130 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Honestly I rather not see anyone from DA2 bar Varric. (He can always pop up :3 ) Time for new people please!

[David Gaider]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
While I don't think you'd do something so malicious -- not even you are that malicious, I would think =P -- I do hope Xanthos Aeducan would not be reduced to... well... something that he isn't.

But even so, I could always just write a fanfic detailing how he'd do something since he was my character. If you make him do A when he would've done B, I'll just have him do B in a fanfic and see how that would play out by writing an alternate scenario.

Simple as that. If you violate my headcanon in some major way then I'll take control of my character in the way that I can. If you don't, then cool.

Of course. That's what fanfiction is for, really, isn't it?

And naturally we wouldn't do anything malicious. We're aware that people are sensitive about their player characters (and their romances in particular), so we're not going to have things like break-ups just for the hell of it... in fact, whenever possible we'll likely leave it open to interpretation. When that's not possible, we'll have reactivity... but reactivity does not necessarily lead to "that character does exactly what I imagine they did after the game". This is doubly true for NPC's-- they will make decisions and continue their stories, which may not align with what you thought would happen but do indeed work just fine for us the people who created those characters in the first place (I find it particularly interesting how some people seem to think a hardened Leliana would never serve a reformist Divine, because I assure you she would).

But I suppose this is nothing new to any sequel that didn't just jump to an entirely new location/time and new set of characters. We'll just roll with it as it comes. My only intention here was to inform those people who are indeed in that "if my PC or beloved NPC's do anything that violates my headcanon I will be upset" camp to prepare to be upset.

[Direwolf0294]

I imagine it's been repeated multiple times in this thread, and I'm too lazy to read the whole thread to find out (give me a break, it's 3 in the morning), but in my story the Warden is dead, so I like to imagine Leliana has moved on with her life and is sustained by the knowledge she'll be reunited with the Warden again, as eluded to in the DA:O epilogue, and Isabela ran away at the end of act 2 in the only DA2 save I've got where I've completed the full game and which will probably be the save I transfer over to DA3, so I'd very much like her to make an appearance or at least be mention in DA3 as I'm interested to know what she did after she abandoned Hawke in Kirkwall.

[frankf43]

so the new catchphrases for DA:I are.

Duly warned be thee, says I.
and
Prepare to be upset.

Gotcha.

I must admit I was more upset when Leandra died than when Lelianna turned up working for the Chantry with out the Warden. I replayed it about five times until I realised that nothingf I did could have changed the outcome. At least this eased some of the guilt.



As long as we have a great game where I'm missing sleep because I can't put it down I can stomach a few heartaches.

[frankf43]

my bad

Modifié par frankf43, 14 décembre 2012 - 04:29 .

[Mark of the Dragon]

I honestly dont care about the head cannon not matching with actions of the NPC. I just care that such chooses are treated with respect. I liked how Leliana was handled. I could still roleplay being with the Warden or at least still having feelings for him.
My point was if Isabela comes back in DA3 sleeping with everyone then that is a slap in gamers faces who romanced Isabela. If they didnt sure let her sleep around if they did romance her...don't.
It also adds replayability to old games if there descisions make small differences in the NPC's attitudes. It makes it seem like there past experiences( with Hawke in this case) mattered.
That was an example so I hope my point came across. Im not great at explaining things.

[David Gaider]

Mark of the Dragon wrote...
My point was if Isabela comes back in DA3 sleeping with everyone then that is a slap in gamers faces who romanced Isabela. If they didnt sure let her sleep around if they did romance her...don't.

If Zevran romanced the DAO PC he didn't sleep with anyone in DA2. Why do you picture it being so different for Isabela?

frankf43 wrote...

so the new catchphrases for DA:I are.

Duly warned be thee, says I.
and
Prepare to be upset.

Gotcha.

Have to admit, it's this kind of thing that makes me wonder whether I should really be coming here to say anything at all. Perhaps I should not. Something to consider, I guess.

Modifié par David Gaider, 14 décembre 2012 - 05:07 .

[frankf43]

David Gaider wrote...

Mark of the Dragon wrote...
My point was if Isabela comes back in DA3 sleeping with everyone then that is a slap in gamers faces who romanced Isabela. If they didnt sure let her sleep around if they did romance her...don't.

If Zevran romanced the DAO PC he didn't sleep with anyone in DA2. Why do you picture it being so different for Isabela?

frankf43 wrote...

so the new catchphrases for DA:I are.

Duly warned be thee, says I.
and
Prepare to be upset.

Gotcha.

Have to admit, it's this kind of thing that makes me wonder whether I should really be coming here to say anything at all. Perhaps I should not. Something to consider, I guess.

 
I was only joking I love both of the games and like your involvement in the Forum. The two lines just struck my weird sense of humor.

I hope my atempt at a joke doesn't stop your honest coments about the coming game as I really do apreciate them.

[mousestalker]

Inasmuch as Isabella is herosexual, it would make sense if she moves on to the new PC. That's just how she rolls.

Modifié par mousestalker, 14 décembre 2012 - 05:31 .

[Harle Cerulean]

David Gaider wrote...

Mark of the Dragon wrote...
My point was if Isabela comes back in DA3 sleeping with everyone then that is a slap in gamers faces who romanced Isabela. If they didnt sure let her sleep around if they did romance her...don't.

If Zevran romanced the DAO PC he didn't sleep with anyone in DA2. Why do you picture it being so different for Isabela?

Actually, he did.  Due to import bugs, the only time he didn't offer to sleep with Hawke or Isabela is if he romanced the Warden and the Warden died slaying the Archdemon.  Which, yes, was a bug, but it's also a bug that, to my knowledge, was never patched, because the import bugs were considered to be bugs on DA:O's part, not DA2's part.  Hopefully future imports will lack bugs, but regardless, your example doesn't work, because yes, romanced Zevran does sleep with people in DA2.

[David Gaider]

Harle Cerulean wrote...
Actually, he did.  Due to import bugs, the only time he didn't offer to sleep with Hawke or Isabela is if he romanced the Warden and the Warden died slaying the Archdemon.  Which, yes, was a bug, but it's also a bug that, to my knowledge, was never patched, because the import bugs were considered to be bugs on DA:O's part, not DA2's part.  Hopefully future imports will lack bugs, but regardless, your example doesn't work, because yes, romanced Zevran does sleep with people in DA2.

*hands*

Then, yes. If we used Isabela in a similar capacity as Zevran's cameo in DA2 and if there was an import bug that didn't recognize her romance with the DA2 PC, then by all means she would sleep with someone.

I'm not sure how you would expect the writers to account for that. Don't have bugs? Well, OK then. We'll get right on that.

[upsettingshorts]

Seriously, if you know it's a bug and you still complain and don't just ignore it or don't take that option then that's your problem.

Is the argument genuinely that unfixed bugs equal canon? 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 14 décembre 2012 - 06:21 .

[Harle Cerulean]

David Gaider wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...
Actually, he did.  Due to import bugs, the only time he didn't offer to sleep with Hawke or Isabela is if he romanced the Warden and the Warden died slaying the Archdemon.  Which, yes, was a bug, but it's also a bug that, to my knowledge, was never patched, because the import bugs were considered to be bugs on DA:O's part, not DA2's part.  Hopefully future imports will lack bugs, but regardless, your example doesn't work, because yes, romanced Zevran does sleep with people in DA2.

*hands*

Then, yes. If we used Isabela in a similar capacity as Zevran's cameo in DA2 and if there was an import bug that didn't recognize her romance with the DA2 PC, then by all means she would sleep with someone.

I'm not sure how you would expect the writers to account for that. Don't have bugs? Well, OK then. We'll get right on that.

I'm not saying that Isabela shouldn't be used, or that the Zevran bug was the writers' fault!  Just pointing out that it's a bad example that will reassure no one, and if someone wasn't aware that a romanced Zevran's offer to sleep with Hawke or Isabela was bug, they would wonder what you were even talking about.  I was happy to see Zevran regardless, and I'd be happy to see Isabela. 

(I did find it slightly ironic that the only time he won't sleep with Hawke is when his lover's been dead for six years, mind.  Also, painful.  That scene made me cry, I'll have you know!)

Modifié par Harle Cerulean, 14 décembre 2012 - 06:25 .

[devSin]

As long as you're not capriciously breaking up romantic couples (Mike said "no cheating" a while back, so I assume it's something you guys try to avoid), I think it's fine that the characters develop beyond the protagonist of the last game.

I'll be surprised if it's something people are as sensitive to after DA2, since it didn't have Origins' epilogue sequence (which was perhaps a bit too prescriptive). I want to see what everybody is up to, even if Hawke had to stay behind for some reason, especially since we really have no clues beyond the adventures of Isabela and Varric.

I just don't want it to be a case where Hawke is out of the picture entirely, for a previous romance partner.

David Gaider wrote...

Have to admit, it's this kind of thing that makes me wonder whether I should really be coming here to say anything at all. Perhaps I should not. Something to consider, I guess.

"Oh, internet celebrity is so hard!" Boo. Hoo.

Suck it up. :-)

Modifié par devSin, 14 décembre 2012 - 06:36 .

[Wulfram]

Characterisation of the PC, as established in the game through dialogue and choices, isn't just headcanon.

Not that anything has been said that necessarily conflicts with that

[frankf43]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...
Actually, he did.  Due to import bugs, the only time he didn't offer to sleep with Hawke or Isabela is if he romanced the Warden and the Warden died slaying the Archdemon.  Which, yes, was a bug, but it's also a bug that, to my knowledge, was never patched, because the import bugs were considered to be bugs on DA:O's part, not DA2's part.  Hopefully future imports will lack bugs, but regardless, your example doesn't work, because yes, romanced Zevran does sleep with people in DA2.

*hands*

Then, yes. If we used Isabela in a similar capacity as Zevran's cameo in DA2 and if there was an import bug that didn't recognize her romance with the DA2 PC, then by all means she would sleep with someone.

I'm not sure how you would expect the writers to account for that. Don't have bugs? Well, OK then. We'll get right on that.

I'm not saying that Isabela shouldn't be used, or that the Zevran bug was the writers' fault!  Just pointing out that it's a bad example that will reassure no one, and if someone wasn't aware that a romanced Zevran's offer to sleep with Hawke or Isabela was bug, they would wonder what you were even talking about.  I was happy to see Zevran regardless, and I'd be happy to see Isabela. 

(I did find it slightly ironic that the only time he won't sleep with Hawke is when his lover's been dead for six years, mind.  Also, painful.  That scene made me cry, I'll have you know!)

I too would welcome Isabella back with or without My Hawke.
 
She changed a lot between Act 1 and the end of Act 3.There was a lot of growth in the character. I was glad that I chose to Romance her and helped that growth along by my hands off support and acceptance. It was one of the better Romances in the game in MHO.
 
I would like to see how the team move that growth on in the next game if she is a character they decide to make use of.

[WhiteKnyght]

David Gaider wrote...
 (I find it particularly interesting how some people seem to think a hardened Leliana would never serve a reformist Divine, because I assure you she would).

I don't quite understand that notion. Leliana's views about the Maker and Chantry are different than the standard. Way I see it, any involvement she has in the chantry involves some work as a reformist.

Hardening her or not just affects her personality a little bit, like it does Alistair. It doesn't change her religious beliefs one bit. Unless in DA:I a hardened Leliana will be willing to cross a few lines to do what she or Justinia wants.

Heck, Dorothea/Justinia was part of the reason Leliana become a believer. So they might share the same views. which may be why Leliana was chosen to be the Divine's left hand, and why she accepted the job.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 15 décembre 2012 - 12:20 .

[Iakus]

David Gaider wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...
Actually, he did.  Due to import bugs, the only time he didn't offer to sleep with Hawke or Isabela is if he romanced the Warden and the Warden died slaying the Archdemon.  Which, yes, was a bug, but it's also a bug that, to my knowledge, was never patched, because the import bugs were considered to be bugs on DA:O's part, not DA2's part.  Hopefully future imports will lack bugs, but regardless, your example doesn't work, because yes, romanced Zevran does sleep with people in DA2.

*hands*

Then, yes. If we used Isabela in a similar capacity as Zevran's cameo in DA2 and if there was an import bug that didn't recognize her romance with the DA2 PC, then by all means she would sleep with someone.

I'm not sure how you would expect the writers to account for that. Don't have bugs? Well, OK then. We'll get right on that.

I must admit, it is bugs like that which have contributed to be being pretty soured about importing at all. 

But that said, I do like the idea of previous LIs reacting in such a way that I can imagine that things worked out (assuming the PC survived)  Such as Leliana referring to the Warden as "Dear to her heart".  Sure she's not with the Warden at the moment, but their duties presumably force them to be apart from time to time. 

[Saibh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Seriously, if you know it's a bug and you still complain and don't just ignore it or don't take that option then that's your problem.

Is the argument genuinely that unfixed bugs equal canon? 

Mass Effect did canonize the Conrad Verner bug, because it simply happened to everyone. And it's worth noting that they haven't patched it, even though I'm pretty sure modders did. I'm not making judgment calls on what the patching team should be doing, but I think the uneasiness is understandable.

[Direwolf0294]

Saibh wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Seriously, if you know it's a bug and you still complain and don't just ignore it or don't take that option then that's your problem.

Is the argument genuinely that unfixed bugs equal canon? 

Mass Effect did canonize the Conrad Verner bug, because it simply happened to everyone. And it's worth noting that they haven't patched it, even though I'm pretty sure modders did. I'm not making judgment calls on what the patching team should be doing, but I think the uneasiness is understandable.

Out of curiosity, what was the Conrad Verner bug?

I always feel slightly left out whenever Conrad is bought up. Everyone loves him so much, but I don't remember ever encountering him in ME1 and he made no appearance at all in my versions of ME2 or ME3.

[Althix]

Darth Death wrote...
 that way my PC may stab her with the murder knife, whispering in her ear, "Hawke told me about you".  

oh yes.

[WhiteKnyght]

David Gaider wrote...

Have to admit, it's this kind of thing that makes me wonder whether I should really be coming here to say anything at all. Perhaps I should not. Something to consider, I guess.

Don't punish us all because of a few trolls, D-Gai. They're trolls. Their sole function is to be a virus in internet communities that generally ****** everyone off.

[Saibh]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Out of curiosity, what was the Conrad Verner bug?

I always feel slightly left out whenever Conrad is bought up. Everyone loves him so much, but I don't remember ever encountering him in ME1 and he made no appearance at all in my versions of ME2 or ME3.

In ME1, there was this guy named Conrad Verner who was a big fan of you and your accomplishements. You meet him three different times when he wants an autograph, a picture, and finally to join you. You can scare him or reason with him to get the dumb idea out of his head. However, there's a bug that (I believe) raises the flag for both the Paragon and Renegade way of handling it, meaning it only reads the Renegade way.

So when you see him again in ME2, he's acting as if he you threatened him. Everyone got this bug, and the BioWare team said they could not patch it because it was an issue with ME1, not ME2 (although it is actually successfully fan patched).

So, during the development of ME3, they tell us that since everyone got the bug and they hadn't fixed that, they'd canonize the bug. So in ME3, if you originally took the Paragon route, he'll apologize if he ever accused you of pointing a gun at him and you didn't really do that.

So while I understand ME and DA have two different teams, and I am not saying that the DA team will do the same thing (nor am I necessarily condemning that the ME team did), I do think there is precedent, so I understand the unease.

[Get Magna Carter]

Personally, I think Isabellla is a sl...
uh, I mean she is very free with with her affections.
Hawke has disappeared and she has her needs.
I can't imagine her accepting a long period of celibacy waiting for Hawke to reappear.
(And my Hawke did end up with her in my playthrough)

[nightscrawl]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Seriously, if you know it's a bug and you still complain and don't just ignore it or don't take that option then that's your problem.

Is the argument genuinely that unfixed bugs equal canon? 

Just because Harle Cerulean knows it's a bug doesn't mean that everyone who romanced Zevran who then played DA2 with that imported choice also knows it's a bug. As the devs are fond of pointing out, the forumites are a minority. To expect most of the players, or most of those who romanced Zevran, to know it's a bug is folly. Those same players who don't visit the BSN or read the DAwiki will either assume it's a bug and blame the devs, or think that the game was not honoring their decisions and still blame the devs. Either way, no one wins.

At any rate, the bug issue aside, since their intention was that Zevran not sleep with anyone if he romanced the Warden, I think that is what counts. So there really shouldn't be further concern over Isabela regarding that.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 15 décembre 2012 - 08:50 .