dreman9999 wrote...
Argolas wrote...
The ending was not made for genius authors. It was made for players. You know, the ones who hate it.
Op's point is foryou to think about the endings and stop blindly hating it.
A) that's your opinion. We're all entitled to one, so its all good.A Bethesda Fan wrote...
Mcfly616 wrote...
did I say that? No, I didn't. I said "some people". Though, it would seem that those that dont like the ending, wouldn't really be satisfied by the majority of classic sci fi novels written in the last 50 years.Isichar wrote...
Mcfly616 wrote...
the ending of Foundations Edge (the options you just listed) is the direct inspiration for the ME3 ending.Ironhandjustice wrote...
Obviously he did not remember that is "very similar" to Asimov's foundation cuatrilogy... right?
-Support the first foundation and kill second foundation and the IA's
-Support the second foundationd and control first foundation and destroy Ia's
-Support the IA's and make a synthesis with first and second foundations.
Very... "similar".
And OP: I agree. ME3 was given a classic ending of the sci fi genre. Inspired by such writers as you listed. Seems people that say they know sci fi, really just mean Star Wars and Star Trek. I'll take the classic sci fi ending over Ewoks any day of the week.
So in other words:
Anyone who dislikes the ending does not know classic Sci-fi and anyone who likes it does?
For so many people that are calling the OP "ignorant", I find it funny that they're getting upset. Hell, if anything Pro-Enders have some catching up to do in the ignorance department. That's a fact. Every thread I've seen that praises the end, or simply tries to discuss it, turns into a bashfest once the Anti-Enders see it. Troll after troll, jumping in simply to post: "NO. The Ending SUCKS!" or "its a pile of crap" or "its nonsensical and doesn't go with the themes of Mass Effect!".....Riiiight.
The term "ignorant" is a moot and hypocritical point on these forums.....well, if you're asking me atleast. You yourself are doing a fine job of sounding entitled
A) Nothing in Mass effect 3 makes much sense
B)You didn't say some people, to quote you said "seems people that say they know sci fi, really just mean star trek and star wars".
That is aimed at everyone who doesn't agree with your opinions.
C) The whole argument this deluded OP are trying to get across is something along the line "well if you hate MLP then you probably don't like Liara".
not that it matters or that you'll believe me (who cares lol), but I indeed meant "some" people. I always post from my phone. Auto-correct is a b*tch. Nonetheless, I disagree with your interpretation of what I actually posted. You say its directed at everybody. Reading it overagain, I don't really think adding "some" was really necessary. It's quite vague and ambiguous. So take it for what you will.Modifié par Mcfly616, 04 novembre 2012 - 05:06 .
Seival wrote...
MegaSovereign wrote...
Seival you're not gonna change anyone's mind.
Trying to change hater's mind about ME3 ending is like trying to convince Kerk Pyrrus that nuclear bomb is not a good solution to deal with the "enemy". But even people like Kerk can be reasonable. If I'll manage to convince at least few people, it would be worth trying.
1. Did you see the top falling over?ghost9191 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
It 's made to be open ended. It's not made to be a liniear story like a book. It leaves what something mean up to the player.dreamgazer wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
The slap dash execution was with the orginal endings.dreamgazer wrote...
A lot of writers would appreciate the ideology, the mystical quality of it, and the discussion that the ending sparked.
They wouldn't appreciate the slapdash execution.
No, the inherent problems with practicality and clarity of perspective are still there.
Think the spinning top in the end of inception.
1) the top was falling over
2) judging from the rest of the story , liniear was not a issue for bioware
3) ec actually doesn't leave much to the imagination ,
Blindly loving? Do you even see my sig?Isichar wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Argolas wrote...
The ending was not made for genius authors. It was made for players. You know, the ones who hate it.
Op's point is foryou to think about the endings and stop blindly hating it.
Blindly loving it is no better, Dre.
Seival wrote...
ghost9191 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
It 's made to be open ended. It's not made to be a liniear story like a book. It leaves what something mean up to the player.dreamgazer wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
The slap dash execution was with the orginal endings.dreamgazer wrote...
A lot of writers would appreciate the ideology, the mystical quality of it, and the discussion that the ending sparked.
They wouldn't appreciate the slapdash execution.
No, the inherent problems with practicality and clarity of perspective are still there.
Think the spinning top in the end of inception.
1) the top was falling over
2) judging from the rest of the story , liniear was not a issue for bioware
3) ec actually doesn't leave much to the imagination ,
In fact EC and Leviathan leave a lot to the imagination. Maybe even more than in case of original ending, because we have the full vision of each ending and all info required to base our thoughts upon. In EC our imagination was just... directed correctly. We've got the vectors we needed, and have no need to wander in the dark anymore.
( and i meant less so then the original) but suppose that is the benefit of killing off your shep to create a AI , you no longer have a say in how it plays out . or what the reapers do , well besides alignment
What says you don't?ghost9191 wrote...
Seival wrote...
ghost9191 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
It 's made to be open ended. It's not made to be a liniear story like a book. It leaves what something mean up to the player.dreamgazer wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
The slap dash execution was with the orginal endings.dreamgazer wrote...
A lot of writers would appreciate the ideology, the mystical quality of it, and the discussion that the ending sparked.
They wouldn't appreciate the slapdash execution.
No, the inherent problems with practicality and clarity of perspective are still there.
Think the spinning top in the end of inception.
1) the top was falling over
2) judging from the rest of the story , liniear was not a issue for bioware
3) ec actually doesn't leave much to the imagination ,
In fact EC and Leviathan leave a lot to the imagination. Maybe even more than in case of original ending, because we have the full vision of each ending and all info required to base our thoughts upon. In EC our imagination was just... directed correctly. We've got the vectors we needed, and have no need to wander in the dark anymore.
well at least control doesn't
Guest_A Bethesda Fan_*
dreman9999 wrote...
1. That's bs.A Bethesda Fan wrote...
A) Nothing in Mass effect 3 makes much sense
B)You didn't say some people, to quote you said "seems people that say they know sci fi, really just mean star trek and star wars".
That is aimed at everyone who doesn't agree with your opinions.
C) The whole argument this deluded OP is trying to get across is something along the line "well if you hate MLP then you probably don't like Liara".
2.The very point of the topic is to change peoplewho don't like th eending to look at it in a new perspectives.
3. Read point 2.
Also,Bethesda Fan....What did you do in the fallout 3 "the pitt dlc."
I don't see that, if that is the point then this thread failed miserably
Guest_Arcian_*
What the hell is there to think about?dreman9999 wrote...
Argolas wrote...
The ending was not made for genius authors. It was made for players. You know, the ones who hate it.
Op's point is foryou to think about the endings and stop blindly hating it.
Arcian wrote...
What the hell is there to think about?dreman9999 wrote...
Argolas wrote...
The ending was not made for genius authors. It was made for players. You know, the ones who hate it.
Op's point is foryou to think about the endings and stop blindly hating it.
Arcian wrote...
What the hell is there to think about?dreman9999 wrote...
Argolas wrote...
The ending was not made for genius authors. It was made for players. You know, the ones who hate it.
Op's point is foryou to think about the endings and stop blindly hating it.
Guest_A Bethesda Fan_*
Mcfly616 wrote...
A) that's your opinion. We're all entitled to one, so its all good.
C) I have no affiliation with the OP. I was just agreeing with a certain subject he brought up about classic sci fi novels and the ME3 ending. I was certainly not agreeing with his assertations towards those that dislike the ending. I guess I shouldve been more specific. Didn't realize people would get their feelings hurt
1. The cycle continues.A Bethesda Fan wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
1. That's bs.A Bethesda Fan wrote...
A) Nothing in Mass effect 3 makes much sense
B)You didn't say some people, to quote you said "seems people that say they know sci fi, really just mean star trek and star wars".
That is aimed at everyone who doesn't agree with your opinions.
C) The whole argument this deluded OP is trying to get across is something along the line "well if you hate MLP then you probably don't like Liara".
2.The very point of the topic is to change peoplewho don't like th eending to look at it in a new perspectives.
3. Read point 2.
Also,Bethesda Fan....What did you do in the fallout 3 "the pitt dlc."
A) That's BS
C) Read point 1
I picked refusal.
I think you mix up concept of choices present in most (if not all) role playing games with what main themes are.dreman9999 wrote...
I saw that them from 2007 when I first played ME1.jstme wrote...
Lol. Dreman9999 ,i asssure you that if i asked you a year ago what are important messages of ME, message of morality of ends vs means would not be in first 10 things you would have mentioned.dreman9999 wrote...
Lizardviking wrote...
I have a feeling that most good writers would say that you should not tape an ending that would fit into 2001: A space odyssey onto a series that had for the most part had been a heroic sci-fi akin to Star wars or Star Trek. Or vice versa for that matter.
Then you miss the enitre message of the morality of ends vs means inthe story of ME. The catalyst is part of that theme showing you the worse of that concept. It's not taped on.
Even Harry Harrison could not have spotted that message as the one that will be ME3 grand finale theme.
This is a game that ask you how you do things , a game of choice, to get to your end. It has no road the equal failure out side of bad choices..And bad choice are nether renage or paragon.
You don't thing a game that ask you to save the council and let allance personal die to save them or hold them back to ensure victory over sovergin and future reaper threats does not question ends vs means?
.
Seival wrote...
A Bethesda Fan wrote...
A lion lying down with a lamb is logical.
Oh dear, it's a good thing time kills us.
I have a theory...
...Ask some person, who disliked ME3 ending, to read some good old sci-fi book and describe what did he understand afterwards, and that person will call the book "nonsence" or "nice adventure".
dreman9999 wrote...
Argolas wrote...
The ending was not made for genius authors. It was made for players. You know, the ones who hate it.
Op's point is foryou to think about the endings and stop blindly hating it.
The morality of ends vs means.Arcian wrote...
What the hell is there to think about?dreman9999 wrote...
Argolas wrote...
The ending was not made for genius authors. It was made for players. You know, the ones who hate it.
Op's point is foryou to think about the endings and stop blindly hating it.
funny. I'm still waiting for you provide a single shred of evidence of this behavior you speak of coming from me. You're the one doing the labeling. Whenever 'you' type? Haha idk who.you are, and I certainly don't recall ever responding to you. Certainly not in the manner you speak of, amd definitely not in this thread. You've been on the offense for the last 4 pages bro lol im just chillin.Isichar wrote...
Mcfly616 wrote...
I have no desire to get into a heated discussion with you or anybody. In fact, I haven't seen a legit discussion on these forums in months. They're all diluted with hate and nonsense. But I understand your sentiment. I feel the same way.Fireblader70 wrote...
Mcfly616 wrote...
I would love to hear what "plotholes" you speak of....Fireblader70 wrote...
A good sci-fi writer would not be making such gaping plot holes...
Well toughI am not getting myself into a long, heated argument again... sorry!
I dont hate the ending or the writers. I disagree with the overall execution of the Catalyst and Crucible. But whenever I type all you see is "ENDING HATE RAWEWTGSTEW" when I think many of the core ideas involved in the ending are actually good themselves.
Do you ever think that the reason you never see a legit discussion is because you label everyone without understanding what they are saying and why?
dreman9999 wrote...
What says you don't?ghost9191 wrote...
Seival wrote...
ghost9191 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
It 's made to be open ended. It's not made to be a liniear story like a book. It leaves what something mean up to the player.dreamgazer wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
The slap dash execution was with the orginal endings.dreamgazer wrote...
A lot of writers would appreciate the ideology, the mystical quality of it, and the discussion that the ending sparked.
They wouldn't appreciate the slapdash execution.
No, the inherent problems with practicality and clarity of perspective are still there.
Think the spinning top in the end of inception.
1) the top was falling over
2) judging from the rest of the story , liniear was not a issue for bioware
3) ec actually doesn't leave much to the imagination ,
In fact EC and Leviathan leave a lot to the imagination. Maybe even more than in case of original ending, because we have the full vision of each ending and all info required to base our thoughts upon. In EC our imagination was just... directed correctly. We've got the vectors we needed, and have no need to wander in the dark anymore.
well at least control doesn't
I know you and many people hate the ending. Op is say lookat it in a new perspective and try to find meaning in them.Argolas wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Argolas wrote...
The ending was not made for genius authors. It was made for players. You know, the ones who hate it.
Op's point is foryou to think about the endings and stop blindly hating it.
I'm not a blind hater. I hated the pre-EC endings because they seemed extremely lazy to me, that's true. The combination of EC and headcanon fixed it for me, and now I consider it decent.
My point is not "I hate the ending". My point is "The ending is hated by many fans that could not enjoy it." And that's a fact.
Redbelle wrote...
Seival wrote...
MegaSovereign wrote...
Seival you're not gonna change anyone's mind.
Trying to change hater's mind about ME3 ending is like trying to convince Kerk Pyrrus that nuclear bomb is not a good solution to deal with the "enemy". But even people like Kerk can be reasonable. If I'll manage to convince at least few people, it would be worth trying.
Whose Kerk Pyrrus? And what do historical analysts say, regarding the dropping of FatMan over Nagasaki, about how it altered the duration of the war?
dreman9999 wrote...
The morality of ends vs means.Arcian wrote...
What the hell is there to think about?dreman9999 wrote...
Argolas wrote...
The ending was not made for genius authors. It was made for players. You know, the ones who hate it.
Op's point is foryou to think about the endings and stop blindly hating it.
The morality of advancement.
The issues of control vs free will.
The statement"The man I was"mean it used to be a man/human. That does not mean it is no longer Shepard. The ai never saysit's based off Shepard, just that it was human and is no longer.ghost9191 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
What says you don't?ghost9191 wrote...
Seival wrote...
ghost9191 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
It 's made to be open ended. It's not made to be a liniear story like a book. It leaves what something mean up to the player.dreamgazer wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
The slap dash execution was with the orginal endings.dreamgazer wrote...
A lot of writers would appreciate the ideology, the mystical quality of it, and the discussion that the ending sparked.
They wouldn't appreciate the slapdash execution.
No, the inherent problems with practicality and clarity of perspective are still there.
Think the spinning top in the end of inception.
1) the top was falling over
2) judging from the rest of the story , liniear was not a issue for bioware
3) ec actually doesn't leave much to the imagination ,
In fact EC and Leviathan leave a lot to the imagination. Maybe even more than in case of original ending, because we have the full vision of each ending and all info required to base our thoughts upon. In EC our imagination was just... directed correctly. We've got the vectors we needed, and have no need to wander in the dark anymore.
well at least control doesn't
because you killed your shep in order to create a AI to control them. that ai is based on memories and actions., but that just determines if it is a protector or dictator for the most part. unless you thought killing yourself makes you ascend. which it might but pretty sure it doesn't :innocent:
dreman9999 wrote...
1.Th efact that the choice feels droppedon you lap is irrelivent. Not every choice you have the time to plan out and prep for before hand.Grubas wrote...
It dosn't make sense. It feels forced. If you leave out as many things as have been dumped in ME3 the audience at last deserves an epic conclusion story and gameplaywise.
Its a bad idea to suddenly go on the art train, just because its cheaper and creates less work.
If so, bw should have kept up the style the whole game long.
2. Added, the issues in the ending were decused well before anyway. In many converstions with Garrus, Liara, and Hackett you question if the crucible could be a double edge sword and what you would do in that case.
This is a game of hyptheticals, how and when the questions are asked to you does not change that no go ageins the themes of the story. The grand question form ME1 is what you would do and sacrifice to stop an unstoppable force. The final question in the game does no contradict that question.
The last question does make sense, you just don't like the question.
Modifié par Grubas, 04 novembre 2012 - 05:19 .
Lizardviking wrote...
I am talking about an end sequence that goes from your typical "Desperate battle against impossible odds" to some weird sequence filled with dreamy music and symbolism. In a series that has for the most part been rather straightfoward when it comes to these things. We go from a story whose main goal was "Stop the Reapers" to "Help Starkid solve the issue of conflict between organic and synthethic life.".
The tone of the ending does fit with the rest of trilogy.
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