91 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Steelcan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OP:
I think people bought into the "Lovecraftian horror" aspect of the Reapers and thought the story would reinforce the idea that there are things we aren't meant to know and that all we can do when the "other" comes knocking at our door is to destroy it.

I'm glad that didn't come to pass. Revealing the Reapers' motivations was one of the core elements I needed in the ending. Without it, the ME trilogy wouldn't be a story I care for in the end.

. Could have been a better explanation though.

Yeah, it could. Even the same explanation we got would've done much better were it better grounded in what came before.

[Steelcan]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
@OP:
I think people bought into the "Lovecraftian horror" aspect of the Reapers and thought the story would reinforce the idea that there are things we aren't meant to know and that all we can do when the "other" comes knocking at our door is to destroy it.
I'm glad that didn't come to pass. Revealing the Reapers' motivations was one of the core elements I needed in the ending. Without it, the ME trilogy wouldn't be a story I care for in the end.

. Could have been a better explanation though.

Yeah, it could. Even the same explanation we got would've done much better were it better grounded in what came before.

. But no, we get Starbrat and his bullsh*t.  Fortunately I can reject the Catalyst's logic and destroy the reapers without a second thought.

[NoUserNameHere]

Remember when they were just melting us down as genetic paste for reproduction? Good times.

[eddieoctane]

NoUserNameHere wrote...

Remember when they were just melting us down as genetic paste for reproduction? Good times.

You mean the begining of the end for their mystique?

[Nerevar-as]

NoUserNameHere wrote...

Remember when they were just melting us down as genetic paste for reproduction? Good times.

I was expecting them to be a race´s idea of perfect evolution, rising those they deemed worthy to it and eliminating those who weren´t to make way for new candidates. Instead we had an AI programmed by some idiot and an attempt to pass genocide as the right thing to do.

[Armass81]

What it boiled down in the end was that basically a race of Cthulhus created a Skynet to stop other species from making Skynets.

Well done boys... clap clap

Modifié par Armass81, 05 novembre 2012 - 03:44 .

[JamieCOTC]

Nerevar-as wrote...


I was expecting them to be a
race´s idea of perfect evolution, rising those they deemed worthy to it
and eliminating those who weren´t to make way for new candidates.

That's what I was expecting too. 

Nerevar-as wrote...
 Instead we had an AI programmed by some idiot and an attempt to pass genocide as the right thing to do.

Pretty much.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 05 novembre 2012 - 03:47 .

[Ieldra]

NoUserNameHere wrote...
Remember when they were just melting us down as genetic paste for reproduction? Good times.

They never were. The Reapers' nature was revealed in ME2, in rare circumstances: a post-SM dialogue with Legion, if you got the "Dyson sphere" dialogue before the SM. The "genetic paste for reproduction" was always a red herring.

[MegaSovereign]

What I would have done is removed the Catalyst chamber scene but kept the Leviathan content as is.

The Leviathan content reveals the motivations and origins of the Reapers but without going into too much detail that might detract from the Reapers' mystique.

[Armass81]

MegaSovereign wrote...

What I would have done is removed the Catalyst chamber scene but kept the Leviathan content as is.

The Leviathan content reveals the motivations and origins of the Reapers but without going into too much detail that might detract from the Reapers' mystique.

Then we would be wondering where the intelligence is that leviathan mentions, and why we never met it?

[Jadebaby]

General Slotts wrote...

The mystery surrounding them is what I found most interesting.

Also, I have a theory on this.

If you build something up. Whether it be an enemy or protector or whatever. If you build that entity up to become something so grand that they are seen as God-like beings...

Then you have to realise that any explanation to their motives is going to diminish their presense and God-like status.

Gods don't need motivations.

And not only did they explain there motivations. But so far... It seems like they've done a terrible job of it.

[Armass81]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

General Slotts wrote...

The mystery surrounding them is what I found most interesting.

Also, I have a theory on this.

If you build something up. Whether it be an enemy or protector or whatever. If you build that entity up to become something so grand that they are seen as God-like beings...

Then you have to realise that any explanation to their motives is going to diminish their presense and God-like status.

Gods don't need motivations.

And not only did they explain there motivations. But so far... It seems like they've done a terrible job of it.

Theyre far from Gods if you can destroy them...

What made Lovecrafts old ones, that the reapers are sometimes compared to, so terrifying was not only that they were unknown horrors, but that they were in essence unbeatable. Humanity was nothing to them. Protagonists usually met with unfortunate ends in his stories, either dying or becoming completely insane. Only mercy given to humans was their ignorance of those things that lurked beyond and of their inevitable destruction in the future when the old ones would return.

If you can kill them, that alone takes alot away.

And so however it ended, the reapers would have beem diminished, because it was always about stopping them. Unless of course you end the game with the realisation that they cant be stopped, ever. How would you have liked that?

Also if they are machines, it means someone created them, sometime, for some purpose. Their motives thus are unlikely to be "beyond our comprehension".

Thus the reapers are hyper advanced, horrible machines that destroy whole civilizations, yes. But they are NOT true eldritch abominations. Never were.

Modifié par Armass81, 05 novembre 2012 - 04:58 .

[AlexMBrennan]

I'm wondering why some think that it's a good idea to not give the Reapers an underlying motivation. Wouldn't that simply turn them into a plot device

You fail at reading comprehension: There is a difference between not giving the Reapers a motivation (your quote), and not revealing it to the player (your thread title).

Regardless, the answer is obvious: If you can only come up with retarded explanations, it's better to leave it unanswered than to give a retarded answer.

[Binary_Helix 1]

The worst part of the Dark Knight Rises was the Bane/Talia origin. Oh how I rolled my eyes at that drivel. Whenever I bring that up the reaction is "well Joker had a cool motive/origin", actually no he didn't. His origin was never revealed and his motive was a fancy way of saying I like being bad but throw in a few cool phrases suddenly it was "mind blowing". In a way it was no different than Sovereign and worked very well nonetheless unlike Bane/Talia and the Catalyst. Some mystery = good.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 05 novembre 2012 - 05:42 .

[Nerevar-as]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

The worst part of the Dark Knight Rises was the Bane/Talia origin. Oh how I rolled my eyes at that drivel. Whenever I bring that up the reaction is "well Joker had a cool motive/origin", actually no he didn't. His origin was never revealed and his motive was a fancy way of saying I like being bad but throw in a few cool phrases suddenly it was "mind blowing". In a way it was no different than Sovereign and worked very well nonetheless unlike Bane/Talia and the Catalyst. Mystery is good.

Well, Talia was Ras´ daughter because that´s who she is in the comics. Was a bit sad they went with full villain whereas in the comics and TAS she had conflicted loyalties. I think the Joker´s multiple choice past was Alan Moore´s writing, which is light years beyond Walters´s reach.

[sharkboy421]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

The worst part of the Dark Knight Rises was the Bane/Talia origin. Oh how I rolled my eyes at that drivel. Whenever I bring that up the reaction is "well Joker had a cool motive/origin", actually no he didn't. His origin was never revealed and his motive was a fancy way of saying I like being bad but throw in a few cool phrases suddenly it was "mind blowing". In a way it was no different than Sovereign and worked very well nonetheless unlike Bane/Talia and the Catalyst. Some mystery = good.

This is one of the reasons why I loved Joker in The Dark Knight and the Reaper's before the catalyst.  Joker simply was.  He had no rhyme or reason beyond he was doing what he did and enjoyed it.  And for me it didn't diminish his character at all, I actually liked him more.  It can certainly be interesting and engaging to learn more about your enemy and understand why he does what he does.  Darth Vader comes to mind as a "bad guy" who was actually a "good guy" but was twisted and perverted before eventually redeeming himself.

But sometimes I want an enemy whose motivation I cannot understand.  Be it Joker or the Reapers or whoever, I find it enjoyable at times to fight against an enemy "who just wants to watch the world burn."

[Headcount]

I find it very ironic that with the original ending, the writers took the speculations for everyone route. What happened to my character, my crew, the relays, the fleet and the Earth… Figure it out for yourselves! The Reapers motivations? This kid AI is running the show and he’s killing organics so you won’t be killed by synthetics. 

[grey_wind]

Because we already had plenty of hints to their motivation from ME2: procreation, and some twisted ideal that this was some form of ascenison for organics.

It was simple, and it revealed enough for us to speculate and guess at what they wanted but still kept their aura of mystery intact and left their ultimate goal as "beyond our comprehension".

[Seboist]

Mystery > Motivation that makes the plot from Plan 9 from Outer Space look sensible.

[KingZayd]

because an unknown motivation is better than a nonsensical one.

[Fawx9]

Because not every bad guy needs to have a sob story so that we can understand them.

It's like asking why a ghost/demon posses someone in a horror story. They do it because they can. The characters don't need to understand why(unless its linked to their survival), they either need to stop it or escape.

'Understanding' the Reapers in ME3 was pointless for our survival and only cheapened them in my eyes.

[Dr_Extrem]

well .. they were harvesting us - i could go with it.

the moment i heard, that the reapers were harvesting us, because an ancient ai wants to protect us from our own creations, my first thought was: "what did he smoke?"

some things are better left alone - especially the motivations of the reapers. i dont have to know everything ... in "war of the worlds" we did not know anything about the aliens in the first place - only, that they died because of bacteria.

[Robhuzz]

NoUserNameHere wrote...

Remember when they were just melting us down as genetic paste for reproduction? Good times.

Aye, I loved the idea that Harbinger seemed to think they were doing us a favour by letting us ascend. The organic races didn't want that but they're just maggots, what do they know? They should feel honored.

Was it so difficult to use the Sten explanation instead? "They wish us dead, and we wish to keep on living. The point of our war is war."

And then they turned the reapers into simple tools. Great...<_<

[Deemz]

Well if the best we can get is "They kill you because they want to help you" then I would have prefered they kept their motivations a secret.