90 réponses à ce sujet

[Terrorize69]

LinksOcarina wrote...

I'm not surprised. It seems one of the ways to make your fantasy world unique now is to add firearms to it with bows and what not.

Look at Warhammer, they have been doing it for 20 years. Or Fable, Warcraft, Guild Wars, even Project Eternity hints at it.

Historically though, if Cannon's exist, then it would be a matter of time to see the technology of firearms to come to past. One thing that was implied but quickly shot down was how Javaris was trying to get black powder so that it could become portable. Since the Qunari have advanced technology in the use of gaatlock anyway, so I can see it happening realistically down the road.

Just not now though, and as David said, likely never to happen anytime soon.

Historically magic didn't/doesn't exist (Or so most are led to belief).

A magical world wouldn't be in such a rush to "invent" a inferior weapon when compared to magic, when they already have repeating crossbows. At least cannons have there uses.

Modifié par Terrorize69, 05 novembre 2012 - 01:17 .

[Knight of Dane]

"They" don't have repeating crossbows, Varric does.

Besides, the hate on towards magic in general society should more than suffice for the development of firepower that could equal theirs without the use of blood or lyrium.

That being said, I'd rather liv without it.

I don't know why but I have always hated firepower in fantasy settings except for standard bows.

[Realmzmaster]

Rawgrim wrote...

Allready seen a firearm. Varric`s crossbow. Fires 200 arrows at once, even though a crossbow is pretty much know for being a very slow weapon. His crossbow also fires grenades and whatsnot. thats firearm enough for you. Arguably better than an AK-47 too.

Actually the first firearm was my rogue warden's bow in Awakening. That bow or any bow in Awakening did everything Varric crossbow does and more!

[Rawgrim]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Allready seen a firearm. Varric`s crossbow. Fires 200 arrows at once, even though a crossbow is pretty much know for being a very slow weapon. His crossbow also fires grenades and whatsnot. thats firearm enough for you. Arguably better than an AK-47 too.

Actually the first firearm was my rogue warden's bow in Awakening. That bow or any bow in Awakening did everything Varric crossbow does and more!

Quite right. So we do have "AK-47s" in Thedas allready.

[Realmzmaster]

Rawgrim wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Allready seen a firearm. Varric`s crossbow. Fires 200 arrows at once, even though a crossbow is pretty much know for being a very slow weapon. His crossbow also fires grenades and whatsnot. thats firearm enough for you. Arguably better than an AK-47 too.

Actually the first firearm was my rogue warden's bow in Awakening. That bow or any bow in Awakening did everything Varric crossbow does and more!

Quite right. So we do have "AK-47s" in Thedas allready.

The Awakening expansion overpowered every class.

[WhiteThunder]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Allready seen a firearm. Varric`s crossbow. Fires 200 arrows at once, even though a crossbow is pretty much know for being a very slow weapon. His crossbow also fires grenades and whatsnot. thats firearm enough for you. Arguably better than an AK-47 too.

Actually the first firearm was my rogue warden's bow in Awakening. That bow or any bow in Awakening did everything Varric crossbow does and more!

Quite right. So we do have "AK-47s" in Thedas allready.

The Awakening expansion overpowered every class.

Hey, now.  My mage was already unkillable by the end of Origins, Awakening only made battles quicker, not easier.

[Rawgrim]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Allready seen a firearm. Varric`s crossbow. Fires 200 arrows at once, even though a crossbow is pretty much know for being a very slow weapon. His crossbow also fires grenades and whatsnot. thats firearm enough for you. Arguably better than an AK-47 too.

Actually the first firearm was my rogue warden's bow in Awakening. That bow or any bow in Awakening did everything Varric crossbow does and more!

Quite right. So we do have "AK-47s" in Thedas allready.

The Awakening expansion overpowered every class.

Well, my character was allready overpowered by that time. I started Awakening when my character was level 20. Mostly I just hacked my way through the game. Didn`t bother much with the new abilities. I will take your word for it, though.

[Terrorize69]

Knight of Dane wrote...

"They" don't have repeating crossbows, Varric does.

Besides, the hate on towards magic in general society should more than suffice for the development of firepower that could equal theirs without the use of blood or lyrium.

That being said, I'd rather liv without it.

I don't know why but I have always hated firepower in fantasy settings except for standard bows.

So you believe Varris is the only person to hold a repeating crossbow? Highly unlikely, I don't have Varric down as a master weaponsmith able to craft a unique weapon for himself.

[Direwolf0294]

I wouldn't mind seeing the Dragon Age series move towards the Renaissance and Industrial age like Fable 2 and 3 did. They'd have to rename the series though, call it Industrial Age or Tech Age or something.

[DarthLaxian]

Terrorize69 wrote...

So you believe Varris is the only person to hold a repeating crossbow? Highly unlikely, I don't have Varric down as a master weaponsmith able to craft a unique weapon for himself.

he is - because he worked with somebody who he constructed bianca with (she was the only working prototype at the end of that partnership and he kept her...at least that is what i gained from the DA2 Lore)

as for guns (muskets - nothing more fancy, at least not yet, also it would be fun to have a rogue gunslinger (with revolvers) dueling a mage...or trying to damage a golem *laughs*):

yes i would like to have them as a kind of combat starter weapon that most characters can use (even mages - also they would not probably) that are fired at the start of combat (to do initial damage) and then stashed as reloading in combat (if you are not behind cover or if those weapons are not used like in the battles of that time in RL - meaning armies faced each other and fired, reloaded, fired, reloaded and so on (which was kind of stupid IMHO!)) is kind of stupid as everyone can hack you to bits while you are fumbling with pouder, musket-ball etc.)

and yes i want to see those quunari-cannons, too because i want to wack them over the head, steal them and then use them for a siege

greetings LAX

[Nerevar-as]

Terrorize69 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

I'm not surprised. It seems one of the ways to make your fantasy world unique now is to add firearms to it with bows and what not.

Look at Warhammer, they have been doing it for 20 years. Or Fable, Warcraft, Guild Wars, even Project Eternity hints at it.

Historically though, if Cannon's exist, then it would be a matter of time to see the technology of firearms to come to past. One thing that was implied but quickly shot down was how Javaris was trying to get black powder so that it could become portable. Since the Qunari have advanced technology in the use of gaatlock anyway, so I can see it happening realistically down the road.

Just not now though, and as David said, likely never to happen anytime soon.

Historically magic didn't/doesn't exist (Or so most are led to belief).

A magical world wouldn't be in such a rush to "invent" a inferior weapon when compared to magic, when they already have repeating crossbows. At least cannons have there uses.

Only a few can use magic, and at best they are feared if not hated. Besides, AFAIK, fire weapons became more common because they required less training rather than being better from the beginning.

[Knight of Dane]

Terrorize69 wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

"They" don't have repeating crossbows, Varric does.

Besides, the hate on towards magic in general society should more than suffice for the development of firepower that could equal theirs without the use of blood or lyrium.

That being said, I'd rather liv without it.

I don't know why but I have always hated firepower in fantasy settings except for standard bows.

So you believe Varris is the only person to hold a repeating crossbow? Highly unlikely, I don't have Varric down as a master weaponsmith able to craft a unique weapon for himself.

Yet that's the story told in Legacy DLC

Crazy dwarf from the carta tried to design a new type of repeating crossbow, Bianca was the only one that ever worked.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 05 novembre 2012 - 11:03 .

[Swagger7]

I like old firearms, but don't mind that we likely won't see them in DA. (although a special hand-held cannon ability for Shale would be epic) If you want guns in your fantasy RPG, check out Project Eternity.

[CaribWarrior J]

Thanks David. I support no firearms for Dragon Age.

[Giant ambush beetle]

David Gaider wrote...

oberst2 wrote...
am no taking about m16 or the ak 47 am am mene ting like musket or hand cannon.
qunari do have and explosing power of the gaatlok and do have muzzeloding or Breech-loading cannon 
way no hand holding fire are in game npc or better for the pc 

Firearms as in cannons, sure. Firearms as in hand-held firearms of any kind-- no, that's highly unlikely.

Why didn't the Qunari invent small hand held cannons? If they have large cannons designing scaled-down versions for the infantry is the next logical step.
Any logical explanation for this?

And no, I do NOT want boomsticks in DA, it just makes little sense that the Qunari have cannons but no hand held firearms - Its like having the technology to build large ballistas but nobody builds bows / crossbows.

Modifié par The Woldan , 05 novembre 2012 - 01:46 .

[Spedfrom]

None whatsoever is the answer I was looking for. Even cannons aren't that great of an addition becase as LinksOcarina said, how can you have cannons but not gunpowder handheld guns? Miniaturization is an obvious next step.

Modifié par Spedfrom, 05 novembre 2012 - 02:25 .

[JediHealerCosmin]

We have fireballs shooting out of people's hands. What more could you want?

[DarthLaxian]

guns (which help normal people against mages (because of say: more range and better accurracy compared to handheld-fireball) and it still would be cool to see a gun armed person to try and take a mage down )

so still:

yes please, but only muskets/single shot pistoles for starters.

greetings LAX

[Bernhardtbr]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The Awakening expansion overpowered every class.

Awakening sucked balls. Not only what you said, but having good relations was VERY easy. Definitedly a very average-ish expansion and nowhere as good as Hordes of the Underdark for Neverwinter Nights for example.

Why use machine guns if Chain lightining kills just as well hehe.

[Terrorize69]

The Woldan wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

oberst2 wrote...
am no taking about m16 or the ak 47 am am mene ting like musket or hand cannon.
qunari do have and explosing power of the gaatlok and do have muzzeloding or Breech-loading cannon 
way no hand holding fire are in game npc or better for the pc 

Firearms as in cannons, sure. Firearms as in hand-held firearms of any kind-- no, that's highly unlikely.

Why didn't the Qunari invent small hand held cannons? If they have large cannons designing scaled-down versions for the infantry is the next logical step.
Any logical explanation for this?

And no, I do NOT want boomsticks in DA, it just makes little sense that the Qunari have cannons but no hand held firearms - Its like having the technology to build large ballistas but nobody builds bows / crossbows.

Prehaps Qunari fear it would be too close to magic, and their views on magic is clear.

[Iron Star]

Terrorize69 wrote...

The Woldan wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

oberst2 wrote...
am no taking about m16 or the ak 47 am am mene ting like musket or hand cannon.
qunari do have and explosing power of the gaatlok and do have muzzeloding or Breech-loading cannon 
way no hand holding fire are in game npc or better for the pc 

Firearms as in cannons, sure. Firearms as in hand-held firearms of any kind-- no, that's highly unlikely.

Why didn't the Qunari invent small hand held cannons? If they have large cannons designing scaled-down versions for the infantry is the next logical step.
Any logical explanation for this?

And no, I do NOT want boomsticks in DA, it just makes little sense that the Qunari have cannons but no hand held firearms - Its like having the technology to build large ballistas but nobody builds bows / crossbows.

Prehaps Qunari fear it would be too close to magic, and their views on magic is clear.

Maybe it's because they fear that if one of their potential gunmen were killed by the bas (non-qunari), they'd easily be able to pick up the dead qunari's gun and gaatlok and copy it. The dreadnoughts are probably not at risk because if they were taken down they'd sink into the ocean, with gaatlok and cannons and all. It'd be pretty hard for anybody to get down to the bottom of the ocean and then come back up to the surface carrying a friggin' cannon. The gaatlok, if it's anything like real-world gunpowder would also be destroyed by the water. Just a guess but to me it seems logical.

[Giltspur]

The Woldan wrote...

Why didn't the Qunari invent small hand held cannons? If they have large cannons designing scaled-down versions for the infantry is the next logical step.
Any logical explanation for this?

Maybe the Qunari see themselves as having melee superiority over other races and are forbidding the development of smaller weapons since they think it will benefit the smaller races in battle more than it would them, since if the Qunari develop it, it could hasten other races' development of it.

And it's believable the Qunari could actually restrict the advance of knowledge through their philosophy.  Granted, we usually think we should develop weapons technology since someone else will do it anyway.  So why don't the Qunari feel that way and get in an arms race.  Perhaps they keep an eye on other races' technology through spies and don't yet feel threatened by other races on that front.

With ships, Qunari physicality gives them no advantage in a naval battle--so they allow the development of such weapons.

Granted, why not develop handheld guns for use against the Tevinter?  Not sure.  Maybe the Saarebas are in their minds sufficient counter.  

[WhiteThunder]

Bernhardtbr wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The Awakening expansion overpowered every class.

Awakening sucked balls. Not only what you said, but having good relations was VERY easy. Definitedly a very average-ish expansion and nowhere as good as Hordes of the Underdark for Neverwinter Nights for example.

Why use machine guns if Chain lightining kills just as well hehe.

Still better than DA2, IMO.

And the best justification for guns I've seen is Project Eternity where they're pretty much just a counter for mages'  shielding spells.

[nightscrawl]

The Woldan wrote...

Why didn't the Qunari invent small hand held cannons? If they have large cannons designing scaled-down versions for the infantry is the next logical step.
Any logical explanation for this?

And no, I do NOT want boomsticks in DA, it just makes little sense that the Qunari have cannons but no hand held firearms - Its like having the technology to build large ballistas but nobody builds bows / crossbows.

While yes, the next logical progression in real life was to make hand cannons, from there to be refined, perfected, and miniaturized over the next 600 years to our current handguns, doesn't mean that it's the next step for the Qunari. In real life we don't have mages. Necessity is the mother of invention. Now, if this were being discussed about dwarves, I would find it much more likely, simply because dwarves don't have magic.

Perhaps given time the Qunari might invent such a thing, but they don't have them right now, and might not for the next five games in the series. We don't know how old their current technology is, we don't know if they have prototypes of handguns (prototype = not for use by the general public, or even exceptional PCs.)

The bottom line is that when it comes to Qunari technology we know extremely little, certainly not enough to make any grand assumptions on their development capabilities. Also, consider that the Qunari "guard their powder carefully" as Hawke states to the Arishok. I would think that any developments would be communicated on a need-to-know basis, and most of the general populace among the Qunari don't need to know, and bas certainly count for even less.

I think that Bioware gave themselves considerable leeway with this because of the type of culture that the Qunari have (very closed), which also includes the use of magic in combat.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 05 novembre 2012 - 07:04 .

[Heimdall]

The Woldan wrote...
Why didn't the Qunari invent small hand held cannons? If they have large cannons designing scaled-down versions for the infantry is the next logical step.
Any logical explanation for this?

And no, I do NOT want boomsticks in DA, it just makes little sense that the Qunari have cannons but no hand held firearms - Its like having the technology to build large ballistas but nobody builds bows / crossbows.

. I suspect that the Qunari specifically developed the gaatlok and cannons for use as artillery on land and sea.  While they probably considered miniaturization, they probably considered such weapons too easy to lose into enemy hands when compared to their heavier and less numerous counterparts

Furthermore, early firearms were extremely inaccurate and hazardous to their own wielders.  The bow remained the more accurate weapon for a very long time with firearms being used largely for the benefit of scaring the day lights out of enemy horses.  They may simply have not seen sufficient advantage (Especially given the apparent deficit of horses in Thedosian societ )

Lastly, Qunari society chooses its soldiers at a young age and trains them for that role their entire lives.  One of the benefits of firearms is the lower level of training required to use them effectively when compared to older methods of warfare.  It would seem to run counter to their overall philosophy to seek that advantage.