968 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

Seival wrote...

Do you know that literal translation of the name "Oleg" is "Sacred", or "Dedicated to the Gods"?

...Just out loud thoughts

In which language?

Cause, Oleg is a Eastern Slavic name and it defiantly doesn't mean sacred in any Eastern Slavic language.

[Ieldra]

Just returning from a tabletop RPG session to find all this hubbub about the trailer.

All I have to say is this: I resent how Aria's thugs are built up as the good guys, but Petrovsky is not derailed yet. I'd postpone any epic rants until I know more.

[CroGamer002]

Though, I already have issues with Bioware's writting.

Aria giving a speech?
To criminals?
HA?!
That's just dumb.

Even in Pirates of Caribbean that one speech was dumb, movie you shouldn't take seriously.

[DeinonSlayer]

Mesina2 wrote...

Though, I already have issues with Bioware's writting.

Aria giving a speech?
To criminals?
HA?!
That's just dumb.

Even in Pirates of Caribbean that one speech was dumb, movie you shouldn't take seriously.

Yeah... is a Colonist Shepard who watched slavers kill his family supposed to be inspired watching Aria deliver a speech to rile up similar ilk?

[RiouHotaru]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Just returning from a tabletop RPG session to find all this hubbub about the trailer.

All I have to say is this: I resent how Aria's thugs are built up as the good guys, but Petrovsky is not derailed yet. I'd postpone any epic rants until I know more.

Becaused compared to Cerberus, her thugs are saints.  It's more the lesser of two evils than anything else.

[Ieldra]

Hmph.

I just read that bit about executing civilians and sending the ringleaders to processing. Doesn't sound like the Petrovsky from ME:Invasion. I am....concerned.

And yeah, I agree about Aria's speech.

What I find highly resent-worthy is: the trash from Omega finds a reasonably honorable course of action, but a reasonably honorable Cerberus leader isn't allowed to keep his.

[Ieldra]

If what I fear - and, sad to say, expect - does materialize I'm going to say a few things about the ME3 team and their artistic integrity.

[CroGamer002]

I just hope Shepard will be aware of Aria being full of it.

[RiouHotaru]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Hmph.

I just read that bit about executing civilians and sending the ringleaders to processing. Doesn't sound like the Petrovsky from ME:Invasion. I am....concerned.

And yeah, I agree about Aria's speech.

What I find highly resent-worthy is: the trash from Omega finds a reasonably honorable course of action, but a reasonably honorable Cerberus leader isn't allowed to keep his.

He trehatened to blow up Omega if Aria didn't back off, did everyone forget that?  Just because he's a somewhat reasonable general who understands logistics and how to deal with people doesn't make him a nice person.

[MisterJB]

RiouHotaru wrote...
Becaused compared to Cerberus, her thugs are saints.  It's more the lesser of two evils than anything else.

That's nonsensical. Whatever evils Cerberus commited, they were done in the pursuit of the greater good for humanity. Most of the time, the lives helped justified the actions commited. Most of the time.
Aria and her thugs, kill, enslave, extort, rape, trafic drugs and an unending list of other unsavory things all in pursuit of their own selfish pleasures.
It bothers me that Bioware keeps trying to convince me Cerberus is somehow more evil that the gangs of Omega. If you think they are, that's fine. I don't, my Shepard doesn't and I'd wish Bioware would stay out of it, thank you very much.

[MisterJB]

RiouHotaru wrote...
He trehatened to blow up Omega if Aria didn't back off, did everyone forget that?  Just because he's a somewhat reasonable general who understands logistics and how to deal with people doesn't make him a nice person.

And he also said he would evacuate whatever civillians he could, did you forget that? And did you also forget he forbade the use of explosives because of the innocent living near the battlefield.
Omega is the capital of crime of the galaxy. Were I given the option of evacuating whatever innocents live there and blow the place to hell with Aria and all of her gangs inside, I'd take it.

Ideally, I'd let Oleg keep it so as to extablish a foothold of civilization in the Terminus.

Modifié par MisterJB, 26 novembre 2012 - 09:39 .

[grey_wind]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Hmph.

I just read that bit about executing civilians and sending the ringleaders to processing. Doesn't sound like the Petrovsky from ME:Invasion. I am....concerned.

And yeah, I agree about Aria's speech.

What I find highly resent-worthy is: the trash from Omega finds a reasonably honorable course of action, but a reasonably honorable Cerberus leader isn't allowed to keep his.

Don't worry. BioWare will give a highly detailed and thought-provoing reason for Petrovsky's descent into darkness.


INDOCTRINATIONNNNNNNNNNNN!!!

[RiouHotaru]

MisterJB wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Becaused compared to Cerberus, her thugs are saints.  It's more the lesser of two evils than anything else.

That's nonsensical. Whatever evils Cerberus commited, they were done in the pursuit of the greater good for humanity. Most of the time, the lives helped justified the actions commited. Most of the time.
Aria and her thugs, kill, enslave, extort, rape, trafic drugs and an unending list of other unsavory things all in pursuit of their own selfish pleasures.
It bothers me that Bioware keeps trying to convince me Cerberus is somehow more evil that the gangs of Omega. If you think they are, that's fine. I don't, my Shepard doesn't and I'd wish Bioware would stay out of it, thank you very much.

Oh boy, where do I start:

Sanctuary
Tetlin (Where Jack was made)
Project Overlord
UNC: Colony of the Dead
UNC: Cerberus/Hades' Dogs
Various CDN article/book examples of Cerberus doing horrific things

I'm not saying that Aria's thugs aren't bad, but at least they're helping me fight the Reapers, and they aren't deluding themselves into thinking they're actually helping anyone.  Bioware doesn't have to stay out of anything, the writing is on the wall, ignoring it because you handwave it doesn't make it not exist or downplay it's impact.

[CroGamer002]

Let's see what Oleg did to be called a merciless bastard:

He refused to use explosives to limit civilian casualties.
He refused to give suicidal orders to his troops.
He let Aria go unharmed to get her to lay arms, despite orders from Illusive Man to catch her dead or alive.
He tells Aria and Shepard nicely to turn back.


Yep, he's an merciless bastard.

[RiouHotaru]

Mesina2 wrote...

Let's see what Oleg did to be called a merciless bastard:

He refused to use explosives to limit civilian casualties.
He refused to give suicidal orders to his troops.
He let Aria go unharmed to get her to lay arms, despite orders from Illusive Man to catch her dead or alive.
He tells Aria and Shepard nicely to turn back.

Yep, he's an merciless bastard.

All you've proved is that he's a decent general, with a grasp of tactics and logistics, who has some common sense when it comes to engaging an enemy.  Again, does NOT make him a good person.

[Skullheart]

bw, and whoever wrotes this dlc is a merciless bastard or an ignorant who didn't read invasion.

[jstme]

Mesina2 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Do you know that literal translation of the name "Oleg" is "Sacred", or "Dedicated to the Gods"?

...Just out loud thoughts

In which language?

Cause, Oleg is a Eastern Slavic name and it defiantly doesn't mean sacred in any Eastern Slavic language.

Helge. Thanks to wiki.
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Helge_(name)

[MisterJB]

RiouHotaru wrote...
Oh boy, where do I start:
Sanctuary

In a war for the survival of the human species, refugees that would usually become strains on humanity's fighting ability, suddenly become our best soldiers. Justifiable.

Tetlin (Where Jack was made)

I know what Teltin is, thank you very much. And the experiments there were performed without Cerberus consent.

Project Overlord

Torture one single man and prevent a galactic war? It's quite the bargain.

UNC: Colony of the Dead

The logs make mention of a Cerberus agent buying samples, nothing else.
It wouldn't make sense for Cerberus to destroy a human colony and then just leave the Husks laying around. Thus, there is absolutely no reason to believe they did anything to that colony.

UNC: Cerberus/Hades' Dogs

Capture mindless husks and thorians and repurpose them into becoming expendable soldiers thus saving the lifes of actual, living human marines? What is wrong with that?

Various CDN article/book examples of Cerberus doing horrific things

Most of which were entirely justified.

I'm not saying that Aria's thugs aren't bad, but at least they're helping me fight the Reapers,

And Cerberus not doing the same is character assassination just so Shepard can have more things to shoot at.

Bioware doesn't have to stay out of anything, the writing is on the wall, ignoring it because you handwave it doesn't make it not exist or downplay it's impact.

I'm not ignoring anything nor is anything written on any wall. Your morality demands that you oppose Cerberus. My sense of morality make me wish I could join them.
In ME2, my Shepard could actually express wish in joining Cerberus which made sense since they used to be a complex and moraly ambigious organization that you could either hate or love. Removing player agency is not the trait of a good RPG.

Modifié par MisterJB, 26 novembre 2012 - 09:52 .

[Clayless]

You're vastly underestimating how badly this community would react to a choice between two renegade characters.

[RiouHotaru]

MisterJB wrote...

I'm not ignoring anything nor is anything written on any wall. Your morality demands that you oppose Cerberus. My sense of morality make me wish I could join them.
In ME2, my Shepard could actually express wish in joining Cerberus which made sense since they used to be a complex and morality ambigious organization that you could either hate or love. Removing player agency is not the trait of a good RPG.

But that's just it.  They were never complex or morally ambiguous.  Their actions involved the horrific experimentation and abuse of otherwise innocent people/aliens so that they could make humanity -the- dominant galactic superpower.  Renegade Shepard only expresses interest in Cerberus because Renegade Shepard has a very pro-human attitude, which falls neatly into Cerberus' doctrine.

You didn't have player agency removed by not being able to join them officially.  They were always going to be the antagonists from ME2 onward.  If you were expecting the level of player agency that would let you join the game's antagonists, then ME wasn't the game for you.  It's not -that- kind of RPG.

[timj2011]

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]RiouHotaru wrote...
Oh boy, where do I start:
Sanctuary[/quote]
In a war for the survival of the human species, refugees that would usually become strains on humanity's fighting ability, suddenly become our best soldiers. Justifiable.

[/quote][/quote]

Holy Cow! Did this guy just say Sanctuary was justifiable?

WAT

Tricking people into coming to this "haven'" and turning them into husks...ALL AT THE DETRIMENT OF THE WAR!

What do you mean "our best solders"? Cerberus did nothing but hurt Humanity and the rest of galactic society

Modifié par timj2011, 26 novembre 2012 - 10:04 .

[Clayless]

[quote]timj2011 wrote...

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]RiouHotaru wrote...
Oh boy, where do I start:
Sanctuary[/quote]
In a war for the survival of the human species, refugees that would usually become strains on humanity's fighting ability, suddenly become our best soldiers. Justifiable.

[/quote][/quote]

Holy Cow! Did this guy just say Sanctuary was justifiable?

WAT

Tricking people into coming to this "haven'" and turning them into husks...ALL AT THE DETRIMENT OF THE WAR!

What do you mean "our best solders"? Cerberus did nothing but hurt Humanity and the rest of galactic society


[/quote]

I think you're missing the point.

[timj2011]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

I think you're missing the point.

What would that be?

I'm not being confrontational, just curious. 

[MisterJB]

timj2011 wrote...
Holy Cow! Did this guy just say Sanctuary was justifiable?
WAT
Tricking people into coming to this "haven'" and turning them into husks...ALL AT THE DETRIMENT OF THE WAR!
What do you mean "our best solders"? Cerberus did nothing but hurt Humanity and the rest of galactic society

There was no detriment of the war if Bioware hadn't decided "lolindocrination".
Let's say that Cerberus had stayed the same as ME2. That is, an independent group that follows its own rules but are willing to work with aliens to save humanity. Their great contribution to the war effort are the Reaper Augmented troops that can outfight any Alliance Soldier. And they are doing a damn good job, helping retake and mantain strategically vital points. However, the source of these soldiers is still the same. People are tricked to go into Sanctuary and there they are transformed.
Would it be so unjustifiable then? Turning refugees who would strain our resources into combat ready soldiers? Keep in mind, if we lose, this is the end of the human race. There are no second chances or room for mistakes.

[Seival]

Mesina2 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Do you know that literal translation of the name "Oleg" is "Sacred", or "Dedicated to the Gods"?

...Just out loud thoughts

In which language?

Cause, Oleg is a Eastern Slavic name and it defiantly doesn't mean sacred in any Eastern Slavic language.

Oleg (Russian: Олег), Oleh (Ukrainian: Олег), or Aleh (Belarusian: Алег) is a Slavic given name. It derives from the Old Norse Helgi (Helge), meaning "holy", "sacred", or "blessed". The feminine equivalent is Olga.

Modifié par Seival, 26 novembre 2012 - 10:13 .