install, and then play from his normandy mission from right before cerberus HQ. Hopefully that works Any ideas you could come up with would be great. Sorry again to bother you with this
I hate to bother you with this, but maybe you can help me sort out this mess. Its really tangled. CoxyGT on youtube has been trying to install the mod, with no success and he seems to just be riddled with bad luck. Following, I have some of our conversation. Can you glean anything from this? I can't figure out what is going on, because in theory the installer should work.
Thanks
CoxyGT: I don't understand...The starkid scene happened(with Overlord music on the background), but Harbinger spoke to me....Did I do something wrong...I installed the mod but when I wanted to uninstall it, it said it was not found. What happened(I'm not going back to Cerberus HQ Mission!).
Me:Very strange! You used the quick installer right? It sounds like somehow the files were either never put in their proper locations, or they were removed. Did you update or repair ME3 at all after your install? That sounds like the likely case, as an update/repair will likely remove critical files.
CoxyGT:No. I didn't update...but in the folder DLC_CON_END were 2 Default.sfar files. One was a sfar file, and the other one was a bak file. I think the EC somehow interfers with the mod. I'll try remove the .bak extension and see what it happens!
CoxyGT:Ok, I Installed EC again(so it was a "vanilla" version) and then I replaced manually everything. After I installed Leviathan fix, I saw that it had created a Default.sfar.bak file. This didn't happen when I installed the mod with wavion's installer, so I guess that quick installer didn't install the Leviathan fix. I'll play when I come back to see if it works now, but I won't play from Cerberus HQ mission(I play on insanity). I'll play from the part when you wake up after you're hit by the beam!
Me: Fair enough. Be warned though manual install hasn't always been reliable; something often happens inside the prgram where the files aren't transferred correctly. Feel free to message me if you need any more assistance
CoxyGT:Great...now it crashes after TIM commits suicide. Could it be because I installed the mod so late? I'm not going back to Cerberus HQ mission, it took me 5-6 hours to get here, and now it crashes! Huh, it's like it's mocking me... I don't know what to do anymore!
Me:Sadly going back to Cerberus HQ may be the only way. There have been problems with installing after it; crucial triggers start to be missed I believe after that point. That being said, (provided you aren't going for the achievement) you could just go back, install, play through HQ on casual, and then switch back to insanity when you reach your current status.
Very odd that the installer didnt work. It has the leviathan fix, and everything else. It appears to work for most people
how big was the installer when you got it? Is it possible that somehow the installer was corrupted during the download process?
My gut feeling is this: restore to vanilla. Play till the ending. Endure the stupid ending, or better yet just turn off the screen and sound till the credits. That way you get the achievement. Then re-download the wavion installer and re-install. My gut says that will work.
CoxyGT:I have EC. I wanted to get the achievment, but hell, even 1 minute of that ending could kill me, and I don't want to risk. I'll erase all of the saves after HQ mission and start it on Novice, but first I'll install the mod, and see if it installs the leviathan fix.
CoxyGT: %#&! I only have a save, and it isn't from the beggining, but from the middle. The other save is 5 hours earlier(didn't have enough slots, so I saved 3 times on the last slot). Is it ok if I go from there?
Me: Um Im not sure. Just wait a little ok? Im getting this info to wavion
and Mr Fob, they should be able to provide a solution fairly quickly.
Dont delete anything yet
CoxyGT:I already deleted the saves(found one which loads on the Normandy right
before the HQ mission) and put this one, so now this is my latest save.
I didn't delete anything about the mod, yet. I'll stay put until I get
the answer Thanks a lot for the help
There you have it. Quite a mess eh? I have also just reccommended updating, repairing, re-downloading, extract/install, and then play from his normandy mission from right before cerberus HQ. Hopefully that works Any ideas you could come up with would be great. Sorry again to bother you with this
Modifié par cfs3corsair, 15 février 2013 - 08:32 .
#2475
Posté 15 février 2013 - 08:38
Dr_Extrem
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i found his problem ...
this happens, if you load a save AFTER you have started chronos station.
with cronos station, you "preload" stuff into the savegame file and in the process, the ending scene gets messed up. the installation is most likely ok - the savegame is the problem.
he should play from chronos onward ... he can play it on a lower difficulty level - its a breaze anyway.
this happens, if you load a save AFTER you have started chronos station.
with cronos station, you "preload" stuff into the savegame file and in the process, the ending scene gets messed up. the installation is most likely ok - the savegame is the problem.
he should play from chronos onward ... he can play it on a lower difficulty level - its a breaze anyway.
