968 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Well yes exactly that's what I want Oleg to do as well and what the OP started with that we could have a nuanced portrayal and that on being confronted with TIM's insanity he would reject it in favour of an alliance rather than being a card carrying villain ie Kai Lang.

Then he would have to abandon anything and everything to do with Cerberus, forever.

So you would replace jtav's ideal of humanity effectively replacing the Asari with what? God Emperor Shepard enforcing their will with a Reaper legion hardly seems much of an improvement to me.

I'll rebuild the galaxy as close to how it was as I can, but with whatever changes I can implement within the rebuilding. I believe the asari are more suitable for cultural control than humans are, but I'll try to avoid outright favoritism in any of my dealings.

[paul165]

Barquiel wrote...

Miranda or Brynn are scientists who didn't do anything amoral (Well, at least as far as we know). That's something completely different than a high ranking military officer who's involved in war crimes. For example, the US used Na.zi scientists during the cold war. But nobody thought it would be a great idea to reinstate former SS generals.

And human dominance is really the last thing the galaxy needs...

Yes I'm sure Salarian domination will be far preferable.....

The Council system whatever you may think of it is largely dead by the end of ME3 with the Turians and Asari being pale shadows of their former glory.

That leaves Humanity, the Salarians, the Geth (maybe) and Shepard (control ending) as the potential major players.

Given the Geth's disinterest in organic affairs of the options give me humanity - apart from anything else we seem to lack the will for the really hardline humanity uber alles government system you seem to (correctly) be repulsed by. Thing is jtav was arguing for a super power level of domination not a 40k Imperium of Man gig.

[CroGamer002]

Barquiel wrote...

Miranda or Brynn are scientists who didn't do anything amoral (Well, at least as far as we know). That's something completely different than a high ranking military officer who's involved in war crimes. For example, the US used Na.zi scientists during the cold war. But nobody thought it would be a great idea to reinstate former SS generals.

And human dominance is really the last thing the galaxy needs...

Riiight...

Because one general can accomplish that one. while alien's own organization with own desire for domination just can't work nor oppose human one.

Right, I buy that.

[Xilizhra]

paul165 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Miranda or Brynn are scientists who didn't do anything amoral (Well, at least as far as we know). That's something completely different than a high ranking military officer who's involved in war crimes. For example, the US used Na.zi scientists during the cold war. But nobody thought it would be a great idea to reinstate former SS generals.

And human dominance is really the last thing the galaxy needs...

Yes I'm sure Salarian domination will be far preferable.....

The Council system whatever you may think of it is largely dead by the end of ME3 with the Turians and Asari being pale shadows of their former glory.

That leaves Humanity, the Salarians, the Geth (maybe) and Shepard (control ending) as the potential major players.

Given the Geth's disinterest in organic affairs of the options give me humanity - apart from anything else we seem to lack the will for the really hardline humanity uber alles government system you seem to (correctly) be repulsed by. Thing is jtav was arguing for a super power level of domination not a 40k Imperium of Man gig.

Hah. Humans have been completely ground to dust, with almost the entirety of their power expended against the Reapers. Turians have a bit more strength left, asari should actually be reasonably well off because Thessia wasn't occupied until the war was almost over already. The salarians sat the war out, so they could be better, but they're not going to receive a lick of rebuilding until I finish the rest of the galaxy.

But no, humans aren't going to be a superpower anytime soon and have a reasonable chance of never being so again.

[Barquiel]

paul165 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Miranda or Brynn are scientists who didn't do anything amoral (Well, at least as far as we know). That's something completely different than a high ranking military officer who's involved in war crimes. For example, the US used Na.zi scientists during the cold war. But nobody thought it would be a great idea to reinstate former SS generals.

And human dominance is really the last thing the galaxy needs...

Yes I'm sure Salarian domination will be far preferable.....

The Council system whatever you may think of it is largely dead by the end of ME3 with the Turians and Asari being pale shadows of their former glory.

That leaves Humanity, the Salarians, the Geth (maybe) and Shepard (control ending) as the potential major players.

Given the Geth's disinterest in organic affairs of the options give me humanity - apart from anything else we seem to lack the will for the really hardline humanity uber alles government system you seem to (correctly) be repulsed by. Thing is jtav was arguing for a super power level of domination not a 40k Imperium of Man gig.

Say what you like about the council system, but the three council races did a relatively good job ensuring peace and stability in the galaxy. There were only two major conflicts in the last 2500 years, and both wars wouldn't have happened without the involvement of the reapers (or the leviathans).

According to Bioware, the rebuilding takes place ten to fifteen years to complete (and Earth had the largest reaper presence, not Thessia or Palaven). I don't expect major political changes. I'd keep a multi-racial council (maybe add a rotating seat for the other species).

Modifié par Barquiel, 12 novembre 2012 - 07:18 .

[Taboo]

Mesina2 wrote...

^Well, Shepard could discover on Omega who Oleg really is.

After that, he/she could then find opportunity to go against Aria and wipe her out and her troops, since she would never surrender.

Better to have an ex-Cerberus as an asset then some criminal lord.

Actually Aria has more sway than Petrovsky does. It makes little sense to use someone who has less power in a war for EVERYONE. It's almost as if you just want to choose Oleg *gasp*  because he's Oleg.

Point being it's a war out there not fanboy pick of the month.

But all three? That'd be a hell of a show.

[paul165]

Xilizhra wrote...

paul165 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Miranda or Brynn are scientists who didn't do anything amoral (Well, at least as far as we know). That's something completely different than a high ranking military officer who's involved in war crimes. For example, the US used Na.zi scientists during the cold war. But nobody thought it would be a great idea to reinstate former SS generals.

And human dominance is really the last thing the galaxy needs...

Yes I'm sure Salarian domination will be far preferable.....

The Council system whatever you may think of it is largely dead by the end of ME3 with the Turians and Asari being pale shadows of their former glory.

That leaves Humanity, the Salarians, the Geth (maybe) and Shepard (control ending) as the potential major players.

Given the Geth's disinterest in organic affairs of the options give me humanity - apart from anything else we seem to lack the will for the really hardline humanity uber alles government system you seem to (correctly) be repulsed by. Thing is jtav was arguing for a super power level of domination not a 40k Imperium of Man gig.

Hah. Humans have been completely ground to dust, with almost the entirety of their power expended against the Reapers. Turians have a bit more strength left, asari should actually be reasonably well off because Thessia wasn't occupied until the war was almost over already. The salarians sat the war out, so they could be better, but they're not going to receive a lick of rebuilding until I finish the rest of the galaxy.

But no, humans aren't going to be a superpower anytime soon and have a reasonable chance of never being so again.

Humanity at least according to the war assets have a surprisingly strong military left although I concede this is hardly the strongest evidence what they do have is a history of ascending in power incredibly quickly by galactic standards and some very nice tech acquired from being lead on building the crucible.  The Turians threw everything they had into holding Palaven and when they lost it they lost everything - and the Turian's power and prestige unlike other races was based purely on their military strength.

Thessia wasn't taken until late in the war granted but the Reapers didn't occupy it they destroyed it bombarding it from orbit before moving in on the ground.

If Humanity is as badly hammered as you believe do you really want the Salarians taking over as I agree they are almost untouched by the war or are you going to use Harby and co to enforce a pre war system.

As to the Council's history they are great at keeping a static peaceful system ticking over but throw in an external factor and it all goes to hell. There have been three major threats in the Council's existence and they got stomped by all of them:

Rachni (saved by Krogans)
Krogans (saved by Turians)
Reapers (saved by um, Reapers? kinda)

I'll give them a pass on the Reapers although their preparation and the conduct of the war was criminally negligent it's unlikely doing a better job would have mattered materially but they only were saved from the other two by another external factor

@Taboo yes I personally want Oleg rather than Aria because among other things given the choice I would take a soldier rather than a criminal doesn't mean there aren't valid reasons to consider him a better choice other than personal preference

[Barquiel]

paul165 wrote...

Humanity at least according to the war assets have a surprisingly strong military left although I concede this is hardly the strongest evidence what they do have is a history of ascending in power incredibly quickly by galactic standards and some very nice tech acquired from being lead on building the crucible.  The Turians threw everything they had into holding Palaven and when they lost it they lost everything - and the Turian's power and prestige unlike other races was based purely on their military strength.

Thessia wasn't taken until late in the war granted but the Reapers didn't occupy it they destroyed it bombarding it from orbit before moving in on the ground.

I think humans have so many war assets because the alliance sent everything they have to take earth back. The other races (at least the asari and the salarians) can't afford to send all of their troops/fleets as they still have reapers to fight on their own homeworlds and colonies.

Don't you mean Palaven? As far as I remember, the destruction of Palaven's cities had even created a planet-wide breathing hazard. The Reapers had more of a “harvesting” approach to Thessia and Earth, that's why they were targeting the infrastructure on these planets...forcing the population to surrender.

[MisterJB]

Barquiel wrote...
Say what you like about the council system, but the three council races did a relatively good job ensuring peace and stability in the galaxy.

I call it opression and stagnation. Maybe the volus or the elcor are content with sitting around for two millenia eating scraps from the table and being grateful for it but the human race is made of sterner stuff.

[Catroi]

don't worry, you still die at the end

[Xilizhra]

Humanity at least according to the war assets have a surprisingly strong military left although I concede this is hardly the strongest evidence what they do have is a history of ascending in power incredibly quickly by galactic standards and some very nice tech acquired from being lead on building the crucible. The Turians threw everything they had into holding Palaven and when they lost it they lost everything - and the Turian's power and prestige unlike other races was based purely on their military strength.

Palaven never truly fell. And the Alliance's war assets are high because the entire Alliance was committed to Hackett's war plan. The Alliance war assets represent literally everything the Alliance has, and almost all of that was destroyed in the final battle. The other races had fleets and suchlike defending other worlds, of which they had far more than humans did.

Thessia wasn't taken until late in the war granted but the Reapers didn't occupy it they destroyed it bombarding it from orbit before moving in on the ground.

Thessia wasn't nearly destroyed. There was some bombardment, but there's been bombardment everywhere; it's certainly not worse off than Earth.

If Humanity is as badly hammered as you believe do you really want the Salarians taking over as I agree they are almost untouched by the war or are you going to use Harby and co to enforce a pre war system.

I don't think I need to outright enforce anything; with the Reapers being mine, the mere threat of force seems to be more useful than force itself. My plan, as I said, is to rebuild first and foremost; the salarians, however, will not be rewarded for sitting the war out.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
Palaven never truly fell. And the Alliance's war assets are high because the entire Alliance was committed to Hackett's war plan. The Alliance war assets represent literally everything the Alliance has, and almost all of that was destroyed in the final battle. The other races had fleets and suchlike defending other worlds, of which they had far more than humans did.

First of all, you are assuming almost all of humanity's fleet was destroyed.

Second, Garrus tells us that the Primarch ordered a full retreat of all turian ships, same with the asari, so they could focus all of their military strenght in the one thing that could turn the war, the Crucible.
So, while I certainly won't claim that the EMS are an accurate description of the miltary strenght of any species, the humans, turians and asari commited every single one of their ships to the attack on Sol System, leaving ground forces to fend for themselves much like Hackett did in the beginning of the game.

[Xilizhra]

First of all, you are assuming almost all of humanity's fleet was destroyed.

It'd certainly take the brunt of the assault.

Second, Garrus tells us that the Primarch ordered a full retreat of all turian ships, same with the asari, so they could focus all of their military strenght in the one thing that could turn the war, the Crucible.
So, while I certainly won't claim that the EMS are an accurate description of the miltary strenght of any species, the humans, turians and asari commited every single one of their ships to the attack on Sol System, leaving ground forces to fend for themselves much like Hackett did in the beginning of the game.

The turians and asari don't actually gain any more war assets from this (and I don't recall hearing about the asari doing any fleet-shuffling at all), so I'm not sure they all made it to the final battle. If they did, well, that leaves the salarians as the preeminent galactic power... assuming I just let them take it, which I don't plan on doing, given their rather heinous dereliction of duty during the Reaper war.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
It'd certainly take the brunt of the assault.

Or the turians or asari or any other race took it.

The turians and asari don't actually gain any more war assets from this (and I don't recall hearing about the asari doing any fleet-shuffling at all), so I'm not sure they all made it to the final battle. If they did, well, that leaves the salarians as the preeminent galactic power

Hackett mentions that if Miranda didn't plant a bug on Kai Leng, Cerberus knows they are coming and the Fifth Fleet suffers greater casualties. This also doesn't change the war asset number of said fleet but it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
As for the asari, you can hear EDI mention they beat a full retreat after Thessia falls. Granted, they could have delegated ships to defend asari colonies but that's doubtful. At first, they'd want to protect the homeworld and after it fell, they'd know the Crucible was the only hope.

[Xilizhra]

Regardless, humans are in no shape to attain galactic superpower status again anytime soon. If it's Destroy and the genophage wasn't cured, the salarians will hold supreme power, although their own fleets will have been more depleted. If the genophage was cured, all of their forces will be intact but the krogan will be another potential major factor, and the next major contest may be the rivalry between the krogan and salarians. In Control, the Reapers are above all else and Shepard's actions will determine who rises next. In Synthesis... who knows?

[MisterJB]

Not on their own, perhaps but, depending on Shepard's actions, the humans have many potentially powerful allies to turn to. Turians/volus, krogans, quarians, geth.
If anything, I can see this group forming their own Republic of Species with the salarians; and potentially the asari; as rivals.

[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

Not on their own, perhaps but, depending on Shepard's actions, the humans have many potentially powerful allies to turn to. Turians/volus, krogans, quarians, geth.
If anything, I can see this group forming their own Republic of Species with the salarians; and potentially the asari; as rivals.

Absolutely none of which have a reason to empower humans specifically. Personally, I'd say the war disintegrates most of the prior rivalries and relationships, and has most of the species start off on a new foot. I do, however, believe that the asari will take the cultural lead again; they're very good at it, even if they're not the political leaders immediately.

Luckily, I have to worry about little of this in my own galaxy.

[Steelcan]

Post Destroy, I see Humanity, the Turians, and the Krogan(if genophage is cured) dominating the galaxy. The Asari and Salarians are going to be in deep sh*t when word gets out about the attempted genophage sabotage, and the Asari keeping their little secret.

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Post Destroy, I see Humanity, the Turians, and the Krogan(if genophage is cured) dominating the galaxy. The Asari and Salarians are going to be in deep sh*t when word gets out about the attempted genophage sabotage, and the Asari keeping their little secret.

So you'd destroy an entire race's reputation over the actions of a tiny few in their government? You have no place here.

[MisterJB]

Alliances are meant to empower each other. With the salarians basically untouched and great animosity towards the asari who will still have large reserves of eezo on their homeworld, it is only natural for humans and turians and others to band together to retain political power.
It was a human with a human ship who united all of these races; the krogan were on Pallaven; the quarians helped the turians evacuate civillians; etc. (this all, of course, quite dependant on Shepard's actions)

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Post Destroy, I see Humanity, the Turians, and the Krogan(if genophage is cured) dominating the galaxy. The Asari and Salarians are going to be in deep sh*t when word gets out about the attempted genophage sabotage, and the Asari keeping their little secret.

So you'd destroy an entire race's reputation over the actions of a tiny few in their government? You have no place here.

The actions of the government reflect on its people as a whole. While the individual asari might not have been aware of their secret, they are going to suffer a lot of animosity.
Which I'd argue is earned but for many other things.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Post Destroy, I see Humanity, the Turians, and the Krogan(if genophage is cured) dominating the galaxy. The Asari and Salarians are going to be in deep sh*t when word gets out about the attempted genophage sabotage, and the Asari keeping their little secret.

So you'd destroy an entire race's reputation over the actions of a tiny few in their government? You have no place here.

  Im not saying it is a good thing that this will happen.  But it still create a LOT of ill will towrds the Asari

[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

Alliances are meant to empower each other. With the salarians basically untouched and great animosity towards the asari who will still have large reserves of eezo on their homeworld, it is only natural for humans and turians and others to band together to retain political power.
It was a human with a human ship who united all of these races; the krogan were on Pallaven; the quarians helped the turians evacuate civillians; etc. (this all, of course, quite dependant on Shepard's actions)

I see no reason to foster or allow such animosity.

  Im not saying it is a good thing that this will happen.  But it still create a LOT of ill will towrds the Asari

I don't intend to allow it to be made known.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 12 novembre 2012 - 11:06 .

[MisterJB]

Thankfully, that is out of Shepard's hands. Hackett knows, everyone on the Normandy knows, Diana Allers even writes a story on it.
I'd say the truth gets out quite quickly.

Modifié par MisterJB, 12 novembre 2012 - 11:19 .

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Alliances are meant to empower each other. With the salarians basically untouched and great animosity towards the asari who will still have large reserves of eezo on their homeworld, it is only natural for humans and turians and others to band together to retain political power.
It was a human with a human ship who united all of these races; the krogan were on Pallaven; the quarians helped the turians evacuate civillians; etc. (this all, of course, quite dependant on Shepard's actions)

I see no reason to foster or allow such animosity.

  Im not saying it is a good thing that this will happen.  But it still create a LOT of ill will towrds the Asari

I don't intend to allow it to be made known.

So what you are just going to quash all dissent and opinion?