17 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

 Just a thought that passed me recently. I'm one of those types of people that get a kick out of games or quests that deal with investigation, mystery, gathering clues and the sort. When Leviathan came out I was particularly fasinated with that aspect of investigating and piecing stuff together.

Now, I'm not suggesting that DA3 should become a Heavy Rain in a fantasy universe, but I think it would be cool if there are quests in DA3 (either main or side quests) that deal with trying to find clues and has that aura of mystery surrounding it. It doesn't have to be some type of cliche murder-mystery type of quest (though if its done right it can still be a lot of fun). 

Thoughts?

[Emzamination]

Do the clues have obvious map markers? If so - yes and if not - no.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I wonder if the rubble of Thedosian bomb attacks can be searched for signatures? Sniff to determine the type of explosive, or if you're a mage just feel around to see if there's lyrium. Or maybe search for pieces of a container in the rubble and see if anything shows up that narrows it down. (The bomb is often cased in something inconspicous looking in case people look, or as a form of bait if the bomber knows how to rig it to explode when opened.)

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 04 novembre 2012 - 11:49 .

[Kahpya]

Well since it's in Orlais, it would be nice with some court intrigue. where as the PC could find either friends or enemies.
Maybe find out who was plotting against who, use that information to do some form of diplomatic damage or what not.
So to sum up finding clues about different people of the court, by sneaking in there houses to find documents and plot together little by little who is in allegiance with who..

maybe some thing like that ?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

nikihap wrote...

Well since it's in Orlais, it would be nice with some court intrigue. where as the PC could find either friends or enemies.
Maybe find out who was plotting against who, use that information to do some form of diplomatic damage or what not.
So to sum up finding clues about different people of the court, by sneaking in there houses to find documents and plot together little by little who is in allegiance with who..

maybe some thing like that ?

My impression is that we go all over, not just to Orlais. Other than that, I second everything you said.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

nikihap wrote...

Well since it's in Orlais, it would be nice with some court intrigue. where as the PC could find either friends or enemies.
Maybe find out who was plotting against who, use that information to do some form of diplomatic damage or what not.
So to sum up finding clues about different people of the court, by sneaking in there houses to find documents and plot together little by little who is in allegiance with who..

maybe some thing like that ?

My impression is that we go all over, not just to Orlais. Other than that, I second everything you said.

Same here. It doesn't have to be in one place. Like maybe the person or thing you are looking for has been mobile and you have to track it down?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Such things as you describe are rather difficult in the absence of teleportation and advanced transportation technology, but I think I remember reading that there is at least one Thedas-wide conspiracy that will become a major part of the game.

Edit: Or did you mean on an inter-city or inter-region scale rather than jumping borders?

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 05 novembre 2012 - 12:33 .

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Such things as you describe are rather difficult in the absence of teleportation and advanced transportation technology, but I think I remember reading that there is at least one Thedas-wide conspiracy that will become a major part of the game.

Edit: Or did you mean on an inter-city or inter-region scale rather than jumping borders?

Well...there is fast travel. Lol. But I was thinking that if this was to be a like a major quest of some sort it wouldn't necessarily be confined in one city, unless the quest primarily deals with that particular city.

[PsychoBlonde]

 I'd like to have these kinds of quests, too, but I will say that hiding things when you can hit Tab to highlight all interactive environment objects and when there's a clearly labeled "Investigate" option on the conversation wheel is probably pretty difficult.  To have a proper aura of mystery, things need to be hidden from the PLAYER as well as the PC, and if you've designed your game in such a way as to make everything as accessible as possible, this becomes really problematic.

That's not to say it's impossible, but making it work would probably require some changes in design philosophy.

One thing they could do would be to actually take advantage of the whole tab thing by, say, having parts of levels that are visible from but not physically connected to other parts of the level, so yeah, you can SEE that there's something over there, but GETTING there is going to take a lot of wandering around other maps and figuring out how the areas connect.  That's one option.

Another option could be to make it so you get information from overhearing conversations (so you can't ask questions), by finding cryptic notes that you have to line up with other information: "he said, meet me at the tower", well, no explanation there for who "he" is, so you'd have to do some asking around to find out who was missing at that time, stuff like that.  This would work best if the place is full of red herrings and Investigate options that are suspicious-sounding but actually completely irrelevant.  Again, take advantage of what the player can do by giving them TOO MUCH information in a format that makes it seem like it must be relevant, because everybody KNOWS that ANYTHING the GM sees fit to tell you MUST be important, right? 

The REAL trick would be to maintain the mystery and the searching around while NOT completely circumventing the usual operation of the game.  Also, preferably, by not just making all the NPCs involved utter crazy gibberish and be unable to answer questions.  You should still be able to tab-highlight interactables and use Investigate options with sane people who can (and will) answer your questions.

Pulling that off would be an accomplishment.  And also pretty dang fun!

Modifié par PsychoBlonde, 05 novembre 2012 - 04:06 .

[JWvonGoethe]

Replayability might be a problem here - The Fade puzzle in The Circle in DA:O was a pain to replay again once you've already figured it out in the first playthrough, hence the popularity of the Skip The Fade mod on PC. Of course, that's fine you are not too concerned about replayability, or if you don't find it tiresome to replay these types of games.

That being said, if there were to be mystery elements of DA3 then I'd like to see different ways to solve each mystery, leading to different outcomes, where each path sheds new light on hidden goings-on that you can't uncover on a single playthrough. Finding out only on your second playthrough that you let the real villain get away with it the first time round would be the kind of thing I'd like to see here.

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 05 novembre 2012 - 04:56 .

[Battlebloodmage]

If it's anything like ME3 scanning, I would be shooting myself 10 seconds into the game.

[BellPeppers&Beef023]

If they can do it proper, why not. This means NO map markers. Let the player him/herself get creative here in solving the mystery. If its an actual crime scene mystery quest thing, then include a fail state ie. wrongly accusing someone, real culprit gets away etc.

[Rixatrix]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

nikihap wrote...

Well since it's in Orlais, it would be nice with some court intrigue. where as the PC could find either friends or enemies.
Maybe find out who was plotting against who, use that information to do some form of diplomatic damage or what not.
So to sum up finding clues about different people of the court, by sneaking in there houses to find documents and plot together little by little who is in allegiance with who..

maybe some thing like that ?

My impression is that we go all over, not just to Orlais. Other than that, I second everything you said.

Same here. It doesn't have to be in one place. Like maybe the person or thing you are looking for has been mobile and you have to track it down?

I definitely would love some quests/missions with intrigue resolutions as an option.  Some of my favorite BW quests have been ones that throw the typical "kill this guy in a party battle to achieve this objective" formula out the window.  Some quests I would like offering unique resolution options:

• find evidence by sneaking in somewhere undetected (like break into a chateau and steal some letters to prove an affair in order to gain support of the victim and/or turn him/her against their two-timing lover!);
• follow someone somewhere (for example, follow a member of a secret society to gain access);
• use/participate in/invent gossip that suits your purposes (like turning one enemy against another);
• discovering/using dangerous liaisons for influence/power/resources/manipulation;
• blackmail (something like... using proof of a noble lady murdering her husband to inherit his estate in order for her to give you acess to her resources or convince a connection of hers to help you/take out an enemy/let you be);
• intercept and change letters/messages.... and more.

[Foolsfolly]

ithurtz wrote...

If they can do it proper, why not. This means NO map markers. Let the player him/herself get creative here in solving the mystery. If its an actual crime scene mystery quest thing, then include a fail state ie. wrongly accusing someone, real culprit gets away etc.

I agree that that's how I'd want to do it. But.... that sounds labor intensive. And perhaps the devs should be doing other things like getting the game running.

But if they had the time. Sure. Why not? I'd love a big investigating set-piece in the middle of the game. If it's done well enough people will talk about it for years. Like that one Dark Brotherhood quest in Oblivion which was the single best quest in the entire game.

[Foolsfolly]

JWvonGoethe wrote...

Replayability might be a problem here - The Fade puzzle in The Circle in DA:O was a pain to replay again once you've already figured it out in the first playthrough, hence the popularity of the Skip The Fade mod on PC. Of course, that's fine you are not too concerned about replayability, or if you don't find it tiresome to replay these types of games.

That being said, if there were to be mystery elements of DA3 then I'd like to see different ways to solve each mystery, leading to different outcomes, where each path sheds new light on hidden goings-on that you can't uncover on a single playthrough. Finding out only on your second playthrough that you let the real villain get away with it the first time round would be the kind of thing I'd like to see here.

....I wonder how much investigating the game will actually allow. And I wonder how wise it is to even wonder about that right now. How many disappointed posters are being born right now by thinking the game will be more than just a "And then we fight many people in many battles" game instead of... what L.A. Noir mixed with Alpha Protocol.

...I would play the **** out of an LA Noir/Alpha Protocol game. In fact throwing some role-playing into LA Noir would have made that a much better game. Instead it's neigh impossible to replay.

[BellPeppers&Beef023]

Foolsfolly wrote...

ithurtz wrote...

If they can do it proper, why not. This means NO map markers. Let the player him/herself get creative here in solving the mystery. If its an actual crime scene mystery quest thing, then include a fail state ie. wrongly accusing someone, real culprit gets away etc.

I agree that that's how I'd want to do it. But.... that sounds labor intensive. And perhaps the devs should be doing other things like getting the game running.

But if they had the time. Sure. Why not? I'd love a big investigating set-piece in the middle of the game. If it's done well enough people will talk about it for years. Like that one Dark Brotherhood quest in Oblivion which was the single best quest in the entire game.

Yup. I mean this entire premise is optional in the first place. don't think many pple will cry foul if such a quest is absent in the game.

That Skinner quest in BG2 comes to mind. Rather linear, but still reasonably well done with a few variances here and there.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

If it's anything like ME3 scanning, I would be shooting myself 10 seconds into the game.

No no, not scanning. Have you played Leviathan? Dr. Bryson's lab? I really like that concept of finding and piecing information together to discover things. 

[JWvonGoethe]

Foolsfolly wrote...

....I wonder how much investigating the game will actually allow. And I wonder how wise it is to even wonder about that right now. How many disappointed posters are being born right now by thinking the game will be more than just a "And then we fight many people in many battles" game instead of... what L.A. Noir mixed with Alpha Protocol.

...I would play the **** out of an LA Noir/Alpha Protocol game. In fact throwing some role-playing into LA Noir would have made that a much better game. Instead it's neigh impossible to replay.

I completely agree with you about LA Noire - good game absolutely zero replay value. Combining it like you say with Alpha Protocol style roleplaying elements would have made it twice the game it was.

There was something in the leaked survey about espionage/investigative elements being in DA3. I think there's little doubt the survey was official, but already some of it, like the stated number of companions, has been discredited. If the espionage part was indeed true, however, then LA Noire/Alpha Protocol in a fantasy setting would be beyond great. I don't think I really expect it to happen, but maybe Bioware have some interesting plans here.