55 réponses à ce sujet

[Josielyn]

Thinking about it: I am sure that Merrill was not the only Dalish Keeper to try to repair an Elluvian. There is bound to be another clan somewhere that achieved success. That would be fancy if they brought it with them to Arlathven.

[Terrorize69]

hhh89 wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Arlathven will be a major point in DAI I believe, but not due to the elves using the time to take advantage of the turnmoil and retake the dales, but the Templars taking advantage to wipe out the Dalish in one stroke.

Remember they are both Heathens and Apostates, they are top of the Templars hit list in this war, at least Circle mages worship the maker (or a large sum of them do).

Because templars have enough numbers to wipe out the dalish without weakening themselves and giving an advantages to mages? And you should talk about dalish, not elves, since a large part of them worship the Maker, not the Creators.
Anyway, you should consider that if the templars attack the dalish there is a high chance that the dalish decide to make an alliance with the mages. Which would give the mages a great advantage, and it could be critical in beating the templars.

Yes. Yes they do. Templars and Templar supporters greatly outnumber what few Dalish are left, a mass assault on a peaceful gathering of the clans would take them unawares. You forget, the Templars drove them out of the Dales when the Dalish numbers were much higher then they are currently, while the Templars havn't dwindled in that period.

I believe I was talking about the Dalish, not elves.. You even bolded the fact I was referring to Dalish..

Ofcourse theres a high chance the Dalish would then join the mages, but they won't join untill they are provoked, and such an attack will barely leave many survivers, the mages numbers would hardly bolster by much.

[The Elder King]

Terrorize69 wrote...



Yes. Yes they do. Templars and Templar supporters greatly outnumber what few Dalish are left, a mass assault on a peaceful gathering of the clans would take them unawares. You forget, the Templars drove them out of the Dales when the Dalish numbers were much higher then they are currently, while the Templars havn't dwindled in that period.

I believe I was talking about the Dalish, not elves.. You even bolded the fact I was referring to Dalish..

Ofcourse theres a high chance the Dalish would then join the mages, but they won't join untill they are provoked, and such an attack will barely leave many survivers, the mages numbers would hardly bolster by much.

I didn't read Asunder, but the supporters they'd need in term of military power are the Andrastian nations and their armies, not some random farmers.
About the Dales, the dalish were defeated, but they invaded Orlais and nearly took Val Royeaux, and the templars weren't the only army who defeat the Dales.. And we don't know how much dalish and how many clans exist.
You were indeed talking about the dalish, but that phrase you mentioned "elves" instead of "dalish" and I bolded the wrong part. I though you were talking about elves in general.
The point is, I don't think the dalish are enough weak to be defeated easily (and you are assuming they wouldn't expect an attack from the templars. They're not stupid. Considering that they are now free to act in they way they want, the dalish could think that the templars are going to attack them, and be careful and on guard, or decide to ally themselves with the mages).

[Josielyn]

Heh heh, so what if some Tevinter Dalish Elves brought their human slaves with them to Arlathven? Would Dalish elves even own slaves? Or does that not fit with the Vir Atishan idea?

[The Elder King]

Josielyn wrote...

Heh heh, so what if some Tevinter Dalish Elves brought their human slaves with them to Arlathven? Would Dalish elves even own slaves? Or does that not fit with the Vir Atishan idea?

There is no Tevinter Dalish elf. Dalish are nomads. There might be dalish that were born and raised in the Imperium, but I doubt that they had slaves (probably the opposite).
Regardless, if the slaves are elves, I don't think the dalish would allow slavery. If the slaves are humans, they'd either kill them or release them (depending of the dalish/Keeper opinions about humans).

[Josielyn]

Good point regarding Dalish view on slavery, considering they don't even use beasts of burden, from what I understand, the Halla are "volunteers" or "partners". Too bad they don't have any trained Dalish predator animals (Dire Wolves would be entertaining).

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Josielyn wrote...

Here I go again wishing for a timeline.  Considering the time covered by DAO, DA2, and now DA3, the question comes to mind:  When was the last Arlathven (meeting of the Dalish clans) and is the next Arlathven going to happen during DA3, or between DA2 and DA3?

For what it's worth, Merrill was given to Clan Sabrae to be Marethari's First when she was four years old, during an Arlathven.

So if we knew what her age was at the start of DA2 we'd have an idea of what years Arlathven would be expected, though not where that lies wrt DA3 since we don't yet know where it sits on the timeline.

[Terrorize69]

hhh89 wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...



Yes. Yes they do. Templars and Templar supporters greatly outnumber what few Dalish are left, a mass assault on a peaceful gathering of the clans would take them unawares. You forget, the Templars drove them out of the Dales when the Dalish numbers were much higher then they are currently, while the Templars havn't dwindled in that period.

I believe I was talking about the Dalish, not elves.. You even bolded the fact I was referring to Dalish..

Ofcourse theres a high chance the Dalish would then join the mages, but they won't join untill they are provoked, and such an attack will barely leave many survivers, the mages numbers would hardly bolster by much.

 And we don't know how much dalish and how many clans exist.

The point is, I don't think the dalish are enough weak to be defeated easily (and you are assuming they wouldn't expect an attack from the templars. They're not stupid. Considering that they are now free to act in they way they want, the dalish could think that the templars are going to attack them, and be careful and on guard, or decide to ally themselves with the mages).

Don't forget that being Dalish doesn't mean everyone is a warrior, only half the clan if that are fighters, so when you consider how few Dalish there actually are, you then have to half that number to make up a fighting force. Its low. They are weak when it comes to a open assault.

A Dalish clans best defence is its small size, being able yo up and move camp if the camps location is at risk, Arlathven would be completely different, it will be near impossible to concel it. The Dalish would lose all their advatanges of surprise, hunting, tracking and small numbers that they rely on to survive.

In the past, Templars would of been no match, not had the time and resorces to attack a gathering of the clans for aslong as they had circles to oversee. But no, they don't, now there will be roaming war bands of Templars routing out mages and Dalish alike.

[Josielyn]

Yes, but lets not forget the powerful abilities that the Dalish Keepers we have seen so far have: Zathrian brought down a terrible curse that turned humans into werewolves and enchanted trees to fight the Warden. Velanna from Awakening and her "Nature's Vengeance" spell was hard to get past (being impaled by thorned roots) and Merrill's "Ensnare" and "Wrath of the Elvhen" was a nice solution to large groups of enemies. With just 3 Keepers like them side by side, that much power in a small space would be a formidable match for a roaming war band of Templars. Templars do not have Dalish Keepers imprisoned in a tall tower to study and form counterattacks against their kind of magic.

[MisterJB]

I hope they do. It would be extremely convenient to catch them all at once.

[Terrorize69]

Josielyn wrote...

Yes, but lets not forget the powerful abilities that the Dalish Keepers we have seen so far have: Zathrian brought down a terrible curse that turned humans into werewolves and enchanted trees to fight the Warden. Velanna from Awakening and her "Nature's Vengeance" spell was hard to get past (being impaled by thorned roots) and Merrill's "Ensnare" and "Wrath of the Elvhen" was a nice solution to large groups of enemies. With just 3 Keepers like them side by side, that much power in a small space would be a formidable match for a roaming war band of Templars. Templars do not have Dalish Keepers imprisoned in a tall tower to study and form counterattacks against their kind of magic.

You seem to have missed the entire fact Templars both resist/dispel/silence magic.

Each clan has 1 fully trained Keeper and 1 apprentice, against every single Templar with the power to strip away a Keepers use of magic.

[Corker]

Josielyn wrote...

Heh heh, so what if some Tevinter Dalish Elves brought their human slaves with them to Arlathven? Would Dalish elves even own slaves? Or does that not fit with the Vir Atishan idea?

They certainly wouldn't own human slaves, since avoiding contact with humans is an important part of their attempts to reclaim immortality.

[The Elder King]

Josielyn wrote...

Yes, but lets not forget the powerful abilities that the Dalish Keepers we have seen so far have: Zathrian brought down a terrible curse that turned humans into werewolves and enchanted trees to fight the Warden. Velanna from Awakening and her "Nature's Vengeance" spell was hard to get past (being impaled by thorned roots) and Merrill's "Ensnare" and "Wrath of the Elvhen" was a nice solution to large groups of enemies. With just 3 Keepers like them side by side, that much power in a small space would be a formidable match for a roaming war band of Templars. Templars do not have Dalish Keepers imprisoned in a tall tower to study and form counterattacks against their kind of magic.

I think that elven magic, while different from human's, could be blocked in the same way by the templars. Blood magic can't be blocked because it works differently from normal magic. Normal human magic and elven magic work in the same way, and I remember a dialogue (probably in the dalish origin) in which it's stated that the dalish should be careful about templars. Considering how much powerful the Keeper are, if their abilities aren't blocked by the templars, there would be no need to fear templars.

[Josielyn]

Sorry, I am repeating my earlier post on this premise that the Dalish would actually stand a good chance: "What if the Dalish came up with an artifact that could nullify Templar abilities within a certain distance? Ar tu na din! Ar tu na lin!"

Or better yet, what if they had their own volunteer "guard dragon"? So if the Templars just stay away, then no problem.

Agreed that is it unlikely for Dalish to keep human slaves if it affects their lifespan, but it seems the elven lifespan has already been shortened long ago... not sure if this can be reversed? Especially if they still need to trade with humans for metal parts for their Aravels.

[The Elder King]

Josielyn wrote...

Sorry, I am repeating my earlier post on this premise that the Dalish would actually stand a good chance: "What if the Dalish came up with an artifact that could nullify Templar abilities within a certain distance? Ar tu na din! Ar tu na lin!"

Or better yet, what if they had their own volunteer "guard dragon"? So if the Templars just stay away, then no problem.

Agreed that is it unlikely for Dalish to keep human slaves if it affects their lifespan, but it seems the elven lifespan has already been shortened long ago... not sure if this can be reversed? Especially if they still need to trade with humans for metal parts for their Aravels.

Dalish live longer than humans and city elves, though I think it's impossible for them to regain their immortality.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

hhh89 wrote...

Josielyn wrote...

Sorry, I am repeating my earlier post on this premise that the Dalish would actually stand a good chance: "What if the Dalish came up with an artifact that could nullify Templar abilities within a certain distance? Ar tu na din! Ar tu na lin!"

Or better yet, what if they had their own volunteer "guard dragon"? So if the Templars just stay away, then no problem.

Agreed that is it unlikely for Dalish to keep human slaves if it affects their lifespan, but it seems the elven lifespan has already been shortened long ago... not sure if this can be reversed? Especially if they still need to trade with humans for metal parts for their Aravels.

Dalish live longer than humans and city elves, though I think it's impossible for them to regain their immortality.

Have we ever seen direct proof that the elves actually were immortal? And that their lifespan now is above that of a human? Seems to me that they could be describing their lifespans relative to a City Elf's, and that can't be all that long with the conditions that they live in.

[The Elder King]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...




Have we ever seen direct proof that the elves actually were immortal? And that their lifespan now is above that of a human? Seems to me that they could be describing their lifespans relative to a City Elf's, and that can't be all that long with the conditions that they live in.

h
About immortality, no. About the longer lifespan, I don't know how they're comparing it. Though I doubt that they're not considering the conditions city elves live. And it depends by how much the lifespan is improved. If, for example, city elves live for 50-60 years and the dalish life for 100-110 years, it can't be explained by the change of living condition.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

hhh89 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...




Have we ever seen direct proof that the elves actually were immortal? And that their lifespan now is above that of a human? Seems to me that they could be describing their lifespans relative to a City Elf's, and that can't be all that long with the conditions that they live in.

h
About immortality, no. About the longer lifespan, I don't know how they're comparing it. Though I doubt that they're not considering the conditions city elves live. And it depends by how much the lifespan is improved. If, for example, city elves live for 50-60 years and the dalish life for 100-110 years, it can't be explained by the change of living condition.

Actually, that does sound like about the top end of difference a healthy lifestyle could make. On the other hand, Zathrian is described as "unusual" rather than "unprecedented..."

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 08 novembre 2012 - 08:18 .

[Josielyn]

I think Zathrian is different, though, wasn't it the curse that kept him alive? Also, I can't help but think of the spirit in the ancient Elven tomb in DAO, it was like she was still conscious... but the body was too dessicated to be of any use so she just assumed ghost form and tried to obliterate her tomb raiders. So, that brings up a new topic: Uthenera (when Elders go to rest). So, do Dalish still practice Uthenera? It is said that they plant a tree over the remains of their dead... but I am thinking that Uthenera would not fit too well with a nomadic lifestyle, would it?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Josielyn wrote...

I think Zathrian is different, though, wasn't it the curse that kept him alive?

Yeah, he lives for an unusual reason, but Lanaya doesn't seem to think he's far enough out of the common way as to merit suspicion. So several centuries might not be all that rare.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Traditional Uthenera, as we've heard it described, would be redundant for modern Dalish. They don't live long enough. I suppose you'd be able to cart their bodies around in the aravel though.

[Josielyn]

Maybe they can put little bumper stickers on the Aravel that says "Elder on Board" or something like that!

[Teddiliza]

I would like to see the Elves kick Tevinter's ass as payback for taking them as slaves for so many years. Then they could reclaim some of their artifacts from Tevinter and be granted rights to pursue claiming territory in the Tevinter Imperium by the Divine. (Sending the Heathens to do the work of 'her Holiness' either means and end to the elves or an end to the Tevinter meddling (either way less heathens from Her Holiness' perspective) Maybe even see them allied with the Qunari ( kind of like in Kirkwall) with Tevinter as a common enemy. Either way, involving the elves could be seen as an 'all or nothing' effort by the elves to regain a bit of power and status vs to continue hiding or being subservient members of society. The opposite also could hold true, that Tevinter might offer the chance to unite with the elves against the Divine when they have been just as oppressed by humans in the other lands. So you could have the Dalish Elves playing a pivotal role in whoever they side with, and their fate dependent on the outcome: Reclaim some glory, or continue being hidden nomads.

[Viktoria Landers]

Teddiliza, I don't see how the Dalish Elves have the military power to attack Tevinter Imperium. Sure, the Imperium is not like it's old self, but it's still a powerful nation. The biggest disadvantage of the Dalish is certainly the lack of numbers which I'm pretty sure they want to preserve instead of starting an invasion under the Divine's orders(?)

[n7stormrunner]

hmm random question, forgive me if it has been asked before but is it known if all the pre-quickening elders are dead or not?