889 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

(1) "I'll give you my conclusions," Jason said, twisting in the chair, trying to find a comfortable position for his aching bones. "I've been doing a lot of thinking the last day or two, searching for the answer. The very first thing I realized, was that the perfect and logical solution wouldn't do at all. I'm afraid the old ideal of the lion lying down with the lamb doesn't work out in practice. About all it does is make a fast lunch for the lion. Ideally, now that you all know the real causes of your trouble, you should tear down the perimeter and have the city and forest people mingle in brotherly love. Makes just as pretty a picture as the one of lion and lamb. And would undoubtedly have the same result. Someone would remember how really filthy the grubbers are, or how stupid junkmen can be, and there would be a fresh corpse cooling. The fight would spread and the victors would be eaten by the wildlife that swarmed over the undefended perimeter. No, the answer isn't that easy."

(2) "If we're going to find a decent plan for the future, we'll have to take inertia into consideration. Mental inertia for one. Just because you know a thing is true in theory, doesn't make it true in fact. The barbaric religions of primitive worlds hold not a germ of scientific fact, though they claim to explain all. Yet if one of these savages has all the logical ground
for his beliefs taken away—he doesn't stop believing. He then calls his mistaken beliefs 'faith' because he knows they are right. And he knows they are right because he has faith. This is an unbreakable circle of false logic that can't be touched. In reality, it is plain mental inertia. A case of thinking 'what always was' will also 'always be.' And not wanting to blast the thinking patterns out of the old rut.

(3) "Mental inertia alone is not going to cause trouble—there is cultural inertia, too. Some of you in this room believe my conclusions and would like to change. But will all your people change? The unthinking ones, the habit-ridden, reflex-formed people who know what is now, will always be. They'll act like a drag on whatever plans you make, whatever attempts you undertake to progress with the new knowledge you have." "Then it's useless—there's no hope for our world?" Rhes asked.

...Harry Harrison, "Deathworld", 1960.



(1) Completely destroying one of two conflicting entities, or attempting to create an artificial empathy between them will never do anything good. Nature will always find the way, and the history will always repeat itself. Destroying or maintaining forever the "Perimeter" (Reapers) between those two entities is also bad idea.

(2) A nice analogy to IT: "Yet if one of these savages has all the logical ground for his beliefs taken away—he doesn't stop believing."... And to ME3 endings' misunderstanding in general: "And not wanting to blast the thinking patterns out of the old rut.".

(3) Will organics ever stop to make the same mistakes again if the Reapers will be destroyed? No. Will creating synthetics and AIs in case of Destroy will become a taboo? No. Is Destroy at least any different from Refusal? The only difference is the number of casualties. Other than that Destroy and Refusal are the same.



Thoughts?

Modifié par Seival, 04 novembre 2012 - 03:14 .

[Ironhandjustice]

Obviously he did not remember that is "very similar" to Asimov's foundation cuatrilogy... right?

-Support the first foundation and kill second foundation and the IA's
-Support the second foundationd and control first foundation and destroy Ia's
-Support the IA's and make a synthesis with first and second foundations.

Very... "similar".

[DrGunjah]

bad ending is bad

[Seival]

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

A lion lying down with a lamb is logical.
Oh dear, it's a good thing time kills us.

I have a theory...

...Ask some person, who disliked ME3 ending, to read some good old sci-fi book and describe what did he understand afterwards, and that person will call the book "nonsence" or "nice adventure".

[Isichar]

You know OP, you have a good topic, you make some good points. But its buried in such pro-ender opinionated BS that its a bit hard to read which is too bad.

May as well change the topic name to "More reasons why the people who dislike the ending are wrong" and it would basically hold the same value.

[Ironhandjustice]

Seival wrote...

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

A lion lying down with a lamb is logical.
Oh dear, it's a good thing time kills us.

I have a theory...

...Ask some person, who disliked ME3 ending, to read some good old sci-fi book and describe what did he understand afterwards, and that person will call the book "nonsence" or "nice adventure".

I have another theory...

...Ask some person, who liked ME3 ending, to explain the same thing.

He will have the same idea that the one who disliked.

To make a generalization about intelligence based on an opinion is so nonsensical that deserves no answer.

"All the generalizations are false. Even this one".

/thread.

[Zardoc]

Define "genius".





...wait, Seival thread, nevermind.

[DrGunjah]

Zardoc wrote...
...wait, Seival thread, nevermind.

this

[Mcfly616]

Ironhandjustice wrote...

Obviously he did not remember that is "very similar" to Asimov's foundation cuatrilogy... right?

-Support the first foundation and kill second foundation and the IA's
-Support the second foundationd and control first foundation and destroy Ia's
-Support the IA's and make a synthesis with first and second foundations.

Very... "similar".

the ending of Foundations Edge (the options you just listed) is the direct inspiration for the ME3 ending.


And OP: I agree. ME3 was given a classic ending of the sci fi genre. Inspired by such writers as you listed. Seems people that say they know sci fi, really just mean Star Wars and Star Trek. Otherwise they wouldn't be surprised by the ending we got. As it makes perfect sense. I'll take the classic sci fi ending over Ewoks any day of the week.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 04 novembre 2012 - 04:13 .

[BD Manchild]

Oh my dear sweet lord, there is so much ignorance and tripe in the OP that it can only be produced by a massive blowhard. You're basically going out of your way to insult everyone who disliked the endings, aren't you?

Actually, the EC came about because of the exact same assumptions made in this thread; that the audience was simply too thick to "understand" the ending. We understood it, alright, and it didn't need explaining; it needed to not be a load of tripe that somehow managed to derail the story of the entire series in ten minutes. Your analogies don't work because, in epic sci-fi stories, there is still foreshadowing for these kinds of endings and they feel like a natural conclusion to what's come before. ME3's ending doesn't; it's an attempt to be "deep" and "meaningful" (even though it's really utterly simplistic and flat-out nonsensical) at the cost of being thematically and narratively consistent with the rest of the series. It is just a bad, bad ending, and frankly thinking any writer of sci-fi would approve is a huge, huge assumption.

Modifié par BD Manchild, 04 novembre 2012 - 04:18 .

[Isichar]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Ironhandjustice wrote...

Obviously he did not remember that is "very similar" to Asimov's foundation cuatrilogy... right?

-Support the first foundation and kill second foundation and the IA's
-Support the second foundationd and control first foundation and destroy Ia's
-Support the IA's and make a synthesis with first and second foundations.

Very... "similar".

the ending of Foundations Edge (the options you just listed) is the direct inspiration for the ME3 ending.


And OP: I agree. ME3 was given a classic ending of the sci fi genre. Inspired by such writers as you listed. Seems people that say they know sci fi, really just mean Star Wars and Star Trek. I'll take the classic sci fi ending over Ewoks any day of the week.

So in other words:

Anyone who dislikes the ending does not know classic Sci-fi and anyone who likes it does?

[Seival]

Isichar wrote...

You know OP, you have a good topic, you make some good points. But its buried in such pro-ender opinionated BS that its a bit hard to read which is too bad.

May as well change the topic name to "More reasons why the people who dislike the ending are wrong" and it would basically hold the same value.

I think that name you suggested would be incorrect. I'm not going to tell anyone "you are wrong" in this thread. I'd rather make an assumption that any good sci-fi writer would love ME Story, and especially its ending.

[Zardoc]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Ironhandjustice wrote...

Obviously he did not remember that is "very similar" to Asimov's foundation cuatrilogy... right?

-Support the first foundation and kill second foundation and the IA's
-Support the second foundationd and control first foundation and destroy Ia's
-Support the IA's and make a synthesis with first and second foundations.

Very... "similar".

the ending of Foundations Edge (the options you just listed) is the direct inspiration for the ME3 ending.


And OP: I agree. ME3 was given a classic ending of the sci fi genre. Inspired by such writers as you listed. Seems people that say they know sci fi, really just mean Star Wars and Star Trek. Otherwise they wouldn't be surprised by the ending we got. As it makes perfect sense. I'll take the classic sci fi ending over Ewoks any day of the week.

[Isichar]

Seival wrote...

Isichar wrote...

You know OP, you have a good topic, you make some good points. But its buried in such pro-ender opinionated BS that its a bit hard to read which is too bad.

May as well change the topic name to "More reasons why the people who dislike the ending are wrong" and it would basically hold the same value.

I think that name you suggested would be incorrect. I'm not going to tell anyone "you are wrong" in this thread. I'd rather make an assumption that any good sci-fi writer would love ME Story, and especially its ending.

Thats perfectly fine, again I think the topic you have made in itself is a good discussion, but theres a clear feeling I get from this and I know many others will that you are going out of your way to challange the anti-enders rather then actually discuss the topic of Sci-fiction writers opinions and how traditional sci-fi's have ended in comparison to ME3, since it is true ME3 gained much inspirations from such works.

I get the impression you genuinely believe what you are saying and not just trolling, but again your entire post just wreaks of the intent to challange the anti-enders and argue that you are going to attract much more flaming in your topic then actual discussion on the topic. Just saying I think you took a good topic and turned it into another flame thread.

[Mcfly616]

Isichar wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Ironhandjustice wrote...

Obviously he did not remember that is "very similar" to Asimov's foundation cuatrilogy... right?

-Support the first foundation and kill second foundation and the IA's
-Support the second foundationd and control first foundation and destroy Ia's
-Support the IA's and make a synthesis with first and second foundations.

Very... "similar".

the ending of Foundations Edge (the options you just listed) is the direct inspiration for the ME3 ending.


And OP: I agree. ME3 was given a classic ending of the sci fi genre. Inspired by such writers as you listed. Seems people that say they know sci fi, really just mean Star Wars and Star Trek. I'll take the classic sci fi ending over Ewoks any day of the week.

So in other words:

Anyone who dislikes the ending does not know classic Sci-fi and anyone who likes it does?

did I say that? No, I didn't. I said "some people". Though, it would seem that those that dont like the ending, wouldn't really be satisfied by the majority of classic sci fi novels written in the last 50 years.

For so many people that are calling the OP "ignorant", I find it funny that they're getting upset. Hell, if anything Pro-Enders have some catching up to do in the ignorance department. That's a fact. Every thread I've seen that praises the end, or simply tries to discuss it, turns into a bashfest once the Anti-Enders see it. Troll after troll, jumping in simply to post: "NO. The Ending SUCKS!" or "its a pile of crap" or "its nonsensical and doesn't go with the themes of Mass Effect!".....Riiiight.

The term "ignorant" is a moot and hypocritical point on these forums.....well, if you're asking me atleast. You yourself are doing a fine job of sounding entitled

[dreman9999]

Zardoc wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Ironhandjustice wrote...

Obviously he did not remember that is "very similar" to Asimov's foundation cuatrilogy... right?

-Support the first foundation and kill second foundation and the IA's
-Support the second foundationd and control first foundation and destroy Ia's
-Support the IA's and make a synthesis with first and second foundations.

Very... "similar".

the ending of Foundations Edge (the options you just listed) is the direct inspiration for the ME3 ending.


And OP: I agree. ME3 was given a classic ending of the sci fi genre. Inspired by such writers as you listed. Seems people that say they know sci fi, really just mean Star Wars and Star Trek. Otherwise they wouldn't be surprised by the ending we got. As it makes perfect sense. I'll take the classic sci fi ending over Ewoks any day of the week.

A game of hypatheticals to see how you react makes no sense?

Modifié par dreman9999, 04 novembre 2012 - 04:29 .

[Seival]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Ironhandjustice wrote...

Obviously he did not remember that is "very similar" to Asimov's foundation cuatrilogy... right?

-Support the first foundation and kill second foundation and the IA's
-Support the second foundationd and control first foundation and destroy Ia's
-Support the IA's and make a synthesis with first and second foundations.

Very... "similar".

the ending of Foundations Edge (the options you just listed) is the direct inspiration for the ME3 ending.


And OP: I agree. ME3 was given a classic ending of the sci fi genre. Inspired by such writers as you listed. Seems people that say they know sci fi, really just mean Star Wars and Star Trek. Otherwise they wouldn't be surprised by the ending we got. As it makes perfect sense. I'll take the classic sci fi ending over Ewoks any day of the week.

Indeed. The ending makes perfect sense. And I'll also take classic sci-fi ending over Ewoks any day of the week.

I really hope BioWare will continue to create truly sci-fi stories. And my best hope is the next ME Universe game.

Modifié par Seival, 04 novembre 2012 - 04:30 .

[Mcfly616]

Zardoc wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Ironhandjustice wrote...

Obviously he did not remember that is "very similar" to Asimov's foundation cuatrilogy... right?

-Support the first foundation and kill second foundation and the IA's
-Support the second foundationd and control first foundation and destroy Ia's
-Support the IA's and make a synthesis with first and second foundations.

Very... "similar".

the ending of Foundations Edge (the options you just listed) is the direct inspiration for the ME3 ending.


And OP: I agree. ME3 was given a classic ending of the sci fi genre. Inspired by such writers as you listed. Seems people that say they know sci fi, really just mean Star Wars and Star Trek. Otherwise they wouldn't be surprised by the ending we got. As it makes perfect sense. I'll take the classic sci fi ending over Ewoks any day of the week.

Ahh thanks for demonstrating my point. Clear proof that pro Enders have a lot of catching up to do in the ignorance department.

[dreman9999]

Isichar wrote...

Seival wrote...

Isichar wrote...

You know OP, you have a good topic, you make some good points. But its buried in such pro-ender opinionated BS that its a bit hard to read which is too bad.

May as well change the topic name to "More reasons why the people who dislike the ending are wrong" and it would basically hold the same value.

I think that name you suggested would be incorrect. I'm not going to tell anyone "you are wrong" in this thread. I'd rather make an assumption that any good sci-fi writer would love ME Story, and especially its ending.

Thats perfectly fine, again I think the topic you have made in itself is a good discussion, but theres a clear feeling I get from this and I know many others will that you are going out of your way to challange the anti-enders rather then actually discuss the topic of Sci-fiction writers opinions and how traditional sci-fi's have ended in comparison to ME3, since it is true ME3 gained much inspirations from such works.

I get the impression you genuinely believe what you are saying and not just trolling, but again your entire post just wreaks of the intent to challange the anti-enders and argue that you are going to attract much more flaming in your topic then actual discussion on the topic. Just saying I think you took a good topic and turned it into another flame thread.

The entire poitn of these types of topic is to challenge any one who doe snot like the ending to look at it in another perspective.
If the issue with the topic is that it will cause conflict , then you need to take in mind that conflict does cause progression.

[Grubas]

It dosn't make sense. It feels forced. If you leave out as many things as have been dumped in ME3 the audience at last deserves an epic conclusion story and gameplaywise.
Its a bad idea to suddenly go on the art train, just because its cheaper and creates less work.
If so, bw should have kept up the style the whole game long.

[Isichar]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Ironhandjustice wrote...

Obviously he did not remember that is "very similar" to Asimov's foundation cuatrilogy... right?

-Support the first foundation and kill second foundation and the IA's
-Support the second foundationd and control first foundation and destroy Ia's
-Support the IA's and make a synthesis with first and second foundations.

Very... "similar".

the ending of Foundations Edge (the options you just listed) is the direct inspiration for the ME3 ending.


And OP: I agree. ME3 was given a classic ending of the sci fi genre. Inspired by such writers as you listed. Seems people that say they know sci fi, really just mean Star Wars and Star Trek. I'll take the classic sci fi ending over Ewoks any day of the week.

So in other words:

Anyone who dislikes the ending does not know classic Sci-fi and anyone who likes it does?

did I say that? No, I didn't. I said "some people". Though, it would seem that those that dont like the ending, wouldn't really be satisfied by the majority of classic sci fi novels written in the last 50 years.

For so many people that are calling the OP "ignorant", I find it funny that they're getting upset. Hell, if anything Pro-Enders have some catching up to do in the ignorance department. That's a fact. Every thread I've seen that praises the end, or simply tries to discuss it, turns into a bashfest once the Anti-Enders see it. Troll after troll, jumping in simply to post: "NO. The Ending SUCKS!" or "its a pile of crap" or "its nonsensical and doesn't go with the themes of Mass Effect!".....Riiiight.

The term "ignorant" is a moot and hypocritical point on these forums.....well, if you're asking me atleast. You yourself are doing a fine job of sounding entitled

Orly?

Maybe you should read what you typed before you proceed to retell me.

And if you want to be perfectly honest Mcfly your basically on the top of my list of people that will mindlessly bash others beliefs you disagree with and that list includes both pro-enders and anti-enders. You have the exact same problem as the people you complain about, except your on the other side.

Modifié par Isichar, 04 novembre 2012 - 04:33 .

[Ajensis]

Sci-fi writers aren't any different from other writers, and one of the safe things you can assume is that they have *widely* different opinions and points of view. So the idea that 'any good sci-fi writer would love the ending' is something I find very hard to agree with.

Also, can't we put an end to the superiority stance? For both sides. I'm not intellectually inferior just because you see some genius aspects in the ending where I don't, just like you're not [insert whatever veiled insult an anti-ender would throw your way] because you liked it. We're both fans of the same game with different opinions on its last few minutes.