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[Giantdeathrobot]

Shepard wins the war, the Alliance comes along for the ride.  On the
ther hand, Cerberus is successful in their main goal, finding a way to
control the Reapers, but we can't use their research data, because.....

Eh? Creating and locally controlling Husks is a far cry from taking over every single Reaper. Henry Lawson says as much himself. If they can't even control Geth, how could they have any chance with the much, much more advanced Reapers?

It's funny you call the Alliance ineffectual, when Cerberus is shown to play with syringes for no good results from game 1. Go on, look at their track record, find me one project that wasn't the Lazarus or the Normandy SR-2 (pretty much the  only ones that don't involve horrible experiments) that actually was a success and genuinly advanced humanity in any sort of significant way or actually helped defeat the Reapers. I'll wait.

Meanwhile, the Alliance pours its significant resources into fighting the Reaper threat (such as co-developping the Thanix cannon), is the biggest source of EMS by far, and pretty much unconditionally supports Shepard once the forced stupidity of ME2 goes away. We see Alliance marines getting stuff done, meanwhile Cerberus is content to use Tresher Maws to murder soldiers, put autistic people in horrible tubes and try to blow up Tuchanka for the sheer lulz of it.

As for old Oleg, he gets to surrender once defeated, which is more than what most villains get in this series. Getting to rub it in Aria's face after ''supporting'' her is kinda nice. DLC is still very much overpriced but at least he wasn't the cackling megalomaniac I feared he would be. Also he  didn't have a cheesy faux-russian accent which alone is worth kudos.

[N7Gold]

Steelcan wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So there are two different reasons why I'm glad they didn't derail him into a space N*zi - character integrity and the mitigation of the message "human advancement is evil".

The Alliance is the organization for human advancement; Cerberus is its twisted and corrupt shadow (until it matures into another arm of the Reapers). I believe that they dropped the ball by not having more non-Cerberus people be seen to try to actively advance things (within all species), true, but that doesn't make Cerberus a good thing.

The Alliance is lazy and bureaucratic.  They don't get anything done until Shepard comes back.  They are useless.

How do you explain the cannons on Horizon and Ashley/Kaidan's appearance there? The Alliance knew about the Collectors and were doing something about it, they were just being hush-hush about it, that's why Anderson couldn't tell Shepard why Ashley/Kaidan was on Horizon, because he didn't want Cerberus to know that the Alliance IS aware of the colony abductions. The Alliance is not as useless as the Illusive Man leads you to believe.

. They sent one soldier and guns that didnt work.  They did a great job?  Cerberus put together an elite team and rebuilt Shepard and the Normandy, and stopped the Collectors.

The Alliance may be bound by rules and regulations, but for the most part the rules are there for good reasons. Illusive Man appointed the entire Cerberus crew of the Normandy like Kelly, Kenneth, Gabby, Rupert and letting Chakwas and Joker return to manipulate Shepard to believing that Cerberus is completely misunderstood by the Alliance. He used the "sympathetic faces" of Cerberus as a shield to conceal Cerberus's true colors from Shepard. The truth is Cerberus is not just made up of people like Kelly, Gabby, Kenneth and Rupert Gardner, the organization is also made up of ruthless xenophobics like Kai Leng, and morally confused people like Gavin Archer. And there are some people who are more honest and paragon natured unlike the Illusive Man, like Oleg Petrovsky.

Modifié par N7Gold, 28 novembre 2012 - 01:23 .

[Steelcan]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Shepard wins the war, the Alliance comes along for the ride.  On the
ther hand, Cerberus is successful in their main goal, finding a way to
control the Reapers, but we can't use their research data, because.....

Eh? Creating and locally controlling Husks is a far cry from taking over every single Reaper. Henry Lawson says as much himself. If they can't even control Geth, how could they have any chance with the much, much more advanced Reapers?

. Using the Crucible to broadcast the control signal.  The only difference between a husk and a reaper is scale.  I think the TIM is right, use the Crucible to control the reapers, not the Catalyst.

[Steelcan]

N7Gold wrote...

The Alliance may be bound by rules and regulations, but for the most part the rules are there for good reasons. Illusive Man appointed the entire Cerberus crew of the Normandy like Kelly, Kenneth, Gabby, Rupert and letting Chakwas and Joker return to manipulate Shepard to believing that Cerberus is completely misunderstood by the Alliance. He used the "sympathetic faces" of Cerberus as a shield to conceal Cerberus's true colors from Shepard. The truth is Cerberus is not just made up of people like Kelly, Gabby, Kenneth and Rupert Gardner, the organization is also made up of ruthless xenophobics like Kai Leng, and morally confused people like Gavin Archer. And there are some people who are more honest and paragon natured unlike the Illusive Man, like Oleg Petrovsky.

. Yes there are people who are less than admirable.  But there are still people in Cerberus who are decent, Kelly was already in Cerberus at the time of the Normandy's reconstruction, you mentioned Petrovsky, there's also Brynn Cole and her group, Jacob is a good guy, Miranda also comes to mind.  

Cerberus gets it done, the Alliance, not so much.

[Giantdeathrobot]

. Using the Crucible to broadcast the control signal.  The only
difference between a husk and a reaper is scale.  I think the TIM is
right, use the Crucible to control the reapers, not the Catalyst.

No, the difference is not scale. It's complexity. Look up Lawson's retort to TIM. It's very clear that they currently can only locally control human husks, that's it. If they could possibly do any more, they would not have feared a Reaper attack. Sanctuary was yet another big, senseless and cruel waste of life by Cerberus.

Also, the Crucible that the Alliance and it's oh so evil alien friends have built?

I rest my case.

Plus, you (sadly) cannot use the Crucible without the Catalyst.

TIM thinks he got it all figured out, but all along he was a thorn in the side of people who actuallygot stuff done.

[N7Gold]

Steelcan wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

The Alliance may be bound by rules and regulations, but for the most part the rules are there for good reasons. Illusive Man appointed the entire Cerberus crew of the Normandy like Kelly, Kenneth, Gabby, Rupert and letting Chakwas and Joker return to manipulate Shepard to believing that Cerberus is completely misunderstood by the Alliance. He used the "sympathetic faces" of Cerberus as a shield to conceal Cerberus's true colors from Shepard. The truth is Cerberus is not just made up of people like Kelly, Gabby, Kenneth and Rupert Gardner, the organization is also made up of ruthless xenophobics like Kai Leng, and morally confused people like Gavin Archer. And there are some people who are more honest and paragon natured unlike the Illusive Man, like Oleg Petrovsky.

. Yes there are people who are less than admirable.  But there are still people in Cerberus who are decent, Kelly was already in Cerberus at the time of the Normandy's reconstruction, you mentioned Petrovsky, there's also Brynn Cole and her group, Jacob is a good guy, Miranda also comes to mind.  

Cerberus gets it done, the Alliance, not so much.

Because Cerberus doesn't arrange a meeting with their officials to go out and do something, they just go out and take action impulsively, which is sometimes a bad move. The Alliance, on the other hand, I understand what you mean. I mean, in ME1, they are held down by politicians like Udina, who tried to put Shepard on lockdown from going to Ilos. Cerberus may seem perfect compared to the Alliance, but the truth is, neither one is perfect. The Alliance is represented as the paragon organization, and Cerberus is the renegade organization. In ME2, when we were working with them, the Illusive Man tried to put Cerberus in a more gray light, making Cerberus appear as if it is somewhere in between the paragon and renegade morality compared to the Alliance, which makes them appear more balanced than the Alliance, but the truth is, they are full on renegade, completely polar opposite to the Alliance.


When you compare the Alliance and Cerberus in Baldur's Gate type of morality, the Alliance is "Lawful Good", and Cerberus is "Chaotic Good".

Modifié par N7Gold, 28 novembre 2012 - 01:39 .

[Steelcan]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...
No, the difference is not scale. It's complexity. Look up Lawson's retort to TIM. It's very clear that they currently can only locally control human husks, that's it. If they could possibly do any more, they would not have feared a Reaper attack. Sanctuary was yet another big, senseless and cruel waste of life by Cerberus.

Also, the Crucible that the Alliance and it's oh so evil alien friends have built?

I rest my case.

Plus, you (sadly) cannot use the Crucible without the Catalyst.

TIM thinks he got it all figured out, but all along he was a thorn in the side of people who actuallygot stuff done.

. Adjuncts prove that Cerberus can control others besides human husks.  TIM said that a reaper was significant hurdle, one that was overcome.  Cerberus was cruel but it got the job done.

and maybe Snactuary was overwhelmed because Cerberus' signal was too weak?  Or because they shipped the tech to somewhere else once Sanctuary's goal was completed.

think of the Crucible as a giant power source that would be able to broadcast the Cerberus Reaper Control signal across the galaxy, putting all reapers under control.

[Steelcan]

N7Gold wrote..

Because Cerberus doesn't arrange a meeting with their officials to go out and do something, they just go out and take action impulsively, which is sometimes a bad move. The Alliance, on the other hand, I understand what you mean. I mean, in ME1, they are held down by politicians like Udina, who tried to put Shepard on lockdown from going to Ilos. Cerberus may seem perfect compared to the Alliance, but the truth is, neither one is perfect. The Alliance is represented as the paragon organization, and Cerberus is the renegade organization. In ME2, when we were working with them, the Illusive Man tried to put Cerberus in a more gray light, making Cerberus appear as if it is somewhere in between the paragon and renegade morality compared to the Alliance, which makes them appear more balanced than the Alliance, but the truth is, they are full on renegade, completely polar opposite to the Alliance.

When you compare the Alliance and Cerberus in Baldur's Gate type of morality, the Alliance is "Lawful Good", and Cerberus is "Chaotic Good".

. And I prefer them to the Alliance, they get stuff done.  The Alliance is too unwieldy and ineffective.

[Xilizhra]

When you compare the Alliance and Cerberus in Baldur's Gate type of morality, the Alliance is "Lawful Good", and Cerberus is "Chaotic Good".

Cerberus is neutral evil with some goodish window dressing.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

When you compare the Alliance and Cerberus in Baldur's Gate type of morality, the Alliance is "Lawful Good", and Cerberus is "Chaotic Good".

Cerberus is neutral evil with some goodish window dressing.

. The Alliance is Lawful Stupid.

[N7Gold]

Steelcan wrote...

N7Gold wrote..

Because Cerberus doesn't arrange a meeting with their officials to go out and do something, they just go out and take action impulsively, which is sometimes a bad move. The Alliance, on the other hand, I understand what you mean. I mean, in ME1, they are held down by politicians like Udina, who tried to put Shepard on lockdown from going to Ilos. Cerberus may seem perfect compared to the Alliance, but the truth is, neither one is perfect. The Alliance is represented as the paragon organization, and Cerberus is the renegade organization. In ME2, when we were working with them, the Illusive Man tried to put Cerberus in a more gray light, making Cerberus appear as if it is somewhere in between the paragon and renegade morality compared to the Alliance, which makes them appear more balanced than the Alliance, but the truth is, they are full on renegade, completely polar opposite to the Alliance.

When you compare the Alliance and Cerberus in Baldur's Gate type of morality, the Alliance is "Lawful Good", and Cerberus is "Chaotic Good".

. And I prefer them to the Alliance, they get stuff done.  The Alliance is too unwieldy and ineffective.

I prefer the Alliance over them. Cerberus is too ruthless and morally unbalanced. Plus they are led by a man who has been indoctrinated by Reapers for 3 decades. If Illusive Man was more honest and not so manipulative toward Shepard in ME2, maybe I would prefer them like you.

[Steelcan]

N7Gold wrote...


I prefer the Alliance over them. Cerberus is too ruthless and morally unbalanced. Plus they are led by a man who has been indoctrinated by Reapers for 3 decades. If Illusive Man was more honest and not so manipulative toward Shepard in ME2, maybe I would prefer them like you.

. If TIM had been indoctrinated the whole time he would not have opposed the Reapers, or found a plausible way to control them.

but I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree

[Giantdeathrobot]

. Adjuncts prove that Cerberus can control others besides human husks.
 TIM said that a reaper was significant hurdle, one that was overcome.
 Cerberus was cruel but it got the job done.

That was kind of an euphemism. The game would have shown if they were capable of controlling a Reaper, it's an acheivement even the Leviathans cannot do.

You also didn't prove me exactly how Cerberus gets the job done, again apart from Lazarus and the Normandy which didn't involve traditional Cerberus-like mad science. All of their other projects have been a failure of some degree.

Your understanding of the Catalyst is also deeply flawed. Only the Catalyst can (sadly) make it work. You can't just waltz in the control room, introduce a Reaper control program and save the day. Else TIM would have done it, he was present before Shepard and Anderson. But wait, indoctrination. And let's not forget that Cerberus has no hand in actually building the Crucible, while the ''useless'' Alliance spearheaded the project.

[N7Gold]

Steelcan wrote...

N7Gold wrote...


I prefer the Alliance over them. Cerberus is too ruthless and morally unbalanced. Plus they are led by a man who has been indoctrinated by Reapers for 3 decades. If Illusive Man was more honest and not so manipulative toward Shepard in ME2, maybe I would prefer them like you.

. If TIM had been indoctrinated the whole time he would not have opposed the Reapers, or found a plausible way to control them.

but I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree

The Reapers were using him to "divide and conquer", just like they did with the Prothean Empire, which is the main reason why they couldn't complete the Crucible. If everyone just followed one goal, they'd probably win the war. But because there are two factions with different methods, they would be at each other's throats over which method is the best way to defeat the Reapers. If the Alliance and Cerberus attack each other instead of teaming up to fight the Reapers, that would give the Reapers time to finish their harvest without much resistance. That's what the Reapers were using Illusive Man and Cerberus for, a divide and conquer tactic.

They underestimated Illusive Man and attacked Sanctuary to destroy the research. They don't want to be destroyed or controlled, they just want the Alliance and Cerberus to fight each other instead of fighting them.

Modifié par N7Gold, 28 novembre 2012 - 01:55 .

[Steelcan]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...
That was kind of an euphemism. The game would have shown if they were capable of controlling a Reaper, it's an acheivement even the Leviathans cannot do.

You also didn't prove me exactly how Cerberus gets the job done, again apart from Lazarus and the Normandy which didn't involve traditional Cerberus-like mad science. All of their other projects have been a failure of some degree.

Your understanding of the Catalyst is also deeply flawed. Only the Catalyst can (sadly) make it work. You can't just waltz in the control room, introduce a Reaper control program and save the day. Else TIM would have done it, he was present before Shepard and Anderson. But wait, indoctrination. And let's not forget that Cerberus has no hand in actually building the Crucible, while the ''useless'' Alliance spearheaded the project.

examples of Cerberus getting the job done.  Sanctuary, Teltin, they both worked.  And Lazarus was definatively mad science at work.

The Alliance did spearhead the Crucible, but they also didnt see an alternative.  Besides the only reason they know about it is because of an Asari.  They didnt know about it, and ey were sitting on it for decades.

And we don't know if you can waltz into the Control room, it's never shown.  And TIM couldn't have done it because he was indoctrinated, but there's no reason Shepard couldn't do it. 

[Steelcan]

N7Gold wrote...


The Reapers were using him to "divide and conquer", just like they did with the Prothean Empire, which is the main reason why they couldn't complete the Crucible. If everyone just followed one goal, they'd probably win the war. But because there are two factions with different methods, they would be at each other's throats over which method is the best way to defeat the Reapers. If the Alliance and Cerberus attack each other instead of teaming up to fight the Reapers, that would give the Reapers time to finish their harvest without much resistance. That's what the Reapers were using Illusive Man and Cerberus for, a divide and conquer tactic.

They underestimated Illusive Man and attacked Sanctuary to destroy the research. They don't want to be destroyed or controlled, they just want the Alliance and Cerberus to fight each other instead of fighting them.

. Precisely they underestimated TIMand Cerberus, they thought they were in Control but they weren't.  TIM wasn't fully indoctrinated until the Citadel.  And it almost bit the reapers in the ass.  But sadly we can't use their manner of control, we have to use god child's.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Teltin worked? Yeah it worked at creating Jack, who spends her time killing Cerberus when she's not helping Shepard. The facility was also completely lost. Oh, and wasn't this a ''rogue cell''? That's what you call a success?

As for Sanctuary, we went over it already. It didn't work at all. It was destroyed beforeany signnificant progress towards actuallycontrolling the Reapers.

As for the rest, you're making excuses. The Alliance and the aliens that helped it got actual stuff done. Cerberus, for all their posturing, didn't. Deal.

[Ieldra]

Xilizhra wrote...

So there are two different reasons why I'm glad they didn't derail him into a space N*zi - character integrity and the mitigation of the message "human advancement is evil".

The Alliance is the organization for human advancement; Cerberus is its twisted and corrupt shadow (until it matures into another arm of the Reapers). I believe that they dropped the ball by not having more non-Cerberus people be seen to try to actively advance things (within all species), true, but that doesn't make Cerberus a good thing.

You know how things are in fiction. If it's not shown or at least suggested at, it doesn't exist. Recall how the Alliance used Shepard as a poster boy for a few months only to drop him like a hot potato when he got inconvenient, while Cerberus brought him back to life and rebuilt the Normandy. The Alliance has zip to show in the category of the similarly awesome. They're a conventional army with a very conventional mindset, as evidenced by Kahoku when the speaks of creating supersoldiers as if that were something intrinsically evil, while totally disregarding that all Alliance soldiers are technically supersoldiers already since they all come with tailor-made genetic modifications (source: ME1 Codex).

So, what am I to do when I find some awesome achievement by the hand of Cerberus? Reject it along with the rest of the organization? Never, ever, and to hell with the message sent by the game. Since the Alliance has never represented human advancement at all, Ex-Cerberus people must do. Miranda, Brynn Cole and Petrovsky. And independents like Ann Bryson. It's not a coincidence that they all ended up in my list of favorite characters in the ME universe.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 novembre 2012 - 02:22 .

[Steelcan]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Teltin worked? Yeah it worked at creating Jack, who spends her time killing Cerberus when she's not helping Shepard. The facility was also completely lost. Oh, and wasn't this a ''rogue cell''? That's what you call a success?

As for Sanctuary, we went over it already. It didn't work at all. It was destroyed beforeany signnificant progress towards actuallycontrolling the Reapers.

As for the rest, you're making excuses. The Alliance and the aliens that helped it got actual stuff done. Cerberus, for all their posturing, didn't. Deal.

. Teltin did what it set out to do.  And Sanctuary did work, the logs prove that Control is possible.

They also succeded in finding practical applications for Reaper technology.  Their enhancements of their soldiers come to mind.

And Shepard got everything done, without Shepard the Alliance would have been screwed from day 1.  Who built the Alliances?  Who brought all the races together?  All the Alliance did was build the device, with significant help from Cerberus defectors.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Proving control is possible is not the same thing as actually controlling Reapers at all. They've proven controlling husks is possible, but as long as Reapers exist that's a bit of a useless knowledge.

Who cares about enhancement to their soldiers? They still got their asses handed to them every time they fight anybody. Turning civilians into mindless cyber-slaves is hardly an advancement for humanity unless all you want is cannon fodder.

And of course Shepard drives the plot, it's a video game. The PC is supposed to be at the center of it all, else we would watch a movie. The Alliance still gave the crucial support that Cerberus did not. Also watch the cutscene where the Alliance fleet makes putting the Crucible in place actually possible.

''Significant help from Cerberus defectors'' how exactly does that speak well for Cerberus when the only time they help is when people leave them? Their scientists amount to no more EMS than any other odd race's. Asari, Turian, Salarian, Geth, Rachni, many races worked on the Crucible, Ex-Cerberus is just one branch of that. The fact remains the Alliance spear-headed the project while Cerberus was busy turning people into Husks and indoctrinating themselves.

[Steelcan]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Proving control is possible is not the same thing as actually controlling Reapers at all. They've proven controlling husks is possible, but as long as Reapers exist that's a bit of a useless knowledge.

Who cares about enhancement to their soldiers? They still got their asses handed to them every time they fight anybody. Turning civilians into mindless cyber-slaves is hardly an advancement for humanity unless all you want is cannon fodder.
.

. They took over the Citadel, and had it not been for Shepard would have, prevented a genophage cure, detonated a bomb on Tuchunka, etc.... They are shown consistently to be a cut above the Alliance.

And please tell me, what is the difference between a husk and a whole reaper.  If they get the indoctrination signal they will both obey orders.  The only difference is scale.

Modifié par Steelcan, 28 novembre 2012 - 02:37 .

[Xilizhra]

You know how things are in fiction. If it's not shown or at least suggested at, it doesn't exist. Recall how the Alliance used Shepard as a poster boy for a few months only to drop him like a hot potato when he got inconvenient, while Cerberus brought him back to life and rebuilt the Normandy. The Alliance has zip to show in the category of the similarly awesome. They're a conventional army with a very conventional mindset, as evidenced by Kahoku when the speaks of creating supersoldiers as if that were something intrinsically evil, while totally disregarding that all Alliance soldiers are technically supersoldiers already since they all come with tailor-made genetic modifications (source: ME1 Codex).

The uses of rachni were undoubtedly evil; not realizing that the rachni, a spacefaring race that fought the Council and was winning until the krogan showed up, were sapient is so abysmally stupid that I can't let ignorance be an excuse for its malice. That's just sheer callous carelessness.

So, what am I to do when I find some awesome achievement by the hand of Cerberus? Reject it along with the rest of the organization? Never, ever, and to hell with the message sent by the game. Since the Alliance has never represented human advancement at all, Ex-Cerberus people must do. Miranda, Brynn Cole and Petrovsky. And independents like Ann Bryson. It's not a coincidence that they all ended up in my list of favorite characters in the ME universe.

Miranda was redeemed, and Brynn Cole was just ignorant until TIM started killing her compatriots, so I'm willing to let that slide. Petrovsky... well, ultimately, I don't kill people when I don't have to; I basically can't not show mercy if it's achievable, so I'll let him live. But I'll recommend that the Council be the one to imprison him, and not the Alliance, if possible. And don't get me wrong, I'll take everything Cerberus has and use it if it's useful; I do choose Control, after all. But just because I'm willing to use useful tools doesn't mean I won't kick Cerberus into oblivion as thoroughly as possible. And for "advancement" that can help the galaxy as a whole live better, the technological prowess of my Collectors will render Cerberus obsolete anyway.

[Giantdeathrobot]

The Citadel is protected by the Citadel Defense Force, basically glorified police, not the Alliance. As for Tuchanka, the Turians sent to disarm the bomb were stopped by Reapers, not Cerberus. And they're so a cut above that the Alliance curb-stomps them at the Cronos Station space battle. As for Shepard stopping them, again player agency. You're making this easy, you know.

And if I have to tell you the difference between a mindless body controlled by nanites and a ridiculously ancient and advanced AI construct that can control said mindless bodies at will, then I don't see why I should even bother.

[Ieldra]

@Xilizhra:
This is not about what happens in-game, this is about the message sent to the player, namely the one suggesting that radical advancement is evil by pairing it with an otherwise evil organization - and no one else! Arguing that is, of course, an association fallacy, but messages sent by stories work that way, and they usually do so successfully, as certain aspects of the ending debate show.

[N7Gold]

Steelcan wrote...

N7Gold wrote...


The Reapers were using him to "divide and conquer", just like they did with the Prothean Empire, which is the main reason why they couldn't complete the Crucible. If everyone just followed one goal, they'd probably win the war. But because there are two factions with different methods, they would be at each other's throats over which method is the best way to defeat the Reapers. If the Alliance and Cerberus attack each other instead of teaming up to fight the Reapers, that would give the Reapers time to finish their harvest without much resistance. That's what the Reapers were using Illusive Man and Cerberus for, a divide and conquer tactic.

They underestimated Illusive Man and attacked Sanctuary to destroy the research. They don't want to be destroyed or controlled, they just want the Alliance and Cerberus to fight each other instead of fighting them.

. Precisely they underestimated TIMand Cerberus, they thought they were in Control but they weren't.  TIM wasn't fully indoctrinated until the Citadel.  And it almost bit the reapers in the ass.  But sadly we can't use their manner of control, we have to use god child's.

I don't like the "god child's" method of destroying or controlling the Reapers either, and I definitely don't like Synthesis either. I got a feeling that the Crucible is not what everyone thinks it is. I also think the Leviathans and the "god child" know the Crucible inside and out, and what it can do, they just don't want to tell Shepard about its origins.

Shepard: "Who designed it?"

The Intelligence (a.k.a. the Catalyst or "god child"): "You would not know them, and there is not enough time to explain."

Shepard: "What do you know about the Crucible?"

Leviathan: "(shifts eyes for a few seconds) ...We've watched its construction before. It has never been completed. Those who have tried still fell victim to the harvest. It's outcome is unknown."

Modifié par N7Gold, 28 novembre 2012 - 03:03 .