99 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr_Extrem]

Ironhandjustice wrote...

N7 Assass1n wrote...

I think this just gave me the incentive to get Mass Effect for PC and convert from console.

Contact the original modder on the original thread (now moved, I suppose, to give it less visibility), and tell him about.

Not sure if it could work, but loads of people will be gratefull to you

well it is a fan creation - so it was ok to move it.

the modder in fact, helps bioware ... before this mod, i did not even think about buying dlc. ok .. the current version does not run with leviathan - but that is about te get fixed. 

leviathan may give us hints to the ending, by telling stuff about an ancient ai who created the reapers, but lets face it - shepard would give a d**n meeting with the ai, if he/she could have started the crucible from that bloody console.

if i am informed correctly, leviathan only adds one line of dialogue to the starchild ending - thats all and since the devs have stated (several times) that the endings are not to be changed any further, i can really live with this mod.

i bet, that the omega dlc is "just" about freeing omega from cerberus - with hints leading to tims indoctrination efforts. that would not affect the starchild ending in any way.

[MegaSovereign]

If the mod stops working everytime you buy/install new DLC, doesn't that mean you'll have to update the mod everytime new DLC comes out?

[Chaotic-Fusion]

MegaSovereign wrote...

If the mod stops working everytime you buy/install new DLC, doesn't that mean you'll have to update the mod everytime new DLC comes out?

I imagine it doesn't work with Leviathan because it changed some lines with the catalyst, since I doubt Omega or any future DLC will do that I don't think it will need updating. But I know little of modding so I might be wrong.

[dreamgazer]

Greylycantrope wrote...

So for sake of curiosity what sort of fix would you be looking for anways? What would you like to see?

Honestly, if it's a choice between this mod and The Catalyst, I'd choose the latter---with a little retooling. The concept and execution needs polish with a little restructuring (depending on exactly which direction BioWare wants to take it), but I'd much rather have the conflict of themes and deliberation over using technology, ambition and hubris, the Reaper agenda, and the future than a simple Cthulhu-off switch.

[Dr_Extrem]

dreamgazer wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

So for sake of curiosity what sort of fix would you be looking for anways? What would you like to see?

Honestly, if it's a choice between this mod and The Catalyst, I'd choose the latter---with a little retooling. The concept and execution needs polish with a little restructuring (depending on exactly which direction BioWare wants to take it), but I'd much rather have the conflict of themes and deliberation over using technology, ambition and hubris, the Reaper agenda, and the future than a simple Cthulhu-off switch.

well the best thing about this mod is, that it is absolutely optional.

since this is the very ending of the trilogy and shepard is not supposed to return in future games, this ending does not matter anymore, than the original ones.

it just stops rubbing salt in the wound of a reasonable amout of fans.

[Eterna]

It's funny because if it was the original ending we all would be complaining about the lack of Reaper explanations and such. You guys are just so deprived that you will accept anything that has some feelings of happiness.

It's really sad, but a tiny bit funny. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 04 novembre 2012 - 06:30 .

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

If the mod stops working everytime you buy/install new DLC, doesn't that mean you'll have to update the mod everytime new DLC comes out?

New DLC won't be coming out forever.

[Fawx9]

Eterna5 wrote...

It's funny because if it was the original ending we all would be complaining about the lack of Reaper explanations and such. You guys are just so deprived that you will accept anything that has some feelings of happiness.

It's really sad, but a tiny bit funny. 

Pretty sure I was content with the Reapers explanation from ME1 and ME2.

I just wanted to kill the things, without blowing up galactic society.

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreamgazer wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

So for sake of curiosity what sort of fix would you be looking for anways? What would you like to see?

Honestly, if it's a choice between this mod and The Catalyst, I'd choose the latter---with a little retooling. The concept and execution needs polish with a little restructuring (depending on exactly which direction BioWare wants to take it), but I'd much rather have the conflict of themes and deliberation over using technology, ambition and hubris, the Reaper agenda, and the future than a simple Cthulhu-off switch.

Yeah the mod is admittedly a fair generic "you win conclusion" though given the misshandeling of the intellectual elements of the story thus far I'm more than will to amputate the intellectual aspect all together at this point. Honestly my ideal solution would be just to remove the star brat and synthesis from the equation all together and the refocus the story on humanity. Every ending up to this point has had some element of humanity's role in the galaxy, at least from my perspective. The question presented to us at the end of ME1 and ME2 has largely been does humanity take advantage of the situation to further it's own agenda or do we try to earn the respect of the other species through less underhanded means. In ME1 we had to choose if we wanted to take advantage of Sovereign's attack to get rid of the council or show we're willing to struggle along side the rest of the galactic community. ME2 had something similar, save to base and hand it over to Cerberus to help ensure human dominance or destroy it and deny ourselves a technologcal edge and struggle with the rest of the galaxy to overcome the coming crisis.

In the broadest sense it should be an Alliance mentality vs a Cerberus mentality. ME1 showed us how the Allaince does things, ME2 showed us Cereberus' perspective. ME3 should have concluded with a choice between these to mindframes, control the Reapers and put humanity on top, or destroy them and become because you see youself as part of a larger community. Again this is solely how I would have liked to see it done, not necissarily what everyone wanted but intellectually satisfying can be tricky to do, so I'll settle for generic in this case.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 04 novembre 2012 - 06:40 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

That's a great mod. It saves me doing the nonsensical dialogue with the kid. The reaper's destruction is what was the purpose of anything before the ending and this mod simply adds that. Something like this should have been in the EC. I've never understood why firing the Crucible needed the consent of its victims - especially because both control and synthesis never made sense to me.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Eterna5 wrote...

It's funny because if it was the original ending we all would be complaining about the lack of Reaper explanations and such. You guys are just so deprived that you will accept anything that has some feelings of happiness.

It's really sad, but a tiny bit funny. 

I would have prefered they remained a mystery personally, they seemed more intimidating that way, but by all means keep stroking your ego, you clearly need to self esteem boost.

[MegaSovereign]

You could add a "low EMS" and "mid EMS" scenario. They could be left the same minus the Catalyst scene.

Basically, the "Shepard gets rescued" ending should only be there if you have high EMS.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

ToaOrka wrote...

The fact that Bioware couldn't do what a rag-tag team of modders could is downright disgraceful.

Kudos to you guys, for making an ending that gave me emotions other than "What the hell is this ****?"

Hell yeah ! Good job to those modders !  

[Pantegana]

crimzontearz wrote...

Pantegana wrote...

I love the part where there is no starchild.

yo Compatriota!

you got to convert to halo 4, you are one of the few people online I would not mind playing Spartan Ops with

I'd like that but unfortunately I play on PC, not X Box, so no Halo for the rat.

Greylycantrope wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

It's
funny because if it was the original ending we all would be complaining
about the lack of Reaper explanations and such. You guys are just so
deprived that you will accept anything that has some feelings of
happiness.

It's really sad, but a tiny bit funny. 

I
would have prefered they remained a mystery personally, they seemed
more intimidating that way, but by all means keep stroking your ego, you
clearly need to self esteem boost.

I agree, I wouldn't have had anything to complain if the reapers stayed a mistery. After all it would have been reasonable considering what they are: all-powerful, superancient and supersecretive bad ass machines.
It would also have left material for a decent sequel.

[Arxduke]

Best thing that ever happened to these series.

Just need to find a way to get it to work for those that have the Leviathan DLC downloaded.

[Dr_Extrem]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

That's a great mod. It saves me doing the nonsensical dialogue with the kid. The reaper's destruction is what was the purpose of anything before the ending and this mod simply adds that. Something like this should have been in the EC. I've never understood why firing the Crucible needed the consent of its victims - especially because both control and synthesis never made sense to me.

then you are not interlectual enough, to play me3 !!!  


well .. the reaper off switch, is main theme of the game, since the second mission. the whole story builds up around the crucible and its fielding. superweapon themes are as generic, as they can be. a generic ending might be cheap, but so is the whole story.


mass effect always had pretty generic stories or.

- "upstarting hero has a fatal encounter with his/her fate and becomes the savior of the galaxy."
- "disregarded hero returns and builds a team of specialists to stop a threat only a few are caring about."
- "galaxy gets overrun by giant monsters and the hero has to build the ultimate weapon to stop them."

the first one is a generic heroes story, found in every second fiction. the second is the classic "dirty dozen" theme, that got reruns untill someone hsaid stop. last but not least, the classic superweapon plot. exausted in tons of literature - classic and modern.

in a strict sense, the original endings sticked out with their  pseudo interelctual attitude. you can even call it stylisitc inconsistency.

these classic plots were presented in an excelent way with lots of interesting aliens, beautiful women, strong heros and betrayal. making a generic ending acheavable, would have pleased the broader audience, would have made the introduction of a new hero easier and it would not have hurt. even simple plots can become really impressive, if they are not presented with a wooden mallet.

you have to take into account, that the games are m-rated / usk 16 / uk 12/15. that means that not only old farts (like me) who read a lot of scifi could be able to understand the plot. it had be be kept accesable and understandable. the endings were "starker tobak" - stong stuff and i can immagine, that a 17 year old boy did have difficulties to fully understand the scope of the endings. video games should be kept video games.

if i want sophisticated literature, i know where to find it.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

[...]

well .. the reaper off switch, is main theme of the game, since the second mission. the whole story builds up around the crucible and its fielding. superweapon themes are as generic, as they can be. a generic ending might be cheap, but so is the whole story.

[...]

I don't mind the Crucible being that super weapon. It's obvious from the ending of ME1 that there is going to be a real problem when we face a fleet of reapers. What I don't like is that the ending choices were not supposed to be there in the first place (BW's infamous no-ABC ending promise), that Shepard was fighting anything that smelled like control, minutes before talking to the brat, and that nobody but Saren remotely endorsed the synthesis concept. If you don't believe in Saren's vision than maybe EDI has the answer. Talk to EDI just after you've fetched Eve. It's one of the few times that she has two monologues. Ignore the first and click on her again. She'll talk about transcendence and that humans are too diverse to embrace the concept, but she thinks that the salarians may like the idea. That's the closest thing which can be connected to synthesis. Talking about foreshadowing. Not.

Again, I am OK with the Crucible. As weapon. Not as a means with options nobody wants or isn't prepared to. Shepard making the choices other than destroy/refuse do exactly what the reapers always have done: Violating the right of self-determination for aeons. Suddenly the player is confronted with the idea that the reapers wear the white hats and the synthetics are the bad guys, which are supposed to have caused this mess. It's nonsense. Rannoch proved it. The reapers turning the zha'til hostile proved it. And so on. That's why I think that keeping it simple and just use the Crucible as a weapon would have been an improvement.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 04 novembre 2012 - 08:29 .

[Maxster_]

crimzontearz wrote...

oh for the love...


MP was needed to get the bloody breath scene, it was PROMISED we would not need it but we did and I have a direct apology from another dev about it, yes Casey and Mac FLAT OUT LIED about it.

The final hour video reveals basically that Mac was hired solely because he was Casey's best bud.

Refuse was not an ending as it DOES NOT trigger the ending achievement, it was basically Bioware's way of saying "don't like it? YOU LOSE"

Destroy with high EMS gives the breath scene Bioware refused to confirm Shepard lives publicly at Comicon too thus requiring me to headcanon the ending. I did not pay 60$ to headcanon my Shepard's ending. The really ****ty part is that Control and Synthesis do nit require headcanoning

Forced MP is the main reason that there is no war assets shown(or used like in DA). It is the reason why EMS have no meaning, and choices are meaningless.

[Maxster_]

Dr_Extrem wrote...
...

well .. the reaper off switch, is main theme of the game, since the second mission. the whole story builds up around the crucible and its fielding. superweapon themes are as generic, as they can be. a generic ending might be cheap, but so is the whole story.

...

Well, Crucible can not be repaired(or removed) by any mod...

[Dr_Extrem]

Maxster_ wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...
...

well .. the reaper off switch, is main theme of the game, since the second mission. the whole story builds up around the crucible and its fielding. superweapon themes are as generic, as they can be. a generic ending might be cheap, but so is the whole story.

...

Well, Crucible can not be repaired(or removed) by any mod...

that has never benn my interntion (to remove the crucible). i just wanted to show, that the story as a whole was generic from the very beginning. the endings were stylistically inconsistant, because the story was generic in the first place. there is a reason, the endings always felt "out of place". generic stories and deep, interlectual endings dont fit very well - especially, if a part your audience is relatively young.

hey i like generic stories - as long, as they are presented in an interesting way. mass effect did this from the first moment.

[Maxster_]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...
...

well .. the reaper off switch, is main theme of the game, since the second mission. the whole story builds up around the crucible and its fielding. superweapon themes are as generic, as they can be. a generic ending might be cheap, but so is the whole story.

...

Well, Crucible can not be repaired(or removed) by any mod...

that has never benn my interntion (to remove the crucible). i just wanted to show, that the story as a whole was generic from the very beginning. the endings were stylistically inconsistant, because the story was generic in the first place. there is a reason, the endings always felt "out of place". generic stories and deep, interlectual endings dont fit very well - especially, if a part your audience is relatively young.

hey i like generic stories - as long, as they are presented in an interesting way. mass effect did this from the first moment.

Problem with Crucible that it is complete nonsense and absurd, and thus requires characters to be dumbed down. And that, unfortunately, can not be fixed with mod.

And ME3 endings are not intellectual, they are plain lore-breaking nonsense(also retconning prequels to nothing). And their message, especially synthesis(peace only possible through forced homogenization) is just horrific.
And this is main problem with them, not them being "intellectual" or "deep".

[Dr_Extrem]

Maxster_ wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...
...

well .. the reaper off switch, is main theme of the game, since the second mission. the whole story builds up around the crucible and its fielding. superweapon themes are as generic, as they can be. a generic ending might be cheap, but so is the whole story.

...

Well, Crucible can not be repaired(or removed) by any mod...

that has never benn my interntion (to remove the crucible). i just wanted to show, that the story as a whole was generic from the very beginning. the endings were stylistically inconsistant, because the story was generic in the first place. there is a reason, the endings always felt "out of place". generic stories and deep, interlectual endings dont fit very well - especially, if a part your audience is relatively young.

hey i like generic stories - as long, as they are presented in an interesting way. mass effect did this from the first moment.

Problem with Crucible that it is complete nonsense and absurd, and thus requires characters to be dumbed down. And that, unfortunately, can not be fixed with mod.

And ME3 endings are not intellectual, they are plain lore-breaking nonsense(also retconning prequels to nothing). And their message, especially synthesis(peace only possible through forced homogenization) is just horrific.
And this is main problem with them, not them being "intellectual" or "deep".

the endings are recycled deus ex endings - i played that game several times. they are also inspired by asimovs books. especially the control ending. you could call it an interlectual ending, since the rest of the game in an energetic space opera.

the problem is, that i can see the problems - i even discussed the long term effects on society, caused by control and synthesis (destroy as well). it is not thought to the end. some/many people think otherwise. the writers have written themselves into a corner with the story - from the very beginning. they gave the reapers so many steroids, that the only thing that can bring them down, is a superweapon.

all super weapons are in fact absurd plot tools. but sadly, it is the only (easy) way to end the series. the fact that we only have this plot for me3 available, doen not make things easier.

[Redbelle]

A shame that for all the strength's of the Reapers, the writers never once seemed to consider how their strength's could be rendered into a weakness.

In MP I've shut down several indoctrination boosters. One of these, handed over to alliance R&D could had proved the starting point to block the indoc signal to prevent more troops going over to the Reapers, and by attacking the Reapers forced ideology weapon with a similar weapon. Also paving the way for an discussion on what Shepard would do with a weapon that bends ppl to it's will once the war with the Reapers is over. A potential plot point that mirrors discussion on the development of WMD's.

One major problem I have with the crucible though? It just doesn't fit in neatly with the plot. We send ppl to it but we never ever really see it aside from that one time under construction. And again when it is deployed. A mission at it's build location, or a mission briefing there to give us a sense of location would have been nice.

Modifié par Redbelle, 04 novembre 2012 - 10:12 .

[Prism]

[quote]Dr_Extrem wrote...

[quote]Prismvg wrote...

It's nice and the work done is commendable; I just can't get over the dreaded kill-everything-bad-switch, which I do not want in a good ending.

And saying how "a small team of modders did what the professional writers could not" isn't really fair to them (the writers). Stripping a couple of .. shall we say, unsatisfying scenes off the ending and tinkering with a couple of others doesn't make it original work. Now I don't have a problem with that, I just disagree with that statement.
[/quote]

but sadly, the killswitch was introduced in the 2nd mission. we have to live with that.
[/quote][/quote]

Sure, but my point was that it's use at least has a negative repercussion for each of the 3 choices. Using it to just kill reapers and nothing else seems cheap and I'm sure that kind of ending would've received the same amount of criticism.

[Dr_Extrem]

Redbelle wrote...

A shame that for all the strength's of the Reapers, the writers never once seemed to consider how their strength's could be rendered into a weakness.

In MP I've shut down several indoctrination boosters. One of these, handed over to alliance R&D could had proved the starting point to block the indoc signal to prevent more troops going over to the Reapers, and by attacking the Reapers forced ideology weapon with a similar weapon. Also paving the way for an discussion on what Shepard would do with a weapon that bends ppl to it's will once the war with the Reapers is over. A potential plot point that mirrors discussion on the development of WMD's.

One major problem I have with the crucible though? It just doesn't fit in neatly with the plot. We send ppl to it but we never ever really see it aside from that one time under construction. And again when it is deployed. A mission at it's build location, or a mission briefing there to give us a sense of location would have been nice.

the whole plot of the 3rd game is weak ...
the story arc is mor and more exchanged by an emotional arc - priority: earth is a perfect exsample - the thinner the plot gets, more tears get j***ed.
that leads to another problem: this emotional roalercoaster with:

- hopelessness
- farewells
- emergency evac
- the last "i love you"
- badly injured shepard
- anderson to die in front of us
- presumed death (grasping / blackout) 

after that, the emotional tension gets not discharged. we only get to chose our poison without being able to effectivly object. on top of that, the choices are presented by "by the book" deus es machina. its hobsons choice.

after that, we get an epilogue, that shows us what happens / could happen in the next few hundred years. the fact that 2 of three endings are representing eternal changes (control & synthesis), that are difficult to assess in the long run, is a bit dubious.