968 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
Nothing Cerberus has ever done is just. Moreover, it has no infrastructure needed to create an actual government; Omega isn't built for that, and it'd take time and resources that Petrovsky doesn't have... especially if he's hoping to be morally lilywhite. And your alleged desire for "gray morality" rings extremely hollow when you want to have Petrovsky be an exemplar of purity; it sounds far more like you just want Bioware to say that Aria is wrong. You seem to want Shepard to have no reason to oppose Petrovsky whatsoever aside from his Cerberus affiliation itself, and then you'd take even that way. It's highly disingenuous.

Much of what Cerberus did was the right thing to do.

And I did say harsh. I'm not asking for Petrovsky to become an entirely good character. That would make him boring. Only for some character consistency which does include concern for civillians and intelligence. Not what he became in the DLC which was a complete 180º. The freedoms of Omega's population would have to be restricted but considering the entire place has no laws, that's not saying much. In return, there would be a huge drop in criminality.
And so, we return to Aria representing lawless freedom vs security of civilization and Petrovsky.
Omega's infrastructure os actually quite sufficient. The problem are the gangs.

I have no idea how you could agree with Aria but I also wouldn't take the option away from people which was done to me.

[OdanUrr]

What's the verdict then?

[Xilizhra]

And I did say harsh. I'm not asking for Petrovsky to become an entirely good character. That would make him boring. Only for some character consistency which does include concern for civillians and intelligence. Not what he became in the DLC which was a complete 180º. The freedoms of Omega's population would have to be restricted but considering the entire place has no laws, that's not saying much. In return, there would be a huge drop in criminality.

You're asking for a Renegade against whom there's no Paragon to contrast. Your plan simply doesn't work when Aria is the only alternative, unless Cerberus is still a threat and Petrovsky may still be a threat due to his loyalty to Cerberus.

Now, if there was a Nyreen/Aria partnership to contrast against and Nyreen's policies would also lead to a better life for Omega's population, then maybe we could have something.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 28 novembre 2012 - 12:40 .

[Steelcan]

Omega under Aria makes the pirates in Pirates of the Caribbean look normal and civilized.

[MegaSovereign]

OdanUrr wrote...

What's the verdict then?

Came to this thread to ask the same thing lol.

[Bill Casey]

I don't see how Petrovsky is that much different from the Invasion comic...
He still shows concern for civilian casualties, and presents offers of amnesty and mercy...

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
You're asking for a Renegade against whom there's no Paragon to contrast. Your plan simply doesn't work when Aria is the only alternative, unless Cerberus is still a threat and Petrovsky may still be a threat due to his loyalty to Cerberus.

Now, if there was a Nyreen/Aria partnership to contrast against and Nyreen's policies would also lead to a better life for Omega's population, then maybe we could have something.

Why do you need a Paragon at all?
And did you just admit Aria is a terrible leader for Omega? Alert the Chantry, a miracle has ocurred.

[Steelcan]

MegaSovereign wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

What's the verdict then?

Came to this thread to ask the same thing lol.

The verdict is as follows.

"meh"

[MisterJB]

Bill Casey wrote...

I don't see how Petrovsky is that much different from the Invasion comic...
He still shows concern for civilian casualties, and presents offers of amnesty and mercy...

Create an army of adjutants where before he forbid their use; beg for mercy where before he had refused to help Aria while having a gun pointed at his head; use indocrinated troops where before the lives of his soldiers were a priority.
He says the right things now and again but that was mostly lip service. Ultimately, he has become a mook for Shepard to face, nothing more.

[Xilizhra]

Why do you need a Paragon at all?
And did you just admit Aria is a terrible leader for Omega? Alert the Chantry, a miracle has ocurred.

What you're doing is making Petrovsky magically better than Aria at everything that Aria is good at. Under such a situation, there'd be no reason to choose Aria at all.

Create an army of adjutants where before he forbid their use; beg for mercy where before he had refused to help Aria while having a gun pointed at his head; use indocrinated troops where before the lives of his soldiers were a priority.
He says the right things now and again but that was mostly lip service. Ultimately, he has become a mook for Shepard to face, nothing more.

Look what happened to Ronald Taylor in a situation of leadership under pressure.

[TobiTobsen]

*sarcasm* Why should we try to convince the highest, unindoctrinated Cerberus officer to defect from his crazy commander and commit all his soldiers and scientists from his cell to Cerberus' original objective of protecting and advancing humanity when we can simply hand over the station to a criminal kingpin? */sarcasm*

We can recruit Dr. Coles unindoctrinated bunch, why not General Petrovsky?
I have the feeling that a well funded and equiped cell from a spec ops organisation like Cerberus would provide much more to the war effort than a bunch of gangs and criminals.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 28 novembre 2012 - 01:01 .

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Create an army of adjutants where before he forbid their use; beg for mercy where before he had refused to help Aria while having a gun pointed at his head; use indocrinated troops where before the lives of his soldiers were a priority.
He says the right things now and again but that was mostly lip service. Ultimately, he has become a mook for Shepard to face, nothing more.

Look what happened to Ronald Taylor in a situation of leadership under pressure.

Ronald Taylor wasn't a general. I don't think Petrovsky would get the job if he wasn't qualified.

[Xilizhra]

Ronald Taylor wasn't a general. I don't think Petrovsky would get the job if he wasn't qualified.

He wasn't qualified to get the job done and remain morally pure. But given those parameters, I doubt anyone would be.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
What you're doing is making Petrovsky magically better than Aria at everything that Aria is good at. Under such a situation, there'd be no reason to choose Aria at all.

Certainly not magically. I provided solid ways to accomplish this.
And under Aria, the freedoms of the population would be greater. Altough so would the dangers

Look what happened to Ronald Taylor in a situation of leadership under pressure.

There is no evidence of breaking under pressure in the DLC. Only of changing Oleg's character to fit the story they wished to tell.

[Xilizhra]

Certainly not magically. I provided solid ways to accomplish this.
And under Aria, the freedoms of the population would be greater. Altough so would the dangers

You didn't, and even with that, you're only giving two Renegade alternatives. That doesn't match any other choice in the game; even when something bad was inevitable in Arrival, we could at least try to take a Paragon action.

There is no evidence of breaking under pressure in the DLC. Only of changing Oleg's character to fit the story they wished to tell.

So if they'd put breaking under pressure in, you'd have been satisfied?

[dreman9999]

MisterJB wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
I'm sorry but what? First you complained that they mat butcher his character, which they don't...Then you complaining you can't be friends with him. Why woul Shepard like him...He barely knows him. You complant became nickpicky.

Yes, they did. His character was butchered.
Oh sure, he says the right things now and again but that's just Bioware paying us lipservice. His actions speak differently. Disregard for the lives of civillians, of his soldiers, the begging...urgh.
And, ultimately, they just made him another gown. Shepard can't side with Petrovsky, he can't convince Petrovsky what TIM is doing is wrong, he can't even bloody sympathize with Petrovsky! No, just give the station back to the pirates
It's so simplistic, so absent of any rational tought... I'm done with Mass Effect. I used to love this universe and I'm tired of funding its destruction.

Sound like you just trying tofind something to complain about. He's not a mindless villian but some how you want to find his actions, which he was ordered to do  at fault. Face it. It's clear you just want something to complain about.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Ronald Taylor wasn't a general. I don't think Petrovsky would get the job if he wasn't qualified.

He wasn't qualified to get the job done and remain morally pure. But given those parameters, I doubt anyone would be.

So what's your point?

[dreman9999]

MegaSovereign wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

What's the verdict then?

Came to this thread to ask the same thing lol.

The verdict was that the op and others found something else to complain about when it was found thevillain in question was not a butchered character.

[Bill Casey]

The adjutants have been modified. It is believed Cerberus can control when and where they transform people...

And in the comic, Petrovsky was willing to blow up Omega station if Aria didn't surrender...
Aria's hardly a threat that warrants that level of response...

Petrovsky surrenders because he has lost. He knows if he provides valuable intel, he can secure amnesty for himself...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 28 novembre 2012 - 01:07 .

[dreman9999]

TobiTobsen wrote...

*sarcasm* Why should we try to convince the highest, unindoctrinated Cerberus officer to defect from his crazy commander and commit all his soldiers and scientists from his cell to Cerberus' original objective of protecting and advancing humanity when we can simply hand over the station to a criminal kingpin? */sarcasm*

We can recruit Dr. Coles unindoctrinated bunch, why not General Petrovsky?
I have the feeling that a well funded and equiped cell from a spec ops organisation like Cerberus would provide much more to the war effort than a bunch of gangs and criminals.

Did you play the dlc? You have an option to have him defect

[Steelcan]

Bill Casey wrote...

The adjutants have been modified. It is believed Cerberus can control when and where they transform people...

And in the comic, Petrovsky was willing to blow up Omega station if Aria didn't surrender...
Aria's hardly a threat that warrants that level of response...

Petrovsky surrenders because he has lost. He knows if he provides valuable intel, he can secure amnesty for himself...

He also wanted to evacuate as many people as possible

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Once my dingus Xbox Live gets updated I'll download this overpriced, likely-overhyped DLC and give my $0.02 on it here.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
You didn't, and even with that, you're only giving two Renegade alternatives. That doesn't match any other choice in the game; even when something bad was inevitable in Arrival, we could at least try to take a Paragon action.

People have come to rely far too much on Paragon/Renegade. Maker forbid we should actually try to have them think on the pros and cons of a choice instead of color coding them for convenience.
That's how we get controversies like the endings.

So if they'd put breaking under pressure in, you'd have been satisfied?

No but it would at least be a reason. I wouldn't like it but it would be better than the entirely new character we have now.

[masster blaster]

Play as a Paragon he lives. Play as a renegade in Omega. He dies.

[MisterJB]

dreman9999 wrote...
Did you play the dlc? You have an option to have him defect

No, you have the option to force him to surrender. Completely different.