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[Dr_Extrem]

Seival wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

... DNA is a rule? A RULE? Did you even pass biochemistry 101? Did you even *attend* biochemistry 101?

Of cource it is. You don't have to be a scientist to know that.

Such scientific terms describe the mechanics of some particular processes, not "createting a picture of microscopical fraction".

superficial knowledge is more dangerous than knowing nothing.

[Davik Kang]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...
...
Deus Ex: Human Revolution *worked* because *the entire game* was about the themes of the ending. It led you to consider the different points of view, the different possibilities *well before* you had to make the choice.

It doesn't matter how much thought Mac and Casey put into the endings. They *failed* to tie the endings into the rest of the games *narrative*. Mass Effect was never about Synthetics vs. Organics; that was a subtheme.

I am requoting this post because it is a good post and I like it.

I don't see how Mass Effect was never about Synthetics vs Organics.  Or even more, how the entire trilogy was not about control, synthesis and destroying the Reapers.  That's EXACTLY what it was about.

It's pointless to have this discussion in this thread, but tbh the quoted post is a bizarre thing to support.

[Redbelle]

Seival wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Seival wrote...
ME3 never throw any random concepts. The ending and everything we learned before are the organic whole.

Organic-vs-synthetic problem was there from the very beginning. Everything was coming to what we've seen in ME3 ending. Ending was unpredictable, and it showed us what the story is about, and that was brilliant. Everything that happend before matters.

Right the Krogan arc had everything to do with the Synthetics organics conflict, as did our action agains the collectors/ sarcasm.
The conflcit being present, and resolved before hand I might add, doesn't make it the central theme. We've had machines standing with us against the Reapers since ME2, we might still be fighting Reapers but we're fighting them because they're a faction trying to kill us, not because they're synthetics and all synthetics are bad. Much like we're not fighting Cerberus because they're organic but because they're a faction trying to kill us.

The whole Krogan arc was a perfect example of how artificial temporary solutions ruin themselves eventually. The "synthetics on our side" arc was the perfect example of how the exception to the rule approves the rule. Any peace between too different entities can remain only temporary...

...Those arcs fit the story and its ending just perfectly. You just failed to see the whole picture.

No, we saw and played through the whole picture as you put it. someone just pulled the picture off the jigsaw puzzle pieces and glued them onto others. You can still see the picture but it's a muddle and takes alot of time and effort to picture what it should look like in your head.

Still a crappy jigsaw though.

[Davik Kang]

Greylycantrope wrote...
Wasn't going by Revan when he met Davik, he was going by Manly McBeefington in my case.

Wilhelm Handsolo in mine 
However Davik, I mean me, er I, had a feeling I'd seen him someplace before...

[TakedaMauro]

Seival wrote...

Star Wars title is just silly adventure without any good story. Just action, action, more action, and overhyped popularity. Completely empty and useless universe.

Man, did you know that Star Wars was inspired by Kurosawa's Hidden Castle, and Kurosawa's body of work is heavily inspired by Shakespeare's plays? By your own logic that ME3 is brilliant because (the ending) was inspired by classic works, then Star Wars should be a masterpiece, you can't get more classical than a combination of Kurosawa and Shakespeare.

[StarcloudSWG]

Seival wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

... DNA is a rule? A RULE? Did you even pass biochemistry 101? Did you even *attend* biochemistry 101?

Of course it is. You don't have to be a scientist to know that.

Such scientific terms describe the mechanics of some particular processes, not "creating a picture of microscopical fraction".

... Do you even know what DNA is or why it *has* to have a spiral structure? Why it's not a 'rule' but a 'fact?'

[GreyLycanTrope]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

Seival wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

... DNA is a rule? A RULE? Did you even pass biochemistry 101? Did you even *attend* biochemistry 101?

Of course it is. You don't have to be a scientist to know that.

Such scientific terms describe the mechanics of some particular processes, not "creating a picture of microscopical fraction".

... Do you even know what DNA is or why it *has* to have a spiral structure? Why it's not a 'rule' but a 'fact?'

Rosalind Franklin must be rolling in her grave

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 06 novembre 2012 - 10:24 .

[M Hedonist]

Greylycantrope wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

Seival wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

... DNA is a rule? A RULE? Did you even pass biochemistry 101? Did you even *attend* biochemistry 101?

Of course it is. You don't have to be a scientist to know that.

Such scientific terms describe the mechanics of some particular processes, not "creating a picture of microscopical fraction".

... Do you even know what DNA is or why it *has* to have a spiral structure? Why it's not a 'rule' but a 'fact?'

Rosalind Franklin must be rolling in her grave

Oh, there must be many people rolling in their graves, considering the title of this thread.

[Seival]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Seival wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

... DNA is a rule? A RULE? Did you even pass biochemistry 101? Did you even *attend* biochemistry 101?

Of cource it is. You don't have to be a scientist to know that.

Such scientific terms describe the mechanics of some particular processes, not "createting a picture of microscopical fraction".

This post hurt my biology

I assume you see DNA as just "an acid which stores genetic information"? Just like you see Reapers as Spaceship Armada hostile to Galactic Civilization... And don't even realize that they both are "rules". The first describes how "genetic information storage" works, and the second - how Catalyst's solution works...

...You don't see the meaning of the things, so how can you probably like or dislike story you don't actually understand?

[Redbelle]

Seival wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Seival wrote...

The whole Krogan arc was a perfect example of how artificial temporary solutions ruin themselves eventually. The "synthetics on our side" arc was the perfect example of how the exception to the rule approves the rule. Any peace between too different entities can remain only temporary...

...Those arcs fit the story and its ending just perfectly. You just failed to see the whole picture.

How does that arc show that artifical temporary solutions ruin themselves? You can win with or without curing the genophage. Each is a valid option, it proves nothing.
 Peace remains temporary even in synthesis and control and especially destroy. You have not attained utopia.

You can win without curing the Genophage, but Krogan can't. Genophage was developed to bring peace to the Galaxy, but it brought only doom upon one particular race: the Krogan. But before that Krogan were uplifted, used and then abandoned like annoying beasts.

Rachni were alien to everyone, were used and abandoned. Krogan were alien to everyone, were used and abandoned. Geth are alien to everyone... they were used and will be abandoned.

Alien is the key word here. Synthesis destroyes the very meaning of the word. While all other endings just provide some delay for Synthesis.

...I hope the whole picture started to appear in your head?

For all their faults, the Krogan are not beasts. They are intelligent and scared for their species, not that they would admit it being macho types. The Krogan do however have one thing going for them. They have had a chance to live through the Genophage and as a result, they have been exposed to new cultures and new ideas. The worry that brought about the genophage was that Krogan population's would increase so exponentially that Krogan culture and populations would come into conflict with others. However, Krogan have been seen trying to romance Asari. They have journeyed across space and met many new people and been exposed to many new idea's. With the right leadership krogan culture can recover using idea's from other worlds, thereby building bridges and making the Krogan see other races as potential friends. Not Varren food.

Everybody is someone elses alien. You have forgotten that the Asari, Turans, Salarians, Humans are all alien to one another yet they did not use each other and abandon them. Krogan were chosen because they are physically more able to withstand the rigours of conflict and are a race taht can replenish itself fast leading to no shortage of future soldier's. When the war was over this force suddenly had no obvious enemy and the council, of then aliens, feared that what it had created could turn on them.

Geth just get a bad rep for nearly kiling all the Quarians and being AI. Turns out the whole thing was a misunderstanding that got lost in Quarian history. Had the geth chimed in with their two cents to the council we probably would have looked on the Geth differently in ME1 other than easily disposable mooks.

To be Alien is to be unknown. And human nature compells us to explore the unknown to the point that what was once alien becomes familier. That we may not get it right each time is true. But it is also true that we can learn from our mistakes and do better the next time.

[sAxMoNkI]

Sauruz wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

Seival wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

... DNA is a rule? A RULE? Did you even pass biochemistry 101? Did you even *attend* biochemistry 101?

Of course it is. You don't have to be a scientist to know that.

Such scientific terms describe the mechanics of some particular processes, not "creating a picture of microscopical fraction".

... Do you even know what DNA is or why it *has* to have a spiral structure? Why it's not a 'rule' but a 'fact?'

Rosalind Franklin must be rolling in her grave

Oh, there must be many people rolling in their graves, considering the title of this thread.

Ironically enough many of them have planets named after them in the Mass Effect universe (Franklin included). You'd think that Seival being the all knowing prophet he/she is would have at least browsed their works.

FYI I recommend Watson and Crick's research Seival. Particularly good reads.

Modifié par sAxMoNkI, 06 novembre 2012 - 10:31 .

[Redbelle]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Alien:
1. Owing political allegiance to another country or government; foreign: alien residents.
2. Belonging to, characteristic of, or constituting another and very different place, society, or person; strange. See Synonyms at foreign.
3.  Dissimilar, inconsistent, or opposed, as in nature

It won't remove prejudice, not by a long shot. What the hell does most deadly conflict even mean? All conflict is deadly.

Even cat fights?

Never mind, I saw a cat fight once....... <shudders>

[The Night Mammoth]

Davik Kang wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...
...
Deus Ex: Human Revolution *worked* because *the entire game* was about the themes of the ending. It led you to consider the different points of view, the different possibilities *well before* you had to make the choice.

It doesn't matter how much thought Mac and Casey put into the endings. They *failed* to tie the endings into the rest of the games *narrative*. Mass Effect was never about Synthetics vs. Organics; that was a subtheme.

I am requoting this post because it is a good post and I like it.

I don't see how Mass Effect was never about Synthetics vs Organics.  Or even more, how the entire trilogy was not about control, synthesis and destroying the Reapers.  That's EXACTLY what it was about.

It's pointless to have this discussion in this thread, but tbh the quoted post is a bizarre thing to support.

Lets see...

For Control, we have the Illusive Man and Cerberus going on about it in the third game, but all we did was fight against that idea. It wasn't always about control, and its pressence is minor at best. Pretty sh*tty support for one of the apparent three pillars of the game. 

For Synthesis, Saren kind of said something similar to it that one time before he dies, but then it's forgotten about for the rest of the game. 

For destoy, I guess that was pretty much just the third game, but then the third game is all about destorying them. Stopping them was more correct, but stopping them never involved cooperation, or anything like control or synthesis. 

Organics versus Synthetics was part of the Geth and Quarian relationship, never the main conflict, never said to be a galaxy defining problem, unsolvable, or the cause of organic extinction. 

[jstme]

Seival wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Seival wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

... DNA is a rule? A RULE? Did you even pass biochemistry 101? Did you even *attend* biochemistry 101?

Of cource it is. You don't have to be a scientist to know that.

Such scientific terms describe the mechanics of some particular processes, not "createting a picture of microscopical fraction".

This post hurt my biology

I assume you see DNA as just "an acid which stores genetic information"? Just like you see Reapers as Spaceship Armada hostile to Galactic Civilization... And don't even realize that they both are "rules". The first describes how "genetic information storage" works, and the second - how Catalyst's solution works...

...You don't see the meaning of the things, so how can you probably like or dislike story you don't actually understand?

Seival, meet ...pampampam  RNA!
There are things that (gasp) store their genetical info in RNA form. Here. On Earth. 
They will not be synthesized, lucky buggers. 

[sAxMoNkI]

Seival wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Seival wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

... DNA is a rule? A RULE? Did you even pass biochemistry 101? Did you even *attend* biochemistry 101?

Of cource it is. You don't have to be a scientist to know that.

Such scientific terms describe the mechanics of some particular processes, not "createting a picture of microscopical fraction".

This post hurt my biology

I assume you see DNA as just "an acid which stores genetic information"? Just like you see Reapers as Spaceship Armada hostile to Galactic Civilization... And don't even realize that they both are "rules". The first describes how "genetic information storage" works, and the second - how Catalyst's solution works...

...You don't see the meaning of the things, so how can you probably like or dislike story you don't actually understand?

*Speechless at the lunacy*

You realise that *what* something is, *how* it functions and *why* it performs its functions are completely separate concepts right?

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Seival wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

... DNA is a rule? A RULE? Did you even pass biochemistry 101? Did you even *attend* biochemistry 101?

Of cource it is. You don't have to be a scientist to know that.

Such scientific terms describe the mechanics of some particular processes, not "createting a picture of microscopical fraction".

This post hurt my biology

I assume you see DNA as just "an acid which stores genetic information"?

You almost definitely assume wrong. But then, you almost always do. Best not to assume anything in the future.

Just like you see Reapers as Spaceship Armada hostile to Galactic Civilization...

Imagine that, believing the giant army of murderous robots who spend the entire trilogy attempting to kill us all, and who never express any other motivation or goal, are actually just a giant army of murderous robots who want to kill us all. 

Yeah, you could read a little more into it and maybe figure out that there might be something more, even if you don't know what it is, but until the last ten minutes, that's pretty much what they consistently are: a giant army of murderous robots. 

And don't even realize that they both are "rules". The first describes how "genetic information storage" works, and the second - how Catalyst's solution works...

None of that makes sense. 

...You don't see the meaning of the things, so how can you probably like or dislike story you don't actually understand?

As always, after doing an incredibly sh*tty job of trying to weedle your way out of using logic and reason, you blaim someone else for the hole you've dug yourself into.

Turn it round on you, d-bag, why do you feel it necessary to comment on a story like this if you quite clearly don't understand it?

[GreyLycanTrope]

Seival wrote...
I assume you see DNA as just "an acid which stores genetic information"? Just like you see Reapers as Spaceship Armada hostile to Galactic Civilization... And don't even realize that they both are "rules". The first describes how "genetic information storage" works, and the second - how Catalyst's solution works...

...You don't see the meaning of the things, so how can you probably like or dislike story you don't actually understand?

You're using a complex molecule you clearly don't fully understand as a poor analogy to justify a poorly written work of fiction. I understand just fine.

[M Hedonist]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Seival wrote...
I assume you see DNA as just "an acid which stores genetic information"? Just like you see Reapers as Spaceship Armada hostile to Galactic Civilization... And don't even realize that they both are "rules". The first describes how "genetic information storage" works, and the second - how Catalyst's solution works...

...You don't see the meaning of the things, so how can you probably like or dislike story you don't actually understand?

You're using a complex molecule you clearly don't fully understand as a poor analogy to justify a poorly written work of fiction. I understand just fine.

This needs to be reposted.

[Redbelle]

Seival wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

Seival wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Seival wrote...

Star Wars title is just silly adventure without any good story. Just action, action, more action, and overhyped popularity. Completely empty and useless universe.

You have no soul.

What is "the soul"?
How can you prove that it exists?

"Does that unit have a soul" is meaningless question on religious topic, which can easily provoke a 300 years long war. And we all know that history just loves to repeat itself.

Let's kick this back to more fundamentals. Do you have faith in something you cannot see and have not touched?

DNA for example. Have you actually ever seen some? You've seen representational pictures and maybe an electron microscope slide but have you ever gone searching for yourself and found some?

The people who put those pictures into text books did so for the purpose of educating others, but ultimately we take it on faith that they are correct.

Newton thought his laws of motion could explain how planets revolve around the sun. And it did. with a few wrinkles that people overlooked on faith. Then  Einstein popped up and proved Newton had made errors in his assumptions and presented a new theory that did explain how the solar system works. And now we take that on faith that he's right.

Who is to say that just because we haven't discovered something, doesn't mean it's there. The universe is full of things we haven't discovered. I simply have faith that by staying true to our need to be curious we will discover certain things that will lead on to more discoveries, and more.

It's funny though. Science seems to be catching up to religion. The Higgs Bosun was recently discovered and as well as asking what it can do, scientists are now arguing over why it can do what it does. So many theories that can not currently be proven yet camps are springing up defending these outlooks. They may seem to be operating off of logic but science is the pursuit of truth and each camp has faith that their truth is the right one.
 
Fortunately I have faith that we will not see a repeat of history where these divides will lead to scientists throwing lit bunsen's into lab's of the opposition with a petri of magnesium taped to the side.

If your still wondering if souls exist though? Well it's up to the individual. We can accept or reject truth and lies and the topic of having a soul is no different.

Seriously though. Why doesn't Seiv want a soul? He'd be like Voldermort living off Unicorn blood living a half life.

Does the soul exist? Here's one view on the matter

http://www.psycholog...idence-says-yes

DNA is not an entity. It's not a "spiral inside your body". It's a "rule", which describes some physiological processes. And the rule exists. As a rule of course.

Since the "soul" still doesn't describe any phisiological processes, and noone can even give the correct answer what it actually is, we can consider "soul" only as a part of corrupted ancient imagination.

DNA is not a rule. It conforms to rules............. but DeoxyriboNucleic Acid is very much an entity. By which I mean it is real. I believe it is real because I was taught it is real in school. I have never seen it with my own eye's. I have never touched it with my own hands. Yet those who claim to be knowledgable in such matters claim that DNA gives me my current form.

It's changing and renewing itself. Becoming damaged, healing and damaged in a cycle of base pairing and supercoiling. these two descriptions are but a drop in the ocean to what is going on inside you, me and all of us. Yet despite the power DNA holds over me, it is not the sum of my whole. I am more that the sum of my helix.

So to say that the soul is not a part of that sum, despite it's constant reference through history, seems presumptuous.

Modifié par Redbelle, 06 novembre 2012 - 10:52 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Ironically enough many of them have planets named after them in the Mass Effect universe (Franklin included). You'd think that Seival being the all knowing prophet he/she is would have at least browsed their works.

FYI I recommend Watson and Crick's research Seival. Particularly good reads.

Watson and Crick are responsible for our understanding of DNA structure, shame about how they obtained their data though.

[Redbelle]

Seival wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Seival wrote...

Of course Synthesis will not stop all conflicts. It will only stop the most deadly and pointless ones. The ones based on "Alien" word. "Alien" not it terms of different points of view, but in terms of complete difference and hostility on physiological and subconscious level.

Even if your rambling nonsense was true, the galaxy would eventually come into contact with other, "alien", galaxies.

And that would be just another brilliant story

I'm guessing it ends in synthesis.

[Redbelle]

Davik Kang wrote...

Suspire wrote...
If for some reason you wanna pretend all the BW interviews, all the info we have and all the info that exists on game development is all a big lie and they did plan it from the start, that would make it worse as the games have more inconsistancies than my grandma's skin. So fail anyway.

What other 99%? Cause from what I know, ME1>ME2>ME3 in order of quality and popularity (debatable for ME2, but it was then that the FPS crowd started liking BW, and even though I like the game, it's not for it's story). 
Like it's any secret that BW games have been getting worse with each release lol.

Edit: and about your last question, we have a number of things to blame for the abysmal drop in writing quality of the endings (even if the rest wasn't flawless writing, cause it really wasn't), pure bad decision making combined with rushed deadline, old team leaving the staff, over ambition and swollen egos, being more and more out of touch with your fans, wanting to do something "different" (er, just not different from Deus Ex and the Matrix) just for the sake of being edgy and cool etc. 

The guy who wrote ME1 wasn't even in ME3 at all, lol.

So.... in other words, yes, you do think that writers write their stories in the ordert that the audience perceives them.  Tops off the whole confused aspect of your entire post.

Redbelle wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...
Davik Kang, he's dead, always.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Whoops I really should've got that.

However, it's not true!!!  I live!!!

Yay!




Whose Davik Kang?

A deeply wise man, who lived a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.

Bumped into a guy called Revan once, who wanted to join the crew.  He didn't seem like all that really.

Sounds like someone we should all know and buy a beer for.

[Redbelle]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

Redbelle wrote...
Whose Davik Kang?

A deeply wise man, who lived a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.

Bumped into a guy called Revan once, who wanted to join the crew.  He didn't seem like all that really.

Wasn't going by Revan when he met Davik, he was going by Manly McBeefington in my case.

I would also like to buy a beer for Manly McBeefington. Do they ever reunite some time?