968 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

The Alliance would have a vetted interest in keeping Omega in the hands of a human. They would support Oleg in trade for eezo, information, etc. Prblem solved.

Yes, because the Alliance is so chummy with Cerberus, as anyone who listens to Ashley or Kaidan will surely know. Especially after Cerberus has just finished helping the Reapers tear through the galaxy; best friends forever.

And Petrovsky never used Adjutants. TIM did without his knowledge. In fact, he attacked Ashe for using them because they endagered the lives of everyone in Omega.
Come ME3, he is creating an army of them. Character consistency. Lulz, wad is tat?

My guess is that his initial forces were inadequate to hold Omega and maintain his own moral standard, and he was hoping to gain reinforcements from TIM later on. TIM, of course, doesn't give a crap about anyone's morals and knew that Petrovsky had the tools available to pacify Omega and it'd be Petrovsky's choice to sink or swim. Petrovsky chose to swim.

Yes, yes. You support attrociously simplistic writing, I've known that for a while now.
I'm reaching the conclusion any form of entertainment you enjoy is definitively not worth my time.

You certainly seem to enjoy Internet arguments enough.

[Steelcan]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Oleg Petrovsky was not in Omega. Only someone that looked like him.

Lulz. I suppose it's true what DG said once; there's no greater sin than violating headcanon.

That Petrovsky was not the same as the Invasion Petrovsky.   His character was changed from one canonical source to another.

I guess that game overrules comicbook. Maybe comic Petrovsky had more to do with JJM than Walters, and the DLC writers didn´t check. Or they decided they didn´t want us sympathising more with the enemy than with the person we were helping, although after trying to justify the Reapers and triggering refuse for shooting Starbrat I find that unlikely.

If you go off of Invasion petrovsky is much better than Aria.  And Mac Walters was the lead writer of Invasion so i don't know what happened.

[JamieCOTC]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

It seemed feasible in the previous games. How do you think our Shepards established their unique and sparkling personalities?

ME1 had dialog options where Shepard said the same line no matter -which- choice was picked.

ME2 had "neutral" options which became pointless because they didn't do anything to advance Shepard's personality.

Honestly, ME3 Shepard to me had the most personality.

In the first two games you could game the system and determine Shepard's personality on your own. It's not that easy w/ ME3. Leviathan at least stepped up the number of times we got to choose dialogue. Omega was a giant step backwards.

And I played a nearly complete neutral Shepard in ME1 & 2 and she seemed more professional than the rest. It was quite fun and different.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 27 novembre 2012 - 11:39 .

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Alliance would have a vetted interest in keeping Omega in the hands of a human. They would support Oleg in trade for eezo, information, etc. Prblem solved.

Yes, because the Alliance is so chummy with Cerberus, as anyone who listens to Ashley or Kaidan will surely know. Especially after Cerberus has just finished helping the Reapers tear through the galaxy; best friends forever.

It has been establshed that the Alliance is inept and incompetent.  And once again, Cerberus was actively opposing the Reapers throughout ME2/3.  Sanctuary was attacked by the Reapers because it was a threat.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
Yes, because the Alliance is so chummy with Cerberus, as anyone who listens to Ashley or Kaidan will surely know. Especially after Cerberus has just finished helping the Reapers tear through the galaxy; best friends forever.

This assumes an alternative where Petrovsky would abandon TIM. Only an idiot would refuse such a deal because of previous affiliations.

My guess is that his initial forces were inadequate to hold Omega and maintain his own moral standard, and he was hoping to gain reinforcements from TIM later on. TIM, of course, doesn't give a crap about anyone's morals and knew that Petrovsky had the tools available to pacify Omega and it'd be Petrovsky's choice to sink or swim. Petrovsky chose to swim.

The actual Petrovsky could have easily swaied large portions of Omega's population to his side. There are thousands there who have no place to go and live under the tumb of the gangs. Kill those gangs, provide food and medical aid for the civillians and request their help. No need for adjutants.
And even should we assume your version true, there is simply no indication whatsoever of it in the DLC. SImply 180º character change without rhyme or reason.

[Nerevar-as]

Steelcan wrote...


If you go off of Invasion petrovsky is much better than Aria.  And Mac Walters was the lead writer of Invasion so i don't know what happened.

Having read the Kotor comics by Invasion cowriter and considering what I know Walters wrote in ME3, my guess would be Invasion good parts weren´t thanks to him.

Is Invasion any good anyway? I decided to skip it after how bad I found TIM´s comic.

[Xilizhra]

This assumes an alternative where Petrovsky would abandon TIM. Only an idiot would refuse such a deal because of previous affiliations.

Um. People like that can be given amnesty if they have useful information (which is why I probably won't allow Petrovsky to survive; I could, but I want Cerberus even as an idea eradicated, and I can't guarantee that the Alliance would keep him sufficiently down; if I could give him to the Council as a prisoner, than fine, but if it has to be the Alliance, I don't quite know), but he'd never be allowed to remain in command. At most, the Alliance would arrest all of the Cerberus people, give them reduced sentences in return for cooperation, and take over Cerberus' infrastructure. Assuming it even wants an Omega outpost to run by itself, which I doubt.

The actual Petrovsky could have easily swaied large portions of Omega's population to his side. There are thousands there who have no place to go and live under the tumb of the gangs. Kill those gangs, provide food and medical aid for the civillians and request their help. No need for adjutants.

You're handwaving a lot. No one has any reason to trust Cerberus even if it's making unrealistic promises, and Petrovsky would never be able to supply all of this himself, nor would TIM supply Petrovsky if Petrovsky could just harden up and keep the station under control more cheaply. And Petrovsky probably doesn't have all of the ties to the various criminal cartels who'd be doing the supplying anyway, so even his trying to do it diplomatically would probably fail, especially since Aria kept things at least stable and she had the de facto approval of most of the Terminus systems to stay in power.

[GreyLycanTrope]

N7Gold wrote...
Just because your Shepard is renegade doesn't mean he/she doesn't have no humanity. Being renegade is about doing what's right without being bound by rules or laws.

Motivation is up to the player, at least is used to be. Renegade Shep certainly has the potential to be the biggest troll/sociopath/xenophobe in the galaxy, it's not how I played renegade everytime but it certainly was an option.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

This assumes an alternative where Petrovsky would abandon TIM. Only an idiot would refuse such a deal because of previous affiliations.

Um. People like that can be given amnesty if they have useful information (which is why I probably won't allow Petrovsky to survive; I could, but I want Cerberus even as an idea eradicated, and I can't guarantee that the Alliance would keep him sufficiently down; if I could give him to the Council as a prisoner, than fine, but if it has to be the Alliance, I don't quite know), but he'd never be allowed to remain in command. At most, the Alliance would arrest all of the Cerberus people, give them reduced sentences in return for cooperation, and take over Cerberus' infrastructure. Assuming it even wants an Omega outpost to run by itself, which I doubt.

It's better for all ideas about advancment to be crushed.  I hope you extend this treatment to all the other groups that advance their own species.  Especially those stupid asari politicians who kept the beacon hidden for their own benefit.

[Xilizhra]

It's better for all ideas about advancment to be crushed. I hope you extend this treatment to all the other groups that advance their own species. Especially those stupid asari politicians who kept the beacon hidden for their own benefit.

Ah, but both the asari responsible and the beacon itself have already been crushed. I don't need to do anything more, except ensure that no one else finds out about it.

[Steelcan]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Steelcan wrote...


If you go off of Invasion petrovsky is much better than Aria.  And Mac Walters was the lead writer of Invasion so i don't know what happened.

Having read the Kotor comics by Invasion cowriter and considering what I know Walters wrote in ME3, my guess would be Invasion good parts weren´t thanks to him.

Is Invasion any good anyway? I decided to skip it after how bad I found TIM´s comic.

It was good.  Petrovsky was merciful, rational, and human.  He wasn't a fan of TIM's strategies.  It is the best comic.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's better for all ideas about advancment to be crushed. I hope you extend this treatment to all the other groups that advance their own species. Especially those stupid asari politicians who kept the beacon hidden for their own benefit.

Ah, but both the asari responsible and the beacon itself have already been crushed. I don't need to do anything more, except ensure that no one else finds out about it.

STG?  Are they going to be disbanded?  Are you also going to outlaw protesting?  You cannot crush ideas, they always come back.

Watch V for Vendetta, or read the comic.  But you would probably agree with the Norsefire. 

Modifié par Steelcan, 27 novembre 2012 - 11:50 .

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's better for all ideas about advancment to be crushed. I hope you extend this treatment to all the other groups that advance their own species. Especially those stupid asari politicians who kept the beacon hidden for their own benefit.

Ah, but both the asari responsible and the beacon itself have already been crushed. I don't need to do anything more, except ensure that no one else finds out about it.

STG?  Are they going to be disbanded?  Are you also going to outlaw protesting?  You cannot crush ideas, they always come back.

Watch V for Vendetta, or read the comic.  But you would probably agree with the Norsefire. 

Norsefire is actually a lot more like Cerberus, so... not really, no. And note that I didn't attack Cerberus until they attacked me/the galaxy, which the STG hasn't done yet.

[grey_wind]

N7Gold wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

It seemed feasible in the previous games. How do you think our Shepards established their unique and sparkling personalities?

ME1 had dialog options where Shepard said the same line no matter -which- choice was picked.

ME2 had "neutral" options which became pointless because they didn't do anything to advance Shepard's personality.

Honestly, ME3 Shepard to me had the most personality.

To YOU not everyone. I had four Shepards with fairly distinct personalities if you must know.

Man, I miss my sociopath Shepard who gleefully blew everything up and didn't care how many lives were lost if it meant victory.
Seeing her mourn over a dead kid she didn't know and apologize to the Asari councillor.....

Just because your Shepard is renegade doesn't mean he/she doesn't have no humanity. Being renegade is about doing what's right without being bound by rules or laws.

Thank you for knowing my Shepard better than I do.
I can't be the only one who sees the irony here?

Modifié par grey_wind, 27 novembre 2012 - 11:54 .

[fiendishchicken]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's better for all ideas about advancment to be crushed. I hope you extend this treatment to all the other groups that advance their own species. Especially those stupid asari politicians who kept the beacon hidden for their own benefit.

Ah, but both the asari responsible and the beacon itself have already been crushed. I don't need to do anything more, except ensure that no one else finds out about it.

Why not have everyone find out about it? Your tactic involves not letting anyone advance, when it should be to let everyone advance. Seems like you just want your blue girls left alive to bang.

That's one of Cerberus flaws, at least with how it is now. I'm all for being pro-humanity. But they're trying to be 'humanity first' a little too zealously. 

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
Um. People like that can be given amnesty if they have useful information (which is why I probably won't allow Petrovsky to survive; I could, but I want Cerberus even as an idea eradicated, and I can't guarantee that the Alliance would keep him sufficiently down; if I could give him to the Council as a prisoner, than fine, but if it has to be the Alliance, I don't quite know), but he'd never be allowed to remain in command. At most, the Alliance would arrest all of the Cerberus people, give them reduced sentences in return for cooperation, and take over Cerberus' infrastructure. Assuming it even wants an Omega outpost to run by itself, which I doubt.

You and your "eradicate ideas".  I can't take you seriously when you go off on that.

But whatever, taking Omega from Petrovsky would require quite a bit of fighting regardless if Cerberus is supporting him or Omega's civillians. Fighting that would be entirely unnacessary since he is a human and already in charge. The Alliance is already far too strained dealing with the Reapers, they would take the deal.
The great powers of our world have allied with former enemies countless times because it's convenient.

You're handwaving a lot. No one has any reason to trust Cerberus even if it's making unrealistic promises, and Petrovsky would never be able to supply all of this himself, nor would TIM supply Petrovsky if Petrovsky could just harden up and keep the station under control more cheaply. And Petrovsky probably doesn't have all of the ties to the various criminal cartels who'd be doing the supplying anyway, so even his trying to do it diplomatically would probably fail, especially since Aria kept things at least stable and she had the de facto approval of most of the Terminus systems to stay in power.

Kept things stable? There are multiple turf wars in Omega across the franchise.
And I'm not talking about promises. I'm talking about going to the territory of the weakest gang. Wipe it out and have the Cerberus soldiers deliver food and medicine to its citizens. Word would spread, etc, etc. Simple as that.
And trying to occupy a settlement with an unhappy population would be far more expensive that what I suggested.
But this would be smart and I should learn not to expect it from ME anymore.

[N7Gold]

grey_wind wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

It seemed feasible in the previous games. How do you think our Shepards established their unique and sparkling personalities?

ME1 had dialog options where Shepard said the same line no matter -which- choice was picked.

ME2 had "neutral" options which became pointless because they didn't do anything to advance Shepard's personality.

Honestly, ME3 Shepard to me had the most personality.

To YOU not everyone. I had four Shepards with fairly distinct personalities if you must know.

Man, I miss my sociopath Shepard who gleefully blew everything up and didn't care how many lives were lost if it meant victory.
Seeing her mourn over a dead kid she didn't know and apologize to the Asari councillor.....

Just because your Shepard is renegade doesn't mean he/she doesn't have no humanity. Being renegade is about doing what's right without being bound by rules or laws.

Thank you for knowing my Shepard better than I do.
I can't be the only one who sees the irony here?

My Shepard is mainly paragon, but a bit of a renegade too. Paragade.

[Xilizhra]

Why not have everyone find out about it? Your tactic involves not letting anyone advance, when it should be to let everyone advance. Seems like you just want your blue girls left alive to bang.

I'll allow people to advance, but also try to not let people like Cerberus be the ones doing so.

But whatever, taking Omega from Petrovsky would require quite a bit of fighting regardless if Cerberus is supporting him or Omega's civillians. Fighting that would be entirely unnacessary since he is a human and already in charge. The Alliance is already far too strained dealing with the Reapers, they would take the deal.
The great powers of our world have allied with former enemies countless times because it's convenient.

If Petrovsky cares about Omega more than he does Cerberus' cause, he'd be willing to step down for the Alliance's sake.

Kept things stable? There are multiple turf wars in Omega across the franchise.

More stable than the alternative.

And I'm not talking about promises. I'm talking about going to the territory of the weakest gang. Wipe it out and have the Cerberus soldiers deliver food and medicine to its citizens. Word would spread, etc, etc. Simple as that.
And trying to occupy a settlement with an unhappy population would be far more expensive that what I suggested.
But this would be smart and I should learn not to expect it from ME anymore.

So basically, Cerberus tries to be another gang, taking on all possible gangs? You do know they teamed up against Archangel, yes? It'd be a tough fight, but Petrovsky would definitely lose eventually if he didn't play dirty, and I suspect he might care more about his own soldiers than about possible civilian casualties.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's better for all ideas about advancment to be crushed. I hope you extend this treatment to all the other groups that advance their own species. Especially those stupid asari politicians who kept the beacon hidden for their own benefit.

Ah, but both the asari responsible and the beacon itself have already been crushed. I don't need to do anything more, except ensure that no one else finds out about it.

STG?  Are they going to be disbanded?  Are you also going to outlaw protesting?  You cannot crush ideas, they always come back.

Watch V for Vendetta, or read the comic.  But you would probably agree with the Norsefire. 

Norsefire is actually a lot more like Cerberus, so... not really, no. And note that I didn't attack Cerberus until they attacked me/the galaxy, which the STG hasn't done yet.

  The first thing they do in power is suppress ideas.  Books, music, movies, all banned for containing dangerous ideas.  You're like Big Brother on steroids.

[Xilizhra]

The first thing they do in power is suppress ideas. Books, music, movies, all banned for containing dangerous ideas. You're like Big Brother on steroids.

Thankfully, none are nearly so dangerous as Petrovsky himself would be.

[MrTrololol]

I wanted to be friend with Petrovsky... in the end I realized that I liked his character a lot but Shepard dismissed him with a simple "I don't think so" (or something like that)....
well at least he didn't die... only to become a War Asset. Many Jimmies are being rustled

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
If Petrovsky cares about Omega more than he does Cerberus' cause, he'd be willing to step down for the Alliance's sake.

What for? Assuming he does a good job and has the support of the population, what is the point? Trying to change to an Alliance regime would just create pointless problems.

More stable than the alternative.

And Pretrovsky's rule would be even more stable.

So basically, Cerberus tries to be another gang, taking on all possible gangs? You do know they teamed up against Archangel, yes? It'd be a tough fight, but Petrovsky would definitely lose eventually if he didn't play dirty, and I suspect he might care more about his own soldiers than about possible civilian casualties.

No, Cerberus becomes an actual government on Omega, harsh but just, rather than a gang or an invading force.
Archangel didn't have an army or a fleet. Petrovsky would win. Garrus is actually a good example of what I'm saying. By going after the gangs, Garrus earned the love of the population.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

The first thing they do in power is suppress ideas. Books, music, movies, all banned for containing dangerous ideas. You're like Big Brother on steroids.

Thankfully, none are nearly so dangerous as Petrovsky himself would be.

How? He's a general without an army.  In additon to the fact that he is not as destructive as others in Cerberus. he doesn't believe in risking civilians or soldiers unless absolutely necessary.

And ides are much more dangerous than one man. Ideas like democracy always survive even in the most oppresive regimes, kill the leader and the idea will still come back.

Modifié par Steelcan, 28 novembre 2012 - 12:13 .

[Xilizhra]

No, Cerberus becomes an actual government on Omega, harsh but just, rather than a gang or an invading force.
Archangel didn't have an army or a fleet. Petrovsky would win. Garrus is actually a good example of what I'm saying. By going after the gangs, Garrus earned the love of the population.

Nothing Cerberus has ever done is just. Moreover, it has no infrastructure needed to create an actual government; Omega isn't built for that, and it'd take time and resources that Petrovsky doesn't have... especially if he's hoping to be morally lilywhite. And your alleged desire for "gray morality" rings extremely hollow when you want to have Petrovsky be an exemplar of purity; it sounds far more like you just want Bioware to say that Aria is wrong. You seem to want Shepard to have no reason to oppose Petrovsky whatsoever aside from his Cerberus affiliation itself, and then you'd take even that way. It's highly disingenuous.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 28 novembre 2012 - 12:13 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

It seemed feasible in the previous games. How do you think our Shepards established their unique and sparkling personalities?

ME1 had dialog options where Shepard said the same line no matter -which- choice was picked.

ME2 had "neutral" options which became pointless because they didn't do anything to advance Shepard's personality.

Honestly, ME3 Shepard to me had the most personality.

Let's review!

Mass Effect,

Turian Councilor: Do you take pleasure from committing genocide, Shepard?
Commander Shepard: Depends on the species, Turian.

Mass Effect 2

The Illusive Man: Shepard, you're making a habit of costing me more than time and money.
Commander Shepard: I'm sorry, I'm having trouble hearing you- I'm getting a lot of bull**** on this line.

Mass Effect 3

*salutes Hackett and apologizes to Asari Council*

See, the problem is in the first two games those responses were optional. ME3 railroads you into being a good little alliance puppet and crying over some random kid.