968 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Xilizhra:
This is not about what happens in-game, this is about the message sent to the player, namely the one suggesting that radical advancement is evil by pairing it with an otherwise evil organization - and no one else! Arguing that is, of course, an association fallacy, but messages sent by stories work that way, and they usually do so successfully, as certain aspects of the ending debate show.

So you'd like other organizations, including nonhuman ones, to be working on radical advancement projects, so that Cerberus would be distinguished only by its atrocities?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 28 novembre 2012 - 03:06 .

[Steelcan]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

The Citadel is protected by the Citadel Defense Force, basically glorified police, not the Alliance. As for Tuchanka, the Turians sent to disarm the bomb were stopped by Reapers, not Cerberus. And they're so a cut above that the Alliance curb-stomps them at the Cronos Station space battle. As for Shepard stopping them, again player agency. You're making this easy, you know.

And if I have to tell you the difference between a mindless body controlled by nanites and a ridiculously ancient and advanced AI construct that can control said mindless bodies at will, then I don't see why I should even bother.

. Captain Bailey in ME2, a "human fleet guarding the Citadel", and you saw Alliance soldiers firing in a cutscene.  

Ceberus was responsible for digging up the bomb and arming it, they only get "curb stomped" because its their last major base.  The Allaince can throw a lot more ships at them than Cerberus can muster.  And player agency isn't a reason, without Shepard, Cerberus would have had free reign.

the difference between the two is minimal.  They are controlled via remote signal, Cerberus found a way to use this signal to their own advantage.

[JeffZero]

I'm glad we could spare him. I wouldn't have been thrilled if Shepard auto-killed him, what with all the information he could offer to the Alliance.

[Steelcan]

N7Gold wrote...

I don't like the "god child's" method of destroying or controlling the Reapers either, and I definitely don't like Synthesis either. I got a feeling that the Crucible is not what everyone thinks it is. I also think the Leviathans and the "god child" know the Crucible inside and out, and what it can do, they just don't want to tell Shepard about its origins.

Shepard: "Who designed it?"

The Intelligence (a.k.a. the Catalyst or "god child"): "You would not know them, and there is not enough time to explain."

Shepard: "What do you know about the Crucible?"

Leviathan: "(shifts eyes for a few seconds) ...We've watched its construction before. It has never been completed. Those who have tried still fell victim to the harvest. It's outcome is unknown."

. Destroy can be reasonably explained, but its still a stretch.  Control as presented by the Catalyst is laughable, as is everything about Synthesis.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Steelcan wrote...

 Captain Bailey in ME2, a "human fleet guarding the Citadel", and you saw Alliance soldiers firing in a cutscene.  

Ceberus was responsible for digging up the bomb and arming it, they only get "curb stomped" because its their last major base.  The Allaince can throw a lot more ships at them than Cerberus can muster.  And player agency isn't a reason, without Shepard, Cerberus would have had free reign.

the difference between the two is minimal.  They are controlled via remote signal, Cerberus found a way to use this signal to their own advantage.

''And my plans would have worked too, if not for you meddling kids!'. That's it, TIM is a Scooby-Doo villain. Perfect analogy.

As for the Citadel, Bioware laziness. The Citadel is defended by a few ships from each council race, and the CDF is a multi-racial police force. It's not the Alliance. They also had an inside man in Udina.

If the difference is so minimal, why didn't they manage to actually do it? Why does the project lead say it's a much bigger challenge?

[Steelcan]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

''And my plans would have worked too, if not for you meddling kids!'. That's it, TIM is a Scooby-Doo villain. Perfect analogy.

As for the Citadel, Bioware laziness. The Citadel is defended by a few ships from each council race, and the CDF is a multi-racial police force. It's not the Alliance. They also had an inside man in Udina.

If the difference is so minimal, why didn't they manage to actually do it? Why does the project lead say it's a much bigger challenge?

. I think the overall problem was Cerberus' simplification.  They were evil and that was it, their ideas were lunacy and their leader a madman.  

And the CDF was wiped out in the Battle for the Citadel.  Alliance fleets guard the Citadel.

[Legbiter]

Do you get a war asset out of Petrovsky if you spare him? My Shep blew his brains out.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Legbiter wrote...

Do you get a war asset out of Petrovsky if you spare him? My Shep blew his brains out.

Yes. He is worth 30 War assets.

[Steelcan]

Legbiter wrote...

Do you get a war asset out of Petrovsky if you spare him? My Shep blew his brains out.

. Yes you do, 30

[Giantdeathrobot]

The C-Sec (not CDF, my mistake) is alive and well in ME3. They just get beaten because of Udina's senseless trachery and inferior training, being policemen and not soldiers.

Cerberus was always like that, in a way. In ME1 they were mad scientists that experimented on Rachni, murdered admirals, and wiped out Alliance aquads with Tresher Maws for the lulz of it. They just adopted a prretty face in ME2.

[Steelcan]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

The C-Sec (not CDF, my mistake) is alive and well in ME3. They just get beaten because of Udina's senseless trachery and inferior training, being policemen and not soldiers.

Cerberus was always like that, in a way. In ME1 they were mad scientists that experimented on Rachni, murdered admirals, and wiped out Alliance aquads with Tresher Maws for the lulz of it. They just adopted a prretty face in ME2.

. We don't know why they did that.  The Why is extremely important.  For all we know they had valid reasons to do so.

[Catastrophy]

So what is OP's "final verdict" now?

[dreman9999]

Steelcan wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

''And my plans would have worked too, if not for you meddling kids!'. That's it, TIM is a Scooby-Doo villain. Perfect analogy.

As for the Citadel, Bioware laziness. The Citadel is defended by a few ships from each council race, and the CDF is a multi-racial police force. It's not the Alliance. They also had an inside man in Udina.

If the difference is so minimal, why didn't they manage to actually do it? Why does the project lead say it's a much bigger challenge?

. I think the overall problem was Cerberus' simplification.  They were evil and that was it, their ideas were lunacy and their leader a madman.  

And the CDF was wiped out in the Battle for the Citadel.  Alliance fleets guard the Citadel.

But it never was that simple. Cerberus was alwaysan extremist group that did extreme things to  get to there goal. Cerberus goal stayedthesame in ME3, the only thingthatchanged was their means to that goal. And their means tothat goal was always immoral. Is it a surprize that an extremist group that use immoral mean to their goal that theythink is just use more immoral means to said just goals?

[Steelcan]

dreman9999 wrote...


But it never was that simple. Cerberus was alwaysan extremist group that did extreme things to  get to there goal. Cerberus goal stayedthesame in ME3, the only thingthatchanged was their means to that goal. And their means tothat goal was always immoral. Is it a surprize that an extremist group that use immoral mean to their goal that theythink is just use more immoral means to said just goals?

. But they weren't stupid about it.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...

Miranda was redeemed,

Miranda doesn't need to be "redeemed", thank you very much.

Modifié par MisterJB, 28 novembre 2012 - 06:28 .

[Ieldra]

dr_random wrote...
So what is OP's "final verdict" now?

I'm still playing. Oleg is very much OK and I'm very relieved we can spare him.

Shepard's autodialogue has gained the doubtful honor of having become ME3's most annoying downside. That impacts the good news about Oleg because it adversely affects roleplaying. Dialogue lines that define core aspects of Shepard's personality, emotions and motivations (beyond "I want to stop the Reapers") should be left for the player to choose or avoid.

@MisterJB:
Very much that.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 novembre 2012 - 05:00 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

Xilizhra wrote...

Miranda was redeemed.

What had Miranda done that require redemption in the first place? In ME2, Cerberus' methods were certainly ruthless, but produced results. Miranda makes a logical conclusion when theorizes had the Alliance had Geth or Rachnii as shock troops, many human lives could be spared. Be mindful, this preceded any understanding of the Geth beyond "a synthetic." TIM is who you can argue crossed the line, not Miranda.

[MisterJB]

By far, the high point of the DLC. Alternatively, the only good point.

[behellmorph]

I was so relived to see that he wasn't indoctrinated in Omega. He still does behave like he did in Invasion, like how he protests about Shepard disabling the reactor which will result in the deaths of many civilians but did not criticize Shepard for diverting power and he still is good at plans. His trap in the reactor was nice. He valued the lifes of his troops which is evident when he surrenders. Sure it would have been better and more accurate if he and Shepard had more conversations between each over and Oleg willingly defecting but at least he still has a personality and he can survive. Though I doubt we will see him again.

He was the best part in Invasion, he was such a drastic change from the typical Ceberus nut case and he was interesting to read about. At least he was more true to his character than what Kei Leng was.

[Ieldra]

I can now say that I am ok with the decisions we get to make. We can spare Petrovsky, he comes across nicely, and the dreaded autodialogue line reported to me was just "That's not happening", which I find ok at that moment, given Petrovsky's tone. There is no stupidity in that line. I would have preferred a more nuanced reply, given my Shepard's past history with Cerberus, which again should've been brought up in the final scene with Petrovsky, but what I got is ok and very much better than what I feared would happen.

The writing is subpar at times, and sometimes I think the writers didn't know how to get their point across, but at least it all made sense And I like Nyreen which I didn't expect.

I do not regret having bought this DLC and I will recommend it. However, it is rather expensive given its length. Since I like the great visuals which are probably partly responsible for the price, I don't have a problem with it but it may put other people off.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 novembre 2012 - 09:21 .

[CosmicGnosis]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I can now say that I am ok with the decisions we get to make. We can spare Petrovsky, he comes across nicely, and the dreaded autodialogue line reported to me was just "That's not happening", which I find ok at that moment, given Petrovsky's tone. There is no stupidity in that line. I would have preferred a more nuanced reply, given my Shepard's past history with Cerberus, which again should've been brought up in the final scene with Petrovsky, but what I got is ok and very much better than what I feared would happen.

The writing is subpar at times, and sometimes I think the writers didn't know how to get their point across, but at least it all made sense And I like Nyreen which I didn't expect.

I do not regret having bought this DLC and I will recommend it. However, it is rather expensive given its length. Since I like the great visuals which are probably partly responsible for the price, I don't have a problem with it but it may put other people off.

Thanks, this gives me hope.

[behellmorph]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I can now say that I am ok with the decisions we get to make. We can spare Petrovsky, he comes across nicely, and the dreaded autodialogue line reported to me was just "That's not happening", which I find ok at that moment, given Petrovsky's tone. There is no stupidity in that line. I would have preferred a more nuanced reply, given my Shepard's past history with Cerberus, which again should've been brought up in the final scene with Petrovsky, but what I got is ok and very much better than what I feared would happen.

The writing is subpar at times, and sometimes I think the writers didn't know how to get their point across, but at least it all made sense And I like Nyreen which I didn't expect.

I do not regret having bought this DLC and I will recommend it. However, it is rather expensive given its length. Since I like the great visuals which are probably partly responsible for the price, I don't have a problem with it but it may put other people off.

Yeah I was terified of what Bioware was gonna do to Oleg, after what they did to keil Leng who was awesome in Retribution i was scared that Oleg was gonna be turned into another generic racist.
This to me was the one saving grace of Omega, though Nyreen was great as a character...before she snuffed it.
Oleg is still a decent guy with no sign of malice, he respected Nyreen and really did seem shamed that Nyreen died just for Aria's goals. That line did not seem like a creul taunt to me.

He showed respect to Shepard for having a positive effect on Aria which was nice. Oleg did not seem like a coward who was just sucking up.

I doubt we will see him again, it would be a nice suprise, but all things considered: I am happy with how this played out, maybe at some point Oleg joined the war proper against the Reapers.

[CroGamer002]

MisterJB wrote...

By far, the high point of the DLC. Alternatively, the only good point.

All I wanted there is an option to say:
"Yeah, you're right. That queenpin can just rot!"



"Though, Nyreen can go go unharmed and free. OK?"




Well, not exactly THAT way but still.





I really hate Bioware for making Shepard very narrowminded in ME3.

[Ieldra]

@Mesina, MisterJB:
Getting a choice to win Petrovsky over and go against Aria would've made my day. It would've been easy to write - a man as intelligent as Petrovsky will surely wonder what TIM is up to and why he wouldn't ally with anyone else.

That's not the story they wanted to tell though. Too bad, but still what we got is much better than the worst-case scenario I feared.

[WhiteKnyght]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Mesina, MisterJB:
Getting a choice to win Petrovsky over and go against Aria would've made my day. It would've been easy to write - a man as intelligent as Petrovsky will surely wonder what TIM is up to and why he wouldn't ally with anyone else.

That's not the story they wanted to tell though. Too bad, but still what we got is much better than the worst-case scenario I feared.

That circumstance wouldn't do well for Omega. If Petrovsky turns, he's one man. And if Aria is gone, Omega is left defenseless against Cerberus, and the next general might be worse.

Aria is a necessary evil, because she can keep Omega out of Cerberus' hands. And softening her character is a win in my book.

And Petrovsky doesn't need to be won over. The man is a strategist by nature. He switched sides all on his own because he was shown that Cerberus wasn't the winning side. As good as he was, Shepard was better.