91 réponses à ce sujet

[Yalision]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

When you King says strategy and boredom in the same sentence, the king is an idiot. Loghain made the right call. Unfortunately he blamed you for it. Making him a warden was good punishment. Alister decides he's going to whine and become a drunk.

Now to purge some Orlesians.

Nobody said the king wasn't an idiot.  That doesn't justify Loghains actions though.  You fools live in such a sad black and white world. 

I had a long winded reply going here until I stopped and realized that everyone is entitled to their opinions. I definitely disagree to no end and love Loghain, but debating this topic is like debating politics. You either agree or you don't and very few people are willing to cross borders given any amount of reasoning. I hope Loghain gets a neat cameo.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

When you King says strategy and boredom in the same sentence, the king is an idiot. Loghain made the right call. Unfortunately he blamed you for it. Making him a warden was good punishment. Alister decides he's going to whine and become a drunk.

Now to purge some Orlesians.

Making a strategy to purposely kill a king isn't  a right call. Loghain knew they cannot defeat the darkspawn and yet he still came up with the flanking stupid manuever which he called off at the right timing.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 05 novembre 2012 - 10:32 .

[Althix]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
 Making him a warden was good punishment.

it's not a punishment. it was a calculated action, because Loghain is awesome, and Wardens only stronger with him.

Punishment is to listen Alistar. Sad thing you can't decapitate him by yourself, you can only allow Anora to execute him.

[Yalision]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

When you King says strategy and boredom in the same sentence, the king is an idiot. Loghain made the right call. Unfortunately he blamed you for it. Making him a warden was good punishment. Alister decides he's going to whine and become a drunk.

Now to purge some Orlesians.

Making a strategy to purposely kill a king isn't  a right call either. Loghain knew they cannot defeated the darkspawn and yet he still came up with the flanking stupid manuever which he called off at the right timing.

Loghain wasn't after power. Cailan insisted on fighting a battle that could not be won, no matter what Loghain said, so what else could he do? He came up with a strategy that, while sound, he still knew couldn't work against the numbers headed their way and Cailan still refused to pull back and wait for reinforcements. Loghain wasn't plotting to kill Cailan lol, Loghain simply made a strategic withdrawal rather than kill himself his men in an unwinnable battle for the sake of a child's vanity.

A shame his previous experiences with the Grey Wardens in the Deep Roads weren't all that great either. Also, Sophia Dryden probably didn't help as a historical reference. A shame really since he didn't realize this was an actual Blight flaring up.

I also can't blame the man for being apprehensive of chevaliers marching in to reinforce Ferelden given the horrible things Orlais did during its occupation of Ferelden. Loghain and many Fereldens were veterans who fought with Loghain against the empire only a few decades ago. I'm sure he crapped his pants after reading Cailan's love letters to Celine too (he almost did lol in the Ostagar dlc).

After recruiting Loghain and reading the books, you have a background for the character to make a real judgement. Morally I agree Loghain made douchenozzle decision, but he did what he had to do in order to try and regroup the remaining military strength of Ferelden in hopes of mounting a true defense against the horde, rather than trying to put up a wooden fence in hopes that it will stop an avalanche of boulders careening in his general direction.

Modifié par Yalision, 05 novembre 2012 - 10:41 .

[Arppis]

BouncyFrag wrote...


p.s. whenever I encounter the same voice actor in other video games (most notably in the Mass Effect games), I pretend it is Loghain for added epicness.

He's always Kain for me.

[Doctoglethorpe]

I wonder if you guys even remember the other **** he did aside from his "strategic" betrayal of the king.

He poisoned Arl Eamond cause "just in case." He sold the elves of Denerim into slavery. He took in the treasonous Howe as his closest ally. He branded you (and all wardens) terrorists and put a bounty on your head. And thats just stuff we learn in-game. You add the **** he pulled in the books and... yeah, just an all around swell guy. Totally trust worthy.

Enjoy the knife in your back when he decides to "tactically betray" the wardens too. He's a snake, betrayal is all he's really ever done. Flemeth even bloody said as much herself.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Enjoy the knife in your back when he decides to "tactically betray" the wardens too. He's a snake, betrayal is all he's really ever done. Flemeth even bloody said as much herself.

I did enjoy the knife in the back...... oh wait. That never happened.

Good fanfic idea though.

[Doctoglethorpe]

Yalision wrote...

After recruiting Loghain and reading the books, you have a background for the character to make a real judgement. Morally I agree Loghain made douchenozzle decision, but he did what he had to do in order to try and regroup the remaining military strength of Ferelden in hopes of mounting a true defense against the horde, rather than trying to put up a wooden fence in hopes that it will stop an avalanche of boulders careening in his general direction.

Except he didn't.  His entire strategy would of failed and Fereldan would be one big taint stain if he hadn't been overthrown. 

You can't play the ends justify the means card when the end is catastrophy. 

[Doctoglethorpe]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Enjoy the knife in your back when he decides to "tactically betray" the wardens too. He's a snake, betrayal is all he's really ever done. Flemeth even bloody said as much herself.

I did enjoy the knife in the back...... oh wait. That never happened.

Good fanfic idea though.

Never is a long time, I believe its only been about 10 years. 

But still, your taking that point way too literally.  Its what any sane person should expect if they knew as much as we are able to.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Enjoy the knife in your back when he decides to "tactically betray" the wardens too. He's a snake, betrayal is all he's really ever done. Flemeth even bloody said as much herself.

I did enjoy the knife in the back...... oh wait. That never happened.

Good fanfic idea though.

Never is a long time, I believe its only been about 10 years. 

But still, your taking that point way too literally.  Its what any sane person should expect if they knew as much as we are able to.

10 years and Loghain is still a loyal Warden and does his duty despite his dislike of them. Man, what a great guy.

[Sanunes]

With what happened with Mass Effect 3, I think any Cameo would just frustrate more people then the amount of people it would please. I believe from previous reactions on the BSN if the character isn't going to be a permanent character to your squad there is going to be unending complaints about it. I think the characters would be best left in the previous games where they were a strong character and might be a disappointment in meeting them again.

[EmperorSahlertz]

If he is alive in your playthrough I see no reason for why he shouldn't be present in the game. Otherwise there are obvious reason as to why not, being dead and all.

[ScotGaymer]

Han Shot First wrote...

Having that kingslayer's severed head return in my game would be quite disconcerting. 

For those who spared him however, I'd be for him returning so long as an adequate reason was given for him showing up in Orlais. At some point though Bioware has to draw the line with cameos. I wouldn't want to see every single major character we've run across at some point make a tour of Thedas, conveniently showing up in whatever location the next Dragon Age game is set.

I agree with this.

I really felt that some of the cameos in DA2 made no sense whatsoever.

An example would be Sophia Dryden, she was a fairly threatening character, and was pretty difficult to kill if you chose to take her on. Letting her go was a seriously hard choice, but it was a viable one.
I took a bit of thought and consideration over it.
And for her to pop up as little more than a random mook that Hawke slaughters in about 2 seconds flat in the wounded coast was both nonsensical, and exceedingly dissapointing.

IMO, they really pushed it with the cameos in DA2.

[ashesandwine]

I don't mind him showing up for the people that let him live. I, for one, had him killed at The Landsmeet, and would prefer him stay dead. If BioWare put him in my story, I would have to call foul play on that.

I don't care whether or not his reasons to abandon Cailan and the army is justified. All I care about is that he had me as his enemy, and that is enough to warrant his death.

Modifié par ashesandwine, 05 novembre 2012 - 01:51 .

[AlanC9]

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

You don't know the voice actor of Loghain? What kind of heresy is this! You don't know the awesome, magnificient and best voice actor of all times - the Simon *Godlike* Templeman !?!?!


  - Learn and repent, imidietely !

Not to mention playing Larry Bird. I don't think I'd better link to that show in a thread full of Loghain fans, though.

[Spankoman]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Spankoman wrote...

I wouldn't. Mistuh Loghain, he dead.

But he can be alive if certain choices are made. Having a side-story where he appears would be fine, a little treat for those of us who allowed him to survive. You know, a side-story... nothing important to the main plot or the B or C plots, just a few quests. I'd be down with that. Hell it might make our past choices matter just a little at the very least.

Oh, totally. I'm all for him showing up to say howdy to the folks who let him live. I just would not like to see his gnarly face in my game, since I kill him every time.

[Zeta42]

Regarding Loghain's actions in DA:O. I think the only reason the writers made him do stuff like selling elves to slavers from Tevinter and framing Grey Wardens for killing Cailan was to make the players hate him. Because a) smart players will understand that abandoning Cailan was the right thing to do and his Stupid Evil actions were not - in fact, how did they help Ferelden? Why did Loghain do them at all? He did want to stop the Blight, so why put a bounty on Grey Wardens? Why did he poison Eamon, a potential and powerful ally? He just needed to come up with a better tale explaining Cailan and Grey Wardens' tragic fate, maybe something like the king personally telling him to retreat if the darkspawn overwhelm them.
My point is: Bioware made Loghain a bad guy with good motivations and a sudden change of heart. Or a good guy with bad motivations. It's difficult to understand what they wanted him to be. Here's his character development:
1) A reasonable guy who desperately tries his king not to doom himself and his men to death.
2) A total ****hole.
3) If you recruit him, he's all bitter and seeks redemption. He even volunteers to slay the Archdemon, knowing that this will cost him his life, soul and afterlife. If you decide to execute him, he faces death with dignity and says he is at peace knowing that Ferelden is left in your hands.
4) And at last, he is very nice with you in Awakening and gives you some stuff he confiscated from the Grey Wardens' cache in Ferelden back when he was regent.

[Rpgfantasyplayer]

He is dead in all my plays. I just can't see past what an ***hole he is and let him live. I understand why people like him, I just can't justify what he has done enough to keep him alive. I think that if you kept him alive, sure he can be there, but if you killed him then no.

Modifié par Rpgfantasyplayer, 05 novembre 2012 - 05:22 .

[AlanC9]

Zeta42 wrote...

Because a) smart players will understand that abandoning Cailan was the right thing to do

This is silly. Cailan was following Loghain's plan, which was designed to get rid of both him and the Wardens. 

[Han Shot First]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Having that kingslayer's severed head return in my game would be quite disconcerting. 

For those who spared him however, I'd be for him returning so long as an adequate reason was given for him showing up in Orlais. At some point though Bioware has to draw the line with cameos. I wouldn't want to see every single major character we've run across at some point make a tour of Thedas, conveniently showing up in whatever location the next Dragon Age game is set.

I agree with this.

I really felt that some of the cameos in DA2 made no sense whatsoever.

An example would be Sophia Dryden, she was a fairly threatening character, and was pretty difficult to kill if you chose to take her on. Letting her go was a seriously hard choice, but it was a viable one.
I took a bit of thought and consideration over it.
And for her to pop up as little more than a random mook that Hawke slaughters in about 2 seconds flat in the wounded coast was both nonsensical, and exceedingly dissapointing.

IMO, they really pushed it with the cameos in DA2.

I agree.

As much as I like King Alistair I didn't think his cameo made a whole lot of sense. It should have been Arl Eamon or Bann Teagan who was conducting diplomacy in Kirkwall on the King's (or Queen's) behalf. Meredith also isn't Alistair's peer, even if she waa ruling Kirkwall. She isn't royal and Kirkwall is but one city in the Free Marches. Alistair rules a nation.

If Alistair ended up a drunk at the end of DA:O, I think having him show up in Kirkwall works however.

Leliana's cameo also didn't work for me in that having her working for the Divine retconned every one of her possible endings in DA:O. Her relationship status also seems to have been retconned. If the Warden was in a romance with Leliana, she speaks of the relationship in the past tense, as if the Warden is a former lover rather than a current one.

Nathaniel Howe's cameo worked I thought. He is a Warden and you run into him in the Deep Roads. That seems appropriate.

Zevran's also worked I thought, since as an assassin he has a 'job' that would keep him on the road quite often.

Bodahn and Sandal also worked in that I think they are the C3PO and R2D2 of Dragon Age. Also they're travelling merchants.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

AlanC9 wrote...

Zeta42 wrote...

Because a) smart players will understand that abandoning Cailan was the right thing to do

This is silly. Cailan was following Loghain's plan, which was designed to get rid of both him and the Wardens. 

Actually, Loghain tells Cailan to not fight in the front line and to wait. So I doubt he wanted Cailan dead........... just saying.

[samgurl775]

Kingroxas wrote...

samgurl775 wrote...

Agreed, and I want to see Queen Anora.

and King Cousland 

I just about died in DA2 when I met with Leliana and she said the Warden is "a good king". If we could just see King Cousland from a distance that would be enough for me

[Han Shot First]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Zeta42 wrote...

Because a) smart players will understand that abandoning Cailan was the right thing to do

This is silly. Cailan was following Loghain's plan, which was designed to get rid of both him and the Wardens. 

Actually, Loghain tells Cailan to not fight in the front line and to wait. So I doubt he wanted Cailan dead........... just saying.

That was just to give himself some deniability if he was accussed of being a kingslayer.

He knew his son-in-law well enough to know that wouldn't be fighting anywhere but in or near the front ranks. It is fairly evident in the game that Loghain actively plotted to arrange the king's death at Ostagar.

Howe's attack on the Couslands was also a preemptive move to eliminate the most powerful noble family in the kingdom that was likely to remain loyal to the monarchy. Even if Loghain had no role in the attack on the Couslands, (doubtful, IMO) Howe launched the attack knowing Loghain's plans regarding Calian. The only way Howe can get away with murdering the Couslands if there is a coup, and his patron is running the kingdom. Remeber, Calian fully intended to hang Howe after Ostagar. Howe would have known that would be his fate as well.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 05 novembre 2012 - 06:50 .

[Mercedes-Benz]

Me too.

[JimTasty]

bump