116 réponses à ce sujet

[IntoTheDarkness]

There has been not single Bioware game in which the protagonist is born without a secret background or special ability. Even Shepard in ME is considered the epitome of human genes or something and this deeply disturbs me.

Why can't we ever have a protagonist that grows on its own without relying to having some sort of 'special cliche' power? why can't we be someone not-special (no last two standing grey warden or one who can defeat Quanari leader on one-on-one combat), and why are we supposed to be freaking invincible every time?

In old Bioware games such as KOTOR or Jade empire, there was an arena for the protagonist to compete. I tried purposely losing only to find that Bioware did *NOT* consider losing one of the outcomes. Don't you think this only serves to make plots feel inferior and unreal?


Bioware will do well to remember how Darth Vader, the chosen one of the prophecy, loses his limps and suffers many defeates but he is considered the most complex and well made character in Star wars series. Prodo in ROTK didn't have god-like power to fulfill his destiny. Gandalf the grey didn't really smack heads of every evil character with his staff to be called the wise.

In fact I don't even understand why so many people fancy the idea of super heroes like Spidermand and batman. I thought those were utterly silly and childish but it's amazing that many adults still love super hero cliche. I think Bioware has many talented writers and I wish they could pull off a story without relying too much on the bare ability of chracters, but rather based on more complex ideas like intricate politics and a claash between idealogies. I personally liked DA2's story over DAO. The game was so streamlined and rushed but if they had more polishness i bet it could have been much better.

so my question is: are we seeing another cliche of a god-child or gifted individual saving the world with help of his companions he/she recruited in 80% of the gameplay?

[Fortlowe]

As far as I could tell Hawke was just an average smuck that made the most of a series of failures. So that game already got made.

[Maria Caliban]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

Can we ever see a failure-prone protagonist?

Yes. It was called Dragon Age 2 and it's available on Origin for only $19.99.

[JWvonGoethe]

Well, that is essentially what Hawke was - he didn't save the world, far from it, and he was from a humble background. That was the setup from the beginning of the game, and carried through right to the end.

I do get what you mean about not being able to lose fights, however. The fight before the Prison Break quest in DA:O was not only possible to lose, it was very difficult to win, and the game almost expected you to lose (you only got the Prison Break quest if you lost.) More places where the protagonist could either fail or win in combat, with different outcomes for both, would be great. It would also add a little more flavour to the choice dynamic.

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 04 novembre 2012 - 05:05 .

[Foolsfolly]

Dalish Warden wasn't born special or had any special skillset. They just got a dose of darkspawn taint and Duncan brought them to Ostagar because why not? You need bodies in the Wardens to defeat Blights.

[n7stormrunner]

we have... there was much backlash

[ShaggyWolf]

You did *not* seriously just put down Spidey, did you?

[Fortlowe]

JWvonGoethe wrote...

Well, that is essentially what Hawke was - he didn't save the world, far from it, and he was from a humble background. That was the setup from the beginning of the game, and carried through right to the end.

I do get what you mean about not being able to lose fights, however. The fight before the Prison Break quest in DA:O was not only possible to lose, it was very difficult to win, and the game almost expected you to lose (you only got the Prison Break quest if you lost.) More places where the protagonist could either fail or win in combat, with different outcomes for both, would be great. It would also add a little more flavour to the choice dynamic.

This I can get behind. Performance directly impacting the course of the narrative. Yes please.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

Dragon Age 2?

[Maria Caliban]

JWvonGoethe wrote...

...you only got the Prison Break quest if you lost...

You also got it if you surrendered.

[RandomSyhn]

I dissagree, the whole warden thing was coming from average beginnings. Sure you had your nobels and mages, but none were groomed to end the blight. Sure dwarf noble was trained to lead, human noble too probably, but the dalish elf wasn't, nor was the city elf, no chance for the dwarf commoner. Hell the mage was under the assumption they'd never leave the circle. Sure they're involvement was because of circumstance, but that circumstance was required for them to start on the journey to do the impossible. Dragon age two you were a refugee, possibly an apostate, doesn't seem all that special to me. Hawkes life was full of failure, Bartrand and the deep roads, momma hawke, hell everybody just assumes hawke is up for the job.

I also dissagree with the point about Sheppard. Just becasue you don't get to play through the humble beginnings doesn't mean they aren't there. You choose colony, streets, or space brat, then your military service. Sheppard BECOMES the epitome of humanity through action not genetics.

I don't see god-like powers in any of these characters, unless maybe you're refering to biotics or magic. Simply the traits that lead them through circumstance. Each game is a journey of improvment, if you want to take it literally look at the leveling system, if not look at how NPCs opinions about you change throughout the games.

You don't start the games special, at best your considered slightly above average. Think about it in DA:O if Duncan recruited one origin but not the other five what happens to those characters? Well through NPC dialogue you find out they DIE. Only thing special about your warden when you begin is that they were lucky enough Duncan was in the right place at the right time.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Hawke was sure as hell fail prone. Seriously, DA2 is what you're looking for if that's your bag. I'm not saying it was executed well, but it's there nonetheless.

[JWvonGoethe]

Maria Caliban wrote...

JWvonGoethe wrote...

...you only got the Prison Break quest if you lost...

You also got it if you surrendered.

Sten and Oghren disapprove. No self respecting Warden would ever surrender!

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 04 novembre 2012 - 06:59 .

[Ausstig]

Yes and s/he is named Hawk.

Did you play DA2 to the end? or Mark of the Assassin?

Hawk is a loser when it counts, except for act 2.

[Fredward]

None of the heroes were BORN super. Shepard became super after she/he distinguished him/herself in such a way that it attracted the attention of some crazy billionaire dude. The Warden didn't have some magical special ability, circumstance forced them into being one of the last Grey Wardens in Ferelden. And Hawke was just really good at killing things so why shouldn't he/she have been able to kill the Arishok?

Playing a loser hero would be depressing, and not in the nice way.

[Arppis]

I actualy liked Hawke because of this. He made series of mistakes but still, I didn't hate him. It was ok and I actualy enjoyed the adversity he got.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

"Failure-prone? Yousa talkin' bout mesa?" 

Modifié par The Teryn of Whatever, 04 novembre 2012 - 08:54 .

[Arppis]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...


"Failure-prone? Yousa talkin' bout mesa?" 

NOW THAT'S A HERO!

[KiwiQuiche]

...you fail to save your own mum in DA2.

That's pretty fail.

Seriously, did you even play that game? Hawke fcuks up quite a bit in DA2.

[Aligalipe]

Have you ever read comics? Spider-Man suffers a lots of defeats, he comes to brink of death several times, especially against carnage. Spider-Man in the ultimate universe even dies. This goes for other superheroes like Batman as well. But you have a point, we shouldn't die when we lose a turnement fight.

[wright1978]

I certainly don't want forced failing as DA2 did with the mum thing. Choices with different consequences please.

[fchopin]

I would just like to remind OP with the name Hawke.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

...you fail to save your own mum in DA2.

That's pretty fail.

Failing to save Leandra is tragic. There is a difference.