817 réponses à ce sujet

[ledod]

Upon delving into the Dragon Age universe, one almost immediately encounters the following dictom of the Chantry:
"Magic is meant to serve man, not to rule over him". (Or something very close in meaning)

Despite serving as the cardinal dogma of the Chantry, I fail to see any instance were the Chantry employs magic to improve the welfare of the common man. Instead, one sees the subjugation of mages, and the complete ostracization of magic from society at large.

Given that the theme of DA: I centers around the conflict between the chantry, and Circle Magi, are we, players, going to observe the Chantry's constuctive use of magic?

For example, I am suprised that there is no inclusion of healer-magi within the clergy. Additionally, one could entertain the notion that magic could help aid in agricultural blights, purification of water sources...?

QUESTION: Does anyone know when/where the Chantry provisions magi to disburden the plights of humanity?

Modifié par ledod, 05 novembre 2012 - 11:01 .

[ledod]

double post. Sorry

Modifié par ledod, 05 novembre 2012 - 11:00 .

[Maria Caliban]

1) The Chantry doesn't employ mages to serve man because technically speaking, the Chantry doesn't employ mages. The Templars are part of the Chantry but the Circles are not.

2) Most of the enchanted doo-dads and such come from the Circles. It's their main form of revenue and I'd say that creating magical things is a service to mankind. Likewise, we know that mages are used to defend many countries. We also know that Circle mages are used to heal illnesses.

[esper]

By 'serve man' they chantry very clearly mean locked away in the Circle unless we declare an exhalted march or an individual have shown exeptionel promise.

Healers aren't allowed outside the circle because they are primarly spirits healers (creation three can only do so much) which means that they are summoning spirits.

There is a reason that Duncan had to beg to even get seven mages against a blight, you know.

[ledod]

Maria Caliban wrote...

1) The Chantry doesn't employ mages to serve man because technically speaking, the Chantry doesn't employ mages. The Templars are part of the Chantry but the Circles are not.

That's what suprises me; one would assume that the Chantry would try to foster positive magic culture by accepting like-minded mages into their ranks. What better way to police magic than to stem the poliferation of malificar than through Chantry-recognized mages?

[ledod]

Out of curiosity, there was a codex that suggested that Andraste alledgedly was a mage herself. Anyone know the validity of the codex's claim? Perhaps pro-mage persons may find such evidence in their best interest? (Magic cannot better serve man than to betroth one to the Maker )

Modifié par ledod, 05 novembre 2012 - 11:15 .

[Wulfram]

Mages serve man by stopping them from being conquered by Blights and Qunari, mostly.

[DarthLaxian]

indeed, they serve (the chantry) because i am sure this bloated corupt and oppressive church surely gets huge benefits from the mage sales of magical items (runes and other "gadgets")

so, yes they serve the chantry and are oppressed like slaves in a gilded cage!

greetings LAX

[Mystch3vi0us]

Really? Do we need another pro mage thread. I'm getting tired of all the whining about how mages should be treated better.

The chantry is not at fault for the horrible state of affairs between the templars and the mages. In point of fact before the chantry came along the inquisition didn't have circles, they just killed mages. Now why would they do that you ask, your bleeding heart about as obvious as a 1 legged man in an butt kicking contest. Because, even the best intentioned of mages is subject to demonic possession and the worst mages summon flipping demons and mind control everyone. Hell if you side with the mages in DA:2 they all still start doing blood magic including the head of the circle.

The templars each with a story about how some ****** mage (only takes a few jerks with a bomb to ruin it for the lot eh?) did in this family, that town, or even that group of templars react harshly because they are frustrated, afraid (and justly so. A loaded gun held by a 7 year old is still a loaded gun), and angry so a few templars abuse the ever loving crap out of their power. Sometimes the mage deserves it sometimes they don't. It's not about fairness, people are flawed. I'd say and the cycle continues but that's not the end of it.

These templars are then policed by another group called the seekers of truth who though super small in number are elite bad**s' who "straighten things out." This should smooth things out except then another group of mages fly off the handle so that otherwise, more so than the other, even tempered templars fly off the handle and so on and so on.

So why not just let the mages be free and get rid of this broken system? *(I groan as I try to restrain myself from smiting you.)* Because, as I said before humans are flawed. If one regular person goes nutts we're looking at maximum body count of twenty people. If a mage goes nutters we get either a host of demons that can, and will whether or not it's what the mage intended, destroy entire towns. Or maybe he becomes possessed. We already saw what an abomination can subjugate an entire tower of trained mages what's to stop him from doing worse to the general population, or the nobility?

Is there an easy answer? No but the answer sure as heck isn't let the mages run free.

Oh yeah on another fun fact note. Templars are not city guards. You don't just sign up at your local town hall and serve your time and leave. Templars are highly trained lyrium addicts. It takes a fair amount of time to train them, (and even Alister failed out. {don't ask me how Cullen made it.} andTemplars have a retirement plan about as good as the grey wardens. Argh. to frustrated to keep going.

[General User]

The best service a mage could provide for humanity was to become disciplined and judicious in the use of their powers. The job of the Chantry and the Circles was to make sure mages did just that. And, failing that, to remove the threat posed by mages who could not do so.

[Heimdall]

ledod wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

1) The Chantry doesn't employ mages to serve man because technically speaking, the Chantry doesn't employ mages. The Templars are part of the Chantry but the Circles are not.

That's what suprises me; one would assume that the Chantry would try to foster positive magic culture by accepting like-minded mages into their ranks. What better way to police magic than to stem the poliferation of malificar than through Chantry-recognized mages?

Recall that when that diction came in to being, most people's impression's of mages came from the Tervinter magister's cruelty and excess.  The chantry interpreted it to mean that mages should be barred from positions of authority, thus leading them to subservient roles in courts and armies.  The Chantry doesn't force mages to serve them direcly, usually, but they mould the world so that a Mage has little choice but to serve.

[SeptimusMagistos]

General User wrote...

The best service a mage could provide for humanity was to become disciplined and judicious in the use of their powers. The job of the Chantry and the Circles was to make sure mages did just that. And, failing that, to remove the threat posed by mages who could not do so.

Problem is, under the current system even if they do that it gains them nothing. You're trying to run an entire system based solely on fear and making sure even after the mages prove themselves they aren't able to benefit society and reap the benefits of their work.

[hitenchi]

While i do tend to be pro-mage, i must say i do agree that mages are extremely dangerous people, however, someone who controls armies and the lives of many can be considered more dangerous. Also the elves seem to be able to live fine with their mages without much problem, and even blood magic to an extent. However i do agree that the circles should exist and that their blood should be taken, and they should be under the watch of chantry in city, they should have less restrictions then they currently do. Also the circle is only a semi - independent orginization.

[ledod]

Mystch3vi0us wrote...

Really? Do we need another pro mage thread. I'm getting tired of all the whining about how mages should be treated better.

The chantry is not at fault for the horrible state of affairs between the templars and the mages. In point of fact before the chantry came along the inquisition didn't have circles, they just killed mages. Now why would they do that you ask, your bleeding heart about as obvious as a 1 legged man in an butt kicking contest. Because, even the best intentioned of mages is subject to demonic possession and the worst mages summon flipping demons and mind control everyone. Hell if you side with the mages in DA:2 they all still start doing blood magic including the head of the circle.

The templars each with a story about how some ****** mage (only takes a few jerks with a bomb to ruin it for the lot eh?) did in this family, that town, or even that group of templars react harshly because they are frustrated, afraid (and justly so. A loaded gun held by a 7 year old is still a loaded gun), and angry so a few templars abuse the ever loving crap out of their power. Sometimes the mage deserves it sometimes they don't. It's not about fairness, people are flawed. I'd say and the cycle continues but that's not the end of it.

These templars are then policed by another group called the seekers of truth who though super small in number are elite bad**s' who "straighten things out." This should smooth things out except then another group of mages fly off the handle so that otherwise, more so than the other, even tempered templars fly off the handle and so on and so on.

So why not just let the mages be free and get rid of this broken system? *(I groan as I try to restrain myself from smiting you.)* Because, as I said before humans are flawed. If one regular person goes nutts we're looking at maximum body count of twenty people. If a mage goes nutters we get either a host of demons that can, and will whether or not it's what the mage intended, destroy entire towns. Or maybe he becomes possessed. We already saw what an abomination can subjugate an entire tower of trained mages what's to stop him from doing worse to the general population, or the nobility?

Is there an easy answer? No but the answer sure as heck isn't let the mages run free.

Oh yeah on another fun fact note. Templars are not city guards. You don't just sign up at your local town hall and serve your time and leave. Templars are highly trained lyrium addicts. It takes a fair amount of time to train them, (and even Alister failed out. {don't ask me how Cullen made it.} andTemplars have a retirement plan about as good as the grey wardens. Argh. to frustrated to keep going.

My friend, I appreciate your contribution to the topic, but my intention was to argue 'pro-mage'. Rather, I sought an answer as to why the Chantry does not use magi as a powerful tool for good. Various posters pointed out that mages are used for profit.

I still, however, want to believe that their are true Chantry members that adhere to the teachings of Andraste. There must be SOMEBODY that believe mages have more utility than as toymakers.

Admittedly, the organization of the circle confuses me- it is not a part of the Chantry, but Templar are required to police the mages in the circle?

[Palipride47]

ANOTHER thread?

I'm not even concerned about who's right, I'm just concerned about the sanity of those who keep making these threads.

[Face of Evil]

Magic exists to serve the darkspawn and the Old Gods who rule over them. Blessed and holy are they who taken the Archdemon's gift and used it against the Maker's children. They shall be named Emissaries, the Blighted ones. Mankind shall find no mercy in this world or beyond.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 06 novembre 2012 - 03:09 .

[ledod]

Palipride47 wrote...

ANOTHER thread?

I'm not even concerned about who's right, I'm just concerned about the sanity of those who keep making these threads.

alrighty, thank you

[xsdob]

The chantry, the circles, and the kingdoms are very old systems, which means more than likely they've all become perverted corrupt mockeries of the institutions they once were.

I see it like the transformation in animal farm from "All animals are equal" to "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

It happens with time, all things become corrupt. What both could use is a good old fashion purge, and I think the inquisition should be the ones to do it.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Palipride47 wrote...

ANOTHER thread?

I'm not even concerned about who's right, I'm just concerned about the sanity of those who keep making these threads.

LOL.  

I do have to applaud the writers for their meta-achievement in producing a real-life split between mage and templar supporters, some of whom are fervent enough in their opinions to make Meredith and Anders proud.

Personally, I just want the mages and templars to shut up, sit down with a nice cup of tea, and stop killing everyone 

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 06 novembre 2012 - 06:58 .

[n7stormrunner]

yes someone sit them down with some nice tea and have them talk things out if they fail to find a answer they should forget to give them the cure for the poison in the tea...

[esper]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Spirit Healer is a specialty class for the games. Wynne was unique. In Origins, the only reason other characters were allowed to take the specialization is gameplay.Towers are not filled with Spirit-Possessed healers so I dunno what the OP is talking about.

Second, as I sit here thinking about it, as best I can recall the OP is right that the Chantry themselves do not use mages. BUT . . . they give so many different permissions allowing mages to serve the populous (mostly nobility) that it waters the entire topic down to the point that I do not think it's a good thread.

Looked good on paper, not so much in practice.

Spirit healer works getting aid from spirits. True most don't go as far as Wynne and Anders, but they are looked on with supicion because of their working together with Fade creatures.

[The Elder King]

esper wrote...


Spirit healer works getting aid from spirits. True most don't go as far as Wynne and Anders, but they are looked on with supicion because of their working together with Fade creatures.

People in Lowtown didn't look at Anders with suspect, or if they did their doubts faded when they saw how much he could help them.

General User wrote...

The best service a mage could
provide for humanity was to become disciplined and judicious in the use
of their powers. The job of the Chantry and the Circles was to make
sure mages did just that. And, failing that, to remove the threat posed
by mages who could not do so.

I disagree. The Chantry already used mages to stop the qunari invasion or the Blight. Mages could help common people greatly.
Plus, you're forgetting that mages help nobles when they're seriously ill. Of course, in this case the ill person have both political power and enough money to pay.