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[RiouHotaru]

MisterJB wrote...

Nickname Failure wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The tweets keep painting Petrovsky going after civillians; which he specifically forbid in Invasion; while the Talons; a bloody gang; protecting them.
It's so nonsensical it's not even funny.

I smell propaganda made by the Talons.

The twitters are starting to feel like slow torture. With each one, hope dims.

Did it ever occur to ANYONE at all that Petrovsky going this direction is specifically because he realizes he cannot control Omega any other way?  Do you really think being fair and honest would work on Omega, where everyone was use to Aria holding their leashes as tight as possible?  If Petrovsky gave them slack (which he likely did) they took -huge- advantage of it.

And there's absolutely NOTHING that states that he enjoys doing this.  He's a man trying to assert control and authority over a situation where the ONLY authority is force and threats.  He's falling into the "I have to do this for the greater good" trap, I'm sure.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...
Detonating the bomb on Tuchanka and blaming it on the Turians also prevents Shepard from gaining the alliances he needs.

And Udina was likely indoctrinated, as EDI suggested, which you conveniently left out. If not, you can chalk it up to the fact that he is not a military creature. He doesn't know the first thing about war strategy, and Cerberus manipulated that for their own agenda.

Reaper Gains: Udina seizes power => Sends all Council militaries to Earth => Reapers kick their asses => Galaxy left defenseless.

Cerberus Gains: Udina seizes power => Sends all Council Militaries to Earth => Reapers kick their asses => A lot less aliens in the galaxy and Shepard doesn't get the support he needs => Cerberus operates unopposed.

You are aware that in the after action report for the renegade conclusion to TIM's loyalty mission. TIM expresses deep concern over the destruction of the data, since he fears that without it, a cure for the genophage might be impossible and they would have to rely on far weaker vorchas.

Also. It is in TIM's best interest to NOT sabotage the Turian/Krogan alliance, nor have Udina send the council fleet to Earth. Since either of those would leave a far weaker galaxy, meaning that the Reapers will advance and conquer far quicker, meaning that Horizon has a far greater chance of being busted by the Reapers before he can conjure up the ability to control the Reapers.

The mission summaries in ME2 were reports TO the Illusive Man. Not his actual thoughts.

One of his men thought they'd need the Genophage cured to help fight the Reapers.

Also when the Illusive Man asks you to salvage the base, he basically shows that all of his acting from before was just that, an act. Shepard may have cost him billions of credits, but the Collector and Reaper technology was what he really wanted. Shepard was just a tool to attain them.

As stated in Ascension, getting Collector tech as payment from a deal is like winning the lottery.

The impression I got was that they were written by TIM, since in some of them like the ones after Haestorm I think it states that he gives out orders for sending forces to observe Geth forces. Somethink I doubt anyone other than TIM could. And even if they were not written by TIM, that does not change the fact that it is in his best interest not to sabotage the allied front unless when necessary (like on Thessia).

And the rest of your post has no relevance whatsoever.

The Grey Nayr wrote...

But when he decided he could control the Reapers instead, his opinion changed because he knew Shepard and Anderson would never agree to it.He even tries pitching his plan to Shepard , then gets angry every time Shepard criticizes it.

Remember, those thoughts he had were before he saw the benefits of replicating Grayson and building an army.

You are missing the point. It was argued that he launched the coup and tried to sabotage the alliance out of spite for the Turians. Which I argued against because TIM is shown not to be petty that way, he will gladly work with his opponents or atleast not get in their way if he can benefit from it.

[Berg]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Did you miss the part where everybody in Cerberus became indoctrinated?

This is exactly what many people were hoping against:

"Here is a complex character, showing the clash between idealisim and loyalty. On the one hand bound to Cerberus, on the other valuing human life and striving to minim - no wait, he is indoctrinated!! Shoot him in the face!!!"

Modifié par oh brother, 27 novembre 2012 - 10:49 .

[WhiteKnyght]

oh brother wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Did you miss the part where everybody in Cerberus became indoctrinated?

This is exactly what many people were hoping against:

"Here is a complex character, showing the clash between idealisim and loyalty. On the one hand bound to Cerberus, on the other valuing human life and striving to minim - no wait, he is indoctrinated!! Shoot him in the face!!!"

Don't you think it was a little odd that he has the eyes of a husk all the way back in ME2? And ME Evolution showed that he was zapped by a Reaper artifact before he even officially founded Cerberus.

Even in Mass Effect 2, he denies knowing about David Archer and Jack when they were happening, and claims he shut down the projects when he learned, but when you unshackle EDI, she's allowed to talk about Cerberus(she had programming blocks that kept her from revealing ANYTHING) and she tells you that Cerberus has no more than twelve operations running at a single time, because The Illusive Man likes to oversee every project personally. That pretty much confirms what a liar he is before you even finish the game.

And in Ascension and Retribution, he shows he's willing to experiment on children(GIllian Grayson,) and steal them from their families(Gillian's real family is unknown, presuably kidnapped like Jack.) And he uses fulfills his vendetta against Paul Grayson and does horrid experiments at the same time.

Not to mention there's the fact that Cerberus destroyed Akuze just to study thresher maws. And all the things Tela Vasir tells you about them before she bites it.

So the Illusive Man has always had a careless disregard for life just like the Reapers. He's just very deceptive.

[N7Dropout1]

In the comic, Petrovsky goes out of his way to stop bloodshed and even saves Aria's life at one point, even when she was about to execute him. Aria on the other hand wages a bloodthirsty war and sacrifices many lives trying to take back Omega before being driven off. Petrovsky even displays concern and a sort of disbelief at the Illusive Man's plans for Omega and the events of the comics. He isn't portrayed as a bad guy at all and even stands against his more racist subcommander in the storyline and shows respect for the alien races.

For a Paragon Shep, it makes sense that Petrovsky would be someone you can reason with and make a truce with at the end. Why would a Paragon Shep give Omega back to Aria? She's a mass murdering psychopath.

[dreman9999]

Spoiler....




You can save Petrovsky.

[Berg]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

oh brother wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Did you miss the part where everybody in Cerberus became indoctrinated?

This is exactly what many people were hoping against:

"Here is a complex character, showing the clash between idealisim and loyalty. On the one hand bound to Cerberus, on the other valuing human life and striving to minim - no wait, he is indoctrinated!! Shoot him in the face!!!"

Don't you think it was a little odd that he has the eyes of a husk all the way back in ME2? And ME Evolution showed that he was zapped by a Reaper artifact before he even officially founded Cerberus.

Even in Mass Effect 2, he denies knowing about David Archer and Jack when they were happening, and claims he shut down the projects when he learned, but when you unshackle EDI, she's allowed to talk about Cerberus(she had programming blocks that kept her from revealing ANYTHING) and she tells you that Cerberus has no more than twelve operations running at a single time, because The Illusive Man likes to oversee every project personally. That pretty much confirms what a liar he is before you even finish the game.

And in Ascension and Retribution, he shows he's willing to experiment on children(GIllian Grayson,) and steal them from their families(Gillian's real family is unknown, presuably kidnapped like Jack.) And he uses fulfills his vendetta against Paul Grayson and does horrid experiments at the same time.

Not to mention there's the fact that Cerberus destroyed Akuze just to study thresher maws. And all the things Tela Vasir tells you about them before she bites it.

So the Illusive Man has always had a careless disregard for life just like the Reapers. He's just very deceptive.

Yes indeed, TIM clearly always was a villian. My comment was about Petrovsky though, that I didn't want to see an interesting character reduced to another indoctrination plot line (and I am still holding out hope that this won't happen).

[Ieldra]

N7Dropout1 wrote...
In the comic, Petrovsky goes out of his way to stop bloodshed and even saves Aria's life at one point, even when she was about to execute him. Aria on the other hand wages a bloodthirsty war and sacrifices many lives trying to take back Omega before being driven off. Petrovsky even displays concern and a sort of disbelief at the Illusive Man's plans for Omega and the events of the comics. He isn't portrayed as a bad guy at all and even stands against his more racist subcommander in the storyline and shows respect for the alien races.

For a Paragon Shep, it makes sense that Petrovsky would be someone you can reason with and make a truce with at the end. Why would a Paragon Shep give Omega back to Aria? She's a mass murdering psychopath.

Exactly.

And I'm hearing there are good news about Petrovsky. Wow, a positive surprise about ME content! That has been rather rare.

[Ieldra]

People are telling me Shepard is autodialogued into rejecting Oleg's offer of friendship because he was working for Cerberus.

So....can anyone confirm this can't be avoided? What an idiotic thing to say, as if Shepard didn't work for Cerberus in ME2. Annnd...what about Miranda? Shepard slept with the Cerberus 2IC after all. Did someone brainwash Shepard - *my* Shepard - between games?

Just as I was finding some good news, Bioware's new approach to roleplaying - telling MY character what he's thinking - kicks in again and ruins everything.

[JeffZero]

Aw, that's lamer than that line with Gavin Archer in Jacob's mission if true.

[RiouHotaru]

Ieldra2 wrote...

People are telling me Shepard is autodialogued into rejecting Oleg's offer of friendship because he was working for Cerberus.

So....can anyone confirm this can't be avoided? What an idiotic thing to say, as if Shepard didn't work for Cerberus in ME2. Annnd...what about Miranda? Shepard slept with the Cerberus 2IC after all. Did someone brainwash Shepard - *my* Shepard - between games?

Just as I was finding some good news, Bioware's new approach to roleplaying - telling MY character what he's thinking - kicks in again and ruins everything.

...Why in the world would you -want- to take Oleg's offer?  It's pretty much a known fact that Cerberus in ME2 wasn't being morally ambiguous because that's what they are.  They were morally ambiguous to deceive Shepard.  Knowing this, why would you take that offer in good conscience?

And you can't use Invasion as evidence because that's technically meta-gaming.  Also, saying that rejecting the offer is "auto-dialoged" is a ridiculous choice of words.  Not every time a character asks Shepard a question does it need to be a decision you make.  Even if they let you make that decision, it'd likely just be Paragon refusal or Renegade refusal.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Ieldra2 wrote...

People are telling me Shepard is autodialogued into rejecting Oleg's offer of friendship because he was working for Cerberus.

So....can anyone confirm this can't be avoided? What an idiotic thing to say, as if Shepard didn't work for Cerberus in ME2. Annnd...what about Miranda? Shepard slept with the Cerberus 2IC after all. Did someone brainwash Shepard - *my* Shepard - between games?

Just as I was finding some good news, Bioware's new approach to roleplaying - telling MY character what he's thinking - kicks in again and ruins everything.

And just like that, the magic was gone.

Welcome to "Gears of Effect". My hope is dimming for the sequel. Oh, well, maybe another company will take up the slack in the RPG department. It seems like Call of Duty is headed in that directrion.

BW: We need to target the Call of Duty market.

Call of Duty: Do you see all those RPGers that are dissatisfied with Bioware? Let's start putting choices that matter in our games.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 27 novembre 2012 - 09:30 .

[clennon8]

It's kind of heartening to see that more and more people are getting ticked about ME3. Good job Bioware. Keep digging that grave for a once beloved franchise.

Modifié par clennon8, 27 novembre 2012 - 09:34 .

[Steelcan]

@RiouHotaru. Cerberus used sympathetic faces to get Shepard invested. They were still ambiguous. They believed in a noble goal, advancing humanity, and achieved it by less than heroic means.

[Steelcan]

Ieldra2 wrote...

People are telling me Shepard is autodialogued into rejecting Oleg's offer of friendship because he was working for Cerberus.

So....can anyone confirm this can't be avoided? What an idiotic thing to say, as if Shepard didn't work for Cerberus in ME2. Annnd...what about Miranda? Shepard slept with the Cerberus 2IC after all. Did someone brainwash Shepard - *my* Shepard - between games?

Just as I was finding some good news, Bioware's new approach to roleplaying - telling MY character what he's thinking - kicks in again and ruins everything.

. Autodialouge   BioWare really wants us to hate Cerberus.

that said, in order to play the devil's advocate, if you do Omega after Sanctuary I think there is some justification in saying that.  I disagree with it, but there is a rationale.

[RiouHotaru]

Steelcan wrote...

@RiouHotaru. Cerberus used sympathetic faces to get Shepard invested. They were still ambiguous. They believed in a noble goal, advancing humanity, and achieved it by less than heroic means.

Less than heroic is an understatement.

It's hilarious that anytime the player doesn't get the option to choose what Shepard says over ANYTHING, it's "autodialog"

It's starting to become a buzzword.  I'm sorry, not every single Shepard is going to be accounted for, stop expecting absolute control.

[Steelcan]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@RiouHotaru. Cerberus used sympathetic faces to get Shepard invested. They were still ambiguous. They believed in a noble goal, advancing humanity, and achieved it by less than heroic means.

Less than heroic is an understatement.

It's hilarious that anytime the player doesn't get the option to choose what Shepard says over ANYTHING, it's "autodialog"

It's starting to become a buzzword.  I'm sorry, not every single Shepard is going to be accounted for, stop expecting absolute control.

.  When it comes to interactions with important characters be they allies or enemies I'd like to be able to make my own opinions, not be told what I think.

Modifié par Steelcan, 27 novembre 2012 - 09:48 .

[RiouHotaru]

Steelcan wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@RiouHotaru. Cerberus used sympathetic faces to get Shepard invested. They were still ambiguous. They believed in a noble goal, advancing humanity, and achieved it by less than heroic means.

Less than heroic is an understatement.

It's hilarious that anytime the player doesn't get the option to choose what Shepard says over ANYTHING, it's "autodialog"

It's starting to become a buzzword.  I'm sorry, not every single Shepard is going to be accounted for, stop expecting absolute control.

.  When it comes to interactions with important characters be they allies or enemies I'd like to be able to make my own opinions, not be told what I think.

Then you're going to be disappointed.  Again, it's impossible to account for every single type of Shepard.

[Ieldra]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

People are telling me Shepard is autodialogued into rejecting Oleg's offer of friendship because he was working for Cerberus.

So....can anyone confirm this can't be avoided? What an idiotic thing to say, as if Shepard didn't work for Cerberus in ME2. Annnd...what about Miranda? Shepard slept with the Cerberus 2IC after all. Did someone brainwash Shepard - *my* Shepard - between games?

Just as I was finding some good news, Bioware's new approach to roleplaying - telling MY character what he's thinking - kicks in again and ruins everything.

...Why in the world would you -want- to take Oleg's offer?  It's pretty much a known fact that Cerberus in ME2 wasn't being morally ambiguous because that's what they are.  They were morally ambiguous to deceive Shepard.  Knowing this, why would you take that offer in good conscience?

And you can't use Invasion as evidence because that's technically meta-gaming.  Also, saying that rejecting the offer is "auto-dialoged" is a ridiculous choice of words.  Not every time a character asks Shepard a question does it need to be a decision you make.  Even if they let you make that decision, it'd likely just be Paragon refusal or Renegade refusal.

I wouldn't necessarily want to take the offer. Of course you might not want to be instant friends with a man you've been fighting. The point is, there is one person Shepard can possibly like (or even love) who's been Cerberus 2IC, and he's been working for them as well. Brynn Cole and her people have been working for Cerberus. So that's an idiotic reason to reject the offer. Also I'd like to be noncommittal.

I think forcing such a line is so incredibly dumb that I suspect there might be a trigger to switch it to a different one. Perhaps by Paragon/Renegade. If that damned downlowd didn't take six hours and more I would've seen it for myself by now.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 novembre 2012 - 09:59 .

[RiouHotaru]

Ieldra2 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

People are telling me Shepard is autodialogued into rejecting Oleg's offer of friendship because he was working for Cerberus.

So....can anyone confirm this can't be avoided? What an idiotic thing to say, as if Shepard didn't work for Cerberus in ME2. Annnd...what about Miranda? Shepard slept with the Cerberus 2IC after all. Did someone brainwash Shepard - *my* Shepard - between games?

Just as I was finding some good news, Bioware's new approach to roleplaying - telling MY character what he's thinking - kicks in again and ruins everything.

...Why in the world would you -want- to take Oleg's offer?  It's pretty much a known fact that Cerberus in ME2 wasn't being morally ambiguous because that's what they are.  They were morally ambiguous to deceive Shepard.  Knowing this, why would you take that offer in good conscience?

And you can't use Invasion as evidence because that's technically meta-gaming.  Also, saying that rejecting the offer is "auto-dialoged" is a ridiculous choice of words.  Not every time a character asks Shepard a question does it need to be a decision you make.  Even if they let you make that decision, it'd likely just be Paragon refusal or Renegade refusal.

I wouldn't necessarily want to take the offer. Of course you might not want to be instant friends with a man you've been fighting. The point is, there is one person Shepard can possibly like (or even love) who's been Cerberus 2IC, and he's been working for them as well. Brynn Cole and her people have been working for Cerberus. So that's an idiotic reason to reject the offer. Also I'd like to be noncommittal.

I think forcing such a line is so incredibly dumb that I suspect there might be a trigger to switch it to a different one. Perhaps by Paragon/Renegade. If that damned downlowd didn't take six hours and more I would've seen it for myself by now.

Admittedly, I'm having the same issue.  For whatever reason my download speeds with regards to Omega have been shot.

[Steelcan]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
@RiouHotaru. Cerberus used sympathetic faces to get Shepard invested. They were still ambiguous. They believed in a noble goal, advancing humanity, and achieved it by less than heroic means.

Less than heroic is an understatement.
It's hilarious that anytime the player doesn't get the option to choose what Shepard says over ANYTHING, it's "autodialog"
It's starting to become a buzzword.  I'm sorry, not every single Shepard is going to be accounted for, stop expecting absolute control.

.  When it comes to interactions with important characters be they allies or enemies I'd like to be able to make my own opinions, not be told what I think.

Then you're going to be disappointed.  Again, it's impossible to account for every single type of Shepard.

. Oh, I've been disappointed plenty.  And how hard is it to put in dialogue that has Shepard agreeing with TIM, or slamming the Asari, that accounts for different view points.

[Nerevar-as]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@RiouHotaru. Cerberus used sympathetic faces to get Shepard invested. They were still ambiguous. They believed in a noble goal, advancing humanity, and achieved it by less than heroic means.

Less than heroic is an understatement.

It's hilarious that anytime the player doesn't get the option to choose what Shepard says over ANYTHING, it's "autodialog"

It's starting to become a buzzword.  I'm sorry, not every single Shepard is going to be accounted for, stop expecting absolute control.

.  When it comes to interactions with important characters be they allies or enemies I'd like to be able to make my own opinions, not be told what I think.

Then you're going to be disappointed.  Again, it's impossible to account for every single type of Shepard.

There´s that, and there´s being told I had sent TIM to hell after giving him the CB. It´s not just Cerberus has gone into card-carrying villainy, it´s that we can´t even agree to what they (in theory, because in practice...) stood for before ME2.

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

People are telling me Shepard is autodialogued into rejecting Oleg's offer of friendship because he was working for Cerberus.

So....can anyone confirm this can't be avoided? What an idiotic thing to say, as if Shepard didn't work for Cerberus in ME2. Annnd...what about Miranda? Shepard slept with the Cerberus 2IC after all. Did someone brainwash Shepard - *my* Shepard - between games?

Just as I was finding some good news, Bioware's new approach to roleplaying - telling MY character what he's thinking - kicks in again and ruins everything.

Sadly it seems ME team wants to check out of the player characterised protaganist business and this kind of lazy defined chracterisation will just be thin end of the wedge.