889 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerevar-as]

Seival wrote...

You clearly can't just look around and see that only Humans are superior on the Earth. Everything that brought us to this stage was an advantage...

...No other beings on this planet were so successful. Which proves that Evolution's destination is the end of diversity.

I´m not certain why I´m bothering, but I´ll give a try. End of diversity would result in an homogenization, which would mean everything would have the same weaknesses. In the Synthesis galaxy, a virus that evolved to attack the hybrids would be a threat to every living being galaxy-wide.

Not certain, but I thought there was no final goal to evolution, it was an adaptative process to the enviroment, not a ladder to the "supreme" being.

[drayfish]

Seival,

You've been a real puzzle to me for a while now; at times you say very foolish and frankly extremely alarming things – but I think I've finally figured you out. 

You're not a troll.  You're not an idiot.

You have a broken heart. 

You've spoken in the past about how much the original ending of Mass Effect 3 upset you (as it did many fans; myself very much included). It was a shock, and a betrayal of all that the character you were playing stood for - and then your Shepard died for nothing. 

And I think something in you felt that pain so acutely that when you realised the ending we were presented with in the EC was never going to change, you devoted yourself wholly to a nonsensical task of trying to convince yourself – against all logic, against all morality and reason – that, no, you did enjoy it. 

Even if it made you feel dead inside – it made you think.

I mean, even the way that you talk about your experience, months later: it often sounds like someone brainwashed, or still in shock.  Your comments all seem to be variations on a theme: I was foolish and acted like a child, until others explained how wrong I was, how like a baby I had behaved...

It's like a narrative Stockholm syndrome. 'I was being stupid. Bioware were just trying to help me all along...' But believe me: you didn't deserve to be punished. They weren't doing it for your own good.

And just to be clear (for anyone else reading this): I am not saying that anyone who likes the ending is reading it nonsensically. I am just saying that the reasons that you posit, Seival (synthesis camps; Joker's relay jump test flight; thrashing about trying to hate on other franchises like Star Wars; desperately attempting to draw equivalencies between ME and other works of science fiction that you like; writing crazy love-notes to racist, eugenic ideologies) are often so fantastical and unsubstantial that it seems like you are really reaching, grasping to try and delude yourself – against every fundamental belief in your heart – that you like something that hurt you profoundly.

No fiction should ever require you to embrace the mindset of genetic hate crimes in order for your to 'enjoy' it; and in time I truly hope that you will shake out of whatever weird malaise this is that has you in its grasp so that you can rethink the horror of what you have been saying over these past few pages.

You embarrass yourself; you make others who support the Synthesis ending for less disturbing reasons look bad; and I will say this again: Harry Harrison would be ashamed of you for everything that you are saying right now. If you have to drag his, and other greater sci-fi stories, down to becoming messages of hatred and fearful intolerance just to make your feelings toward Mass Effect less confusing, then you are in a profoundly sad state of mind indeed.

Modifié par drayfish, 07 novembre 2012 - 10:36 .

[Applepie_Svk]

Actaully Seival iz DOLAN ...

[ld1449]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

I redact my previous assessment and put forth a new one.

ITT: Seival going full retard.

But...everyone knows you're not supposed to go full retard!

[Seival]

Maimh wrote...

Seival wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Seival wrote...

I don't have to be a writer to talk about ME Story, and I don't have to be a scientist to talk about Evolution...

You don't have to be a scientist, you only have to know about Evolution - which clearly, you don't, at all.

...I can see and analize what I see and hear around. Something benefitial can't be called "defect". A feature - yes, an anomaly - yes, but not a defect.

That is literally what they are called! DEFECT! BECAUSE THEY WERE MUSCLE GROWTH ERRORS THAT TURNED OUT TO BE BENEFICIAL IN THE LONG RUN!
Do you even understand what we are talking about? If your muscles don't grow properly, that most likely means you're terribly, terribly sick!

You clearly can't just look around and see that only Humans are superior on the Earth. Everything that brought us to this stage was an advantage...

...No other beings on this planet were so successful. Which proves that Evolution's destination is the end of diversity.

.....Actually the reason why humanity is successful is our ability to adapt. Diversity is the very key to our survival. Without diversity a race will stagnate and die out.

Diversity is the very key to survival only on early stages of evolution, like I already said.

Modern humanity has no natural competitors anymore. We are competitors to ourselves, so early stage rules are not working for us anymore. And please, don't tell me that different skin color is a "diversity". We are all just humans. And we are superior on this planet.

[EnvyTB075]

ld1449 wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

I redact my previous assessment and put forth a new one.

ITT: Seival going full retard.

But...everyone knows you're not supposed to go full retard!

Seival probably saw it as another fact that threatens his/her deluded worldview and carries on hoping we don't notice he/she is full of it, much to our entertainment.

[Applepie_Svk]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

I redact my previous assessment and put forth a new one.

ITT: Seival going full retard.

But...everyone knows you're not supposed to go full retard!

Seival probably saw it as another fact that threatens his/her deluded worldview and carries on hoping we don't notice he/she is full of it, much to our entertainment.

[Dr_Extrem]

Seival wrote...

Maimh wrote...

Seival wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Seival wrote...

I don't have to be a writer to talk about ME Story, and I don't have to be a scientist to talk about Evolution...

You don't have to be a scientist, you only have to know about Evolution - which clearly, you don't, at all.

...I can see and analize what I see and hear around. Something benefitial can't be called "defect". A feature - yes, an anomaly - yes, but not a defect.

That is literally what they are called! DEFECT! BECAUSE THEY WERE MUSCLE GROWTH ERRORS THAT TURNED OUT TO BE BENEFICIAL IN THE LONG RUN!
Do you even understand what we are talking about? If your muscles don't grow properly, that most likely means you're terribly, terribly sick!

You clearly can't just look around and see that only Humans are superior on the Earth. Everything that brought us to this stage was an advantage...

...No other beings on this planet were so successful. Which proves that Evolution's destination is the end of diversity.

.....Actually the reason why humanity is successful is our ability to adapt. Diversity is the very key to our survival. Without diversity a race will stagnate and die out.

Diversity is the very key to survival only on early stages of evolution, like I already said.

Modern humanity has no natural competitors anymore. We are competitors to ourselves, so early stage rules are not working for us anymore. And please, don't tell me that different skin color is a "diversity". We are all just humans. And we are superior on this planet.

 .. two weeks ago, i had the flu .. the real one. i had cramps in my legs who were so severe, that i wanted to end my misery. i had a 40.6°C feaver and shivering attacks who nearly crushed my teath.

without the ability to adapt, i would have died. evolution does not have an apex. it is an neverending cycle of enhancement and extinction. biological perfection does not exist. 

stagnation is regression. evolution is the perfect example for this saying.

[Seival]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Seival wrote...

You clearly can't just look around and see that only Humans are superior on the Earth. Everything that brought us to this stage was an advantage...

...No other beings on this planet were so successful. Which proves that Evolution's destination is the end of diversity.

I´m not certain why I´m bothering, but I´ll give a try. End of diversity would result in an homogenization, which would mean everything would have the same weaknesses. In the Synthesis galaxy, a virus that evolved to attack the hybrids would be a threat to every living being galaxy-wide.

Not certain, but I thought there was no final goal to evolution, it was an adaptative process to the enviroment, not a ladder to the "supreme" being.

There are cross-race viruses as well. They are also the threat to every living being, and diversity will not help to cure the desease.

In case of Synthesis, everyone will be able to eat the same food, drink the same water, and breath the same air. Which will remove all physical borders between races, and will even help to create and spread a cure from new desease much faster.

Modifié par Seival, 07 novembre 2012 - 10:53 .

[Archonsg]

Seival wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Seival wrote...

I don't have to be a writer to talk about ME Story, and I don't have to be a scientist to talk about Evolution...

You don't have to be a scientist, you only have to know about Evolution - which clearly, you don't, at all.

...I can see and analize what I see and hear around. Something benefitial can't be called "defect". A feature - yes, an anomaly - yes, but not a defect.

That is literally what they are called! DEFECT! BECAUSE THEY WERE MUSCLE GROWTH ERRORS THAT TURNED OUT TO BE BENEFICIAL IN THE LONG RUN!
Do you even understand what we are talking about? If your muscles don't grow properly, that most likely means you're terribly, terribly sick!

You clearly can't just look around and see that only Humans are superior on the Earth. Everything that brought us to this stage was an advantage...

...No other beings on this planet were so successful. Which proves that Evolution's destination is the end of diversity.

Perspective is such a wonderful thing.
Allow me to introduce you to E. Coli A rather elegant and "simple" in genetic terms, strain if Bacteria. It lives in us, all of us, and we are all host to it. It is also parasitic. In other words, it feeds off us. We can't get rid of it, in fact if we get rid of enough of them in our body, we'd very likely die, So perspectively speaking, who is tge more "successful", the one doing the feeding or the host unable to function without the parasite?

[Dr_Extrem]

Seival wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Seival wrote...

You clearly can't just look around and see that only Humans are superior on the Earth. Everything that brought us to this stage was an advantage...

...No other beings on this planet were so successful. Which proves that Evolution's destination is the end of diversity.

I´m not certain why I´m bothering, but I´ll give a try. End of diversity would result in an homogenization, which would mean everything would have the same weaknesses. In the Synthesis galaxy, a virus that evolved to attack the hybrids would be a threat to every living being galaxy-wide.

Not certain, but I thought there was no final goal to evolution, it was an adaptative process to the enviroment, not a ladder to the "supreme" being.

There are cross-race viruses as well. They are also the threat to every living being, and diversity will not help to cure the desease.

In case of Synthesis, everyone will be able to eat the same food, drink the same water, and breath the same air. Which will remove all physical borders between races, and will even help to create and spread a cure from new desease much faster.

and it will make a disease spread even faster - even computers could spread such a virus (if it is a hybrid)

if all beings are uniformed and have the same narrowed viewpoint, it is highly unlikely, that they would be able to defeat a disease.

the virus on the other hand, will adapt - fast and efficient.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 07 novembre 2012 - 10:59 .

[The Night Mammoth]

WOOOOOOOOP

WOOOOOOOOP

HEADCANON ALERT

Seival wrote...

In case of Synthesis, everyone will be able to eat the same food, drink the same water, and breath the same PLEASE DISREGARD AS FACTUAL INFORMATIONair. Which will remove all physical borders between races, and will even help to create and spread a cure from new desease much faster.

WOOOOOOOOOP

WOOOOOOOOOP

HEADCANON ALERT

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 07 novembre 2012 - 11:01 .

[Suspire]

Guys don't you know dolphins de-evolved back to fishes?!?!?!

[Seival]

Archonsg wrote...

Seival wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Seival wrote...

I don't have to be a writer to talk about ME Story, and I don't have to be a scientist to talk about Evolution...

You don't have to be a scientist, you only have to know about Evolution - which clearly, you don't, at all.

...I can see and analize what I see and hear around. Something benefitial can't be called "defect". A feature - yes, an anomaly - yes, but not a defect.

That is literally what they are called! DEFECT! BECAUSE THEY WERE MUSCLE GROWTH ERRORS THAT TURNED OUT TO BE BENEFICIAL IN THE LONG RUN!
Do you even understand what we are talking about? If your muscles don't grow properly, that most likely means you're terribly, terribly sick!

You clearly can't just look around and see that only Humans are superior on the Earth. Everything that brought us to this stage was an advantage...

...No other beings on this planet were so successful. Which proves that Evolution's destination is the end of diversity.

Perspective is such a wonderful thing.
Allow me to introduce you to E. Coli A rather elegant and "simple" in genetic terms, strain if Bacteria. It lives in us, all of us, and we are all host to it. It is also parasitic. In other words, it feeds off us. We can't get rid of it, in fact if we get rid of enough of them in our body, we'd very likely die, So perspectively speaking, who is tge more "successful", the one doing the feeding or the host unable to function without the parasite?

A human plus all beneficial bacteria inside him is one persistent entity...

...Human can't live without skin, so you will call skin more superior than human it belongs to? That's silly.

[ld1449]

You know, if nothing else, I know that someone from Bioware will or has already stumbled on some of these threads with posts like Seivals.

Result;

Palm-meet-face. "Dear god...this is the intellectual worth of my game?"

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

A human plus all beneficial bacteria inside him is one persistent entity...

...Human can't live without skin, so you will call skin more superior than human it belongs to? That's silly.

Oh. My. God. 

Keep em' comin' Seival, this one was a real rib tickler. 


No, you wouldn't. Skin is physically part of the human body, it is not a separate organism. Idiot. 

[Maimh]

Seival wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Seival wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Seival wrote...

I don't have to be a writer to talk about ME Story, and I don't have to be a scientist to talk about Evolution...

You don't have to be a scientist, you only have to know about Evolution - which clearly, you don't, at all.

...I can see and analize what I see and hear around. Something benefitial can't be called "defect". A feature - yes, an anomaly - yes, but not a defect.

That is literally what they are called! DEFECT! BECAUSE THEY WERE MUSCLE GROWTH ERRORS THAT TURNED OUT TO BE BENEFICIAL IN THE LONG RUN!
Do you even understand what we are talking about? If your muscles don't grow properly, that most likely means you're terribly, terribly sick!

You clearly can't just look around and see that only Humans are superior on the Earth. Everything that brought us to this stage was an advantage...

...No other beings on this planet were so successful. Which proves that Evolution's destination is the end of diversity.

Perspective is such a wonderful thing.
Allow me to introduce you to E. Coli A rather elegant and "simple" in genetic terms, strain if Bacteria. It lives in us, all of us, and we are all host to it. It is also parasitic. In other words, it feeds off us. We can't get rid of it, in fact if we get rid of enough of them in our body, we'd very likely die, So perspectively speaking, who is tge more "successful", the one doing the feeding or the host unable to function without the parasite?

A human plus all beneficial bacteria inside him is one persistent entity...

...Human can't live without skin, so you will call skin more superior than human it belongs to? That's silly.

Er, no, your skin shares your own DNA, the bacteries in your innard does not. That is not a single entity, that is a symibiotic relationship.

[Nerevar-as]

Seival wrote...

Diversity is the very key to survival only on early stages of evolution, like I already said.

Modern humanity has no natural competitors anymore. We are competitors to ourselves, so early stage rules are not working for us anymore. And please, don't tell me that different skin color is a "diversity". We are all just humans. And we are superior on this planet.

Actually we are rather pathetic. If our tech stopped working, we´d die by the millions. An electromagnetic pulse in a big city and more or less everybody would go from top of the chain to bottom.

[M Hedonist]

I think the fundamental problem with Seival's view on humanity and evolution is that, for some reason, he perceives the current state of things as the final state of things (unless there is some kind of outside-interference like Synthesis).
Humans are at the 'top of the food chain' right now - this means they will forever be from now on!
Humans have done some pretty bad things based on racial hate and xenophobia - this means they will forever continue to do so!
Seival's perspective is simply flawed.

[paul165]

Seival wrote...

I don't have to be a writer to talk about ME Story, and I don't have to be a scientist to talk about Evolution...

...I can see and analize what I see and hear around. Something benefitial can't be called "defect". A feature - yes, an anomaly - yes, but not a defect.

Technically no but you need to have at least some level of education in the topic in order to have a rational discussion. The stuff you write about DNA being a "rule" and this whole superior being kick you've got going on proves you do not have a sufficient level of education in the topic to be able to produce a rational response. Rather like asking me to critique football teams you simply do not know or do not care enough to be able to have the discussion.

Not in itself much of a problem - providing you don't keep arguing with people who are.

Then again previous posts also suggest you are also disturbingly uninformed about politics (everyone is a military dictatorship really? I don't know where you live but I would wager strongly it's a representative democracy like 90% of the other people who post on this board) And no the asari are closer to anarchy than a dictatorship - they still have city states for crying out loud and ME3 suggests they aren't even a representative democracy they are a direct democracy (although I concede I'm not entirely certain on that).

And history because otherwise you would realise how scary/creepy/horrific/insert your adjective here arguments are to anyone with any grounding in the events of the 20th century because those kind of arguments were exactly the ones used to justify eugenics programmes (and if you go further back slavery but that's older).


@Nevevar correct there is no final goal to evolution. There in face
no goal to evolution any more than there is a goal to gravity it's a
process not an objective.

Modifié par paul165, 08 novembre 2012 - 12:42 .

[Applepie_Svk]

Paulomedi wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

I think the fundamental problem with Seival's view on humanity and evolution is that, for some reason, he perceives the current state of things as the final state of things (unless there is some kind of outside-interference like Synthesis).
Humans are at the 'top of the food chain' right now - this means they will forever be from now on!
Humans have done some pretty bad things based on racial hate and xenophobia - this means they will forever continue to do so!
Seival's perspective is simply flawed.

Flawed and dangerous. It's a prime example of half-knowledge dangers. You just have a superficial knowledge about a subject, therefore you complete the gaps with your own beliefs and conceptions. 

This way of thinking have brought much suffering to the mankind.

Same one which Catalyst brings upon the galaxy with his supposed solution...

[Archonsg]

The difference between being simply ignorant and willfully ignorant is pretty much in evidence here.

I intentionally made sure that I hyper-link a very informative wiki about E. Coli and their strains, as well as worded very carefully, lest I be accused of using misleading words, that the bacteria I am referring to are not part of the human genome, as the word "parasite" indicates.

Thus, even if Seival wasn't sure what E. Coli are, simply reading the information I have provided would have been sufficient to inform anyone that bacteria in one's system are organisms onto themselves.

It doesn't help that he chooses to argue with blinders on and fingers in his ears going "laa ... laa ... laa.. I am not listening! You can't make me!" either.

For that is the image he projects.

Then again, that's the *perfect* image for anyone so fanatically supportive of Synthesis in my opinion.

[Archonsg]

@drayfish

Just read your post of the possibility (good catch) that Seival is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. I should have seen it too, but it's been years since I have worked in the social services field. But you are right, the symptoms are there.
Though I am not sure if it isn't something else. A persecution complex perhaps coupled with a little nihilism.

I don't know.
I have had my share of trolls since the 2500 baud days but this ...