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GodWood wrote...
Again, loaded words that don't in any shape or form represent reality are being used.It is a cage
General User wrote...
That wouldn't work. Magic is too extreme a factor. It's misuse cannot be prevented through roughly the same methods used to teach children table manners or prevent them from using curse words.
Out in the wide open of Thedas, the incentives to misuse magic would simply be too powerful and pervasive. All mages must be monitored constantly throughout their lives to insure (for their own good and for everyone else's) that they stay on the straight and narrow, and the most practical and humane way to do that is to consign them to Circles.
Medhia Nox wrote...
@Auintus:
I did write demonology - I should have written demon summoning.
Studying to survive the Harrowing alone should allow for a lot of room in how to counter demon influence - so I certainly agree with studying the demons, the Fade and spirits.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
The molding never stops.
You never will be the only influence on them if you let them into the world. Contact with others and the realities of the world will mold them differently than you want.
Your solution does not work. You will never get the "perfect mages" you think of.
The thing is that the offenders in your examples had a choice to commit those crimes in contrast to every mage potentially being worn like a meat suit against their will by some carnivorous entity that enjoy's destruction, and misery.thibaut72 wrote...
For the 70 death that a mage did, do you read the post in which i told that firearm (because some relate magic to firearm) can do the same as magic ? In danmark, Breivik killed 69 commoners in less than one day, and he is still alive !
You don't need magic do be dangerous, and if you are lucky or use the right tool, you can even erase a city without knowing magic (blackpowder courtesy quest, and the saar-qamek for exemple)
The Hierophant wrote...
The thing is that the offenders in your examples had a choice to commit those crimes in contrast to every mage potentially being worn like a meat suit against their will by some carnivorous entity that enjoy's destruction, and misery.
Modifié par Auintus, 09 novembre 2012 - 11:16 .
Nothing of what you said changes the fact that every mage is a conduit/gateway to the fade making them all potential prey for demons regardless if they passed the Harrowing or not. When you have people like that scattered all over the country side or in densely populated areas instead pre determined locations it would take longer for the authorities to stop the destruction during the former as there is no horses in Thedas whatsoever, and the potential death toll increases in the later.Auintus wrote...
The Hierophant wrote...
The thing is that the offenders in your examples had a choice to commit those crimes in contrast to every mage potentially being worn like a meat suit against their will by some carnivorous entity that enjoy's destruction, and misery.
It sounds like you think that every free mage will become an abomination. The Circle doesn't protect against demons, so mages can still be contacted. They are no safer in the Circle than out, except outside the Circle they have one less reason to take the deal.
Modifié par The Hierophant, 09 novembre 2012 - 11:32 .
Auintus wrote...
It sounds like you think that every free mage will become an abomination. The Circle doesn't protect against demons, so mages can still be contacted. They are no safer in the Circle than out, except outside the Circle they have one less reason to take the deal.The Hierophant wrote...
The thing is that the offenders in your examples had a choice to commit those crimes in contrast to every mage potentially being worn like a meat suit against their will by some carnivorous entity that enjoy's destruction, and misery.
Modifié par thibaut72, 09 novembre 2012 - 11:48 .
thibaut72 wrote...
Auintus wrote...
It sounds like you think that every free mage will become an abomination. The Circle doesn't protect against demons, so mages can still be contacted. They are no safer in the Circle than out, except outside the Circle they have one less reason to take the deal.The Hierophant wrote...
The thing is that the offenders in your examples had a choice to commit those crimes in contrast to every mage potentially being worn like a meat suit against their will by some carnivorous entity that enjoy's destruction, and misery.
As far as i can remember, and with all my games in DAO and DA2, i can't find (maybe i m wrong) a unwilling possession (even Connor or mage in DA2). And spirit of the fade are the reflect of the mind of humanity and can be found more often when this humanity think about war.
Demons can also be found without mages (Sebastian quest, Warden's keep, Gaxkang...)
@ the hierophant, the fear about let the mage go in every city won't stop the escape of some mage from circle and can do everything they want in every city/village where templar are not present. If you post templar in every city/village, you can allow this to happen and minimize the risk (and i think even less than now) of possession/rise of abomination. Less stress result less temptation...
And for mages who still want to live in circles, circles always remain active with templar present too.
The Hierophant wrote...
Nothing of what you said changes the fact that every mage is a conduit/gateway to the fade making them all potential prey for demons regardless if they passed the Harrowing or not. When you have people like that scattered all over the country side or in densely populated areas instead pre determined locations it would take longer for the authorities to stop the destruction during the former as there is no horses in Thedas whatsoever, and the potential death toll increases in the later.
Don't forget how Thrask's daughter was easily possessed from losing her cool, Meredith's sister, Grace was possessed, Uldred was overpowered by the Pride demon despite him thinking he can control it, Feynriel was trapped and needed help, Merril fell for Wryme's shenanigans, Marethari being Marethari, Anders losing control of Justice, Avernus sundering the veil at soldiers keep. Plus the only ways a demon/spirit could enter Thedas is from the veil being sundered by an extreme amount death, and a mage directly or indirectly doing so.thibaut72 wrote...
As far as i can remember, and with all my games in DAO and DA2, i can't find (maybe i m wrong) a unwilling possession (even Connor or mage in DA2). And spirit of the fade are the reflect of the mind of humanity and can be found more often when this humanity think about war.
Demons can also be found without mages (Sebastian quest, Warden's keep, Gaxkang...)
@ the hierophant, the fear about let the mage go in every city won't stop the escape of some mage from circle and can do everything they want in every city/village where templar are not present. If you post templar in every city/village, you can allow this to happen and minimize the risk (and i think even less than now) of possession/rise of abomination. Less stress result less temptation...
Modifié par The Hierophant, 10 novembre 2012 - 12:11 .
Auintus wrote...
The Hierophant wrote...
Nothing of what you said changes the fact that every mage is a conduit/gateway to the fade making them all potential prey for demons regardless if they passed the Harrowing or not. When you have people like that scattered all over the country side or in densely populated areas instead pre determined locations it would take longer for the authorities to stop the destruction during the former as there is no horses in Thedas whatsoever, and the potential death toll increases in the later.
I never said that it did. But abominations result from mages dealing with demons, with fewer reasons to do so, you have fewer abominations, in addition to more templars who don't have to watch good mages and can instead focus on defending local populations from maleficar and abominations.
The Hierophant wrote...
there is no horses in Thedas whatsoever, and the potential death toll increases in the later.
The Hierophant wrote...
Don't forget how Thrask's daughter was easily possessed from losing her cool, Meredith's sister, Grace was possessed, Uldred was overpowered by the Pride demon despite him thinking he can control it, Feynriel was trapped and needed help, Merril fell for Wryme's shenanigans, Marethari being Marethari, Anders losing control of Justice, Avernus sundering the veil at soldiers keep. Plus the only ways a demon/spirit could enter Thedas is from the veil being sundered by an extreme amount death, and a mage directly or indirectly doing so.
The Hierophant wrote...
Don't forget how Thrask's daughter was easily possessed from losing her cool, Meredith's sister, Grace was possessed, Uldred was overpowered by the Pride demon despite him thinking he can control it, Feynriel was trapped and needed help, Merril fell for Wryme's shenanigans, Marethari being Marethari, Anders losing control of Justice, Avernus sundering the veil at soldiers keep. Plus the only ways a demon/spirit could enter Thedas is from the veil being sundered by an extreme amount death, and a mage directly or indirectly doing so.
The main issue would be the Templars having the numbers to oversee the population as their techniques require dedication, conditioning, and years to learn. Tbh the Templars should have reintergrated the mages who studied at the tower for over a decade, and who passed their Harrowing back into society but only after they have sufficient numbers to police all around Thedas.
Modifié par thibaut72, 10 novembre 2012 - 12:45 .
Herr Uhl wrote...
The Hierophant wrote...
there is no horses in Thedas whatsoever, and the potential death toll increases in the later.
There are horses, they just havent been arsed to make a model for ambient horses as of yet.
Modifié par The Hierophant, 10 novembre 2012 - 12:50 .
thibaut72 wrote...
It's always willing possession, as i can see ; Thrask's daughter also said "you don't know the power of mage", and as Uldred, there are always forgot than Spirit are more powerful than themselves. I read DA wikia, and i found that even if malevolent spirit can possess everything, they prefer mages. So everyone can become abomination or can be subdue by demon in their dreams (with or without magic). As you said, the veil sunder because of extreme amount of deaths, but mage are not always involve in this, and for Gaxkang and Sebastian quest, it's not the case !
The Hierophant wrote...
@hhh89 - i'll strike Anders from the list but i think i'll keep him up there for his naivate, plus didn't Justice transform into a demon overtime against Anders' will.
thibaut72 wrote...
It's always willing possession, as i can see ; Thrask's daughter also said "you don't know the power of mage", and as Uldred, there are always people who forgot that Spirit are more powerful than themselves. I read DA wikia, and i found that even if malevolent spirit can possess everything, they prefer mages. So everyone can become abomination or can be subdue by demon in their dreams (with or without magic). As you said, the veil sunder because of extreme amount of deaths, but mage are not always involve in this, and for Gaxkang and Sebastian quest, it's not the case !
Everyone can be possessed. Your non-mage party companions fall under demonic influence when taken into the Fade, in both games. The Harriman family fell under demoinc influence even though none of them apparently had any magical talent prior to the release of the demon. Templars were possessed in Origins, and forcibly possessed in DA2. Viscount Khedra was possessed and I'm pretty sure he wasn't a mage, though I can't confirm it. Meredith allowed herself to be manipulated by voices in her head that may or may not have been demonic in origin.MisterJB wrote...
Besides, a weak mage can still be possessed.
You mean like magic is?That's a physical impossibility.
"We'll just recruit and brainwash a bunch of violent douchebags and then unleash them on a population that we've taught them to view as subhuman. What could possibly go wrong?"Never! In no way imaginable!
The Hierophant wrote...
Auintus wrote...
I never said that it did. But abominations result from mages dealing with demons, with fewer reasons to do so, you have fewer abominations, in addition to more templars who don't have to watch good mages and can instead focus on defending local populations from maleficar and abominations.
Demons seek mages 24/7 and a little slip up like Merril's moment of weakness despite her training(rumour has it that demons have a form of hypnotic suggestion) would suck for any mage who's doesn't have a super awesome friend like Hawke or the Warden. Plus the mages who haved passed the Harrowing are not immune to demons, and are still susceptible to their influence.
No.Sylvius the Mad wrote...
If the mages perceive it as a prison, does it matter?
You've used [loaded] terms that fail to depict what the Circle is actually like.Auintus wrote...
I fail to see how I've misused my words.
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