968 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Also the Asari government is not a tiny "cabal". It is a vast electronic democracy as explained in the codex. There really is not a big gap between the government and people as there is in say the Salarian Union or the Systems Alliance, or Batarian Hegemony.

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Also the Asari government is not a tiny "cabal". It is a vast electronic democracy as explained in the codex. There really is not a big gap between the government and people as there is in say the Salarian Union or the Systems Alliance, or Batarian Hegemony.

The number of people who knew about the beacon was extremely small; Tevos mentions that it was known only to the highest levels of the government.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Also the Asari government is not a tiny "cabal". It is a vast electronic democracy as explained in the codex. There really is not a big gap between the government and people as there is in say the Salarian Union or the Systems Alliance, or Batarian Hegemony.

The number of people who knew about the beacon was extremely small; Tevos mentions that it was known only to the highest levels of the government.

And the Asari voted every one of them into power.

[paul165]

Xilizhra wrote...

The "tiny matriachal clique" is the asari government as much as they have one regardless their actions during the war are worthy of reproach beacon or no beacon as they proved themselves unworthy "allies" abandoning not merely Humanity but the Turians to the Reaper's tender mercies.

Such "abandonment" was over trivially quickly, and they were no more guilty of it than the krogan were (or even the turians).

The Krogan weren't allied with anyone so they didn't abandon their allies anymore than the Geth or Quarians did. The Turians must have been hit about the same time we were as Palavan is burning by the time you get there and all you do between the fall of Earth and your visit is one quick drop on Mars and a useless meeting with the Council. 2 days? Maybe as long as 5. The Asari sit on their posteriors through the fall of Earth and the torching of Palaven. Heck the Geth join the war before the Asari do. Whilst ME3 takes place over a fairly short period of time the Asari sat out most of the war until it came knocking on their doorstep in the endgame.

Note for clarity that I am not advocating bombing Thessia or anything of that nature I just fail to see why the other races or God!Shepard would welcome let alone support any attempt at the return of Asari dominance when they have proven themselves as falliable and self interested as the other major players.

Their culture is the best in peacetime, which is now the only time. Okay, I was kidding there, but still, the need for standing armies should be rather reduced now. And again, the vast majority of asari didn't know about the beacon and were unable to use that as a factor when choosing their leaders.

Define best. Most stagnant? definately and that stagnation has a use in countering the Salarians but their lack of progress in the millenium they have held the Citadel makes it difficult to recommend them for the level of dominance you seem to favour.

Besides I'm not in the hiding dirty laundry business if the Asari want it suppressed they can get off their pretty purple posteriors and do it themselves rather than relying on external authorities playing favourites. The same attitude most definately applies to the Salarians whilst everyone who cares knows about the relevant human (Cerberus, AIs) and Turian (doomsday devices) diplomatic faux pas.

The asari one doesn't reflect on the asari people as a whole and it deserves to remain secret.

Anymore than the slaving and piracy reflected the Batarian people as a whole but the government represents the people and if they don't do a good job then people deserve to know so that the government can be adjusted.

However that's not God!Shepard's decision to make. You can equally make the argument the Galaxy "deserves" to know the truth and that wouldn't be God!Shepard's decision either.

And will you also supress how they abandoned their "allies"? Or the
Salarian plans to uplift the Yahg or unlease genetically engineered
Varren on the galaxy?

They just joined the war slightly late... at the same time that the turians and krogan did.

See above about the Asari but what about the Salarians - would you supress the information for them as well or is it only the Asari that get their sins forgiven by your god?

[Silcron]

Also I think I need to say this about the cypher. It lets you see the information iñn the beacons asa prothean would, meaning you get the whole information. Without it you get parts, which you have to work to make sense of and/or try again to get more parts. How if not did the research team uncovered the whole schematic for the crucible without shepard?

The asari have had millenia to vstudy the beacon, sure they didn't know everything about it or about the VI inside it, but as Javik pointed out them getting first to e Citadel and their high advancement would probably be due to that beacon, and what the protheans did to them

[paul165]

AresKeith wrote...

@Paul I meant Xil lol

Ah thanks:P

[Taboo]

They are offering you a choice. One you don't like. Therefore the only issue is you not Bioware.

And yes it sucks for all of us. I wanted to talk to him rationally.

Gott weiss ich will kein Engel sein.

[Steelcan]

Taboo-XX wrote...

They are offering you a choice. One you don't like. Therefore the only issue is you not Bioware.

And yes it sucks for all of us. I wanted to talk to him rationally.

Gott weiss ich will kein Engel sein.

. ?

[Taboo]

Sorry it's early. Freaking aesthetics man! Freaking aesthetics!

But in all honesty I don't care about what happens to Petrovsky. Humanity does just fine without him in all the endings.

If you don't want Aria to control Omega pick Nyreen,

[paul165]

Barquiel wrote...

paul165 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Cipher was also needed to get Vendetta, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was needed for a lot more. And there won't be a backlash because I'll ensure that said information never gets out.

And will you also supress how they abandoned their "allies"? Or the Salarian plans to uplift the Yahg or unlease genetically engineered Varren on the galaxy?

How did they abandoned their "allies"? The asari send more war assets than the turians, salarians or the geth/quarians. They also helped human colonies before the councilor agreed to help Shepard (-> PTSD Asari Commando). I mean, did the alliance send any ships to help Thessia or Palaven?

The Alliance is already under attack and most (all?) of their worlds have fallen before we hear about Palaven and long before the Asari are even attacked. The Asari I argue abandon their allies because before they are under attack themselves they do nothing to help their allies. Do they send ground forces? Nope that's the Krogan Ok well the Asari suck at large scale ground combat how about humanitarian aid they surely must have done that? Nope that's the Quarians.

If the galaxies outcasts are doing more to help than your allies are then your allies have abandoned you and any post war diplomatic relationship must take that into account much as post war the Turians will have better relations with the Quarians and Krogan than they enjoyed prewar.

Of course diplomatic relations with the Salarians will be even worse and leveraged well that could well save the Asari's diplomatic relationships on the time honoured basis of well "at least they're better than the other lot"

[Xilizhra]

And the Asari voted every one of them into power.

Yes, as was the Big H. Being elected doesn't mean that the populace knows what you're going to do.

The Krogan weren't allied with anyone so they didn't abandon their allies anymore than the Geth or Quarians did. The Turians must have been hit about the same time we were as Palavan is burning by the time you get there and all you do between the fall of Earth and your visit is one quick drop on Mars and a useless meeting with the Council. 2 days? Maybe as long as 5. The Asari sit on their posteriors through the fall of Earth and the torching of Palaven. Heck the Geth join the war before the Asari do. Whilst ME3 takes place over a fairly short period of time the Asari sat out most of the war until it came knocking on their doorstep in the endgame.

Er, no. The asari are in the war fully throughout acts 2 and 3; they join at the same time that the krogan do.

Define best. Most stagnant? definately and that stagnation has a use in countering the Salarians but their lack of progress in the millenium they have held the Citadel makes it difficult to recommend them for the level of dominance you seem to favour.

Most peaceful, most racially tolerant, most involved in trying to have people work together.

Anymore than the slaving and piracy reflected the Batarian people as a whole but the government represents the people and if they don't do a good job then people deserve to know so that the government can be adjusted.

However that's not God!Shepard's decision to make. You can equally make the argument the Galaxy "deserves" to know the truth and that wouldn't be God!Shepard's decision either.

The government's dead anyway, and the beacon is gone; it'll be under adjustment by default.

See above about the Asari but what about the Salarians - would you supress the information for them as well or is it only the Asari that get their sins forgiven by your god?

Honestly, who would actually be surprised by the salarians doing that? In any case, their government is intact and doesn't need my help.

The Alliance is already under attack and most (all?) of their worlds
have fallen before we hear about Palaven and long before the Asari are
even attacked. The Asari I argue abandon their allies because before they are under attack themselves
they do nothing to help their allies. Do they send ground forces? Nope
that's the Krogan Ok well the Asari suck at large scale ground combat
how about humanitarian aid they surely must have done that? Nope that's
the Quarians.

The asari are providing their fleets, the Destiny Ascension, and a hell of a lot of help on the Crucible.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 13 novembre 2012 - 03:38 .

[Steelcan]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Sorry it's early. Freaking aesthetics man! Freaking aesthetics!

But in all honesty I don't care about what happens to Petrovsky. Humanity does just fine without him in all the endings.

If you don't want Aria to control Omega pick Nyreen,

. I think we are past that topic.

[Taboo]

Well then the Nationalism in this thread has reached Margret Thatcher levels.

*shudder*

[Steelcan]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Well then the Nationalism in this thread has reached Margret Thatcher levels.

*shudder*

. Nah....... Xilizhra just really freakin loves the Asari.

[jtav]

I care what happens to him. So, you know what? Screw BioWare. I'll write Omega myself and toss in a reformed Cerberus and a Miranda I don't want to strangle.

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Well then the Nationalism in this thread has reached Margret Thatcher levels.

*shudder*

. Nah....... Xilizhra just really freakin loves the Asari.

Specifically, I don't want them to be harmed by the actions of a few conspirators just because they were on top politically.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Well then the Nationalism in this thread has reached Margret Thatcher levels.

*shudder*

. Nah....... Xilizhra just really freakin loves the Asari.

Specifically, I don't want them to be harmed by the actions of a few conspirators just because they were on top politically.

Face it, you are a blue pawn.  A BLUE PAWN!!!!!

[Silcron]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Well then the Nationalism in this thread has reached Margret Thatcher levels.

*shudder*

. Nah....... Xilizhra just really freakin loves the Asari.

Specifically, I don't want them to be harmed by the actions of a few conspirators just because they were on top politically.

In ME the economics seem to have swapped species for what's now IRL countries. So asari individuals I don't think they'll have that much of a backlash (everyone loves their blue arse, yes it is that sad) then the asari as a species will have a huge backlash, probably in economics, in terms of political power, maybe even not in as what I figure will be the new council.

Then again in your ending it can happen whatever you want, just as in your ME universe Ashley can be alive and in mine it's Kaidan. Also I choose destroy and you choose control, which I didn't because I don't care how much knowledge they say they have, how perfect...no one should hold that much power ever. For me the idea of God is an aberration, I'd rather shoot myself than creating one, specially if I'm to become that god.

Synthesis, well, suddenly everyone being happy and peacefull sounds too happy and too peacefull for me (if any ending can be considered as IT I'd say that's the one) And refusal it was stupid for me.

Edit: my point is that the asari as a species dealing with others will have backlash, just as countries paid after wars, and that in each of our own playthroughs we set our ME reality, and each of us make our endings after it. I understand talking about the what ifs, but whatever Xil says happens after ME happens (you just have to understand it happens in his/her (idk which ) reality)

Modifié par Silcron, 13 novembre 2012 - 03:59 .

[Taboo]

jtav wrote...

I care what happens to him. So, you know what? Screw BioWare. I'll write Omega myself and toss in a reformed Cerberus and a Miranda I don't want to strangle.

So you have to alter the game to fit your own standards? Why are you still playing them? Do you think that they'd start playing to your vision now when they never have?

[paul165]

The Krogan weren't allied with anyone so
they didn't abandon their allies anymore than the Geth or Quarians did.
The Turians must have been hit about the same time we were as Palavan is
burning by the time you get there and all you do between the fall of
Earth and your visit is one quick drop on Mars and a useless meeting
with the Council. 2 days? Maybe as long as 5. The Asari sit on their
posteriors through the fall of Earth and the torching of Palaven. Heck
the Geth join the war before the Asari do. Whilst ME3 takes place over a
fairly short period of time the Asari sat out most of the war until it
came knocking on their doorstep in the endgame.

Er, no. The asari are in the war fully throughout acts 2 and 3; they join at the same time that the krogan do.

Sorry source? But even if so given that the Alliance and the Turians are screwed at the beginning of act one that's hardly a major achievement. Also please stop trying to compare the Asari who have been allies with the Turians for centuries with the Krogan who don't even have a central government let alone any external political connections. It just makes the Asari look worse:P

The Alliance is already under attack and most (all?) of their worlds
have fallen before we hear about Palaven and long before the Asari are
even attacked. The Asari I argue abandon their allies because before they are under attack themselves
they do nothing to help their allies. Do they send ground forces? Nope
that's the Krogan Ok well the Asari suck at large scale ground combat
how about humanitarian aid they surely must have done that? Nope that's
the Quarians.

The asari are providing their fleets, the Destiny Ascension, and a hell of a lot of help on the Crucible.

After they themselves are attacked they do nothing as a unified political entity until the after the Reapers come knocking on their door.

See above about the Asari but what about
the Salarians - would you supress the information for them as well or is
it only the Asari that get their sins forgiven by your god?

Honestly,
who would actually be surprised by the salarians doing that? In any
case, their government is intact and doesn't need my help.

Pretty sure that no-one else signed up for the Salarians to have a rerun of the Krogan Rebellions except with even more powerful enemies.

So you're playing favourites - that's not a healthy attitude for something as powerful as the Reapers to take and will create at least as many problems long term as it solves.

[Xilizhra]

Sorry source? But even if so given that the Alliance and the Turians are screwed at the beginning of act one that's hardly a major achievement. Also please stop trying to compare the Asari who have been allies with the Turians for centuries with the Krogan who don't even have a central government let alone any external political connections. It just makes the Asari look worse

The source is the conversation with Hackett after Priority: Tuchanka, plus all the new war assets. Also, nobody else was helping the war that early.

After they themselves are attacked they do nothing as a unified political entity until the after the Reapers come knocking on their door.

An outright lie. They contribute everything after the success on Tuchanka and realizing that Hackett's coalition will actually get things done.

Pretty sure that no-one else signed up for the Salarians to have a rerun of the Krogan Rebellions except with even more powerful enemies.

So you're playing favourites - that's not a healthy attitude for something as powerful as the Reapers to take and will create at least as many problems long term as it solves.

I'm providing aid to those who need it.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I care what happens to him. So, you know what? Screw BioWare. I'll write Omega myself and toss in a reformed Cerberus and a Miranda I don't want to strangle.

Looking forward to that story. I'm sure it's worthy to be canonized.

@Xilizhra:
I'm out of this debate. Whatever I think of the asari and their culture as a whole, I maintain the information about the beacon needs to get out. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 novembre 2012 - 04:34 .

[paul165]

Xilizhra wrote...

Sorry source? But even if so given that the Alliance and the Turians are screwed at the beginning of act one that's hardly a major achievement. Also please stop trying to compare the Asari who have been allies with the Turians for centuries with the Krogan who don't even have a central government let alone any external political connections. It just makes the Asari look worse

The source is the conversation with Hackett after Priority: Tuchanka, plus all the new war assets. Also, nobody else was helping the war that early.

After they themselves are attacked they do nothing as a unified political entity until the after the Reapers come knocking on their door.

An outright lie. They contribute everything after the success on Tuchanka and realizing that Hackett's coalition will actually get things done.

Pretty sure that no-one else signed up for the Salarians to have a rerun of the Krogan Rebellions except with even more powerful enemies.

So you're playing favourites - that's not a healthy attitude for something as powerful as the Reapers to take and will create at least as many problems long term as it solves.

I'm providing aid to those who need it.

Think we are going to have to disagree about well almost everything because at this point we're both playing semantic games rather than moving forward. I think the fundamental problem is that we ascribe different priorities to the AI freedom and self determination (me) vs. peace and unity (you). Both are worthy goals but rather incompatable in this situation.

[wright1978]

Well if Petrovsky is character assassinated i'll pass this DLC and imagine my own story for Omega.

As for Asari. The Beacon info has to come out imo. The actions of a handful of Asari matriachs should be just as mainstream as the actions of TIM and should be learned from. My Shep will try and stop a witchhunt against other members of Asari government just as he will try and stop a witchhunt against people with links to cerberus.

[Falaxe]

Omega is a shooter DLC, nothing more. So ofc Petrovsky will die like all other "bad guys"... Did you honestly think you could choose to kill him or leave him alive, like we used to in ME1?

Modifié par Falaxe, 13 novembre 2012 - 05:09 .