968 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

You're vastly underestimating how badly this community would react to a choice between two renegade characters.

It is my firm belief that most of the ending controversy originates in the fact no choice is truly "Paragon".

[Skullheart]

timj2011 wrote...

What do you mean "our best solders"? Cerberus did nothing but hurt Humanity and the rest of galactic society

Yeah, Cerberus created the genophage, they have been using a secret prothean beacon, they started a war against a synthetic race that didn't mean any harm to organics, they ignored three years of warnings, they use primitive races as tools, they have happy trigger fleets, they plant nukes on planets, etc.

Modifié par Skullheart, 26 novembre 2012 - 10:13 .

[grey_wind]

MisterJB wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

You're vastly underestimating how badly this community would react to a choice between two renegade characters.

It is my firm belief that most of the ending controversy originates in the fact no choice is truly "Paragon".

Perhaps it is for some people.

My gripes with the ending have more to do with its narrative problems and the complete thematic butchery Star-Jar and his "inevitable conflict" bring to the MEverse.

[DeinonSlayer]

MisterJB wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

You're vastly underestimating how badly this community would react to a choice between two renegade characters.

It is my firm belief that most of the ending controversy originates in the fact no choice is truly "Paragon".

It is pretty pathetic to see threads on here with people begging for an answer about which is the "paragon" ending. As if letting the game dictate what you say, do, and think through the entire trilogy isn't bad enough, some people were acting like puppets with their strings cut because the game wasn't holding them by the hand, telling them what to do anymore.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 26 novembre 2012 - 10:15 .

[Clayless]

timj2011 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

I think you're missing the point.

What would that be?

I'm not being confrontational, just curious. 

That not everyone hates Cerberus and how evil they are is subjective.

[MisterJB]

RiouHotaru wrote...
But that's just it.  They were never complex or morally ambiguous.  Their actions involved the horrific experimentation and abuse of otherwise innocent people/aliens so that they could make humanity -the- dominant galactic superpower.  Renegade Shepard only expresses interest in Cerberus because Renegade Shepard has a very pro-human attitude, which falls neatly into Cerberus' doctrine.

You didn't have player agency removed by not being able to join them officially.  They were always going to be the antagonists from ME2 onward.  If you were expecting the level of player agency that would let you join the game's antagonists, then ME wasn't the game for you.  It's not -that- kind of RPG.

They were not antagonists into ME2. I've already justified how these "horrifics experimentations" are entirely justified. You simply can't accept it because you look at the world differently.
You do realize every single race in the galaxy does the very same thing for the very same reasons, right? Salarians experiments on other species. The turians planted a bomb on Tuchanka. The asari hide prothean technology while punishing anyone who does the same. Spectres commit assassinations and acts of terrorism daily. And all of them do this because they wish their race to be dominant. But you don't seem to consider them antagonists.
This is good, Taking these actions make these government more realistic. I am upset, however, that Cerberus was singled out into holding the "Idiot Villain" ball.

[timj2011]

MisterJB wrote...

There was no detriment of the war if Bioware hadn't decided "lolindocrination".

Well, if BW didn't go that route, sanctuary would have never been in the story

And I like ME2 Cerberus. They're are just a bit misunderstood

[dreman9999]

grey_wind wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

You're vastly underestimating how badly this community would react to a choice between two renegade characters.

It is my firm belief that most of the ending controversy originates in the fact no choice is truly "Paragon".

Perhaps it is for some people.

My gripes with the ending have more to do with its narrative problems and the complete thematic butchery Star-Jar and his "inevitable conflict" bring to the MEverse.

We forgetting here that the catalyst is progremmed to think that way, thus being forced to think that way, and we had many conflict with organics and synthic in the series.

[timj2011]

Skullheart wrote...

timj2011 wrote...

What do you mean "our best solders"? Cerberus did nothing but hurt Humanity and the rest of galactic society

Yeah, Cerberus created the genophage, they have been using a secret prothean beacon, they started a war against a synthetic race that didn't mean any harm to organics, they ignored three years of warnings, they use primitive races as tools, they have happy trigger fleets, they plant nukes on planets, etc.

I was saying that in the context of what they did with Sanctuary. I am pro ME2 Cerberus

[dreman9999]

 This may put a wrench in the "butchered" character theory.
https://twitter.com/Omega_Cerberus


"The civilized being prizes freedom above all. Yet civilization itself is only possible through unyielding discipline."- General Petrovsky

Modifié par dreman9999, 26 novembre 2012 - 10:19 .

[MisterJB]

timj2011 wrote...
Well, if BW didn't go that route, sanctuary would have never been in the story

Why? Sanctuary makes sense from a strategic viewpoint for reasons I've already explained in the post you quoted.

[dreman9999]

timj2011 wrote...

Skullheart wrote...

timj2011 wrote...

What do you mean "our best solders"? Cerberus did nothing but hurt Humanity and the rest of galactic society

Yeah, Cerberus created the genophage, they have been using a secret prothean beacon, they started a war against a synthetic race that didn't mean any harm to organics, they ignored three years of warnings, they use primitive races as tools, they have happy trigger fleets, they plant nukes on planets, etc.

I was saying that in the context of what they did with Sanctuary. I am pro ME2 Cerberus

ME1, Cerberus does experiment on People ageinst their will.
ME2,Cerberus does experiment on People ageinst their will.
me3, Cerberus does experiment on People ageinst their will.

...Did something change?

[dreman9999]

MisterJB wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
But that's just it.  They were never complex or morally ambiguous.  Their actions involved the horrific experimentation and abuse of otherwise innocent people/aliens so that they could make humanity -the- dominant galactic superpower.  Renegade Shepard only expresses interest in Cerberus because Renegade Shepard has a very pro-human attitude, which falls neatly into Cerberus' doctrine.

You didn't have player agency removed by not being able to join them officially.  They were always going to be the antagonists from ME2 onward.  If you were expecting the level of player agency that would let you join the game's antagonists, then ME wasn't the game for you.  It's not -that- kind of RPG.

They were not antagonists into ME2. I've already justified how these "horrifics experimentations" are entirely justified. You simply can't accept it because you look at the world differently.
You do realize every single race in the galaxy does the very same thing for the very same reasons, right? Salarians experiments on other species. The turians planted a bomb on Tuchanka. The asari hide prothean technology while punishing anyone who does the same. Spectres commit assassinations and acts of terrorism daily. And all of them do this because they wish their race to be dominant. But you don't seem to consider them antagonists.
This is good, Taking these actions make these government more realistic. I am upset, however, that Cerberus was singled out into holding the "Idiot Villain" ball.

Just because the means is justified by the end does not mean the means is right and moral. Cerberus has just asmuch justification of there actions in me3 as much me2 and 1.

[CroGamer002]

Seival wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Do you know that literal translation of the name "Oleg" is "Sacred", or "Dedicated to the Gods"?

...Just out loud thoughts

In which language?

Cause, Oleg is a Eastern Slavic name and it defiantly doesn't mean sacred in any Eastern Slavic language.

Oleg (Russian: Олег), Oleh (Ukrainian: Олег), or Aleh (Belarusian: Алег) is a Slavic given name. It derives from the Old Norse Helgi (Helge), meaning "holy", "sacred", or "blessed". The feminine equivalent is Olga.

Ah, thanks.

Though I think it's a pure accident.

I think Super MAC just went for random name generator.
Plus, odd one too since Petrovsky ain't Russian but Ukranian surname.
But then again, Ukranians do have significant population in Russia.

[MisterJB]

dreman9999 wrote...
ME1, Cerberus does experiment on People ageinst their will.
ME2,Cerberus does experiment on People ageinst their will.
me3, Cerberus does experiment on People ageinst their will.
...Did something change?

A lot. For instance, ME3Cerberus killing its best scientists for no purpose at all or occupying entire colonies rather than send convert agents to recover valuable data.
Not to mention "lolindocrination" meant to justify creating an army of faceless mooks for Shepard to shoot at.

[CroGamer002]

dreman9999 wrote...

 This may put a wrench in the "butchered" character theory.
https://twitter.com/Omega_Cerberus


"The civilized being prizes freedom above all. Yet civilization itself is only possible through unyielding discipline."- General Petrovsky

Not really, many good people that serve in military in real life and all around world, have that kind of idea of life.

Mainly since, well, military's work that way and they are in fact own society. So they do effect people that way.

[Skullheart]

MisterJB wrote...

Not to mention "lolindocrination" meant to justify creating an army of faceless mooks for Shepard to shoot at.

supermac needed humanoid targets to kill. Is a shame he didn't thought in something more reasonable (indoctrinated batarians).

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
ME1, Cerberus does experiment on People ageinst their will.
ME2,Cerberus does experiment on People ageinst their will.
me3, Cerberus does experiment on People ageinst their will.
...Did something change?

A lot. For instance, ME3Cerberus killing its best scientists for no purpose at all or occupying entire colonies rather than send convert agents to recover valuable data.
Not to mention "lolindocrination" meant to justify creating an army of faceless mooks for Shepard to shoot at.

And let us not forget trying to launch a pointless coup, along with trying to sabotage the krogan/turian alliance. Both which would undermine their own agenda.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
That not everyone hates Cerberus and how evil they are is subjective.

Bioware pushed the Cerberus is mustache twirling evil thing not us. TIM being indoctrinated was a waste of a character, and potential plot line.

[General User]

MisterJB wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
But that's just it.  They were never complex or morally ambiguous.  Their actions involved the horrific experimentation and abuse of otherwise innocent people/aliens so that they could make humanity -the- dominant galactic superpower.  Renegade Shepard only expresses interest in Cerberus because Renegade Shepard has a very pro-human attitude, which falls neatly into Cerberus' doctrine.

You didn't have player agency removed by not being able to join them officially.  They were always going to be the antagonists from ME2 onward.  If you were expecting the level of player agency that would let you join the game's antagonists, then ME wasn't the game for you.  It's not -that- kind of RPG.

They were not antagonists into ME2. I've already justified how these "horrifics experimentations" are entirely justified. You simply can't accept it because you look at the world differently.
You do realize every single race in the galaxy does the very same thing for the very same reasons, right? Salarians experiments on other species. The turians planted a bomb on Tuchanka. The asari hide prothean technology while punishing anyone who does the same. Spectres commit assassinations and acts of terrorism daily. And all of them do this because they wish their race to be dominant. But you don't seem to consider them antagonists.
This is good, Taking these actions make these government more realistic. I am upset, however, that Cerberus was singled out into holding the "Idiot Villain" ball.

That's very true.  There are half a dozen species and/or organizations in the MEverse that were just as, if not far better suited (particualrly in terms of lore) to fill the role of villians for ME3, including the Council itself.

[dreman9999]

MisterJB wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
ME1, Cerberus does experiment on People ageinst their will.
ME2,Cerberus does experiment on People ageinst their will.
me3, Cerberus does experiment on People ageinst their will.
...Did something change?

A lot. For instance, ME3Cerberus killing its best scientists for no purpose at all or occupying entire colonies rather than send convert agents to recover valuable data.
Not to mention "lolindocrination" meant to justify creating an army of faceless mooks for Shepard to shoot at.

Right, because they weren't doing that in ME1 or 2.Wilson would agree they don't just randomly kill their Scientist.
Cerberus had a reason in ME3, you just don't agree with those reasons

Hell, even the army has a reason.  It's just a case we don't agree with TIM on his actions. Cerberus isan extremist group.Hech, even the codex on them says they were stockpiling on weapons and ships for years.

[Joe Del Toro]

Well my personal vi-

MegaSovereign wrote...

I miss the good ol' days when we could speculate what future DLC could bring us and when Taboo was just a chicken.

Wait, what? 

[dreman9999]

General User wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
But that's just it.  They were never complex or morally ambiguous.  Their actions involved the horrific experimentation and abuse of otherwise innocent people/aliens so that they could make humanity -the- dominant galactic superpower.  Renegade Shepard only expresses interest in Cerberus because Renegade Shepard has a very pro-human attitude, which falls neatly into Cerberus' doctrine.

You didn't have player agency removed by not being able to join them officially.  They were always going to be the antagonists from ME2 onward.  If you were expecting the level of player agency that would let you join the game's antagonists, then ME wasn't the game for you.  It's not -that- kind of RPG.

They were not antagonists into ME2. I've already justified how these "horrifics experimentations" are entirely justified. You simply can't accept it because you look at the world differently.
You do realize every single race in the galaxy does the very same thing for the very same reasons, right? Salarians experiments on other species. The turians planted a bomb on Tuchanka. The asari hide prothean technology while punishing anyone who does the same. Spectres commit assassinations and acts of terrorism daily. And all of them do this because they wish their race to be dominant. But you don't seem to consider them antagonists.
This is good, Taking these actions make these government more realistic. I am upset, however, that Cerberus was singled out into holding the "Idiot Villain" ball.

That's very true.  There are half a dozen species and/or organizations in the MEverse that were just as, if not far better suited (particualrly in terms of lore) to fill the role of villians for ME3, including the Council itself.

That make no sense. Why would any race or other organization be the villian over an extremist group?

[GreyLycanTrope]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

Well my personal vi-

MegaSovereign wrote...

I miss the good ol' days when we could speculate what future DLC could bring us and when Taboo was just a chicken.

Wait, what? 

He's changed man, now he's angry Sheploo.

[JPR1964]

Mumba1511 wrote...

You know very well how Omega will turn out...
Right?

+500 EMS?

JPR out!