216 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

There's a difference between murdering someone and not having sex with their mother.

edit:  This is in regards the Rachni/Old God Baby comparison, not a bizarre non-sequitur.

Modifié par Wulfram, 09 novembre 2012 - 12:50 .

[ZtalkerRM]

After reading through the comments and especially the stuff about the Rachni queen, I think we can come to a conclusion...

In order for our PC (and thereby us, the player) to be happy, we need as much choice (or variables) as possible.

Wether it's choices made throughout the game (rachni queen, werewolves/elves etc) leading to a fitting ending, or last-minute choices (god-baby, who kills the demon: Loghain, or wardens?) doesn't matter. The reason why most players didn't like ME3 or the DA2 ending where the limitid or even absent choices. DA:O didn't have a flashy ending, it were mainly some stills. But they did show our choices. That was awesome.

Maybe you guys at Bioware should make a playthrough of Alpha Procotol.It has a revolutionary way of weaving all the player choices through the story, regardless of the order in which players complete the 'hubs.' NPC's will respond and speak to you differently, every single playthrough. The game's gameplay isn't perfect, but for story-loving players, it's an awesome experience.

For example (in a DA way), if you complete Orzammar before the elves, some elves will remark about some activity below the earth and how they can now trade (or be shoed away) there. Depending on how that situation finishes, the mages will ask you about how Orzammar is and if you have info about the werewolf curse.
Next playthrough, completing the mages first, will earn you some curiosity from the elves about how different their magic is to theirs.

[Chipaway111]

I think this conversations dead but there was something I wanted to add. DA:O completely warmed me to the idea of bittersweetness, especially in romance.

My favourite pc out of them all (and there's a lot) is my Amell mage, she sacrificed Alistair, her happiness, and some close friends, to end the blight and I loved every second of her story and it certainly did not end on a cheery note. At all. So I really don't mind if there isn't a sunset ending, part of me tends to find them too plastic (?) to get any real sense of happiness from it.

Actually, I just want sacrifices.

[sylvanaerie]

Shoot, all this thread did for me was make me realize how much I miss playing Origins and decided to start up another game.

[Mike_Neel]

I prefer happy endings myself. Mostly because so few games go that way anymore. Most game writers these days seem to prefer bleak endings or bitter endings with less of the sweet. Most games seems to prefer the heroic sacrifice, whether it's the PC or main NPC that does so.

Maybe being cooped up all day in a game studio forced to write to a mostly hostile audience does that. Who knows. But very few writers tend to go happy ending smiles and high fives ending anymore. I honestly don't find the bad or bitter endings to be that much more compelling or deep. I wouldn't say an ending where the PC looks sad then jumps on the doomsday device sacrificing himself any more impacting then say, throwing the boss into it and walking away with a good end smile. Even the games that don't kill the PC off at the end probably would if they could, they just don't so they can get another proper sequel out instead of having to do a spin off. What is going on with you writers and your lives man, where you'd rather see sadness instead of high fives and champagne at the end?

Maybe 10 years ago it was new and cool to do those endings, but now it just seems artificial to me. Like a blatant attempt to pull at the emotional heart strings and say "Look. This is sad. See how deep our writing is?" I mean don't get me wrong. I'm not 100% against bad endings or characters having to sacrifice. I just think video game writers have forgotten that good endings are acceptable and can be just as compelling, deep, and emotional as a bitter ending. Like Uncharted 2. It had it's sad moment but at the end the guy gets the gal, they have their moment, and you feel good about the game, the characters, and yourself because part of you helped make that happen by playing the game. Games these days, especially anything with a big ol M+ on the cover, are just too damn bleak these days. If you're going to do bad or bitter do it right, and with good reason. Like Red Dead Redemption. Severl of the themes of the game are "Can we be redeemed. Can we be forgiven. Can we leave our past in the past." At the end if you've played it all of those themes bear fruit and it's emotional but in a believable way that doesn't come off as artificial.

I'll end this rant/wall of too long wont read by saying I didn't think DAO or DAII had bitter or bad endings, at least not for the PC him/herself. They were open ended, and while that's a whole nother can of worms of "did or did it not give you closure". I'd say when it comes to RPGs I'd actually rather see an open ended ending because it's too hard to give a definitive end to such a diverse type of character. Let the player fill in the gaps of whether or not the PC saved the world and found a family or wondered off into the sunset or whatever.

[Felya87]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Shoot, all this thread did for me was make me realize how much I miss playing Origins and decided to start up another game.

that. and destroyed all the auto ipnotization I did to not think about how much DA2 is inferior to DA:O...sometimes, it doesn't matter having the thing that one prefer. is having the chance to choose that thing that make is great.
ending happy/sad is one of those things.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Wulfram wrote...

There's a difference between murdering someone and not having sex with their mother.

edit:  This is in regards the Rachni/Old God Baby comparison, not a bizarre non-sequitur.

Eh? Sex with who's mother?

[sylvanaerie]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

There's a difference between murdering someone and not having sex with their mother.

edit:  This is in regards the Rachni/Old God Baby comparison, not a bizarre non-sequitur.

Eh? Sex with who's mother?

OGB's mom (Morrigan)

[Josh3598]

I thought that becoming a Paragon was a nice ending...

[RedWulfi]

Just make Ali a warden and he'll be with you no matter your race!
Problem solves!

[noxpanda]

AndersIsLush wrote...

Just make Ali a warden and he'll be with you no matter your race!
Problem solves!

Lol yep! When he told me he didnt want to be king and then i spoke to anora and it was clear she wanted to be queen, i went 'ahar, problem solved!'.
Anora is queen, Loghain is dead, Morrigan got her baby (didnt mind that at all, she was friends with my warden and it will be interesting to see what comes of it), my dwarfy warden and alistair sauntered off into the sunset (or ya know to the nearest warden keep to plot on how to kill more darkspawn). Everybody is happy! Well except everyone who died...

[Felya87]

noxpanda wrote...

AndersIsLush wrote...

Just make Ali a warden and he'll be with you no matter your race!
Problem solves!

Lol yep! When he told me he didnt want to be king and then i spoke to anora and it was clear she wanted to be queen, i went 'ahar, problem solved!'.
Anora is queen, Loghain is dead, Morrigan got her baby (didnt mind that at all, she was friends with my warden and it will be interesting to see what comes of it), my dwarfy warden and alistair sauntered off into the sunset (or ya know to the nearest warden keep to plot on how to kill more darkspawn). Everybody is happy! Well except everyone who died...

same here! the only unhappy is Loghaine R.I.P. and the Archdemon...and Eamon...but because I thinked he would have used Alistair as a puppet...just my impression...maybe he would not have made it with bad intention, he would have "used well" Alistair...but still, I could't take that out of my mind...

[brushyourteeth]

When we talk about "personal happiness" are we basically just talking about riding off into the sunset with our object of desire?

Because I'm pretty sure there are other things I'd honestly choose to accomplish with my life above and beyond scoring a boyfriend and keeping him.

Earning some dang respect for the casteless, for one thing, would have been a lot more important to my Brosca Warden than being Alistair's lady. If she'd had to choose one, Alistair would have been out of her head in a heartbeat.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Well, something interesting coming out of it is a good reason for the player, but for the PC? Nope.
You might as well play russian roulette "because it's interesting".

Eh not really, only really 2 outcomes to a game of russian roulette and neither are particularly interesting or unexpected.

[Asch Lavigne]

I think "personal happiness" is defined by the player.

For example, after beating the Archdemon my Warden was sad to see Morrigan go and wanted to go after her. Unfortunately he got roped into the whole Architect thing, but once that was all done he was quite happy to be rid of darkspawn (for now at least) and then finally have a chance to track down Morrigan. While I personally hated how it ended (cliffhanger!!!!!) he got to go off with his love so I consider him to be happy.

[legbamel]

ReconTeam wrote...
How about we combine the best of both worlds? Everything seems to have gone perfectly, there is a wedding scene where you marry your waifu, you choose a house and decorate it, you have all of your party members over for dinner and have a great time. Then the templars or mages show up, break all of your limbs and the PC watches in horror as everything and everybody they've ever loved is destroyed. Then they toss the PC from the top of a tower or something and the screen goes black right before the PC hits the ground. Play credits.

But in one scene there will be some lyrium, so players can headcanon a lyrium theory where the whole dying horribly part was all a dream caused by lyrium overdose.

Everybody wins.

They'll call it the Lyrium Delirium theory.  There will be banners and threads and cupcake marches!  It will be glorious!