253 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

MegaSovereign wrote...

But by using their resources I'm validating their existence.

It's the same argument used to justify the Control ending. "Yes Reapers have unethical origins but I can use them how I want now!"

I'm not disagreeing with you that the endings aren't morally conflicting, I'm saying ME2 subtly does the same thing.

Hmm..... maybe I like Control because I don't really understand the "validating" issue. Well, I sort of get it intellectually, but it has no emotional force at all for me.

[MrFob]

Me2 didn't have much of an ending but it didn't need one either, seeing that it was the middle part of the trilogy.
ME3's ending on the other hand was supposed to be THE ending, the final climax, the apex of all our choices. It was supposed to be varied and customized to the player experience.
So while ME3 maybe the clearer ending, it also has to be considered what the requirements are in the context of the overall narrative.In that context, I am sorry to say that the ME3 endings failed miserably while ME2 did it's job, not exactly perfectly but it did it.

An honorable mention has to go the ME1 in that regard because that game managed to do both at the same time, be a cliffhanger and a satisfying conclusion ... with different outcomes for your choices. That is damn hard to achieve and I still congratulate the ME team for pulling it off in ME1.

[High Five Revival]

I like both endings. Can I have ME3 ending = ME2 ending, rather than > or <.

Both of them are suitably epic, powerful and thought-provoking in their own ways.

Just my opinion on it.

[Paulinesh]

Mass Effect 2 ending was the best :-)

[Cashmoney007]

We have another one of these topics again?

1. ME1 and ME2 were much better games than ME3. I still can't go back and replay ME3 at this time. I can go back and play ME1 and ME2.

2. Op, You really got enough closure in ME3? You really felt like all your characters mattered as much as ME2?

3. Op, It didn't bother you that you didn't have side quests like the other games or that your war assets didn't matter at all?

Modifié par Cashmoney007, 06 novembre 2012 - 10:00 .

[BonFire5]

KingZayd wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

What does diaf even mean?

You youngsters confuse me with your slang.

 
googled it. means "die in a fire".. pleasant.

"Die in A Fire" sounds like something a fink I know would say.

[Applepie_Svk]

Yate wrote...

ME2:

- unexpected twist ending that shatters our concept of the plot
- final decision has few consequences
- two possible endings, one of which is actually a game over
- ends with a blatant sequel hook
- contains a boring boss fight
- no implications of the ending are explained or shown
- no memorable dialogue
- a lot of fans didn't like it

- dunno for who it was unexpected, yes it was twist but since start of the game we knew that Collectors are abducting people so they must do something with so much material...

- ME3 failed to deliver proper consequences for ME2 decisions, as much with every decision which you made in previous games...

- Fail 3 possibile endings - Destroy and Keep / survive and die hard ending

- It was clearly that ME2 won´t be end of the announced trilogy...

- ^ seriously, what implications would you like to see ? Shepard wen´t back to Normandy looking a way to stop the Reapers - story continue with ME3, only thing which failed was ME3 with supposed Earth trial which never happened.

- No memorable dialogs ? ? ? Are you serious, ME2 collector´s base aka ending sequence had few of the best lines of series...

- I have never problem with ME2 ending, dunno like others but for me it worked because it was fitting to nature of your enemy and it was very nasty mystery which gave to your enemy even more fearfull face then before...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 06 novembre 2012 - 10:20 .

[daecath]

[quote]Yate wrote...

ME2:

- unexpected twist ending that shatters our concept of the plot
[/quote]
Not really, no. The human reaper was kind of corney, but there wasn't anything in there that was a total WTF.
[quote]Yate wrote...
- final decision has few consequences
[/quote]
The final decision was supposed to come into play in the next game. Hence the word "final" - ie. the last decision of the game.
[quote]Yate wrote...
- two possible endings, one of which is actually a game over
[/quote]
Again, it wasn't supposed to be a game over, it was supposed to impact the next game. Shepard dies, and you start 3 with a new character. As for "only 2", that's only partially accurate, depending on what you consider the "end". Is it the Omega 4 relay on, or is it once you get to the human reaper, or is it once you beat that, or some point before or after? There are lots of possibilities in the end, based on who lived and who died.
[quote]Yate wrote...
- ends with a blatant sequel hook
[/quote]
The second game in an announced trilogy has a sequal hook? How dare they.
[quote]Yate wrote...
- contains a boring boss fight
[/quote]
as opposed to no boss fight?
[quote]Yate wrote...
- no implications of the ending are explained or shown
[/quote]
Again, 2nd game in a trilogy, you were supposed to find that out in the third game.
[quote]Yate wrote...
- no memorable dialogue
[/quote]
Um, ok.
[quote]Yate wrote...
- a lot of fans didn't like it
[/quote]
Yeah. However, again, it was the 2nd of 3 games, so they had another chance to get it right. And I never heard of any controversy surrounding ME2's ending like there was around ME3's.
[quote]Yate wrote...
ME3:

- unexpected twist ending that shatters our concept of the plot
[/quote]
along with any logical, coherant storytelling.
[quote]Yate wrote...
- final decision has major consequences
[/quote]
which all ignore the previous 150 hours of choices. You might as well buy "Mass Effect: The Button Push Edition. Now you too can play as the heroic Commander Shepard as he/she fights to save the galaxy from the most dangerous threat the galaxy has ever known... by pushing a button." 
[quote]Yate wrote...
- four possible endings, one of which is actually a game over
[/quote]
"Would you like to be burned at the stake, burried alive, drowned, or frozen?" Just because you have options, doesn't mean they're good options.
[quote]Yate wrote...
- gives a sense of closure
[/quote]
Uh, no. Where's the satisfaction of defeating the reapers through hard work and cooperation? Where's the sense of giving them their just desserts as you epically hand them their asses? Where's the satisfaction of a hard earned victory? Where's the epilogue where you see what happens to the people you care about?
[quote]Yate wrote...
- no boss fight
[/quote]
No boss fight.
[quote]Yate wrote...
- various implications of the ending are shown
[/quote]
Big whoop.
[quote]Yate wrote...
- some of the best dialogue and voice acting in the game
[/quote]
Shepard's last line of the ending - "I don't know"
Shepard's last lines prior to the beam - www.youtube.com/watch
[quote]Yate wrote...

- a lot of fans don't like it
[/quote]
This is the last game of the trilogy. This is the last of Shepard's story. This is supposed to be the culmination of your last 100+ hours. ME2 might have fumbled the ball, but they fumbled the ball on the 30 yard line in the middle of the 3rd quarter. ME3 fumbled the ball on the 1 yard line with 2 seconds left in the 4th quarter, down by 1 point. They f****ed up big time, and there's no way to recover from that. Well, that's not true, there are plenty of ways they could have, but instead, they just walked off the field.

[DrGunjah]

Yate wrote...

ME2:

- unexpected twist ending that shatters our concept of the plot
- final decision has few consequences
- two possible endings, one of which is actually a game over
- ends with a blatant sequel hook
- contains a boring boss fight
- no implications of the ending are explained or shown
- no memorable dialogue
- a lot of fans didn't like it

ME3:

- unexpected twist ending that shatters our concept of the plot
- final decision has major consequences
- four possible endings, one of which is actually a game over
- gives a sense of closure
- no boss fight
- various implications of the ending are shown
- some of the best dialogue and voice acting in the game
- a lot of fans don't like it

[George Costanza]

The Mass Effect 2 ending didn't do anything special. It didn't set the world alight. But then it didn't cripple the franchise either. It actually made sense. It fit with the rest of the game. It didn't seem like it had been thought up in five minutes by somebody who had never played any of the games.

Yeah, the ME2 ending was better.

[ElSuperGecko]

I disagree yet agree at the same time.

I loved ME2's ending, from the moment you activated the Omega 4 relay, the decisions you had to make with your squad (and their consequences) to the closing seconds back on board the Normandy. Yes, it was a cliffhanger ending. But it was the middle part of a trilogy; what else did you expect?

From a gameplaying standpoint, compared to the majesty of the Suicide Mission, Priority: Earth was an unmitigated disaster. It failed on every level. However, it was not as straightforward a story as the Suicide Mission. The dialogue and the plot made you think. It was left open to interpretation, with some very cunning dialogue and an end decision which leaves you wondering if you've done the right thing.

With the Suicide Mission you knew where you stood at the end of it. With ME3's ending, you just hope you do.

[GreyLycanTrope]

MegaSovereign wrote...
Before I read this I was actually thinking about that! Yea that's why working for Cerberus wasn't as morally repulsive as it could have been. Every now and then you had opportunities to spin the dialogue as if you're anti-Cerberus or anti-establishment. The current endings don't really allow Shepard to show much disapproval of the Reapers or the Crucible choices. The only way to do this is through the Refusal dialogue but that results in a game over scenario. A massive step in the right direction would have been to add some refusal-like dialogue to the Destroy ending. But I think this was omitted because they didn't want one ending to look more favorable than the other.

I feel like it's multiple factors of the ME3 endings that make certain players feel uncomfortable making the choice. Remove just one of them and it wouldn't have been as rejected. Replacing the Catalyst with a Prothean VI program but still having the same choices and consequences alone would have resulted in less negative feedback. 

Possibly, aside from the moral ambiguity what get's me about ME3 is that it doesn't strike me as an event where your not making a choice but being bullied and threatened into abanoning your established narrative. I'm not sure if simply swapping out the Catalyst for a VI would do it though. Yeah I'd feel more like they were really my decisons but, and again this isn't the case for everyone but for my narrative in particular, as I said
eariler we've never really been  forced to abandon our narrative before hand. How we resolve the issue is also important as how that resolution is presented.

Basically I would be more willing to accept a scenerio simialar to the one in ME1, say having a choice between a quick morally dubious reolution and a more costly one that's less so. Basically the abandon the coucil or get humans killed trying to save them, except it's the Geth on the line the time. Say fire the crucible now and destroy all synthetics or wait for it to full syncrinize with the Citadel and target only the Reapers, doing so would devostate the allied fleet/ ground forces. So bascially ask yourself if synthetic life is as valid as organic life and what you're willing to risk to prove that. Both are successful but do have to undermine your narrative, least I don't see how it would.

[Jere85]

I lolled at the topic name. Good troll, good troll.

[Iakus]

Sion1138 wrote...

Using all of your team, assigning roles, fighting a Reaper, dramatic closing sequence with possible losses and ultimately success, with a feeling of being the hero...

There were considerable inconsistencies, but at least you weren't left feeling like crap.

It left you with a good memory and I don't remember anyone petitioning to change it.

If anything, people wanted more of it.

[dorktainian]

at least shep had a chance of getting out of me2 alive.

[hiraeth]

dorktainian wrote...

at least shep had a chance of getting out of me2 alive.

yup, and if shepard's death is directly related to the amount of effort the player put into the game (i.e., because the player essentially doesn't bother to earn the loyalty of anyone or upgrade the Normandy). makes sense to me.

furthermore, we get some closure on how the whole mission ends: we see a final conversation between shepard and the illusive man, we see the crew rebuilding/cleaning up the normandy, and we see shepard looking at a datapad illustrating reaper tech--> and they didn't have to do *any* of that because ME3 was coming out, so they really could have just rolled credits after the normandy exited the omega-4 relay. 

but at the end of ME3, when "so what happened after that?" matters the most, we get a series of nonsensical events followd by buzz aldrin telling us that shepard was a legend.

[Barquiel]

I didn't like the ME2 ending either. It's really annoying that Shepard doesn't give practical reasons for destroying the base (...or why can't Shepard give the base to the council, or at least inform them?). This bothers me way more than any auto-dialogue in ME3. "I won't let fear compromise who I am." One of the worst lines in the whole series...

The boss fight was also horrible.

[ATiBotka]

dorktainian wrote...

at least shep had a chance of getting out of me2 alive.

High EMS Destroy?

[ElSuperGecko]

iakus wrote...
If anything, people wanted more of it.

Yep, if anything, I was expecting ME3's ending to be similar to the Suicide Mission, but assigning allies and war assets to objectives instead of squad mates.  i.e. sending asari commandos, Blue Suns/Blood Pack/Eclipse mercs, STG teams or Krogan warriors to take out the Hades cannons, protect the Mako convoy, defend the forward base and so forth and so on.  Then whatever you had left at your disposal at the end would have taken on the Destroyer and made the run to the beam.

Basically, I thought ME3's ending would be the equivalent of the suicide mission for the entire galaxy.

[Fifmut]

Gives a sense of closure? Huh, last time I checked, I didn't even knew if I survived or not. 

Btw. it's not Mass Effect 2's fault that the ending had no consequences, it was supposed to affect ME3 greatly.
Same with Mass Effect 1, do you think it was bad because we didn't see the difference in saving/killing the council or choosing Udina/Anderson?

[ATiBotka]

Fifmut wrote...

Gives a sense of closure? Huh, last time I checked, I didn't even knew if I survived or not. 

What's the point of the breath scene if you are dead?

[Vlk3]

Of course ME2 ending was better than ME3. Some people here pointed out the reasons, so I won't repeat that. But there are 2 things I wanted to add, that matter the most:

- ME2 ending makes sense, ME3 ending is very far from making any sense
- ME2 ending left a place for sequel, ME3 ending destroyed the Mass Effect Universe