216 réponses à ce sujet

[PorcelynDoll]

I slayed the arch demon, married the man I loved and became Queen of Fereldan. I think that's a lot of personal happiness. I don't understand the problem. If you didn't like your ending make a different play through.

[Arppis]

Where player character sacrifices for victory are the best endings of all. Not having difficult choices at the end just cheapens that sacrifice, because you can choose not to be an idiot and go for safe bet.

So yeah, I hope there is a difficult choice like. "You want to be happy? Then you gotta sacrifice entire kingdom for your own happiness." or something.

[legbamel]

I read the thread title as "personal hygiene for the PC", which led me to expect a very different thread.

On-topic, I have to agree that the Warden had plenty of opportunity for happiness, if not retiring to the countryside to raise babies (thank the Maker). I'm curious what the OP wanted to have happen.

[David Gaider]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...
Saving the world tastes sour if you're left alone and miserable in the end. Seriously, the ending of the original game tasted so sour that I was nauseous afterwards. I had to get up and go take some Gravol.

If you considered the original game to have a sour and unhappy ending, this is probably not the series for you. From the other thread on this topic, it's easy to see that some people really do just want fantasy wish-fulfillment-- save the world, get the girl/boy, live happily ever after. Totally understandable.

This is not that series. This does not mean that every story need end on a bitter note (as much as I joke about liking bittersweet endings the best, I don't in fact think that every ending needs to be bittersweet... and I don't actually think that 'bittersweet' actually qualifies unless there's also some sweet in there), but endings without some kind of personal cost from the hero are unlikely. Ewok parades and "yay! you get everything you ever wanted!" type ego-boost endings are not really where we're ever going to go. If that's not clear after the last two Dragon Age games, then I guess you're not paying attention.

And, incidentally, whatever you thought of Mass Effect is really quite irrelevant on this front. There is very little crossover between the teams on the creative side, so trying to look for some kind of historical pattern or expecting that a perceived pattern will continue is more of an exercise in frustration on your part. Just so you're aware.

[Evil_Jashinist]

My castless dwarf started out as a grunt for the local crimelord - at the end she had found both love and many friendships and was elected a paragon by the assembly, creating her own house for her family and raising them from castless to nobles.

My mage begun trapped in the Circle longing for a chance to make his own fate - at the end of the game he was free to do anything he wanted and go anywhere he wished and had found someone he loved.

My dalish was torn from her happy life and lost her best friend all in a matter of hours, at the end of the game she had overcome her own hatred of humans and given her people a land of their own.

Bottom line is, you can get some really happy endings in Origins if you play your cards right. Far more happier than DA2, where your entire family can be dead except/including your sister/brother and if you supported the mages you're a refugee again and have left everything you built for yourself once more. I think that's less happy than becoming a hero who saved the world and lived to tell the tale (unless you sacrificed yourself).

Modifié par Evil_Jashinist, 07 novembre 2012 - 03:46 .

[CrazyRah]

This topic will probably get quite varied responses since people got different views on the subject about personal happiness and how much is required for them to feel that their PC got it. For me my Warden got her personal happiness. She slain the Archdemon and remained in a relationship with the man she loves and on top of that she can continue to serve the Wardens which is her wish. As a mage it also feels great to hear magic being talked about in more ways than "abominations rawr".

Hawke on the other hand is a bit different. Sure my Hawke got some personal happiness too, she reconile with Carver at the very end when he defend her against the templars. She also manage to stay together with Anders and together they spark change into the world with the rebellion. It's not as much as my Warden got but the personal happiness is still there for Hawke aswell

[ledod]

I am on the fence: while the story should ultimately determine its conclusion, my personal investment in my characters does compel me to wish for the best. Unfortunately, it's very easy to become attatched to our 'avatar' in Thedas.

My original Warden, Solona Amell, had an especially tragic conclusion to her adventures in Ferelden: her lover was sacrificed, her best friend decieved/abandoned her, and 'place' was irresolute. Oh, poor Solona; always a lady, always altruistic, and eternally heartbroken.

(Too bad that data was corrupted >.<)

[David Gaider]

shlenderman wrote...
The thing with the op was, I guess, that her female elf got dumped a little too hard.

My impression is that some people see romance plots as separate from the main plot-- as in the offering of a romance of any kind is like a contract guaranteeing that, despite whatever else happens in the plot, that romance needs to have a happy ending. If not marriage & babies, then the possibility of such as you run off into the ether with the romance of your choice.

I don't really agree, there. Not that such endings should ever be possible, but that they're required. That their mere existence means the entire game has transformed into a love story where everything else is secondary. I certainly understand why someone might want that, but that's simply never going to be the case-- it wasn't 13 years ago when I started writing game romances, and isn't now.. Will this cause some folks to thrash around and despair about how we're "getting it wrong" and no doubt completely misunderstanding what makes our stories awesome? Probably. And yet.

[ledod]

David Gaider wrote...
 That their mere existence means the entire game has transformed into a love story where everything else is secondary...

Very true. Given that romances are a mere footnote in the chronicles of our characters, the result of said romance should not project itself upon the greater context of the plot.

Possible Spolier:

For example, my aforementioned, and delightfully tragic, warden, Solona, lost her sweetheart to the blight. Love between Solona, and Alistair could not change their responsibility to Ferelden, and the inevitable death of one of the lovers. Thus, while there was indeed a romance, the conclusion, the context, was not going to change.

[The Elder King]

David Gaider wrote...

shlenderman wrote...
The thing with the op was, I guess, that her female elf got dumped a little too hard.

My impression is that some people see romance plots as separate from the main plot-- as in the offering of a romance of any kind is like a contract guaranteeing that, despite whatever else happens in the plot, that romance needs to have a happy ending. If not marriage & babies, then the possibility of such as you run off into the ether with the romance of your choice.

I don't really agree, there. Not that such endings should ever be possible, but that they're required. That their mere existence means the entire game has transformed into a love story where everything else is secondary. I certainly understand why someone might want that, but that's simply never going to be the case-- it wasn't 13 years ago when I started writing game romances, and isn't now.. Will this cause some folks to thrash around and despair about how we're "getting it wrong" and no doubt completely misunderstanding what makes our stories awesome? Probably. And yet.

I agree with you, as I agreed with what you said in your first post.
Regardless, you guys didn't make Zevran, Leliana and Alistair dumb the Warden in Awakening. They're in other placed doing their business. The letters from Zevran and Lieliana don't suggest a break-up. 

[eyesofastorm]

David Gaider wrote...

... but endings without some kind of personal cost from the hero are unlikely. Ewok parades and "yay! you get everything you ever wanted!" type ego-boost endings are not really where we're ever going to go. 

But you have said multiple times that you like to do new things and don't like to retread old ground.  A rainbows and butterflies ending does qualify as something different for you.  Why completely write that off as a possibility?

[David Gaider]

eyesofastorm wrote...
But you have said multiple times that you like to do new things and don't like to retread old ground.  A rainbows and butterflies ending does qualify as something different for you.  Why completely write that off as a possibility?

I've never dove head-first into a barrel of razor blades either, but I doubt I'll ever try that just for the sheer novelty factor.

[sylvanaerie]

hhh89 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

shlenderman wrote...
The thing with the op was, I guess, that her female elf got dumped a little too hard.

My impression is that some people see romance plots as separate from the main plot-- as in the offering of a romance of any kind is like a contract guaranteeing that, despite whatever else happens in the plot, that romance needs to have a happy ending. If not marriage & babies, then the possibility of such as you run off into the ether with the romance of your choice.

I don't really agree, there. Not that such endings should ever be possible, but that they're required. That their mere existence means the entire game has transformed into a love story where everything else is secondary. I certainly understand why someone might want that, but that's simply never going to be the case-- it wasn't 13 years ago when I started writing game romances, and isn't now.. Will this cause some folks to thrash around and despair about how we're "getting it wrong" and no doubt completely misunderstanding what makes our stories awesome? Probably. And yet.

I agree with you, as I agreed with what you said in your first post.
Regardless, you guys didn't make Zevran, Leliana and Alistair dumb the Warden in Awakening. They're in other placed doing their business. The letters from Zevran and Lieliana don't suggest a break-up. 

Leliana's letter was quite sweet, and she mentions my warden in DA2 during her cameo saying "He's very dear to my heart" even if he married the Queen.  King Alistair has a sweet cameo with a lover/wife in Awakenings, giving her a peck on the cheek (I think its a kiss, he may be whispering something naughty in her ear, I've never been able to decide) and mentions her with affection in DA2 during his cameos there.  I've never been able to complete the Zevran or Morrigan romances so I can't speak for those two, but I understand Zev, once you win his heart, becomes yours ever after, even if the warden dies.  He will even mention it in DA2 during his cameo and declines Isabela.  Morrigan leaves...well never was quite sure JUST why Morrigan leaves if you tell her 'no', but I guess she ran off to have a hissy fit somewhere.

For me, the main meat of the story was the game plot itself.  Romance is a sweet side trip, for me no less important because who shares your journey with you is an important factor, but not game breaking.  I played and enjoyed the companions in Awakenings, none of whom are romanceable.

And I was very happy however my warden ended up.  Dead, Mistress to the king, Queen, King.  I loved all the endings of DAO and appreciated them.  In the end, happiness is a personal thing.  Regardless of what happens to the warden, she/he stopped the Blight, and any hero worth his chops can take great pleasure in saving their friends, their family, even total strangers. I am sorry the OP felt gypped by the game's situations, but I certainly didn't. 

If you are looking for storybook 'happily ever after' without putting in any effort to view the endings in such a way, you are going to be disappointed.  Yes, the warden is tainted, and will die young, have nightmares most of the rest of her life and probably never have kids, and potentially can die ending the Blight, but all my wardens came to see, "It isn't how long you have, it's what you do with the time you have that matters."

[eyesofastorm]

David Gaider wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...
But you have said multiple times that you like to do new things and don't like to retread old ground.  A rainbows and butterflies ending does qualify as something different for you.  Why completely write that off as a possibility?

I've never dove head-first into a barrel of razor blades either, but I doubt I'll ever try that just for the sheer novelty factor.

Comparing a happy ending to a barrel full of razor blades?  You are a bitter old man aren't you?  

[MisterJB]

David Gaider wrote...

shlenderman wrote...
The thing with the op was, I guess, that her female elf got dumped a little too hard.

My impression is that some people see romance plots as separate from the main plot-- as in the offering of a romance of any kind is like a contract guaranteeing that, despite whatever else happens in the plot, that romance needs to have a happy ending. If not marriage & babies, then the possibility of such as you run off into the ether with the romance of your choice.

I don't really agree, there. Not that such endings should ever be possible, but that they're required. That their mere existence means the entire game has transformed into a love story where everything else is secondary. I certainly understand why someone might want that, but that's simply never going to be the case-- it wasn't 13 years ago when I started writing game romances, and isn't now.. Will this cause some folks to thrash around and despair about how we're "getting it wrong" and no doubt completely misunderstanding what makes our stories awesome? Probably. And yet.

I wholeheartedly agree. Morrigan is my favorite character and I still remember how heartbroken I was during my first playthrough when I realized there wasn't going to be any "Happily Ever After". 
And it felt so good.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

I really, really hope the PC in this game will at least be allowed to have some personal happiness in the end, once the world is saved and all.

Saving the world tastes sour if you're left alone and miserable in the end. Seriously, the ending of the original game tasted so sour that I was nauseous afterwards. I had to get up and go take some Gravol.

"Yay! You saved the world! But you're still just a mage/the insignificant younger sibling/an elf who's exiled from the Alienage/an elf whose exiled from your clan/a casteless dwarf/an unwanted ex prince(ss). Sorry."

Geez, where the hell's your respect for the person who saved your scrawny neck?

fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/158/1/c/1c9983d4e43b8a7a3d9bab47052b1d31.jpg

In victory, sacrifice.

I have no problem with bittersweet endings or sourness at the end of  game, so long as it suits the story and tone of a game.

I also have no problem with everything turning out awesome for the main character after an epic struggle to achieve victory either.

As to the issues you mentioned with respect to the ending of Dragon Age: Origins, well I think part of the point of that game was that the life of a Grey Warden is a hard one. Your life-span is shortened, during Blights you suffer from frightening, vivid nightmarish visions, and it is your duty to die fighting the Darkspawn, one way or another, Blight or not.

While we won't playing as a Warden in Inquisition, I choose to put my faith in the game's writers. I trust that they'll tell a good story, whether the ending is wholly happy or not.

[The Elder King]

sylvanaerie wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

shlenderman wrote...
The thing with the op was, I guess, that her female elf got dumped a little too hard.

My impression is that some people see romance plots as separate from the main plot-- as in the offering of a romance of any kind is like a contract guaranteeing that, despite whatever else happens in the plot, that romance needs to have a happy ending. If not marriage & babies, then the possibility of such as you run off into the ether with the romance of your choice.

I don't really agree, there. Not that such endings should ever be possible, but that they're required. That their mere existence means the entire game has transformed into a love story where everything else is secondary. I certainly understand why someone might want that, but that's simply never going to be the case-- it wasn't 13 years ago when I started writing game romances, and isn't now.. Will this cause some folks to thrash around and despair about how we're "getting it wrong" and no doubt completely misunderstanding what makes our stories awesome? Probably. And yet.

I agree with you, as I agreed with what you said in your first post.
Regardless, you guys didn't make Zevran, Leliana and Alistair dumb the Warden in Awakening. They're in other placed doing their business. The letters from Zevran and Lieliana don't suggest a break-up. 

Leliana's letter was quite sweet, and she mentions my warden in DA2 during her cameo saying "He's very dear to my heart" even if he married the Queen.  King Alistair has a sweet cameo with a lover/wife in Awakenings, giving her a peck on the cheek (I think its a kiss, he may be whispering something naughty in her ear, I've never been able to decide) and mentions her with affection in DA2 during his cameos there.  I've never been able to complete the Zevran or Morrigan romances so I can't speak for those two, but I understand Zev, once you win his heart, becomes yours ever after, even if the warden dies.  He will even mention it in DA2 during his cameo and declines Isabela.  Morrigan leaves...well never was quite sure JUST why Morrigan leaves if you tell her 'no', but I guess she ran off to have a hissy fit somewhere.

For me, the main meat of the story was the game plot itself.  Romance is a sweet side trip, for me no less important because who shares your journey with you is an important factor, but not game breaking.  I played and enjoyed the companions in Awakenings, none of whom are romanceable.

And I was very happy however my warden ended up.  Dead, Mistress to the king, Queen, King.  I loved all the endings of DAO and appreciated them.  In the end, happiness is a personal thing.  Regardless of what happens to the warden, she/he stopped the Blight, and any hero worth his chops can take great pleasure in saving their friends, their family, even total strangers. I am sorry the OP felt gypped by the game's situations, but I certainly didn't. 

If you are looking for storybook 'happily ever after' without putting in any effort to view the endings in such a way, you are going to be disappointed.  Yes, the warden is tainted, and will die young, have nightmares most of the rest of her life and probably never have kids, and potentially can die ending the Blight, but all my wardens came to see, "It isn't how long you have, it's what you do with the time you have that matters."

I....agree with you, but why did you quote me? I said I agree with what Gaider said in both posts, and that it wasn't true that the DAO LI dumped the Warden (with the exception of Morrigan). And bittersweet endings are my favourite type of ending, so I'm more than fine with DAO's endings.

Modifié par hhh89, 07 novembre 2012 - 05:13 .

[Althix]

personal happiness? hmm killed a badass dragon, survived, killed the architech, killed the mother. looks like win win win win situation for me.
and yes i am happy - my armor painted red by the blood of my enemies. tastes like victory.
Only in death does Duty ends.

[sylvanaerie]

Sorry hhh89... my posts tend to get away with me. I originally responded to the 'letter' thing saying, my LI's didn't dump my warden either and then I kinda segued off into more of a response toward the OP after that paragraph. I wasn't disagreeing with you or anything.