70 réponses à ce sujet

[dversion]

That's all I ask.
I always find it ridiculous in every RPG (j, c, or otherwise) that no one ever gives a practical reason IN GAME why I can't bring my small army of companions into a dangerous situation in which it would probably be best if everyone came. I can't think of any game that gave a reason other than "It looks like you already have some dudes with you, I'm going to stand in this corner all day and wait until I'm needed like we're all in some weird freaky sadomasochistic relationship."

DA2 had the feeling that each companion had their own life and wouldn't be available but it didn't really go out of its way to say that. All I need is some logical reason why I'm only allowed to choose three highly skilled combatants when I would be better off choosing everyone. At the very least let me know that when they arn't being used they're at least not just sitting around all day hoping they'll be picked.

Modifié par dversion, 03 novembre 2012 - 11:30 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

David Gaider wrote...

There are several cons involved with having party members:

* Pathfinding. You ever wonder why most games that involve movement don't have party members, or greatly simplify how those characters (usually just one) follow you? This is why. The physical act of co-ordinating four or more characters through a level is challenging unless the entire level (and likely the game) is built specifically to allow for it.

* Memory budget: Party members are expensive, in terms of the active memory they must consume. Why? There are technical reasons which are, to be frank, completely beyond me as a writer. Something about their AI, their animations and/or their more detailed models. We need to balance the amount of memory they take up with the amount of memory the other models in an area (such as ambients or enemies) take up or which the level itself takes up. Having more of one means having less of the others.

Do you guys care about these things? No, I doubt it. But they are the primary hurdles we must face, above and beyond any kind of story implications party size might have.

Thread

That's pretty much it.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 03 novembre 2012 - 11:27 .

[ScarMK]

Balance/performance issues most likely.

[Killer3000ad]

Balance, map/encounter design.

If you wanted to bring more party members, the maps would need to have more open spaces and wider paths or it'd get quickly crammed. Wider paths/open spaces = bigger maps = more resources = performance hit.

Modifié par Killer3000ad, 03 novembre 2012 - 11:26 .

[dversion]

No, that's not the point. I was asking for a reason in game. I understand the technical reason is "computers." But I was asking for a reason provided in the context of the game.

Modifié par dversion, 03 novembre 2012 - 11:29 .

[ScarMK]

Smaller groups attract less attention or they have better stuff to do. Entering a dangerous Cavern with all your companions is like putting all your eggs in one basket. Something bad happens down there, you're all royally screwed.

[dversion]

ScarMK wrote...

Smaller groups attract less attention or they have better stuff to do. Entering a dangerous Cavern with all your companions is like putting all your eggs in one basket. Something bad happens down there, you're all royally screwed.

Right but from a gameplay perspective, everything would be a lot easier if you just took everyone. No one ever says "Hey, I'll stay here in case you all die horribly." Despite the fact that the PC is going and if s/he dies we're alls crewed anyway.

[Killer3000ad]

OP has a point but when you look back at older party games like Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire and KOTOR, there's never been an in-game reason why you can't bring everyone. It's always been something gamers accepted for gameplay purposes. Essentially, the technical reasons were why you were limited and gamers were ok with it mostly.

[MichaelStuart]

I also find this annoying.

I would be happy if I just get a scene of the party spliting up into groups to explore, or have a NPC refusing to let all the party enter a area.

[Sejborg]

Hardware not strong enough.

[Tinu]

In some cases it would be nice if there was a little meeting before delving into a cave. Some companions might even threaten to leave you, since you never pick them and it's up to you to convince them to stay. It could also be fun if you could send them on different missions (off screen) in the mean time and if you come back from a quest, they'll report back to you.

[dversion]

Sejborg wrote...

Hardware not strong enough.

Thanks for not reading the post at all.

[dversion]

TinuHawke wrote...

In some cases it would be nice if there was a little meeting before delving into a cave. Some companions might even threaten to leave you, since you never pick them and it's up to you to convince them to stay. It could also be fun if you could send them on different missions (off screen) in the mean time and if you come back from a quest, they'll report back to you.

And idea would simply be a companion saying "Listen, you've already got enough people helping you. I've got things I need to do. I NEED SOME ME TIME YOU'RE SMOTHERING ME!" or something akin to that.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Do we need an in-game explanation for this? lol.

[dversion]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Do we need an in-game explanation for this? lol.

I just explained why I would like one. It makes the world and the characters feel more lived.

[Sejborg]

dversion wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Hardware not strong enough.

Thanks

You'r welcome. 

Modifié par Sejborg, 04 novembre 2012 - 12:08 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

dversion wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Do we need an in-game explanation for this? lol.

I just explained why I would like one. It makes the world and the characters feel more lived.

Well, you're not gonna get one. So, stop being so damn stubborn and use head cannon to explain everything like the rest of us do.

[Twisted Path]

It would be pretty cool if it were shown or implied that the B-team of people who you don't take on quests were off doing important stuff too. Kind of like that one point in Origins where you assign someone (I always picked Sten,) to lead a group and hold a position while you go directly after the archdemon. It was also kind of done in portions of the last big mission in Mass Effect 2.

What I'm saying is maybe something in the story where instead of forming a team of four you and the big group of companions talk about dividing into groups, then you only see the adventures of the group lead by the PC. You could even have a little banter at the home base between members of the B-team about the cool stuff that they did and that you missed out on.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Twisted Path wrote...

It would be pretty cool if it were shown or implied that the B-team of people who you don't take on quests were off doing important stuff too. Kind of like that one point in Origins where you assign someone (I always picked Sten,) to lead a group and hold a position while you go directly after the archdemon. It was also kind of done in portions of the last big mission in Mass Effect 2.

What I'm saying is maybe something in the story where instead of forming a team of four you and the big group of companions talk about dividing into groups, then you only see the adventures of the group lead by the PC. You could even have a little banter at the home base between members of the B-team about the cool stuff that they did and that you missed out on.

At the local brothel.

[dversion]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

dversion wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Do we need an in-game explanation for this? lol.

I just explained why I would like one. It makes the world and the characters feel more lived.

Well, you're not gonna get one. So, stop being so damn stubborn and use head cannon to explain everything like the rest of us do.

There's a cannon on my head? That's pretty cool but it doesn't explain anything.
Also I'm not being stubborn, I'm generating discussion and requesting a small feature.

[dversion]

Twisted Path wrote...

It would be pretty cool if it were shown or implied that the B-team of people who you don't take on quests were off doing important stuff too. Kind of like that one point in Origins where you assign someone (I always picked Sten,) to lead a group and hold a position while you go directly after the archdemon. It was also kind of done in portions of the last big mission in Mass Effect 2.

What I'm saying is maybe something in the story where instead of forming a team of four you and the big group of companions talk about dividing into groups, then you only see the adventures of the group lead by the PC. You could even have a little banter at the home base between members of the B-team about the cool stuff that they did and that you missed out on.

I really like the point in DA:O where your entire party gets to go in and fight then you assign the rest of teh squad to do other things. at the end of awakening it's similar in that the rest of the party is back holding down the fort.

[Foolsfolly]

dversion wrote...

That's all I ask.
I always find it ridiculous in every RPG (j, c, or otherwise) that no one ever gives a practical reason IN GAME why I can't bring my small army of companions into a dangerous situation in which it would probably be best if everyone came. I can't think of any game that gave a reason other than "It looks like you already have some dudes with you, I'm going to stand in this corner all day and wait until I'm needed like we're all in some weird freaky sadomasochistic relationship."

DA2 had the feeling that each companion had their own life and wouldn't be available but it didn't really go out of its way to say that. All I need is some logical reason why I'm only allowed to choose three highly skilled combatants when I would be better off choosing everyone. At the very least let me know that when they arn't being used they're at least not just sitting around all day hoping they'll be picked.

If there's a big final battle I'd like everyone to be involved. Jade Empire had the teammates not with you do something when you stormed the Imperial Palace and they all had a role during the defense of Dirge. Mass Effect 2 obviously had everyone come into play, DA:O had you leave a team to hold the gates, KOTOR had them sit in a hangar.. which wasn't ideal. KOTOR2 did the Onderon assault fantastically (Mandalore V less than ideal). DA2 had them appear as invulnerable NPCs randomly attacking Meredith which is less than ideal.

So if there's a similar battle I'd be more in favor of KOTOR2 or ME2. I like making the choices and I especially liked how in KOTOR2 you got to play as your second in command on the moon Dxun. That was always great. Mira or the Handmaiden would usually lead that assault. Which ever the current character considered a protege.

OH! And I want DA3 to have NPC companions who are like your protege. I like teaching NPCs and raising them to follow in my footsteps.

And again I'd like a pony as well.

[Wulfram]

Sometimes giving a weak explanation is worse than none. Better just not to think about it.

But giving the rest of the squad something to do for big battles

[JWvonGoethe]

Having companions who lead separate lives, away from the party, helps to make this less of an issue. DA2 was a major improvement over DAO in this area - when not adventuring with Hawke, Aveline had her work with the city guard, Anders had his clinic, Varric the Hanged Man and Merrill worked on her eluvian, etc. Whereas in DAO they all presumably stood on the spot at the party camp, waiting for the Warden to get back.

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 04 novembre 2012 - 01:32 .

[dversion]

JWvonGoethe wrote...

Having companions who lead separate lives, away from the party, helps to make this less of an issue. DA2 was a major improvement over DAO in this area - when not adventuring with Hawke, Aveline had her work with the city guard, Anders had his clinic, Varric the Hanged Man and Merrill worked on her eluvian, etc. Whereas in DAO they all presumably stood on the spot at the party camp, waiting for the Warden to get back.

Yeah I liked that but there still was no reason given as to why you couldn't get all your buddies together at any given time. Also I would have liked them to have some sort of idle animation when you went to their 'place' so at least it didn't look like they were just sitting and frowning.