90 réponses à ce sujet

[nightscrawl]

Lord Aesir wrote...

I suspect that the Qunari specifically developed the gaatlok and cannons for use as artillery on land and sea.  While they probably considered miniaturization, they probably considered such weapons too easy to lose into enemy hands when compared to their heavier and less numerous counterparts

Great point!

[WhiteThunder]

Lord Aesir wrote...


early firearms were extremely inaccurate and hazardous to their own wielders.  The bow remained the more accurate weapon for a very long time with firearms being used largely for the benefit of scaring the day lights out of enemy horses.  They may simply have not seen sufficient advantage (Especially given the apparent deficit of horses in Thedosian societ )

You're selling firearms a little short, here.  By the 30 Years War firearms were extremely effective as a weapon against infantry when used as part of an organized army.

[Degs29]

I hope very little. Several other franchises have gone this way to their detriment.

[Heimdall]

WhiteThunder wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
early firearms were extremely inaccurate and hazardous to their own wielders.  The bow remained the more accurate weapon for a very long time with firearms being used largely for the benefit of scaring the day lights out of enemy horses.  They may simply have not seen sufficient advantage (Especially given the apparent deficit of horses in Thedosian societ )

You're selling firearms a little short, here.  By the 30 Years War firearms were extremely effective as a weapon against infantry when used as part of an organized army.

Assuming they've gotten that far, I've been under the impression that the cannons the Qunari use are fairly primitive, more analogous to what the Ottomans used to take down the walls of Constantinople long before the 30 years war.

Early firearms did become effective tools against infantry, but the Qunari's problem has always been with countering mages rather than infantry, where they tend to have an advantage.  Given the general inaccuracy of early firearms and slow reload times, I don't think handheld firearms would be terribly effective as a solution, especially since their wielders often ended up covered with a dusting of gunpowder.  Fireball anyone?  Introducing Saarebas as tools of war probably seemed more useful.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 05 novembre 2012 - 07:36 .

[cindercatz]

Also, the Qunari are extremely restrictive with most anything they see as difficult to control. The Qun is kind of a pack philosophy. Cheap, portable guns (like crossbows) are the insurgent's weapon of choice. So I imagine the Qunari would be exceptionally wary of their version of gunpowder getting out into their own general public, even the average military unit. Like their mages, it has its uses, but they'll limit them more than most cultures would deem reasonable, to maintain order and cohesion of their collective.

There's also the question of what their powder is made of. In DA:A, the explosives use rare ore and lyrium. If the components of the Qunari powder include exceptionally rare and sparsely mined material, small arms might not make sense, because the expense could outweigh the benefit. So maybe while simple gunpowder might be feasible, that's not actually the technology they've discovered at this point. Maybe they were just unlucky enough to discover a very high cost DA universe alternative first.

edit: If they do discover gunpowder and the secret gets out. I wouldn't mind a single shot, exceptionally slowly loading rifle or pistol to be used as a sidearm or long range fire weapon to complement the primary use of blades, blunts and bows. It would just add an extra option for the off weapon, basically, with its own stategic element. It shouldn't ever be anything like Fable, of course, though that's a fine combat system for a solo action game.

Modifié par cindercatz, 06 novembre 2012 - 06:55 .

[AppealToReason]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Bernhardtbr wrote...

Someone should do a "gunpowder and magic" type of game eventually, but Dragon Age shouldn´t be it.

Well there is Fable.  It sucks but it exists.

The second guns became involved in Fable the franchise plummetted to me.

[Blackrising]

No thank you.
Keep your guns in games like Mass Effect. They have no business in Dragon Age.

[Fredward]

AppealToReason wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Bernhardtbr wrote...

Someone should do a "gunpowder and magic" type of game eventually, but Dragon Age shouldn´t be it.

Well there is Fable.  It sucks but it exists.

The second guns became involved in Fable the franchise plummetted to me.

You can hardly blame the guns for that.

[aries1001]

Let's not forget the bombs (in the game). In Awakening you had to gather saltpetrie, I think? to the city's defense. And a dwarf made bombs (in the game) you could use to the defense of the city.

A program I watched on Danish televison about secrets at the Natural History Museum in London revealed and discovered that the ancient, I think it was, Syrians?, in the 11th or 12th century had what could be seen as a hand grenade (way back then).

As for handweapons in the game such as rifles or machine or assualt rifles (in the game), it cannot be done for various reasons. One of these reasons being that these are modern weapons invented in the 19th or 20th century. If - and I say if - hand guns of any kind were to make it into the game, it would most likely be similar to the rifles being used in the 17th or 18th century. Meaning that they would have to be loaded from the front, a flintlock being used, a string of paper being pushed in, and bullet stuffed down the barrel with a stick. And then, there would be the danger of the weapon backfiring or not firing at all.

In a world, as in Dragon Age's, where a magician, a mage, can turn you into a toad or make you jump at a momen't notice or make you do what he or she wants just be pointed a finger at you, magic is way more efficient than any type of handheld muskets described above. A mage can gather fire or ice storms, conjure up earthquakes or bring you into a maze in which you cannot move at all.

Magic is, as I see it, as said, much more efficient than any handheld weapons in any DA game.

[Zkyire]

Blackrising wrote...

No thank you.
Keep your guns in games like Mass Effect. They have no business in Dragon Age.

They already exist in Dragon Age.

Qunari Cannons.

Doesn't matter the size of a gun; it's still a gun whether it's a pistol or a piece of artillery.

Grenades exist in Dragon Age.

Cannons exist in Dragon Age.

Yet the prospect of handheld guns is blasphemy.

Sense, it makes none.

Modifié par Zkyire, 06 novembre 2012 - 10:36 .

[Kahpya]

David Gaider wrote...

oberst2 wrote...
am no taking about m16 or the ak 47 am am mene ting like musket or hand cannon.
qunari do have and explosing power of the gaatlok and do have muzzeloding or Breech-loading cannon 
way no hand holding fire are in game npc or better for the pc 

Firearms as in cannons, sure. Firearms as in hand-held firearms of any kind-- no, that's highly unlikely.

Then i want a portable Cannon as a companion 

[Kahpya]

nikihap wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

oberst2 wrote...
am no taking about m16 or the ak 47 am am mene ting like musket or hand cannon.
qunari do have and explosing power of the gaatlok and do have muzzeloding or Breech-loading cannon 
way no hand holding fire are in game npc or better for the pc 

Firearms as in cannons, sure. Firearms as in hand-held firearms of any kind-- no, that's highly unlikely.

Then i want a portable Cannon as a companion 

P.s I want a genlock to fire it and a whip as a main char weapon to make the genlock fire  can i plz have that David ? pretty please!!!

[WhiteThunder]

simfamSP wrote...

Bernhardtbr wrote...

Someone should do a "gunpowder and magic" type of game eventually, but Dragon Age shouldn´t be it.

Already done.

Oh Arcanum, how deeply do I love you.

Even if the combat is kinda god-awful, even on turn-based.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

David Gaider wrote...

oberst2 wrote...
am no taking about m16 or the ak 47 am am mene ting like musket or hand cannon.
qunari do have and explosing power of the gaatlok and do have muzzeloding or Breech-loading cannon 
way no hand holding fire are in game npc or better for the pc 

Firearms as in cannons, sure. Firearms as in hand-held firearms of any kind-- no, that's highly unlikely.

Thank heaven for small mercies. The longer Dragon Age can avoid becoming another steampunk fantasy, the better. 

Modifié par The Teryn of Whatever, 07 novembre 2012 - 05:28 .

[philippe willaume]

well
There are really no difference between and XVth cent hangun and any magical bow.
hand held weapons were of 3 big type but there really all were siege weapons.

hand gun proper (ie short barrel mounted on a stick)
veuglaire/serpentine/couleuvrine (long barrel mounted on a short stock, some with changing breech for greater fire rate ).
Haquebut (heavier version of all the above with a hook to fire from crenelation or from mantelets).


by 1430 corned powder was available (in Europe), Basically black powder as we know it today.

If canon are being made it would be cool to have ribaultquins.

[ThisIsZad]

firearms is for wussies.....

[cindercatz]

I never finished Arcanum and I can't really play it now with the graphics. I wish somebody would revive the series in a modern game. I loved the complexity of it, all the customization options. Also, there aren't many games that really do steampunk full bore.

I don't want to see DA go steampunk, though.

[Spedfrom]

Zkyire wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

No thank you.
Keep your guns in games like Mass Effect. They have no business in Dragon Age.

They already exist in Dragon Age.

Qunari Cannons.

Doesn't matter the size of a gun; it's still a gun whether it's a pistol or a piece of artillery.

Grenades exist in Dragon Age.

Cannons exist in Dragon Age.

Yet the prospect of handheld guns is blasphemy.

Sense, it makes none.

Well, alright then. But my mages' Arcane Shields are more than enough to withstand gunpowder firearms' shots. Take THAT! 

[Herr Uhl]

WhiteThunder wrote...

Oh Arcanum, how deeply do I love you.

Even if the combat is kinda god-awful, even on turn-based.

Haste cheese is best cheese.

[Agent_Dark_]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Firearms as in cannons, sure. Firearms as in hand-held firearms of any kind-- no, that's highly unlikely.

Thank heaven for small mercies. The longer Dragon Age can avoid becoming another steampunk fantasy, the better. 

What do you mean steampunk?  Guns and Magic work great together, as evidenced by things like Warhammer Fantasy, Guild Wars and Warcraft.  You can't really call any of those franchises 'Steampunk', even if you could point out a few superficial 'steampunk' similarities.

The real issue should be whether it works in the context of the established Dragon Age setting.  With the Qunari having already developed gunpowder based weapons (ie their cannons) then it's completely logical that there could be work on developing more compact firearms.  We don't have to see an army using rifles or anything, but maybe a side-quest about uncovering some R&D on 'strange new weapons' or something.

[gw2005]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

No, because people using swords against those using guns is stupid.

Really? Have you ever wield a real sword? Because if you have then you'd know that it doesn't take a hundred swings to cut down someone in leather armor. Either way realism is a non-issue.

[Archyyy]

I dont see the problem of having firearms. If its logical that theyre developed or copied from the qunari. I also quite like firearms if done probably.

[Shadowomega23]

Bernhardtbr wrote...

Someone should do a "gunpowder and magic" type of game eventually, but Dragon Age shouldn´t be it.

Wizardry 8, Dungeon Siege (all 3 of them) and there are likely more.

Modifié par Shadowomega23, 09 novembre 2012 - 04:32 .