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[dreman9999]

Steelcan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Well if a kid dying right in front of you doesn't bother you, you're a sociopath, and as for saluting Hackett, why not?  The Reapers are here, you don't have time to be chest-thumping and acting like you're tough stuff.

But Shepard also could be responsible for numerous deaths, and even an extinction.  One kid shouldn't be a breaking point.

Even the back ground stories are more traumatic, yet they get hardly any mention.

It not just the kid. It's also the fate of his race and all the races. You think the person trying to put this war together is going to sleep  easy?

But why focus on the kid?  I think the VS, or dead squdmates would be a better focus.

Focus on just the kid? Did you listen to the back ground sounds and vo? It's way more then just the kid.

[RiouHotaru]

grey_wind wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

It seemed feasible in the previous games. How do you think our Shepards established their unique and sparkling personalities?

ME1 had dialog options where Shepard said the same line no matter -which- choice was picked.

ME2 had "neutral" options which became pointless because they didn't do anything to advance Shepard's personality.

Honestly, ME3 Shepard to me had the most personality.

Let's review!

Mass Effect,

Turian Councilor: Do you take pleasure from committing genocide, Shepard?
Commander Shepard: Depends on the species, Turian.

Mass Effect 2

The Illusive Man: Shepard, you're making a habit of costing me more than time and money.
Commander Shepard: I'm sorry, I'm having trouble hearing you- I'm getting a lot of bull**** on this line.

Mass Effect 3

*salutes Hackett and apologizes to Asari Council*

See, the problem is in the first two games those responses were optional. ME3 railroads you into being a good little alliance puppet and crying over some random kid.

Well if a kid dying right in front of you doesn't bother you, you're a sociopath, and as for saluting Hackett, why not?  The Reapers are here, you don't have time to be chest-thumping and acting like you're tough stuff.

I was roleplaying one of my Sheps as a sociopath. So yes, the kid bothering her does irk me.
Nearly all my Sheps were Cerberus loyalists. So yes, it does bother me when I'm saluting Hackett and kissing his arse 24x7, while the only conversations I can have with Timmy are "Lolz, yousa mad boomer!". It would have been nice to get an option at the very least where my Shepard wasn't acting like an Alliance doormat. You know, like how you can tell the Council in ME1 and Cerberus in ME2 to shut their traps?

Well, sociopath isn't an option you have.  And not a personality Bioware is willing to account for and accomodate for.  But that isn't a bad thing.

[Steelcan]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Well if a kid dying right in front of you doesn't bother you, you're a sociopath, and as for saluting Hackett, why not?  The Reapers are here, you don't have time to be chest-thumping and acting like you're tough stuff.

But Shepard also could be responsible for numerous deaths, and even an extinction.  One kid shouldn't be a breaking point.

Even the back ground stories are more traumatic, yet they get hardly any mention.

There's a difference.  The people Shepard killed were also trying to kill you.  Also, honestly claiming your Shepard wouldn't so much as bat an eye at a child dying is hilarious.  Try asking any -real- soldier how they react to death.  Again, if Shepard doesn't feel a thing when a kid dies, there's issues invovled.

 But it shouldn't be the focus of Shepard.  My SHepard might be upset by the kid's death, but he also exterminated the last Rachni Queen.  His sympathy is in short supply

[dreman9999]

d-boy15 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Well if a kid dying right in front of you doesn't bother you, you're a sociopath, and as for saluting Hackett, why not?  The Reapers are here, you don't have time to be chest-thumping and acting like you're tough stuff.

how about shepard family got slaughter?
civilian melt in to goo?
sacrifice his/her own soldiers?
shooting friend in the back?
betrayed you friend trust?
left civilian to dead?

 

So no one is paying attention to the back ground sounds and vo?

Think about it like the last strawthat broke the camel back. Every fear,stress and horror Shepard ever faced and felt come out of those dreams not counting the kid.

[grey_wind]

RiouHotaru wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

It seemed feasible in the previous games. How do you think our Shepards established their unique and sparkling personalities?

ME1 had dialog options where Shepard said the same line no matter -which- choice was picked.

ME2 had "neutral" options which became pointless because they didn't do anything to advance Shepard's personality.

Honestly, ME3 Shepard to me had the most personality.

Let's review!

Mass Effect,

Turian Councilor: Do you take pleasure from committing genocide, Shepard?
Commander Shepard: Depends on the species, Turian.

Mass Effect 2

The Illusive Man: Shepard, you're making a habit of costing me more than time and money.
Commander Shepard: I'm sorry, I'm having trouble hearing you- I'm getting a lot of bull**** on this line.

Mass Effect 3

*salutes Hackett and apologizes to Asari Council*

See, the problem is in the first two games those responses were optional. ME3 railroads you into being a good little alliance puppet and crying over some random kid.

Well if a kid dying right in front of you doesn't bother you, you're a sociopath, and as for saluting Hackett, why not?  The Reapers are here, you don't have time to be chest-thumping and acting like you're tough stuff.

I was roleplaying one of my Sheps as a sociopath. So yes, the kid bothering her does irk me.
Nearly all my Sheps were Cerberus loyalists. So yes, it does bother me when I'm saluting Hackett and kissing his arse 24x7, while the only conversations I can have with Timmy are "Lolz, yousa mad boomer!". It would have been nice to get an option at the very least where my Shepard wasn't acting like an Alliance doormat. You know, like how you can tell the Council in ME1 and Cerberus in ME2 to shut their traps?

Well, sociopath isn't an option you have.  And not a personality Bioware is willing to account for and accomodate for.  But that isn't a bad thing.

They didn't even have to account for it. All they had to do was give me the same kind of dialogue options I had in ME1 and 2. But they couldn't even do that, and instead we get either neurotic autodialogue or instances where my only options are to be mad at Joker or be mad at Joker.

[dreman9999]

Steelcan wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Well if a kid dying right in front of you doesn't bother you, you're a sociopath, and as for saluting Hackett, why not?  The Reapers are here, you don't have time to be chest-thumping and acting like you're tough stuff.

But Shepard also could be responsible for numerous deaths, and even an extinction.  One kid shouldn't be a breaking point.

Even the back ground stories are more traumatic, yet they get hardly any mention.

There's a difference.  The people Shepard killed were also trying to kill you.  Also, honestly claiming your Shepard wouldn't so much as bat an eye at a child dying is hilarious.  Try asking any -real- soldier how they react to death.  Again, if Shepard doesn't feel a thing when a kid dies, there's issues invovled.

 But it shouldn't be the focus of Shepard.  My SHepard might be upset by the kid's death, but he also exterminated the last Rachni Queen.  His sympathy is in short supply

But the dreams were not just focused on just the kid.

[Steelcan]

Not the focus of the dreams

[dreman9999]

Steelcan wrote...

Not the focus of the dreams

Really now? This much vo for the dreams have no meaning?

[Steelcan]

dreman9999 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Not the focus of the dreams

Really now? This much vo for the dreams have no meaning?

  the stupid kid is the focus, we chase after him, watch him burst into flames.

[Bourne Endeavor]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

It seemed feasible in the previous games. How do you think our Shepards established their unique and sparkling personalities?

ME1 had dialog options where Shepard said the same line no matter -which- choice was picked.

ME2 had "neutral" options which became pointless because they didn't do anything to advance Shepard's personality.

Honestly, ME3 Shepard to me had the most personality.

Let's review!

Mass Effect,

Turian Councilor: Do you take pleasure from committing genocide, Shepard?
Commander Shepard: Depends on the species, Turian.

Mass Effect 2

The Illusive Man: Shepard, you're making a habit of costing me more than time and money.
Commander Shepard: I'm sorry, I'm having trouble hearing you- I'm getting a lot of bull**** on this line.

Mass Effect 3

*salutes Hackett and apologizes to Asari Council*

See, the problem is in the first two games those responses were optional. ME3 railroads you into being a good little alliance puppet and crying over some random kid.

Well if a kid dying right in front of you doesn't bother you, you're a sociopath, and as for saluting Hackett, why not?  The Reapers are here, you don't have time to be chest-thumping and acting like you're tough stuff.

People have different reaction to tragedy. Some do not display any visual effect, some derive a sense of motivation to do better, others hold a pragmatic perspective and accept the reality war will result in causalities. What irked me about that scene is how incredibly contrived and poorly written it was. Moreover though is how Shepard is repeatedly plagued with nightmares about this one kid. Would I have a reaction to the kid dying personally? Yes, but they would not haunt my dreams or even register for longer than a moment.

We do not need "chest-thumping" but an acknowledgement of variety. My Femshep felt the Alliance abandoned her and was partially acting as a mercenary, utilizing Cerberus as a resource. She had no loyalty to the Alliance whatsoever and would maintain the "I'm using you because you're useful" demeanor had I been allowed to convey this. Her attitude toward the Council was even worse. Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 allowed had a degree of diversity, even if choice was ultimately an illusion. ME3 dropped the facade and simply railroaded you into BioWare's Shepard.

I cite the Saren exchanges and Kal'Reeger as two examples of being in the heat of battle, yet still having choice in response. ME3 did not have that.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 28 novembre 2012 - 02:42 .

[dreman9999]

Steelcan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Not the focus of the dreams

Really now? This much vo for the dreams have no meaning?

  the stupid kid is the focus, we chase after him, watch him burst into flames.

And yet every time Shepard wakes up from the dream he talks about someone close to him he lost.

I remeber a"I miss Kaiden/Ashley" option in the diologue wheel after the first dream.

That means noting?

[dreman9999]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

It seemed feasible in the previous games. How do you think our Shepards established their unique and sparkling personalities?

ME1 had dialog options where Shepard said the same line no matter -which- choice was picked.

ME2 had "neutral" options which became pointless because they didn't do anything to advance Shepard's personality.

Honestly, ME3 Shepard to me had the most personality.

Let's review!

Mass Effect,

Turian Councilor: Do you take pleasure from committing genocide, Shepard?
Commander Shepard: Depends on the species, Turian.

Mass Effect 2

The Illusive Man: Shepard, you're making a habit of costing me more than time and money.
Commander Shepard: I'm sorry, I'm having trouble hearing you- I'm getting a lot of bull**** on this line.

Mass Effect 3

*salutes Hackett and apologizes to Asari Council*

See, the problem is in the first two games those responses were optional. ME3 railroads you into being a good little alliance puppet and crying over some random kid.

Well if a kid dying right in front of you doesn't bother you, you're a sociopath, and as for saluting Hackett, why not?  The Reapers are here, you don't have time to be chest-thumping and acting like you're tough stuff.

People have different reaction to tragedy. Some do not display any visual effect, some derive a sense of motivation to do better, others hold a pragmatic perspective and accept the reality war will result in causalities. What irked me about that scene is how incredibly contrived and poorly written it was. Moreover though is how Shepard is repeatedly plagued with nightmares about this one kid. Would I have a reaction to the kid dying personally? Yes, but they would not haunt my dreams or even register for longer than a moment.

We do not need "chest-thumping" but an acknowledgement of variety. My Femshep felt the Alliance abandoned her and was partially acting as a mercenary, utilizing Cerberus as a resource. She had no loyalty to the Alliance whatsoever and would maintain the "I'm using you because you're useful" demeanor had I been allowed to convey this. Her attitude toward the Council was even worse. Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 allowed had a degree of diversity, even if choice was ultimately an illusion. ME3 dropped the facade and simply railroaded you into BioWare's Shepard.

I cite the Saren exchanges and Kal'Reeger as two examples of being in the heat of battle, yet still having choice in response. ME3 did not have that.

Because you can't act mean to the people you need help from...ME3 is bad?

[Bourne Endeavor]

dreman9999 wrote...

But the dreams were not just focused on just the kid.

Irrelevant.

I've seen worse than what happened to that kid and not dealt of it. My Shepard has committed far worse actions for the sake of duty and not been effected. Those dream sequences is BioWare forcing your Shepard to convey emotions he/she may not possess or have already dealt with.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 28 novembre 2012 - 02:47 .

[Steelcan]

dreman9999 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Not the focus of the dreams

Really now? This much vo for the dreams have no meaning?

  the stupid kid is the focus, we chase after him, watch him burst into flames.

And yet every time Shepard wakes up from the dream he talks about someone close to him he lost.

I remeber a"I miss Kaiden/Ashley" option in the diologue wheel after the first dream.

That means noting?

I don't miss Ashley. I killed her off for a reason

[Bourne Endeavor]

dreman9999 wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

It seemed feasible in the previous games. How do you think our Shepards established their unique and sparkling personalities?

ME1 had dialog options where Shepard said the same line no matter -which- choice was picked.

ME2 had "neutral" options which became pointless because they didn't do anything to advance Shepard's personality.

Honestly, ME3 Shepard to me had the most personality.

Let's review!

Mass Effect,

Turian Councilor: Do you take pleasure from committing genocide, Shepard?
Commander Shepard: Depends on the species, Turian.

Mass Effect 2

The Illusive Man: Shepard, you're making a habit of costing me more than time and money.
Commander Shepard: I'm sorry, I'm having trouble hearing you- I'm getting a lot of bull**** on this line.

Mass Effect 3

*salutes Hackett and apologizes to Asari Council*

See, the problem is in the first two games those responses were optional. ME3 railroads you into being a good little alliance puppet and crying over some random kid.

Well if a kid dying right in front of you doesn't bother you, you're a sociopath, and as for saluting Hackett, why not?  The Reapers are here, you don't have time to be chest-thumping and acting like you're tough stuff.

People have different reaction to tragedy. Some do not display any visual effect, some derive a sense of motivation to do better, others hold a pragmatic perspective and accept the reality war will result in causalities. What irked me about that scene is how incredibly contrived and poorly written it was. Moreover though is how Shepard is repeatedly plagued with nightmares about this one kid. Would I have a reaction to the kid dying personally? Yes, but they would not haunt my dreams or even register for longer than a moment.

We do not need "chest-thumping" but an acknowledgement of variety. My Femshep felt the Alliance abandoned her and was partially acting as a mercenary, utilizing Cerberus as a resource. She had no loyalty to the Alliance whatsoever and would maintain the "I'm using you because you're useful" demeanor had I been allowed to convey this. Her attitude toward the Council was even worse. Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 allowed had a degree of diversity, even if choice was ultimately an illusion. ME3 dropped the facade and simply railroaded you into BioWare's Shepard.

I cite the Saren exchanges and Kal'Reeger as two examples of being in the heat of battle, yet still having choice in response. ME3 did not have that.

Because you can't act mean to the people you need help from...ME3 is bad?

... find the exact portion of my post where I actually said that. Go ahead, I'll wait.

ME3 has multiple problem that render it lackluster. Forced dialogue is simply one amongst the many.

[dreman9999]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Well if a kid dying right in front of you doesn't bother you, you're a sociopath, and as for saluting Hackett, why not?  The Reapers are here, you don't have time to be chest-thumping and acting like you're tough stuff.

But Shepard also could be responsible for numerous deaths, and even an extinction.  One kid shouldn't be a breaking point.

Even the back ground stories are more traumatic, yet they get hardly any mention.

There's a difference.  The people Shepard killed were also trying to kill you.  Also, honestly claiming your Shepard wouldn't so much as bat an eye at a child dying is hilarious.  Try asking any -real- soldier how they react to death.  Again, if Shepard doesn't feel a thing when a kid dies, there's issues invovled.

 But it shouldn't be the focus of Shepard.  My SHepard might be upset by the kid's death, but he also exterminated the last Rachni Queen.  His sympathy is in short supply

But the dreams were not just focused on just the kid.

Irrelevant.

I've seen worse than what happened to that kid and not dealt of it. My Shepard has committed far worse actions for the sake of duty and not been effected. Those dream sequences is BioWare forcing your Shepard to convey emotions he/she may not possess or have already dealt with.

Not irrelivent. The dream cover everything bad that happened to Shepard not just the kid.
Example...


And after the dream what were the options to talk about? Didn' t the first dream had a comment were Shepard stated he misses the person who dies in virmire?
It was way more then the kid in those dreams.

[Wayning_Star]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But the dreams were not just focused on just the kid.

Irrelevant.

I've seen worse than what happened to that kid and not dealt of it. My Shepard has committed far worse actions for the sake of duty and not been effected. Those dream sequences is BioWare forcing your Shepard to convey emotions he/she may not possess or have already dealt with.

art can only immitate life. But reality is definitively stranger than fiction.  I suspect that its just a limitation of immersion that costs fans association with their avitar. Part of the problem(imo only) with it is the questions presented in ME3 are incapable of being answered directly, and head canon ends up an ache.

[dreman9999]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

It seemed feasible in the previous games. How do you think our Shepards established their unique and sparkling personalities?

ME1 had dialog options where Shepard said the same line no matter -which- choice was picked.

ME2 had "neutral" options which became pointless because they didn't do anything to advance Shepard's personality.

Honestly, ME3 Shepard to me had the most personality.

Let's review!

Mass Effect,

Turian Councilor: Do you take pleasure from committing genocide, Shepard?
Commander Shepard: Depends on the species, Turian.

Mass Effect 2

The Illusive Man: Shepard, you're making a habit of costing me more than time and money.
Commander Shepard: I'm sorry, I'm having trouble hearing you- I'm getting a lot of bull**** on this line.

Mass Effect 3

*salutes Hackett and apologizes to Asari Council*

See, the problem is in the first two games those responses were optional. ME3 railroads you into being a good little alliance puppet and crying over some random kid.

Well if a kid dying right in front of you doesn't bother you, you're a sociopath, and as for saluting Hackett, why not?  The Reapers are here, you don't have time to be chest-thumping and acting like you're tough stuff.

People have different reaction to tragedy. Some do not display any visual effect, some derive a sense of motivation to do better, others hold a pragmatic perspective and accept the reality war will result in causalities. What irked me about that scene is how incredibly contrived and poorly written it was. Moreover though is how Shepard is repeatedly plagued with nightmares about this one kid. Would I have a reaction to the kid dying personally? Yes, but they would not haunt my dreams or even register for longer than a moment.

We do not need "chest-thumping" but an acknowledgement of variety. My Femshep felt the Alliance abandoned her and was partially acting as a mercenary, utilizing Cerberus as a resource. She had no loyalty to the Alliance whatsoever and would maintain the "I'm using you because you're useful" demeanor had I been allowed to convey this. Her attitude toward the Council was even worse. Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 allowed had a degree of diversity, even if choice was ultimately an illusion. ME3 dropped the facade and simply railroaded you into BioWare's Shepard.

I cite the Saren exchanges and Kal'Reeger as two examples of being in the heat of battle, yet still having choice in response. ME3 did not have that.

Because you can't act mean to the people you need help from...ME3 is bad?

... find the exact portion of my post where I actually said that. Go ahead, I'll wait.

ME3 has multiple problem that render it lackluster. Forced dialogue is simply one amongst the many.

"Let's review!

Mass Effect, 

Turian Councilor: Do you take pleasure from committing genocide, Shepard? 
Commander Shepard: Depends on the species, Turian.

Mass Effect 2

The Illusive Man: Shepard, you're making a habit of costing me more than time and money. 
Commander Shepard: I'm sorry, I'm having trouble hearing you- I'm getting a lot of bull**** on this line. 

Mass Effect 3

*salutes Hackett and apologizes to Asari Council*"

[Steelcan]

Mr. Gorbachev tear down this wall

[Bourne Endeavor]

Steelcan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Not the focus of the dreams

Really now? This much vo for the dreams have no meaning?

  the stupid kid is the focus, we chase after him, watch him burst into flames.

And yet every time Shepard wakes up from the dream he talks about someone close to him he lost.

I remeber a"I miss Kaiden/Ashley" option in the diologue wheel after the first dream.

That means noting?

I don't miss Ashley. I killed her off for a reason

You know what the sheer irony of that is? Ashley gets more characterization than Shepard! You can be an absolute ass to her in previous games and in ME3, she outright tells you, "I hope the Reapers send you to hell." Meanwhile, Shepard always feels bad about every death, no more how he/she might have treated that person.

[dreman9999]

Steelcan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Not the focus of the dreams

Really now? This much vo for the dreams have no meaning?

  the stupid kid is the focus, we chase after him, watch him burst into flames.

And yet every time Shepard wakes up from the dream he talks about someone close to him he lost.

I remeber a"I miss Kaiden/Ashley" option in the diologue wheel after the first dream.

That means noting?

I don't miss Ashley. I killed her off for a reason

Which is why option exsist. You had a prompt  to not take about your dream. That still mean what bothered your Shepard was not the child alone but the voices in the background...

Modifié par dreman9999, 28 novembre 2012 - 02:56 .

[dreman9999]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Not the focus of the dreams

Really now? This much vo for the dreams have no meaning?

  the stupid kid is the focus, we chase after him, watch him burst into flames.

And yet every time Shepard wakes up from the dream he talks about someone close to him he lost.

I remeber a"I miss Kaiden/Ashley" option in the diologue wheel after the first dream.

That means noting?

I don't miss Ashley. I killed her off for a reason

You know what the sheer irony of that is? Ashley gets more characterization than Shepard! You can be an absolute ass to her in previous games and in ME3, she outright tells you, "I hope the Reapers send you to hell." Meanwhile, Shepard always feels bad about every death, no more how he/she might have treated that person.

And now weare back to why not being able to hate people or let's them know you hate them makes the game bad.

[Dean_the_Young]

The Petrosky fate didn't decide it, but Petrosky himself was an underwhelming piece in an underwhelming DLC.

Oh well: it seems Biowware is only capable of interesting antagonists on accident, not as a skill.

[Steelcan]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Not the focus of the dreams

Really now? This much vo for the dreams have no meaning?

  the stupid kid is the focus, we chase after him, watch him burst into flames.

And yet every time Shepard wakes up from the dream he talks about someone close to him he lost.

I remeber a"I miss Kaiden/Ashley" option in the diologue wheel after the first dream.

That means noting?

I don't miss Ashley. I killed her off for a reason

You know what the sheer irony of that is? Ashley gets more characterization than Shepard! You can be an absolute ass to her in previous games and in ME3, she outright tells you, "I hope the Reapers send you to hell." Meanwhile, Shepard always feels bad about every death, no more how he/she might have treated that person.

She didn't say anythig, the atomic blast cut her off

[RiouHotaru]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The Petrosky fate didn't decide it, but Petrosky himself was an underwhelming piece in an underwhelming DLC.

Oh well: it seems Biowware is only capable of interesting antagonists on accident, not as a skill.

Really?  I thought TIM was interesting, as was Saren.  I guess folks have a different idea of interesting though.