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[Drakar123]

What are your thoughts on magocracy as a system to govern a country ?When most people hear the word magocracy,they instantly think of the Tevinter Imperium since that is the only example of that system we have.

Having read a large amount of discussions about the templar vs mage conflict it seems most people think a country where mages rule is something that should absolutely be avoided.This is probably because they think a magocratic country will inveitably turn into another tevinter imperium.

Personally i think that if the imperium abolished slavery and solved it's corruption problems it would be the best country to live in both as a mundane and as a mage.In my opinion a properly established magocracy would be better then any political system we have in our world today.

Say what you will of Tevinter but the fact remains that the vast majority of new technological and magical discoveries have come from the imperium.This has remained true even after it's fall.Tevinter is the only country that has had any significant magical advancements after the chantry was founded albeit since it's not as strong as it once was those advancements are much smaller.

Take the Lttany of Adralla for example.It was invetned by a Teviner magister who speciffically have incentive not to do anything to reduce the power of blood mages.On the other hand the chantry which holds a far worse view of blood magic then the imperium's magisters has done absolutely nothing to make blood mages less of a threat.True the Chantry kills all blood mages once they are discovered but killing them won't undo the damage they've caused and it won't prevent others from doing the same in the future.

Sure Tevinter is constantly demonized but anyone who takes a closer look at Orlais can see that's it's system is far worse then Tevinter's.Yes they don't have slaves but the nobles in orlais are horrible horrible people.The goal of the orlesian nobles is to be as vane as possible and try to ruin each other for fun as a part of the game.They of course don't care how many innocent people get caught in the crossifre.Chevaliers can literally kill any peasant on the street with no repricutions what so ever.They can rape people in broad daylight and no one will care.

I am not trying to justify the actions of the magisters but unlike orlesians nobles(and nobles in pretty much every other country) who do everything for personal pleasure and fun,the magisters while they may commit actions just as attrocious if not more so do it to advance their understanding of magic and science and ultimately their actions benefit the imperium as a whole.The actions of the chevaliers however serve only to weaken the orlesian empire.

Now let's assume the imperium was not corrupt and slavery was illegal.A magocracy is a system where the most powerful mages are the ones in power.For a mage to be powerful they have to be intelligent otherwise they wouldn't be able to use their magic well enough to reach positions of power.While mundanes would not be able to hold positions of power in a magocracy such a system insures that the leaders will always be highly competent and would strive to increase scientific and magical knowledge as much as possible to advance their position.There wouldnt be any of the problems we have with capitalism today where people supress new discoveries so they would earn more money because such a system strongly encourages progress.The competativness of such a system would also ensure thet it never grows stale.

Magic would not be feared like it is in other societies and could be used to greatly improve the lives of all of a country's citizens.Imagine if the services of spirit healers were widely available to everyone and magic was a part of people's everyday lives.If things like the sending stoens the circles have were available in every household for instance thedas could get its own version of telephones.Certainly it may not be plausable now but with enought research it probably wouldn't be too difficult.

As long as Magisters were held accoutable for ther actions and were severly punished should they ever become corrupt a magocracy would ensure that every single person in a country's goverment was competent.Anyway tell me your thoughts ?I apologize for my english but it's not my native language.

[Plaintiff]

Any "magocracy" is going to be oppressive to some degree, because the term implies that the right to rule is limited only to a particular kind of people.

There's no reason to assume that a magocracy would be worse than any other form of government that currently exists in Thedas, but they all suck so that's not saying a great deal.

[Big I]

Plaintiff wrote...
There's no reason to assume that a magocracy would be worse than any other form of government that currently exists in Thedas, but they all suck so that's not saying a great deal.

Exactly this. The only difference between a society with mages in charge instead of nobles is which class of people is giving the orders. I'd also like to point out the other known society where the mages make the decisions; the Dalish, with power invested in the Keepers.


The closest thing to democracy we've seen in Dragon Age are the Circles with their fraternities coming together to vote on important issues, the dwarven Assembly (only for nobles), and Ferelden where commoners can choose which lords they give their alleigance to.

[brushyourteeth]

A mageocracy is fine in a population that consists of only mages.

But if non-mages are included in a population, they should also be allowed to have a representative in that government. Even if it isn't an elected official.

[AntiChri5]

Mages represent far too small a percentage of the population to let them rule, plus mages and normal people are different.

What is the worst a corrupt noble/king can do? Make bad laws, torture and kill those on their lands before eventually dying.

What is the worst a corrupt mage king can do? Extend their life indefinitely with the blood of their subjects, take over the minds of whoever they please, sunder the veil and release demons.....and everything a normal king can do.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Your argument seems to be that if the Tevinter Magisters stopped being corrupt, they'd be alright rulers. That much is true, but how do you stop them from being corrupt? You pretty much can't. If the mages are at the top of the pile, with political power and magical power, there's not a lot the commoners can do to enforce equability. It might be a nice place anyway, but only if the magisters decide to do so either out of the kindness of their hearts or because it makes the country a better place to live. The latter should work, but in Thedas it never will.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 07 novembre 2012 - 04:40 .

[Lord of War]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Mages represent far too small a percentage of the population to let them rule, plus mages and normal people are different.

What is the worst a corrupt noble/king can do? Make bad laws, torture and kill those on their lands before eventually dying.

What is the worst a corrupt mage king can do? Extend their life indefinitely with the blood of their subjects, take over the minds of whoever they please, sunder the veil and release demons.....and everything a normal king can do.

So? Couldn't a corrupt king use mages to do the same thing? 

That is the thing that bothers me about the whole mage situation. How have secular rulers not seized control of the Circles? I'm sure the Divine gives Orlais a free pass, but it really hurts my immersion.

[Vandicus]

What makes you think the Tevinter are the only source of innovation? The Qunari are more technologically advanced than they are.

The Litany was created by a rogue Tevinter Magister.

We don't have a real way to compare Orlesian nobility with Tevinter magisters. Your assertions don't really have any basis in anything that the Warden or Hawke have seen or in codexes.

Killing a blood mage keeps that particular blood mage from killing more people.

The person with the most magic potential and blood supply(measured in slaves) is not necessarily a good ruler. In fact, its rather likely that its the opposite. Why in the world would they seek to advance technology or magic for anyone besides themselves when it puts their power and life at risk? What sane magister would bring the people he rules closer to him in personal power? The talents required for magic are different than the talents required for administration. Making the strongest mage ruler would be as arbitrary as making the best carpenter ruler.

Who could hold the magisters accountable for anything? Those people rule by virtue of their strength. The quickest way to power in a magocracy in Thedas is through killing, of both rivals and slaves to power blood magic.

[Vandicus]

Cyrahzax wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Mages represent far too small a percentage of the population to let them rule, plus mages and normal people are different.

What is the worst a corrupt noble/king can do? Make bad laws, torture and kill those on their lands before eventually dying.

What is the worst a corrupt mage king can do? Extend their life indefinitely with the blood of their subjects, take over the minds of whoever they please, sunder the veil and release demons.....and everything a normal king can do.

So? Couldn't a corrupt king use mages to do the same thing? 

That is the thing that bothers me about the whole mage situation. How have secular rulers not seized control of the Circles? I'm sure the Divine gives Orlais a free pass, but it really hurts my immersion.

Attacking a Circle=Exalted March to the face.

So, lets assume a king successfully seizes the Circle in his country. Then he drafts all the mages to fight(against their will). Then the Chantry comes in with the mages from every other Circle, the entire Templar Order, and every country who they can convince to join them(and you can bet those countries would not be happy about a non-neutral Circle giving their rival an edge in political affairs).

If a king is stupid enough to let a blood mage into his presence, the king probably won't be the one using the blood mage's power to mind control people(*hint, the blood mage is capable of mind controlling people, and a king is a subset of people).

[Lord of War]

Vandicus wrote...

Cyrahzax wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Mages represent far too small a percentage of the population to let them rule, plus mages and normal people are different.

What is the worst a corrupt noble/king can do? Make bad laws, torture and kill those on their lands before eventually dying.

What is the worst a corrupt mage king can do? Extend their life indefinitely with the blood of their subjects, take over the minds of whoever they please, sunder the veil and release demons.....and everything a normal king can do.

So? Couldn't a corrupt king use mages to do the same thing? 

That is the thing that bothers me about the whole mage situation. How have secular rulers not seized control of the Circles? I'm sure the Divine gives Orlais a free pass, but it really hurts my immersion.

Attacking a Circle=Exalted March to the face.

So, lets assume a king successfully seizes the Circle in his country. Then he drafts all the mages to fight(against their will). Then the Chantry comes in with the mages from every other Circle, the entire Templar Order, and every country who they can convince to join them(and you can bet those countries would not be happy about a non-neutral Circle giving their rival an edge in political affairs).

If a king is stupid enough to let a blood mage into his presence, the king probably won't be the one using the blood mage's power to mind control people(*hint, the blood mage is capable of mind controlling people, and a king is a subset of people).

I think you might be overestimating the loyalty of the Chantry nations. No king is going to fight a war to reduce his own power. Once one of them seizes a Circle, they all will. As for defeating the Templar Order, that would be a logistical nightmare for the Chantry, leaving barely defended Circles and such all over the continent.

As for a king using a blood mage, why not? A blood mage at court is a secret with one friend. They aren't all the slavering maniacs we saw in DA2, and some of them just want to live the good life. Why risk it all? 

[AntiChri5]

So? Couldn't a corrupt king use mages to do the same thing? 

Why would the mages take that offer? Any mage willing to mind control people and kill innocents to gain power/prolong life would likely already be more powerful then the king, or simply mind control the king.

That is the thing that bothers me about the whole mage situation. How have secular rulers not seized control of the Circles? I'm sure the Divine gives Orlais a free pass, but it really hurts my immersion.

You are vastly underestimating the power of the Chantry. They are the most politically powerful organosation in Thedas, capable of wielding influence over kings and the rulers of city states. The one person in Kirkwall Meredith never tried to order around was Elthina.

Added to that is their religious power, the peasants of almost every nation will do as the Chantry says.