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[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

Thankfully, that is out of Shepard's hands. Hackett knows, everyone on the Normandy knows, Diana Allers even writes a story on it.
I'd say the truth gets out quite quickly.

I'll kill Allers' story and ask Hackett as a personal favor to not blab. I suspect most of the rest of the Normandy wouldn't be so crass as to do so either.

So what you are just going to quash all dissent and opinion?

I'll quash classified information.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 12 novembre 2012 - 11:27 .

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Thankfully, that is out of Shepard's hands. Hackett knows, everyone on the Normandy knows, Diana Allers even writes a story on it.
I'd say the truth gets out quite quickly.

I'll kill Allers' story and ask Hackett as a personal favor to not blab. I suspect most of the rest of the Normandy wouldn't be so crass as to do so either.

So what you are just going to quash all dissent and opinion?

I'll quash classified information.

.  Help, help. I'm being oppressed.  Now do you see the violence inherent in the system?  Did you see me being oppressed?

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
I'll kill Allers' story and ask Hackett as a personal favor to not blab. I suspect most of the rest of the Normandy wouldn't be so crass as to do so either.

It's out. People know. End of story.
Besides, Hackett would have to be an idiot not to use this information. You may have forgotten it, but the asari are rivals of the Human Alliance.

[paul165]

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Not on their own, perhaps but, depending on Shepard's actions, the humans have many potentially powerful allies to turn to. Turians/volus, krogans, quarians, geth.
If anything, I can see this group forming their own Republic of Species with the salarians; and potentially the asari; as rivals.

Absolutely none of which have a reason to empower humans specifically. Personally, I'd say the war disintegrates most of the prior rivalries and relationships, and has most of the species start off on a new foot. I do, however, believe that the asari will take the cultural lead again; they're very good at it, even if they're not the political leaders immediately.

Luckily, I have to worry about little of this in my own galaxy.

The Asari maintained power through economic superiority, fancy tech and moral superiority (willingness to share and compromise). The problem for the post war is that:

Their economic superiority burned with their homeworld.
Their technology was revealed to be stolen
And their moral superiority got hammered by their actions during the war and of course the beacon issue.

Whilst the Asari either remain or could regain significant power it is unlikely they will acheive the level of cultural dominance that other species were previously willing (if not necessarily happy) to grant.

I agree the war disintegrates prior relationships its why I argue the Council as a structure is doomed as it shows itself impotent in the face of a real threat as the Asari and Salarians abandon their Turian and Human "allies" to the Reapers forcing us instead to rely on the outcast Krogan and Geth/Quarians for support.

I would argue the only races that end the war in a good position are the Geth (disinterested and busy with their own affairs - especially if the Quarians survived) not really a problem and the Salarians (damn). The Salarians have no particular emotional attachment to the Council and even if their current policy makers do have an emotional attachment their short lifespan ensures they will soon be replaced by those who do not.

Political isolation resulting from their actions during the war is all but inevitable especially with the Krogan being Big Damn Heroes on Palaven and that coupled with a powerful military and a first strike doctrine does not make for a happy peaceful galaxy.

Unless of course peace is enforced by the Reapers but that causes a host of other problems.

[Xilizhra]

It's out. People know. End of story.
Besides, Hackett would have to be an idiot not to use this information. You may have forgotten it, but the asari are rivals of the Human Alliance.

Such rivalries are over, at least for the time being. I will strongly discourage such bickering while we're trying to rebuild. After that... I don't plan on decreeing a lot, but if I have to make a public statement about this, I'll do so.

Their economic superiority burned with their homeworld.
Their technology was revealed to be stolen
And their moral superiority got hammered by their actions during the war and of course the beacon issue.

Their technology was mostly not stolen, they only received a few vague boosts over the centuries. In any case, everyone's been elevated by Prothean technology. I will ensure that this is known.

Political isolation resulting from their actions during the war is all but inevitable especially with the Krogan being Big Damn Heroes on Palaven and that coupled with a powerful military and a first strike doctrine does not make for a happy peaceful galaxy.

Unless of course peace is enforced by the Reapers but that causes a host of other problems.

I will also ensure that no new wars arise.

[paul165]

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Thankfully, that is out of Shepard's hands. Hackett knows, everyone on the Normandy knows, Diana Allers even writes a story on it.
I'd say the truth gets out quite quickly.

I'll kill Allers' story and ask Hackett as a personal favor to not blab. I suspect most of the rest of the Normandy wouldn't be so crass as to do so either.

So what you are just going to quash all dissent and opinion?

I'll quash classified information.

Most of the Normandy crew - as opposed to your ground them are Systems Alliance who report to their CO. Shepard even in control being temporarily dead they will probably report to Hackett who regardless of military skill is a quite skillful politician. Whether he will make it public is a different matter given the way he appears to think in the game I would suggest he is probably more likely to blackmail the Asari as a first resort.

Using the Reapers to control information flow or reform the Council, enforce pre war political considerations etc seems to me to lead God!Shepard down a dark path towards absolute control over the galaxy in which case the galaxy isn't saved it just swapped occasional bouts of extinction for an eternity of polite slavery.

Lots of people would argue that ain't much of an improvement

Edit: wait what? "You will ensure no new wars arise".

The only way to do that is to take effective control of the galaxy and which point you are setting yourself up as the Immortal God Emperor of Mankind Everyone and the Council is completely irrelevent anyway becuase you make all the major decisions.

Maybe I would prefer the Salarians at least there is a possibility that the other races can escape their tyranny.

Modifié par paul165, 12 novembre 2012 - 11:55 .

[Xilizhra]

Most of the Normandy crew - as opposed to your ground them are Systems Alliance who report to their CO. Shepard even in control being temporarily dead they will probably report to Hackett who regardless of military skill is a quite skillful politician. Whether he will make it public is a different matter given the way he appears to think in the game I would suggest he is probably more likely to blackmail the Asari as a first resort.

Then I'll only send a private message to him to tell him to knock it off.

Using the Reapers to control information flow or reform the Council, enforce pre war political considerations etc seems to me to lead God!Shepard down a dark path towards absolute control over the galaxy in which case the galaxy isn't saved it just swapped occasional bouts of extinction for an eternity of polite slavery.

I don't need the Reapers to reform the Council. The Citadel's intact, and IIRC the Council successfully evacuated; all they have to do is come back. I'll make sure the keepers have the Council Chamber cleaned up.

[jtav]

And this would be why I wrote Cerberus 2.0 as a specifically anti-Shepalyst organization. We need people like Petrovsky to fight such tyranny.

[Xilizhra]

jtav wrote...

And this would be why I wrote Cerberus 2.0 as a specifically anti-Shepalyst organization. We need people like Petrovsky to fight such tyranny.

Erm, what tyranny? To clarify, all I really need to do is quiet one reporter who's under me on the military chain of command, send a message to one admiral who might get too ambitious, and let the Council board the Citadel again.

That said, your message does reiterate the importance, to me, of wiping out all traces of Cerberus.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
Then I'll only send a private message to him to tell him to knock it off.

And he'll answer "No" because humans are beniffiting from this and its his job to ensure human survival and prosperity.

I don't need the Reapers to reform the Council. The Citadel's intact, and IIRC the Council successfully evacuated; all they have to do is come back. I'll make sure the keepers have the Council Chamber cleaned up.

The constitution of the Council relied on the power and outlooks of their respective species all of which have been severelly affected. These changes will lead to changes within the Council system itself.
New alliances, new resentments, differences in power that didn't exist before, etc. It's not simply a matter of calling the old guys back.

[jtav]

And wipe out all religious and ethnic tensions and ensure your will is followed without question. Your Control!Shep is a tyrant.

[Xilizhra]

And he'll answer "No" because humans are beniffiting from this and its his job to ensure human survival and prosperity.

As a favor, then, requested by the one who saved the galaxy and is currently engaged in rebuilding it.

The constitution of the Council relied on the power and outlooks of their respective species all of which have been severelly affected. These changes will lead to changes within the Council system itself.
New alliances, new resentments, differences in power that didn't exist before, etc. It's not simply a matter of calling the old guys back.

Not completely, no. But we can begin there, and it gives us a good place to start.

And wipe out all religious and
ethnic tensions and ensure your will is followed without question. Your
Control!Shep is a tyrant.

Hah. I'm a tyrant for wanting to get rid of a vicious terrorist organization that most recently tried to destroy all advanced galactic life? I suspect your definition is rather too liberal.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 13 novembre 2012 - 12:08 .

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
As a favor, then, requested by the one who saved the galaxy and is currently engaged in rebuilding it.

"Request Denied."

Not completely, no. But we can begin there, and it gives us a good place to start.

Not at all. The old Council was innefective and opressive and there is little to no incentive to rebuild it other than perhaps the asari who are in danger of losing their relevance.

[Xilizhra]

"Request Denied."

It doesn't have to be a request. I'd like it to be. I believe I can preside over some kind of negotiation that could keep things civil. But if push comes to shove, things don't necessarily have to stay civil.

Not at all. The old Council was innefective and opressive and there is little to no incentive to rebuild it other than perhaps the asari who are in danger of losing their relevance.

I want to keep the salarians embroiled in the current power structure and under a legal incentive to share power. I then want to rebuild the asari along with the turians and humans to spots more or less similar to where they were before.

[MisterJB]

You just say "I want.". You are not proposing logical reasons why it would end as such or ways to achieve it.

[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

You just say "I want.". You are not proposing logical reasons why it would end as such or ways to achieve it.

I was expressing my opinion to contest your own. For outright facts as to how to achieve it, I don't know if we have enough information on the postwar galaxy to truly discern such.

[MisterJB]

This is an opinion: "I think the Council system will be severely changed because the asari will be repudiated due to their actions during the war and few will be willing to listen to them whereas the other races will be united due to their previous cooperation with the exception of the salarian who will also face resentment but won't be interested to support the Council due to the new gap between their strenght and everyone else's.

This is a wish: "I want to keep the salarians embroiled in the current power structure and under a legal incentive to share power. I then want to rebuild the asari along with the turians and humans to spots more or less similar to where they were before."

There's a difference.

Modifié par MisterJB, 13 novembre 2012 - 12:28 .

[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

This is an opinion: "I think the Council system will be severely changed because the asari will be repudiated due to their actions during the war and few will be willing to listen to them whereas the other races will be united due to their previous cooperation with the exception of the salarian who will also face resentment but won't be interested to support the Council due to the new gap between their strenght and everyone else's.

This is a wish: "I want to keep the salarians embroiled in the current power structure and under a legal incentive to share power. I then want to rebuild the asari along with the turians and humans to spots more or less similar to where they were before."

There's a difference.

As you like.

I believe the salarians will not want to break away from the Council if it can be easily brought back; they may want to raise their own position, but they won't flout the body itself. Hence, any powergrabs by them should be at least delayed here, and give the rest time to rebuild.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra, when you read 1984, I bet you sat down and thought, "I want to be just like Big Brother"

[SpamBot2000]

paul165 wrote...

Shepard even in control being temporarily dead

Riiiiight.... 'temporarily'... 

[majormajormmajor]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra, when you read 1984, I bet you sat down and thought, "I want to be just like Big Brother"

The irony of coming from a farking Cerberus fanboy.

[paul165]

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

This is an opinion: "I think the Council system will be severely changed because the asari will be repudiated due to their actions during the war and few will be willing to listen to them whereas the other races will be united due to their previous cooperation with the exception of the salarian who will also face resentment but won't be interested to support the Council due to the new gap between their strenght and everyone else's.

This is a wish: "I want to keep the salarians embroiled in the current power structure and under a legal incentive to share power. I then want to rebuild the asari along with the turians and humans to spots more or less similar to where they were before."

There's a difference.

As you like.

I believe the salarians will not want to break away from the Council if it can be easily brought back; they may want to raise their own position, but they won't flout the body itself. Hence, any powergrabs by them should be at least delayed here, and give the rest time to rebuild.

I'm sure the Salarians would like the veneer of respectability for their power grab yes it doesn't mean they would in any way tolerate sharing power when they could have the whole thing.

Also for the Hackett thing you are talking about interfering in internal politics and threatening a major leader. Then if he still declines - what indoctrination to make him more flexible or just flatten the base he's in.

[Barquiel]

MisterJB wrote...

This is an opinion: "I think the Council system will be severely changed because the asari will be repudiated due to their actions during the war and few will be willing to listen to them whereas the other races will be united due to their previous cooperation with the exception of the salarian who will also face resentment but won't be interested to support the Council due to the new gap between their strenght and everyone else's.

This is a wish: "I want to keep the salarians embroiled in the current power structure and under a legal incentive to share power. I then want to rebuild the asari along with the turians and humans to spots more or less similar to where they were before."

There's a difference.

The difference is that the in-game dialogue and the epilogue slides clearly point towards Xilizhra's wish. The asari beacon won't be common knowledge. Everyone who knows about the beacon is dead, or has no interest in revealing the truth (and no, Hackett doesn't know anything about the beacon either, just listen to his dialogue).

Of course this has nothing to do with Petrovsky's fate and the topic of this thread

[Soundwave04]

From what I've heard, people are fearing Oleg will be demoted to Dick Dastardly. 0.0

[CroGamer002]

Soundwave04 wrote...

From what I've heard, people are fearing Oleg will be demoted to Dick Dastardly. 0.0

Pretty much.