889 réponses à ce sujet

[ghost9191]

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@dreman

if you are going to quote. quote the whole thing. it is no longer shepard. shep died, giving birth to a AI , same as grunt was based on memories of past krogan but was his own person. it follows shepards path, has the memories , which influenced how it handled things, such as renegade or paragon. but it is not shepard

Grunt was not based on past Krogan minds. We was just taught about them in the tank.
And everything thing the Shaprd AI say just means itusto be human and is no longer.

youtu.be/m5J-QDTM8Zk


it is up to u . but shepard , your shep died at the end. giving birth to that. memories and such ( same as okeer tried to do with grunt ) guide it , give it "reason" but it is not the same

might i add that is pretty much the same as destroy, but desstroy has the united races doing everything the reapers do in control. yay for learning and fixing our own problems :innocent: oh and london is clearly brighter in destroy . coincidence? i think not

but this is off topic.

the ending being bad had nothing to do with choice, well for some yes. but had to do with resolving a issue that wasn't there. might have been but pretty sure i solved that over rannoch . which rannoch ,geth and qurians weren't even mentioned. the f*cktard reaper destroyer on rannoch got to bring it up as a argument for the harvest , why couldn't we against it?  i was expecting a destroy / control resolution. not really synthesis . but more just what you would rather do . destroy or harness it

Modifié par ghost9191, 04 novembre 2012 - 05:53 .

[Redbelle]

Seival wrote...

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

Seival wrote...

You are asking wrong questions. Correct ones would be:
 - Is destruction the only way?
 - Maybe TIM was right after all?
 - Do I really want to kill my friends to reach my target, while there are other ways to deal with the problem?
 - Am I ready to assume direct control, am I ready to such responsibility?
 - Why should I cause any more deaths today, if there are other valid ways to stop the Reapers?
 - Am I ready to sacrifice myself for the sake of entire galaxy?
 - Why would the Catalyst lie to me, if it could just left me to die instead of talking?
...
And so on.

...It's as easy as that.

Hmmm, the answers to those questions is......









IT.

The answers to those questions are the ones you made yourself, embracing the story, and accepting each part of it as it is.

Did you just say you support IT? Cause she has made her own answers. Embraced the story and accepted it for what it is. Which again has led to her own answers.

And you have just essentially said that you support that view even though she brought up Indoctionation Theory.

Or Instant Toasties. Both help sooth the savage endings.

[DrGunjah]

Mcfly616 wrote...
please list the ways in which it doesn't make sense before calling on ignorant. Because you sound like the ignorant one. I have no problem with anybody based on whether they like the ending or not. It's all based on how they carry themselves and act. For instance, I never attacked anybody in my first post. I simply agreed with what I read of the OP and the sci fi novels and what not. Yet, some troll wants to take something I said and turn it into an insult towards themselves.....whatever lol. They're the ones that look ignorant. As do you with your last post

evac scene (even the condition for it); anderson on the citadel; reapers bringing the citadel to earth to protect it and then open a backdoor; shepard alive after being hit by a reaper laser; crucible getting attached even with lowest possible EMS; there is no decent explanation how RGB works so it must be space magic.
Just to name a few. I know pro-enders will come with flimsy arguments and explanations. For example I asked "why is anderson on the citadel?" and I get an answer like "oh uhm he waited for harbinger to fly away and then sneaked in".
Of course, one can find a crappy explanation for everything but that doesn't mean it suddenly makes sense. These explanations just lead to new questions and every "stage" adds more and more absurdness.

[dreman9999]

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@dreman

if you are going to quote. quote the whole thing. it is no longer shepard. shep died, giving birth to a AI , same as grunt was based on memories of past krogan but was his own person. it follows shepards path, has the memories , which influenced how it handled things, such as renegade or paragon. but it is not shepard

Grunt was not based on past Krogan minds. We was just taught about them in the tank.
And everything thing the Shaprd AI say just means itusto be human and is no longer.

youtu.be/m5J-QDTM8Zk


it is up to u . but shepard , your shep died at the end. giving birth to that. memories and such ( same as okeer tried to do with grunt ) guide it , give it "reason" but it is not the same

might i add that is pretty much the same as destroy, but desstroy has the united races doing everything the reapers do in control. yay for learning and fixing our own problems :innocent: oh and london is clearly brighter in destroy . coincidence? i think not

Shepard state as a human die but lives on as an AI. That is all that mean.

[ghost9191]

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@dreman

if you are going to quote. quote the whole thing. it is no longer shepard. shep died, giving birth to a AI , same as grunt was based on memories of past krogan but was his own person. it follows shepards path, has the memories , which influenced how it handled things, such as renegade or paragon. but it is not shepard

Grunt was not based on past Krogan minds. We was just taught about them in the tank.
And everything thing the Shaprd AI say just means itusto be human and is no longer.

youtu.be/m5J-QDTM8Zk


it is up to u . but shepard , your shep died at the end. giving birth to that. memories and such ( same as okeer tried to do with grunt ) guide it , give it "reason" but it is not the same

might i add that is pretty much the same as destroy, but desstroy has the united races doing everything the reapers do in control. yay for learning and fixing our own problems :innocent: oh and london is clearly brighter in destroy . coincidence? i think not

Shepard state as a human die but lives on as an AI. That is all that mean.

and reborn as a reaper. but it is not the same shepard. it is a machine. with sheps memories as a guide and influence. but off topic

[Mcfly616]

jstme wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Arcian wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

The ending was not made for genius authors. It was made for players. You know, the ones who hate it.

Op's point is foryou to think about the endings and stop blindly hating it.

What the hell is there to think about?

The morality of ends vs means.
The morality of advancement.
The issues of control vs free will.

pretty sure the ppl that hate them have thought about them . which is probably why they hate them. just because someone heates it doesn't mean its blind. probably a good reason . same as liking them

Calling the ending genocide, tranny , and  genetic distruption does not point to much thinking of the meaningof the ending...Just that they did not like the final question that was asked.

Trying to amateurishly force well known semi-philosophical themes from other places into unfitting ME narrative in an abhorent depressing grimdark emo way makes it bad ending.
Going full hipster mode "it is ,like, deep, and has, like ,meaning and stuff" is not going to fool anyone.

the themes the ending choices presented, have been ever-present since the beginning of the series.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 04 novembre 2012 - 05:58 .

[dreman9999]

DrGunjah wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
please list the ways in which it doesn't make sense before calling on ignorant. Because you sound like the ignorant one. I have no problem with anybody based on whether they like the ending or not. It's all based on how they carry themselves and act. For instance, I never attacked anybody in my first post. I simply agreed with what I read of the OP and the sci fi novels and what not. Yet, some troll wants to take something I said and turn it into an insult towards themselves.....whatever lol. They're the ones that look ignorant. As do you with your last post

evac scene (even the condition for it); anderson on the citadel; reapers bringing the citadel to earth to protect it and then open a backdoor; shepard alive after being hit by a reaper laser; crucible getting attached even with lowest possible EMS; there is no decent explanation how RGB works so it must be space magic.
Just to name a few. I know pro-enders will come with flimsy arguments and explanations. For example I asked "why is anderson on the citadel?" and I get an answer like "oh uhm he waited for harbinger to fly away and then sneaked in".
Of course, one can find a crappy explanation for everything but that doesn't mean it suddenly makes sense. These explanations just lead to new questions and every "stage" adds more and more absurdness.

Shepard was not hit by the lazer.
The normandy was close by.
The cunduit was clearly not a back door.
The crucible getting attached even with lowest possible EMS is not a plot hole.
 The catalyst says destroy effects all tech, and control has you replace it equaling rewrite for reapers.

[Grubas]

dreman9999 wrote...
1.The catalyst expalines why destroy tagets synthetics.
2.Control effects what is in the catalyst system of control . Other AI's are not in the catalyst system of control.
3.But it does explain out side of synthesis clearly. Also, Shepard is just a sample.

4.How control and synthesis work destroys Shepards body. Destroy effects all tech...Which Shepardis only alive becaosue of.

I know what the catalyst says. It just that the reasons are so convenient. 
Shepard accidently makes it into the beam.
Shepard accidently stumbles upon the Citadel control room.
Shepard just accidently is the only one that makes it to the catalyst chamber. 

Destroy affects all tech, one might think the Catalyst knows how to build something that distinguishes between Reapertech and Nonreapers.
And yes it can, alas only for control. What a shame.

Synthesis makes no sense, and isnt foreshadowed anywhere in the game. Nowhere do we face a true techno/bio hybrid hybredised to the core of its DNA. Actually Synthetics ... have no DNA. How do you hybredise them?

Quarian/Geth conflict shows how to believable  solve the organics- synthetic conflict. 
 

Modifié par Grubas, 04 novembre 2012 - 06:01 .

[Seival]

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@dreman

if you are going to quote. quote the whole thing. it is no longer shepard. shep died, giving birth to a AI , same as grunt was based on memories of past krogan but was his own person. it follows shepards path, has the memories , which influenced how it handled things, such as renegade or paragon. but it is not shepard

Grunt was not based on past Krogan minds. We was just taught about them in the tank.
And everything thing the Shaprd AI say just means itusto be human and is no longer.

youtu.be/m5J-QDTM8Zk


it is up to u . but shepard , your shep died at the end. giving birth to that. memories and such ( same as okeer tried to do with grunt ) guide it , give it "reason" but it is not the same

might i add that is pretty much the same as destroy, but desstroy has the united races doing everything the reapers do in control. yay for learning and fixing our own problems :innocent: oh and london is clearly brighter in destroy . coincidence? i think not

I'm afraid that there will be no United Fleet after Destroy. Everyone will go to solve their own problems and get to their own troubles. The history will repeat itself, and everything, even Reapers and Cycles will reincarnate in slightly different form with absolutely the same meaning. Shepard's ideals will be forgotten, and everyone will face the same end with the same choices...

...I'm not going to say that Destroy is not a valid ending. I just want to say that I don't like this ending.

[dreman9999]

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

And also you can't refuse the choices in the pitt.
 

You can't refuse the choices in the pitt, but I picked refusal none the less.

BS.Not doing anything in the pitt is the same as siding with the radiers.It hasthe same end result.

[ghost9191]

Seival wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@dreman

if you are going to quote. quote the whole thing. it is no longer shepard. shep died, giving birth to a AI , same as grunt was based on memories of past krogan but was his own person. it follows shepards path, has the memories , which influenced how it handled things, such as renegade or paragon. but it is not shepard

Grunt was not based on past Krogan minds. We was just taught about them in the tank.
And everything thing the Shaprd AI say just means itusto be human and is no longer.

youtu.be/m5J-QDTM8Zk


it is up to u . but shepard , your shep died at the end. giving birth to that. memories and such ( same as okeer tried to do with grunt ) guide it , give it "reason" but it is not the same

might i add that is pretty much the same as destroy, but desstroy has the united races doing everything the reapers do in control. yay for learning and fixing our own problems :innocent: oh and london is clearly brighter in destroy . coincidence? i think not

I'm afraid that there will be no United Fleet after Destroy. Everyone will go to solve their own problems and get to their own troubles. The history will repeat itself, and everything, even Reapers and Cycles will reincarnate in slightly different form with absolutely the same meaning. Shepard's ideals will be forgotten, and everyone will face the same end with the same choices...

...I'm not going to say that Destroy is not a valid ending. I just want to say that I don't like this ending.

see ec for evidence of united fleet over earth

which is fine, guess i would rather give the races the chance rather then the certainty of having it happen with control. btw read op of this page

but hey if your wish is to kill your shep to have it become a ai god that rules over organics then so be it

I'm not going to say that control is not a valid ending. I just want to say that i don't like this ending :innocent:

Modifié par ghost9191, 04 novembre 2012 - 06:04 .

[Seival]

Redbelle wrote...

Seival wrote...

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

Seival wrote...

You are asking wrong questions. Correct ones would be:
 - Is destruction the only way?
 - Maybe TIM was right after all?
 - Do I really want to kill my friends to reach my target, while there are other ways to deal with the problem?
 - Am I ready to assume direct control, am I ready to such responsibility?
 - Why should I cause any more deaths today, if there are other valid ways to stop the Reapers?
 - Am I ready to sacrifice myself for the sake of entire galaxy?
 - Why would the Catalyst lie to me, if it could just left me to die instead of talking?
...
And so on.

...It's as easy as that.

Hmmm, the answers to those questions is......









IT.

The answers to those questions are the ones you made yourself, embracing the story, and accepting each part of it as it is.

Did you just say you support IT? Cause she has made her own answers. Embraced the story and accepted it for what it is. Which again has led to her own answers.

And you have just essentially said that you support that view even though she brought up Indoctionation Theory.

Or Instant Toasties. Both help sooth the savage endings.

Accepting the endings as they are is not an IT support.

IT is an attempt to refuse almost everything the story is about, and I can't support this.

[dreman9999]

Grubas wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.The catalyst expalines why destroy tagets synthetics.
2.Control effects what is in the catalyst system of control . Other AI's are not in the catalyst system of control.
3.But it does explain out side of synthesis clearly. Also, Shepard is just a sample.

4.How control and synthesis work destroys Shepards body. Destroy effects all tech...Which Shepardis only alive becaosue of.

I know what the catalyst says. It just that the reasons are so convenient. 
Shepard accidently makes it into the beam.
Shepard accidently stumbles upon the Citadel control room.
Shepard just accidently is the only one that makes it to the catalyst chamber. 

Destroy affects all tech, one might think the Catalyst knows how to build something that distinguishes between Reapertech and Nonreapers.
And yes it can, alas only for control. What a shame.

Synthesis makes no sense, and isnt foreshadowed anywhere in the game. Nowhere do we face a true techno/bio hybrid hybredised to the core of its DNA. Actually Synthetics ... have no DNA. How do you hybredise them?
 

1. The catalyst did not build the crucible nor planned it. Why would it be able have it not effect   non reaper AI. Added EDI and the geth use reaper code anyway. They still would be effected.
2.synthesis is a question of the moralities of advancement and ends vs means. It's just their to persent that question. You don't have to pick it.
Do note what thecatalyst goals are. Remeber that it need you to select synthesis.
It's a machine which goal it to do what it's programmed to do and it sees Shepard as a way to do that. It goal is not to win.

The quarian-geth conflict show the example of conflict with unshackled AI. The conflict with shackledAI is different.

Modifié par dreman9999, 04 novembre 2012 - 06:14 .

[dreman9999]

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@dreman

if you are going to quote. quote the whole thing. it is no longer shepard. shep died, giving birth to a AI , same as grunt was based on memories of past krogan but was his own person. it follows shepards path, has the memories , which influenced how it handled things, such as renegade or paragon. but it is not shepard

Grunt was not based on past Krogan minds. We was just taught about them in the tank.
And everything thing the Shaprd AI say just means itusto be human and is no longer.

youtu.be/m5J-QDTM8Zk


it is up to u . but shepard , your shep died at the end. giving birth to that. memories and such ( same as okeer tried to do with grunt ) guide it , give it "reason" but it is not the same

might i add that is pretty much the same as destroy, but desstroy has the united races doing everything the reapers do in control. yay for learning and fixing our own problems :innocent: oh and london is clearly brighter in destroy . coincidence? i think not

Shepard state as a human die but lives on as an AI. That is all that mean.

and reborn as a reaper. but it is not the same shepard. it is a machine. with sheps memories as a guide and influence. but off topic

A man can say the man he was used to be aggresive. Does that mean that man died?

[Redbelle]

Seival wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@dreman

if you are going to quote. quote the whole thing. it is no longer shepard. shep died, giving birth to a AI , same as grunt was based on memories of past krogan but was his own person. it follows shepards path, has the memories , which influenced how it handled things, such as renegade or paragon. but it is not shepard

Grunt was not based on past Krogan minds. We was just taught about them in the tank.
And everything thing the Shaprd AI say just means itusto be human and is no longer.

youtu.be/m5J-QDTM8Zk


it is up to u . but shepard , your shep died at the end. giving birth to that. memories and such ( same as okeer tried to do with grunt ) guide it , give it "reason" but it is not the same

might i add that is pretty much the same as destroy, but desstroy has the united races doing everything the reapers do in control. yay for learning and fixing our own problems :innocent: oh and london is clearly brighter in destroy . coincidence? i think not

I'm afraid that there will be no United Fleet after Destroy. Everyone will go to solve their own problems and get to their own troubles. The history will repeat itself, and everything, even Reapers and Cycles will reincarnate in slightly different form with absolutely the same meaning. Shepard's ideals will be forgotten, and everyone will face the same end with the same choices...

...I'm not going to say that Destroy is not a valid ending. I just want to say that I don't like this ending.

You talk of humanity only. The relationships with the other races will also have influence on the future of humanity. The citadel council, a united front already, will have witnessed the awesome power their galaxy possesses when everyone pulls together. Lessons learnt will go onto making better AI's in the vain of the Geth and Edi who are not slaves but companions. troubling times will come again and as in every such time the sentient's of our cycle will overcome their differences in some way, shape or form and rise to the challenge. When extinction call's their mettle will be tested and their true characters will be revealed, not when times are easy. But when they are hard.

About the IT thing: Ok, just wanted to be clear.

Modifié par Redbelle, 04 novembre 2012 - 06:09 .

[ghost9191]

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@dreman

if you are going to quote. quote the whole thing. it is no longer shepard. shep died, giving birth to a AI , same as grunt was based on memories of past krogan but was his own person. it follows shepards path, has the memories , which influenced how it handled things, such as renegade or paragon. but it is not shepard

Grunt was not based on past Krogan minds. We was just taught about them in the tank.
And everything thing the Shaprd AI say just means itusto be human and is no longer.

youtu.be/m5J-QDTM8Zk


it is up to u . but shepard , your shep died at the end. giving birth to that. memories and such ( same as okeer tried to do with grunt ) guide it , give it "reason" but it is not the same

might i add that is pretty much the same as destroy, but desstroy has the united races doing everything the reapers do in control. yay for learning and fixing our own problems :innocent: oh and london is clearly brighter in destroy . coincidence? i think not

Shepard state as a human die but lives on as an AI. That is all that mean.

and reborn as a reaper. but it is not the same shepard. it is a machine. with sheps memories as a guide and influence. but off topic

A man can say the man he was used to be aggresive. Does that mean that man died?

well if that man killed him self to create a new AI to control the reapers, then yes, yes it does

[dreman9999]

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

And also you can't refuse the choices in the pitt.
 

You can't refuse the choices in the pitt, but I picked refusal none the less.

BS.Not doing anything in the pitt is the same as siding with the radiers.It hasthe same end result.

If a tree falls and no one is around.
Does it make a sound?

It 's just not heard.
 The point still is you were there in the pitt. When you see the results would mean you ether made a chocie or ran.

[dreman9999]

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@dreman

if you are going to quote. quote the whole thing. it is no longer shepard. shep died, giving birth to a AI , same as grunt was based on memories of past krogan but was his own person. it follows shepards path, has the memories , which influenced how it handled things, such as renegade or paragon. but it is not shepard

Grunt was not based on past Krogan minds. We was just taught about them in the tank.
And everything thing the Shaprd AI say just means itusto be human and is no longer.

youtu.be/m5J-QDTM8Zk


it is up to u . but shepard , your shep died at the end. giving birth to that. memories and such ( same as okeer tried to do with grunt ) guide it , give it "reason" but it is not the same

might i add that is pretty much the same as destroy, but desstroy has the united races doing everything the reapers do in control. yay for learning and fixing our own problems :innocent: oh and london is clearly brighter in destroy . coincidence? i think not

Shepard state as a human die but lives on as an AI. That is all that mean.

and reborn as a reaper. but it is not the same shepard. it is a machine. with sheps memories as a guide and influence. but off topic

A man can say the man he was used to be aggresive. Does that mean that man died?

well if that man killed him self to create a new AI to control the reapers, then yes, yes it does

A bodies death doe not mean the person died.

[HellbirdIV]

Harry Harrison would love ME3 ending. As would any genius sci-fi writer.

Translation: "I'm a genius for liking the ending! I'm smaaaaart! Yeeeeaaaah!"

What makes Deathworld anymore "classic" and "real" Scifi than older science fiction such as War of the Worlds, Flash Gordon, 1984 or Captain Z-Ro?

[Eterna]

I laughed at the title, not because I necessarily disagree, but because I knew this thread would have a lot of lol worthy arguing.

[Redbelle]

Eterna5 wrote...

I laughed at the title, not because I necessarily disagree, but because I knew this thread would have a lot of lol worthy arguing.

...........................You can't leave now Eterna.............................. The door doesn't open from the inside........................


Mwahaha!

Modifié par Redbelle, 04 novembre 2012 - 06:15 .