130 réponses à ce sujet

[Mark of the Dragon]

guardian_titan wrote...

My Cousland Warden married Alistair so I'd be thrilled if she showed up in a cameo with him.  My Amell Warden got ditched by Alistair because I saved Loghain's life.  Alistair became king but my Amell ended up alone.  I can see her showing up solo possibly lamenting what could've been.  Since the Warden is mentioned to be MIA at the end of DA2, makes sense for our Warden to show up solo.  Them being with anyone else makes no sense because no one else is mentioned to have gone missing with them and most of the DAO companions are accounted for during DA2.  Not a single one mentions being with the Warden during their cameo so makes no sense for them to vanish with the Warden.  It's not unlikely Warden business resulted in the Warden becoming separated from their love interest over time.  Constant expeditions into the Deep Roads chasing darkspawn isn't very romantic.  The taint, the Calling, and a desire for a life that doesn't have darkspawn in it on a daily basis likely played a role in the two separating over time as well.

Both of my Hawkes ran off.with Anders at the end of DA2.  My second Hawke had a fling with Isabela but ditched her for Anders shortly after.  My first Hawke tried to go for Fenris first before ditching him for Anders, but it didn't work out.  I'd much rather have my Hawke show up with her crazy mage boyfriend than with Isabela.  If she showed up with Isabela (or Fenris or Merrill), I'd be pissed.
I dont think that is what people were saying. MAybe I am wrong though. I think the point is that no LI should show up without Hawke, since like you said, they dissappeared with him/her

It makes more sense to request that Hawke appears with their love interest since Varric mentions at the end of DA2 that they all went their separate ways except for Hawke and their partner.  Since Hawke went MIA and was with their partner at the time, it makes sense the two vanished together.  I can see there being set cameos for each DA2 love interest where Hawke can appear as well if that companion was the one romanced.  If Hawke romanced no one, then they either wouldn't appear at all or perhaps has a solo cameo.

Requesting for Hawke to appear alongside a specific companion completely ignores everyone else's canon.  My canon is different from your canon which is different from the next person's.  You have to remember your canon is no more official than anyone else's (outside of Bioware) so thus making a request that throws everyone else's choices under the bus isn't a fair request to make.  Broaden the request and think of other people rather than being selfish and thinking only of yourself.

I dont think thats what was being said but I could be wrong. I think the point was that no LI should appear without Hawke since, like you said, they disappeared with him/her.

Modifié par Mark of the Dragon, 13 décembre 2012 - 01:21 .

[Sharn01]

BubbleDncr wrote...

Hawke disappeared. Doesn't mean hisher love interest disappeared with himher. Isabella could show up in the process of looking for Hawke.

That said, even without that, it makes perfect sense for her to show up in majority of my playthroughs without Hawke.

Nah, Hawke is just in another one of those three year coma's, will wake up eventually.

[wright1978]

Psycho_Kenshin wrote...

I'm a fan of Isabela and I see fans would like her to be in this game at least as a cameo. And while I agree, they may have painted themselves in a corner here. If they aren't going to show Hawke or the Warden in part 3, which has been the pattern. Isabela growing a bit and being with Hawke for me is key. If they just break them up to have her in the game solo a third time, that'd be weak storytelling.

If they don't want to show Hawke, it'll be tough to show Isabela without messing with that. I can understand that Leliana broke up with the Warden for example I guess, but having it happen two games in a row would not be good. And it'd really feel like they aren't letting characters grow or enter real relationships.

This is a bigger topic in general, how to handle the import things well, but just pointing out solo Isabela in part 3 would be bad, in my opinion.

Agree completely i'd prefer not to see Isabela if they aren't going to show her with my Hawke.

[milena87]

Thedas is a huge world, how in the hell are the same people appearing exactly in the place we're visiting?
I wouldn't like to see cameos that serve no purpose to the story. I actually prefer no mention of previous companions/characters if the save import feature stays.

[David Gaider]

Psycho_Kenshin wrote...
I'm a fan of Isabela and I see fans would like her to be in this game at least as a cameo. And while I agree, they may have painted themselves in a corner here. If they aren't going to show Hawke or the Warden in part 3, which has been the pattern. Isabela growing a bit and being with Hawke for me is key. If they just break them up to have her in the game solo a third time, that'd be weak storytelling.

If they don't want to show Hawke, it'll be tough to show Isabela without messing with that. I can understand that Leliana broke up with the Warden for example I guess, but having it happen two games in a row would not be good. And it'd really feel like they aren't letting characters grow or enter real relationships.

This is a bigger topic in general, how to handle the import things well, but just pointing out solo Isabela in part 3 would be bad, in my opinion.

Let me break it to you now: any character that is now an NPC is definitely no longer under your control. This doesn't mean we intend to have them deliberately running amok and doing things just to upset their former players-- but it does mean you don't get to make decisions for them any longer. It's entirely possible they'll do things you didn't imagine them doing, and this applies extra when it comes to NPC's which were also NPC's in previous games (such as Leliana and Isabela).

I'm sure someone will take this as confirmation of us setting out to violate everyone's head canon en masse, which is simply not the case... but we are not responsible for your head canon. The story moves on and things change, and if it possibly not matching up with what you have in your head is "weak storytelling" to you, then so be it. That might very well happen.

Duly warned be thee, says I.

Modifié par David Gaider, 13 décembre 2012 - 04:04 .

[randomcheeses]

Personally I don't mind if Isabela/Leliana/Whoever shows up without Hawke/Warden/whoever as long as the former isn't a LI for the new protagonist. People in love don't immediately get permanently shackled to their significant other, after all, so Isabela or whoever showing up without Hawke (or whoever) doesn't necessarily mean Hawke's been permanently dumped or betrayed. It just means Hawke and Isabela are temporarily apart. Probably because they have important stuff to do that necessitates a temporary separation.

Modifié par randomcheeses, 13 décembre 2012 - 04:46 .

[LinksOcarina]

Funny, I have a few playthroughs where she either runs away for good or is given to the Qunari.

[The Elder King]

David Gaider wrote...



Let me break it to you now: any character that is now an NPC is definitely no longer under your control. This doesn't mean we intend to have them deliberately running amok and doing things just to upset their former players-- but it does mean you don't get to make decisions for them any longer. It's entirely possible they'll do things you didn't imagine them doing, and this applies extra when it comes to NPC's which were also NPC's in previous games (such as Leliana and Isabela).

I'm sure someone will take this as confirmation of us setting out to violate everyone's head canon en masse, which is simply not the case... but we are not responsible for your head canon. The story moves on and things change, and if it possibly not matching up with what you have in your head is "weak storytelling" to you, then so be it. That might very well happen.

Duly warned be thee, says I.

I'm fine with this. I didn't particulary care about Leliana and the Warden being separated. I was fine with Leliana recognizing her feelings for the Warden.
Either way, unless you make Isabela saying that she hates Hawke, or making her married with someone, I could headcanon that she's still in a relationship with Hakwe.
I'm more worried about having previous NPC in DA3 with pointless cameos than their relationship status with Hawke. I'd prefer them to return in a meaningful way, if they have to return, and not in a little cameo, since it'd have nothing to the story (not that I hate cameos, since I like seeing Leliana, Alistair and Zevran again. It's just that I'd prefer a longer role than a cameo, if they have to return).

[CuriousArtemis]

David Gaider wrote...

Let me break it to you now: any character that is now an NPC is definitely no longer under your control. This doesn't mean we intend to have them deliberately running amok and doing things just to upset their former players-- but it does mean you don't get to make decisions for them any longer. It's entirely possible they'll do things you didn't imagine them doing, and this applies extra when it comes to NPC's which were also NPC's in previous games (such as Leliana and Isabela).

I'm sure someone will take this as confirmation of us setting out to violate everyone's head canon en masse, which is simply not the case... but we are not responsible for your head canon. The story moves on and things change, and if it possibly not matching up with what you have in your head is "weak storytelling" to you, then so be it. That might very well happen.

Duly warned be thee, says I.

aww, That's rather harsh, I must say. You really can't fault people for falling in love with the beautiful characters and romances you guys have created. 

I'm sort of glad I romanced Fenris since he doesn't seem to have much impact on the story at all, so he and Hawke can go off to live happily ever after lol 

I think a little part of me would die inside if Fenris showed up in DA3 with absolutely zero mention of Hawke 

[darrylzero]

I find this concern a little odd, to be honest. Isabela does not strike as someone who would ever stop having her own adventures just because she's in a committed relationship. Leliana maybe, but Isabela?

Anyway, I think the bigger problem is the mysteriously missing former protagonist. I sympathize with the writers here, because I think there's a really tricky issue they're confronting, but I hope Hawke's absence has a little more texture to it.

[Brockololly]

David Gaider wrote...
Let me break it to you now: any character that is now an NPC is definitely no longer under your control. This doesn't mean we intend to have them deliberately running amok and doing things just to upset their former players-- but it does mean you don't get to make decisions for them any longer. It's entirely possible they'll do things you didn't imagine them doing, and this applies extra when it comes to NPC's which were also NPC's in previous games (such as Leliana and Isabela).

That's all fine but I think if an old NPC comes back it would be nice that if they were affected in some way by an old player character, that aspect comes across to the player. Or that the mere presence of an old NPC that was possibly  a romance character feels worthwhile in the new game and not simply them showing up for the sake of a fourth wall breaking cameo. Only have them in the game if they REALLY need to be in the game. Even with DA2, it already felt like the world of Dragon Age was starting to develop into a "Small World" scenario, especially since we were playing as a new player character with Hawke.

David Gaider wrote...
I'm sure someone will take this as confirmation of us setting out to  violate everyone's head canon en masse, which is simply not the case...  but we are not responsible for your head canon. The story moves on and  things change, and if it possibly not matching up with what you have in  your head is "weak storytelling" to you, then so be it. That might very  well happen.

But you guys are responsible for the ending states we left our old PCs and possible romance interests in. So as a player it would be nice if an old love interest character showed up sans the old player character, that the old love interest's new appearance/story role wasn't completely out of left field based on the player's knowledge of where they last left off with them.

That's what I felt with Anders from Awakening to DA2,  where his big character development all happened off screen and thus his reappearance in DA2 to me, the player, felt wildly jarring based on where I last left him in Awakening. At least if he was going to undergo those character changes (more dour, possessed by Justice), it would have been nice to have his initial appearance more familiar to his Awakening version and then show that transition more on screen.

Even more so with an old love interest that can be closely tied to an old PC, any possible new appearance, interacting with a new PC would need to feel appropriate to the player based on where the player last saw them in Origins, DA2 or wherever. Sure, you could have them radically changed off screen from Game 1 to Game 2 but I'd rather see more of that kind of character development on screen, should it happen at all. And then ideally have some plausible reason why the old PC isn't around that doesn't feel like a total cop out.

This sort of thing isn't "head canon" but should be another form of choices and consequences based on the player's actions, resulting in some genuine reactivity.

darrylzero wrote...
Anyway, I think the  bigger problem is the mysteriously missing former protagonist. I  sympathize with the writers here, because I think there's a really  tricky issue they're confronting, but I hope Hawke's absence has a  little more texture to it.

Its really an easy issue as they can come up with countless reasons why some old PC might be missing or vanished or killed off screen or occupid somewhere else. Problem is, thats not really satisfying to the player- especially given how Hawke and the Warden have both basically "vanished" off screen.

You'd think this could be partially remedied by allowing the player to temporarily control an old PC if needed for the story but apparently thats been shot down as a possibility.

Modifié par Brockololly, 13 décembre 2012 - 06:46 .

[Sir George Parr]

darrylzero wrote...

I find this concern a little odd, to be honest. Isabela does not strike as someone who would ever stop having her own adventures just because she's in a committed relationship. Leliana maybe, but Isabela?

Anyway, I think the bigger problem is the mysteriously missing former protagonist. I sympathize with the writers here, because I think there's a really tricky issue they're confronting, but I hope Hawke's absence has a little more texture to it.

I want something with a bit more traction and depth with regards to the missing former protagonist. I have now hit the 12 month mark with Lady Hawke. Call me old fashioned, but in 25 years of playing these games i have nether wanted to see a character have more of a happy ending than Lady Hawke. She is such a hard character to let go of, that is the affect of the VA and allowing her to develop a personality.My OTP in DA 2 was Lady Hawke and Isabela, so it will be strange to see one half of the greatest same sex couple that i have had the pleasure of spending time with in any game without the other half.Just something i am going to come to terms with.

[Rawgrim]

David Gaider wrote...

Psycho_Kenshin wrote...
I'm a fan of Isabela and I see fans would like her to be in this game at least as a cameo. And while I agree, they may have painted themselves in a corner here. If they aren't going to show Hawke or the Warden in part 3, which has been the pattern. Isabela growing a bit and being with Hawke for me is key. If they just break them up to have her in the game solo a third time, that'd be weak storytelling.

If they don't want to show Hawke, it'll be tough to show Isabela without messing with that. I can understand that Leliana broke up with the Warden for example I guess, but having it happen two games in a row would not be good. And it'd really feel like they aren't letting characters grow or enter real relationships.

This is a bigger topic in general, how to handle the import things well, but just pointing out solo Isabela in part 3 would be bad, in my opinion.

Let me break it to you now: any character that is now an NPC is definitely no longer under your control. This doesn't mean we intend to have them deliberately running amok and doing things just to upset their former players-- but it does mean you don't get to make decisions for them any longer. It's entirely possible they'll do things you didn't imagine them doing, and this applies extra when it comes to NPC's which were also NPC's in previous games (such as Leliana and Isabela).

I'm sure someone will take this as confirmation of us setting out to violate everyone's head canon en masse, which is simply not the case... but we are not responsible for your head canon. The story moves on and things change, and if it possibly not matching up with what you have in your head is "weak storytelling" to you, then so be it. That might very well happen.

Duly warned be thee, says I.

So in other words the players are just "borrowing" characters from Bioware, and not really creating our own character at all?

[Boss Fog]

Rawgrim wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Psycho_Kenshin wrote...
I'm a fan of Isabela and I see fans would like her to be in this game at least as a cameo. And while I agree, they may have painted themselves in a corner here. If they aren't going to show Hawke or the Warden in part 3, which has been the pattern. Isabela growing a bit and being with Hawke for me is key. If they just break them up to have her in the game solo a third time, that'd be weak storytelling.

If they don't want to show Hawke, it'll be tough to show Isabela without messing with that. I can understand that Leliana broke up with the Warden for example I guess, but having it happen two games in a row would not be good. And it'd really feel like they aren't letting characters grow or enter real relationships.

This is a bigger topic in general, how to handle the import things well, but just pointing out solo Isabela in part 3 would be bad, in my opinion.

Let me break it to you now: any character that is now an NPC is definitely no longer under your control. This doesn't mean we intend to have them deliberately running amok and doing things just to upset their former players-- but it does mean you don't get to make decisions for them any longer. It's entirely possible they'll do things you didn't imagine them doing, and this applies extra when it comes to NPC's which were also NPC's in previous games (such as Leliana and Isabela).

I'm sure someone will take this as confirmation of us setting out to violate everyone's head canon en masse, which is simply not the case... but we are not responsible for your head canon. The story moves on and things change, and if it possibly not matching up with what you have in your head is "weak storytelling" to you, then so be it. That might very well happen.

Duly warned be thee, says I.

So in other words the players are just "borrowing" characters from Bioware, and not really creating our own character at all?

Yes, we get to borrow companion NPCs for the majority of the games in regards to simply having them in our party.  What he just said has nothing to do with the PC except for the fact that the LI might not be with their respective partner depending on how the story goes after the game ends.  What he just said and what you think he just said do not correlate in any way.

[frankf43]

I was shocked and saddened that after all the time I spent deprogramming Lelianna from the Chantry indoctrination that as soon as my back was turned she turns back up working for the Chantry.

Sad; so very sad. But such is life.

[Wulfram]

Hardening never stopped Leliana from loving the Chantry.

[LinksOcarina]

Wulfram wrote...

Hardening never stopped Leliana from loving the Chantry.

Who is to say she didn't though? Working for them vs working againt them may be two different things. We have no idea what Leliana is thinking now, other than the fact that she is a Seeker who is looking for two people. 

[llandwynwyn]

David Gaider wrote...
Duly warned be thee, says I.

[frankf43]

Wulfram wrote...

Hardening never stopped Leliana from loving the Chantry.

Not in my head cannon she didn't

[Twisted Path]

I just wish they would expand the cast of characters instead of endlessly recycling old ones. All these familiar characters just happening to show up wherever the new story takes place and happening to be interconnected is the stuff of super hero comics, not epic fantasy.

Less cameos, more new characters!

[LolaLei]

I never took Leliana's outburst to mean she and the Warden had split up (if you romanced her). Maybe she was just keeping things quiet because she didn't want a bunch of random people knowing her business, or she doesn't know where the Warden disappeared to so she's worried that he/she is dead? Who knows lol.

[TEWR]

David Gaider wrote...

I'm sure someone will take this as confirmation of us setting out to violate everyone's head canon en masse, which is simply not the case... but we are not responsible for your head canon. The story moves on and things change, and if it possibly not matching up with what you have in your head is "weak storytelling" to you, then so be it. That might very well happen.

While I don't think you'd do something so malicious -- not even you are that malicious, I would think =P -- I do hope Xanthos Aeducan would not be reduced to... well... something that he isn't.

But even so, I could always just write a fanfic detailing how he'd do something since he was my character. If you make him do A when he would've done B, I'll just have him do B in a fanfic and see how that would play out by writing an alternate scenario.

Simple as that. If you violate my headcanon in some major way then I'll take control of my character in the way that I can. If you don't, then cool.

[Zardoc]

Wulfram wrote...

Hardening never stopped Leliana from loving the Chantry.

There is a difference between loving the Maker and loving the Chantry. A hardened Leliana is at best doing the former.

Modifié par Zardoc, 14 décembre 2012 - 06:56 .

[Kulyok]

I am not sure I agree with "it's out of your hands now, live with it" philosophy. Like many others, I fall in love with romanceable characters, and I believe it's cruel to show the players the sour, bitter endings for their love stories, especially if the previous games showed the good finale already.

Just look at this: Leliana probably broke up with a Warden mage; Zevran, Warden's lover, showed in DA2 and had sex with Isabela(and not a single beta tester found the bug? how come?); Alistair said his infamous "ball and chain" piece about his (beloved? really?) wife; and now I'm starting to suspect that we may see similar things in DA3 cameos.

Is it really worth it? It's just a few characters, and Isabela or Fenris is no King and Queen of Ferelden - why isn't it better just to leave these characters in the players's head canons and move on? It's a vast, vast universe. Why not give the fans a small guarantee: say that their romances won't be messed up in future games? It's not as we want the darkspawn, templars, mages and Dalish elves to make up, after all.

[Wulfram]

Zardoc wrote...

There is a difference between loving the Maker and loving the Chantry. A hardened Leliana is at best doing the former.

Leliana loves both.  The Chantry is what took her in and "saved" her.

She would appear to disagree with the Chantry on many points, but I can't see her ever not loving it after that.