889 réponses à ce sujet

[Kabooooom]

Ah those were the days. Seeing a Seival theory or appreciation thread, or one of those by that guy who said Cerberus were right, and spamming it to destruction.

I definitely just reflexively read this in a Garrus voice in my head lol.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Only sci fi writer, that I know has weighed in on the issue, is Melinda Snodgrass.
Her view of the subject even after EC was not ending favorable. Did get her thinking though.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 05 novembre 2012 - 10:58 .

[3DandBeyond]

dreamgazer wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

If so, she would have to be placed on a reservation on some remote planet until she gets right in the head again.

I have got to find that thread.

That's the triple synthesis theory and suggestion for BW, where the OP (Seival) believes people who don't want to undergo synthesis that will one day happen (apparently the relays will somehow on their own make it work or someone will activate the process using the relays) will be rounded up and transported to some other planet and the relay to that system will be shut off so they can't be synthesized.  They will be put on reservations as Seival called them.  Apparently, he has no concept as to how any of this would be accomplished, but then believes in triple synthesis that all the outcomes should involve fighting Cerberus (because you can never have enough of them), for some reason I have yet to understand.  And I really don't want to.  There is only so much I can take in one lifetime.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 05 novembre 2012 - 11:01 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Now that one was golden.

Not as good as the Normandy fleeing the wave of light being a test-run for the reconstructed Relays, but still pretty ace.

[M Hedonist]

3DandBeyond wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

If so, she would have to be placed on a reservation on some remote planet until she gets right in the head again.

I have got to find that thread.

That's the triple synthesis theory and suggestion for BW, where the OP (Seival) believes people who don't want to undergo synthesis that will one day happen (apparently the relays will somehow on their own make it work or someone will activate the process using the relays) will be rounded up and transported to some other planet and the relay to that system will be shut off so they can't be synthesized.  They will be put on reservations as Seival called them.  Apparently, he has no concept as to how any of this would be accomplished, but then believes in triple synthesis that all the outcomes should involve fighting Cerberus (because you can never have enough of them), for some reason I have yet to understand.  And I really don't want to.  There is only so much I can take in one lifetime.

Holy ****. I definitely have to visit this forum more often.

[tanisha__unknown]

Read the title, thought OP was a SciFi writer and likes the ending...

[ld1449]

dreamgazer wrote...



I can, thank you. And they're there in ME3, too---in the entire series, actually. Also, Dark Souls recently made a "worst ending" list, pretty close in rank to the ending you're hating now.

The person on that list claimed it was unsatisfying considering the effort taken to get there.

Considering how difficult the game is and how lackluster the implementation of the ending is, I'd have to agree. It is unsatisfying. It is not however, unequivocably bad by contrast.

dreamgazer wrote...

Why is that? Why is asking the audience for their own perception of the entire story arc, beyond the surface-level, some form of failure---especially in the last moments of the trilogy? Provoking them to do so is actually really damn intriguing, despite the hiccups in execution.

There's a difference between asking the audience for their interpretation of events and characters (The comic book version of V for Vendetta being a PERFECT example, since you're able to decide for yourself weather V is a terrorist vigilantee or a noble freedom fighter.

That book gives you every piece of the puzzle and you can take and discard what you wish from it to determine for yourself what is what.

This thing just gives you the tile board. Go make the tiles yourself and put em in there. yourself. All we did was gave you the place mat.

Well **** I could have done that without paying 60 dollars.

You're advocating audience interpretation just for the sake of having audience interpretation. Weather the ideas were good (which they're really not) and the execution was screwed up, or the execution was great but the ideas ****ed up is largely irrelevant because the botom line is that the long and short of it "sucks" plain and simple.

dreamgazer wrote...
... which borrowed a similar decision-making paradigm that has persevered in science-fiction for quite a long time. It wasn't the first, and it won't be the last.

This is like saying a waterwheel is the same as a Hidro electric plant.

Almost every RPG has "decision" endings.

Not every RPG has the same options of

"Control the Illuminati/Reapers and lead the world"

"Destroy them and the Technology they use"

"Synthesize into a new higher form of life"

You don't see me comparing ME3's ending to Fable 2 do you?

dreamgazer wrote...

Thanks for reading! I tend to steer away from being a belligerent jagoff as often as I can.

Keep trying, some day you might just suceed.

[The Night Mammoth]

Jinx1720 wrote...

Read the title, thought OP was a SciFi writer and likes the ending...

You thought Sieval might have credibility...

Ohohohohoho, no, Sieval just has some entirely personal rules abut sci-fi he invented to justify why he likes ME3 and why everyone who doesn't is too stupid to be take the time to understand it. 

When that fails, he quotes actual professionals, but fails to connect what he quotes, with context or meaning or relevancy. This thread is a perfect example. 

[drayfish]

anorling wrote...

+100

But seriously though drayfish. Stop arguing with Seival if you want to keep your sanity
Seival is so lost in his own delusional musings you'll never be able to reach out to him. No matter how compelling arguments you present  
It doesn't matter what you say. He'll just stick his fingers his ears and go La La La.

No, anorling...  I can do it...  I can sense the sane in him.

I'm sure that my mind won't be broken if I just keep following his reasoning down...

[drayfish]

I NOW AGREE WITH SEIVAL!

ALL WRITERS CAN BE COMPARED WITH MASS EFFECT!



Example:

Mark Twain would love ME3 ending.  As would any genius writer!

'I admit also that I am not a friend of the poor man. I regard the poor man, in his present condition, as so much wasted raw material. Cut up and properly canned, he might be made useful to fatten the natives of the cannibal islands and to improve our export trade with that region. I shall recommend legislation upon the subject in my first message. My campaign cry will be: "Desiccate the poor workingman; stuff him into sausages."

'These are about the worst parts of my record. On them I come before the country. If my country don't want me, I will go back again. But I recommend myself as a safe man -- a man who starts from the basis of total depravity and proposes to be fiendish to the last.'

- Mark Twain, 'A Presidential Candidate'


MARK TWAIN IS A REAPER!


(1) Mark Twain believes that organics should be exterminated, turned into paste, and used as a biomechanical fuel to power unholy dreadnoughts of destruction that will wipe existence clean every 50 millenia.

(2) He wants to preserve us and allow less technologically advanced cultures to rise in the future.  He believes that it is the only way to make us 'safe'.

(3) Mark Twain prefers 3rd Person shooters with mild RPG elements to RTS games.


Thoughts?

Modifié par drayfish, 05 novembre 2012 - 11:20 .

[M Hedonist]

drayfish wrote...

anorling wrote...

+100

But seriously though drayfish. Stop arguing with Seival if you want to keep your sanity
Seival is so lost in his own delusional musings you'll never be able to reach out to him. No matter how compelling arguments you present  
It doesn't matter what you say. He'll just stick his fingers his ears and go La La La.

No, anorling...  I can do it...  I can sense the sane in him.

I'm sure that my mind won't be broken if I just keep following his reasoning down...

Oh no. Don't. Trust me. This road you're walking on isn't leading anywhere.

[M Hedonist]

drayfish wrote...


I NOW AGREE WITH SEIVAL!

ALL WRITERS CAN BE COMPARED WITH MASS EFFECT!



Example:

Mark Twain would love ME3 ending.  As would any genius writer!

'I admit also that I am not a friend of the poor man. I regard the poor man, in his present condition, as so much wasted raw material. Cut up and properly canned, he might be made useful to fatten the natives of the cannibal islands and to improve our export trade with that region. I shall recommend legislation upon the subject in my first message. My campaign cry will be: "Desiccate the poor workingman; stuff him into sausages."

'These are about the worst parts of my record. On them I come before the country. If my country don't want me, I will go back again. But I recommend myself as a safe man -- a man who starts from the basis of total depravity and proposes to be fiendish to the last.'

- Mark Twain, 'A Presidential Candidate'


MARK TWAIN IS A REAPER!


(1) Mark Twain believes that organics should be exterminated, turned into paste, and used as a biomechanical fuel to power unholy dreadnoughts of destruction that will wipe existence clean every 50 millenia.

(2) He wants to preserve us and allow less technologically advanced cultures to rise in the future.  He believes that it is the only way to make us 'safe'.

(3) Mark Twain prefers 3rd Person shooters with mild RPG elements to RTS games.


Thoughts?

Ok, this was awesomely hilarious.
Keep going.

[tracesaint]

I am quite conflicted about the final 4 choices and Priority: Earth. The final Earth mission feels kind of cool without the music, no heroics just be smart and don't die because this is it. I would have liked to see more war assets used, but I also like not being everywhere and seeing everything. The final four choices make sense to me, and being able to win conventionally would invalidate all the previous cycles attempts to win. Maybe the Catalyst could think of two or three more choices. Go to Mexico and ride it out for a few hundred years maybe?
I need to read the Foundation novels. I own two of them.

[Kabooooom]

That's the triple synthesis theory and suggestion for BW, where the OP (Seival) believes people who don't want to undergo synthesis that will one day happen (apparently the relays will somehow on their own make it work or someone will activate the process using the relays) will be rounded up and transported to some other planet and the relay to that system will be shut off so they can't be synthesized. They will be put on reservations as Seival called them. Apparently, he has no concept as to how any of this would be accomplished, but then believes in triple synthesis that all the outcomes should involve fighting Cerberus (because you can never have enough of them), for some reason I have yet to understand. And I really don't want to. There is only so much I can take in one lifetime.

What's funny is that the Catalyst's "synthesis is inevitable, the galaxy will eventually reach synthesis" comment heavily implies that it will occur no matter what you choose. But, it would obviously occur because it is a natural endpoint of continued organic integration with synthetic technology, not because of God-shepard, the relays, or an exploding rebuilt Crucible. Lmao.

I'm not sure how he leaped from point A to deduction C by inventing all manner of headcanon in B. It's almost as good as the Normandy test run theory. Almost. Aw who am I kidding that one takes the cake. There is literally no way to follow those posts because there is no logical deduction there that lets you connect the dots. It's just a big wtfallovertheplace.

Modifié par Kabooooom, 05 novembre 2012 - 11:31 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Sauruz wrote...

drayfish wrote...

anorling wrote...

+100

But seriously though drayfish. Stop arguing with Seival if you want to keep your sanity
Seival is so lost in his own delusional musings you'll never be able to reach out to him. No matter how compelling arguments you present  
It doesn't matter what you say. He'll just stick his fingers his ears and go La La La.

No, anorling...  I can do it...  I can sense the sane in him.

I'm sure that my mind won't be broken if I just keep following his reasoning down...

Oh no. Don't. Trust me. This road you're walking on isn't leading anywhere.

He's right, you know, drayfish. 

Reason and logic don't work on Sieval. He's immune. 

[drayfish]

ALL WRITERS CAN BE COMPARED WITH MASS EFFECT!



Example:

Mary Shelley would love ME3 ending.  As would any genius writer!


“Hateful day when I received life!' I exclaimed in agony. 'Accursed creator! Why did you form a monster so hideous that even you turned from me in disgust? God, in pity, made man beautiful and alluring, after his own image; but my form is a filthy type of yours, more horrid even from the very resemlance. Satan had his companions, fellow-devils, to admire and encourage him; but I am solitary and abhorred.'
 
- Mary Shelley, Frankenstein


MARY SHELLEY SUPPORTS SYNTHESIS!


(1) Mary Shelley believes that the only way in which to achieve peace is to forcibly reconstitute and mutate all DNA throughout the universe, arrogantly imposing a singular definition of life upon every sapient creature.

(2) She believes that the only way in which to achieve racial harmony is to fundamentally wipe all biological distinction from life, because only then will wars end and conflicts subside.

(3) Mary Shelley believes that every post-mutated synthetic should have a USB port that can synch with their iPod.


Thoughts?

Modifié par drayfish, 06 novembre 2012 - 12:36 .

[BearlyHere]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Only sci fi writer, that I know has weighed in on the issue, is Melinda Snodgrass.
Her view of the subject even after EC was not ending favorable. Did get her thinking though.

There was another one too, though I can't remember who it was. I think he was quoted in Forbes. His conclusion was the story itself isn't very good SF, and the endings fail.

[drayfish]

ALL WRITERS CAN BE COMPARED WITH MASS EFFECT!



Example:

A.A. Milne would love ME3 ending. As would any genius writer!


“What I like doing best is Nothing."

"How do you do Nothing," asked Pooh after he had wondered for a long time.

"Well, it's when people call out at you just as you're going off to do it, 'What are you going to do, Christopher Robin?' and you say, 'Oh, Nothing,' and then you go and do it.

It means just going along, listening to all the things you can't hear, and not bothering."

"Oh!" said Pooh.”

- A. A. Milne, Winnie the Pooh


A.A. MILNE SUPPORTS CONTROL!


(1) A.A. Milne believes that forcing Control upon the universe and becoming the self-appointed Uber-Leader of all existence through the mind-control of other species is the only way to secure safety and allow people to be happy.

(2) He believes that as all Bears have 'Very Little Brain', they cannot protect themselves, and must therefore be governed by a totalitarian, omnipresent, unstoppable galactic overlord.

(3) He believes that the Heffalump is a real and continued danger that must be guarded against, even at the expense of personal autonomy and freedom.


Thoughts?

Modifié par drayfish, 06 novembre 2012 - 12:16 .

[paul165]

Archonsg wrote...

@zan51

Huh.
Could have sworn the Dr said something like that.
I blame it on my aging mind.

Will need to check The Prisoner out too.

Speaking of Sci-Fi military books, so far one of the "better" ones I can think of, are the Lost Fleet series by Jack Campbell, due to rather meticulous portrayal of time lapse and combat in a 3D environment. 

Any suggestions, in your opinion, of a good military sci-fi book or series?

David Drake I rather like his earlier stuff Hammer's Slammers mainly can be extremely dark whilst his later stuff (RCN) gets a bit more cheerful. Regardless he tends to focus on a realistic portrayal of the costs and tactics of the military actions in his universes. He also wrote some extremely highly rated fantasy but I don't get on with that sadly.

[The Night Mammoth]

drayfish wrote...

(3) He believes that the Heffalump is a real and continued danger that must be guarded against, even at the expense of personal autonomy and freedom.


Thoughts?

This makes him sound like Al Gore and that Man Bear Pig business. 

[drayfish]

ALL WRITERS CAN BE COMPARED WITH MASS EFFECT!



Example:

Jim Davis would love ME3 ending. As would any genius writer!


'I'll rise, but I won't shine.'

'Never trust a smiling cat.'

'The meek shall inherit squat.'

'All I do is eat and sleep. Eat and sleep. Eat and sleep. There must be more to a cat's life than that. But I hope not.'

'You can scratch my chair, you can insult my mother, you can beat up my dog, and you can play with my rubber mousie...but you don't eat my food and you don't sleep in my bed.'

- Jim Davis, Garfield


JIM DAVIS SUPPORTS DESTROY!


(1) Jim Davis believes that the only way to stop a cycle of galactic devastation and genocide is to agree to commit an act of genocide upon friendly allies at your enemy's request.  Only by wiping out the people that you are fighting to protect can you prove that you didn't need to kill them in the first place.

(2) Garfield, although generally mild mannered, when pushed into an impossible situation, will eat all of the lasagne rather than let it - as it inevitably will - rise up to challenge, oppress, and eventually exterminate all biological life.  At least by eating all of the lasagne Garfield breaks the cycle and life can go on.

(3) Garfield hates Mondays.  Jim Davis is clearly saying that the only way to break the Reaper's indoctrination attempt is to commit a fantastically improbable suicide, at your sworn enemy's urging, risking the complete annihilation of all life in the universe.


Thoughts?

Modifié par drayfish, 06 novembre 2012 - 12:59 .

[The Night Mammoth]

That one was the best yet.

Personally, I think Garfield's relationship with Odie is a perfect analogy to the eternal conflict between organics, represented by the arrogant, selfish cat, and the synthetics, respresented by the naive and optimistic dog. Despite being repeatedly trodden on by Garfields sadistic dislike for him, Odie, much like the Geth, is willing to look past it all.

[Zan51]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

as a professional writer 

- would you come up with a "deus ex machina" in one of your books?
- did i get the right impression, that the background plot of the first 2 games are not conform with the one of the 3rd game?
- why do you think, the endings feel "out of place" to a lot of people?


thanks in advance for answering

Apologies for a late reply, I am out at work for 11 hours so just home.



A Deus ex Machina is the easy way out. I work very hard on my writing and do my best to plot it out carefully and in fact have an almost scene by scene layout of a novel before I start writing it. Having said that, I am in charge and can change anything in the plan if the writing opens up a new avenue I hadn't thought of in the planning stage. When I knew it was becoming a series I started laying out the broad strokes of the overall story too.

Oh, I feel they are definitely related but it is pretty clear that other fingers were on the pulse of each one as each has its own distinctive feel, yet is part of the whole. However, the general feel of 3 is quite different from the other 2, in my opinion. The ending from the whole beam of light is totally different, though, it feels unconnected. 
Suddenly you go from following orders to working for the enemy to solve their problems.  To be honest it is like
Hitler taking someone like Churchill prisoner and asking him to help with the holocaust as the solution to the German economy.  
WW2 involved annexing land and resources and stealing them from their Jewish owners, like the major shipyards and steelworks. People nowadays don't learn that in history classes, but we in the UK did. And yes, I find the ending that distasteful. Of course, other folk are entitled to their own opinions, I am just one person here.  

I personally find them out of place for the above reasons. The grand expose of the star child/catalyst and the crucible having been designed to work with the citadel when no one knew of either the connection or
the star child's existence was too convenient by far. Too many major plot holes.  Abandoning the mission that
Hackett pushed Shepard toward all through the game suddenly in the last 10 minutes, was bizarre to say the least.

People naturally look for patterns in everything, it is a hard wired skill of ours.
Read this - http://www.internet-...n_matching.html
 
Many could find no logical patterns leading to those endings, so we were left dissatisfied, looking for more,
looking for the logic, the pattern. And as it is done at a subconscious level, you cannot say we just "don't get it" because it isn't there to get, or that pattern seeking part of our subconscious would not remain unsatisfied.

That's my simple version. Other more elaborate and equally valid and correct dissertations have happened on these forums, and I have enjoyed reading them immensely, but at the root level, I believe this is what is telling us to seek for meaning that isn't there.

Modifié par Zan51, 06 novembre 2012 - 08:07 .