968 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

Barquiel wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...
After hearing the logs in the lab I wouldn't have stopped Aria from killing him. But since my Shep "paragonized" Aria, he was lucky.

I see experimenting on Adjutants as akin to experimenting on mindless zombies. Perhaps a bit tasteless, but not nearly on the same level as experimenting on humans.

Of course the story suggests that it's just as bad, and even worse, it leaves the player who doesn't know Invasion to assume he was responsible for their creation in the first place. Nothing new here. I'm taking Miranda's stance from ME2 instead.

The scientists said they tested the "adjutant" virus on various species. They implanted Omega's citizens with control devices, then infect them with the Adjutant virus to create an army of obedient Adjutants. That's more than a bit tasteless, imo.

Aria: No one is innocent on Omega.

Said right in the dlc. Aria didn't care what the scientist where doing the bowls of Omega, all she cared about was they where doing that crap on "her" station. I like Aria but she aint no saint.

[Barquiel]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...
After hearing the logs in the lab I wouldn't have stopped Aria from killing him. But since my Shep "paragonized" Aria, he was lucky.

I see experimenting on Adjutants as akin to experimenting on mindless zombies. Perhaps a bit tasteless, but not nearly on the same level as experimenting on humans.

Of course the story suggests that it's just as bad, and even worse, it leaves the player who doesn't know Invasion to assume he was responsible for their creation in the first place. Nothing new here. I'm taking Miranda's stance from ME2 instead.

The scientists said they tested the "adjutant" virus on various species. They implanted Omega's citizens with control devices, then infect them with the Adjutant virus to create an army of obedient Adjutants. That's more than a bit tasteless, imo.

Did they say they used Omega's citizens? I don't think so. All I heard was them experimenting on adjutants, not creating new ones.

Hm, they said they can control how and where the adjutants convert their victims, and that they tested it on various species. And with the civilian population contained, they wanted to initiate the "next phase of the project".

2:50...

[Mr.House]

Which cilvians where they using though barq, that's the quesiton. For all we know they could be using scum that should get a bullet in the head. We have no clue. Again.

Aria: No one's innocent on Omega.

Where this on the Citadel I might be more harsh on Oleg(despite the fact that what does scientist where doing is not his job) but this is Omega. It's a free station where anything goes, that means it attracts scum like honey attracts bees.

[dreman9999]

Mr.House wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

dr_random wrote...

I was tempted to Paragon intervene, but then I thought about the experiments and the Adjutants. I let her have it and felt a bit bad after it. But sometimes justice has to be done.

You call strangling a man near death/to death is justice?!

That's no justice, that's( attempted) murder!

Let's not forget when Aria's eyes went black he died, way after the crack. Something fishy is going on.

Asari link their nervus system with others this way to take and place info with that being. Liara did this with Shepard in ME1 to see what he saw in the vision and her mother did so with the rachni queen to gain the location of the mu ray..By force. Sheila in ME1 also did this to give Shepard info.

Personally, I just see it like Aria was mind raping to feel his pain as he die while add her own brand of mental torture.


In short, Asari canbescary.

[dreman9999]

Barquiel wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...
After hearing the logs in the lab I wouldn't have stopped Aria from killing him. But since my Shep "paragonized" Aria, he was lucky.

I see experimenting on Adjutants as akin to experimenting on mindless zombies. Perhaps a bit tasteless, but not nearly on the same level as experimenting on humans.

Of course the story suggests that it's just as bad, and even worse, it leaves the player who doesn't know Invasion to assume he was responsible for their creation in the first place. Nothing new here. I'm taking Miranda's stance from ME2 instead.

The scientists said they tested the "adjutant" virus on various species. They implanted Omega's citizens with control devices, then infect them with the Adjutant virus to create an army of obedient Adjutants. That's more than a bit tasteless, imo.

Did they say they used Omega's citizens? I don't think so. All I heard was them experimenting on adjutants, not creating new ones.

Hm, they said they can control how and where the adjutants convert their victims, and that they tested it on various species. And with the civilian population contained, they wanted to initiate the "next phase of the project".

2:50...

But under who's orders?

[Barquiel]

Mr.House wrote...

Aria: No one is innocent on Omega.

Said right in the dlc. Aria didn't care what the scientist where doing the bowls of Omega, all she cared about was they where doing that crap on "her" station. I like Aria but she aint no saint.

Agreed

But she's the lesser of two evils here. And maybe "paragon" Aria improves the lives of the people on Omega a bit

[dreman9999]

Nimrodell wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Mesina, MisterJB:
Getting a choice to win Petrovsky over and go against Aria would've made my day. It would've been easy to write - a man as intelligent as Petrovsky will surely wonder what TIM is up to and why he wouldn't ally with anyone else.

That's not the story they wanted to tell though. Too bad, but still what we got is much better than the worst-case scenario I feared.

That just could not happen now, given state of Mass Effect players toward the franchise - to be honest, since they announced Omega DLC and shenanigans with Aria, I thought that they are actually pandering to all those topics and posts that requested moar Aria! I said many times on this forum - I just don't understand that focus on her character apart from the fact that she's somehow virtual dreamgirl for many players... beats me, guess my feminine POV is ruining it for me.

But anyway, told ya you'll be actually ok with Petrovsky here and I'm glad that one more of your threads is so well visited .

I just wish BW didn't focus so much on combat and gave more to the story, ah well, can't have it all I guess. At least the episode 5 of The Walking Dead didn't repeat the mistake from episode 4 - too much combat kinda ruins it when you actually have interesting story. Now back to my sith warrior to fight for the Empire lol.

There really not mach chance to focus on story on a consept of a dlc about a battle. Saving private ryan did not have a complex story.

[Ieldra]

@Barquiel:
I think it's suggestive but still intentionally ambiguous. The thing is, Petrovsky appears to care at least somewhat about the people of the station, so if they used people at all I can imagine he would restrict it to the worst kind. Also, he expects to be treated as a POW, and he couldn't reasonably expect that if he turned dissenters into Adjutants.

[Steelcan]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
As for me not feeling sympathy, if the people are already dead I don't see any need for sympathy.  The adjutants are no more deserving of sympathy than husks or collectors.  They are rabid dgs to be used or put down, nothing more.

I think the idea is to make experimenting on them seem bad because they were once human. It's the same reasoning that makes people destroy the Collector base because of what was done there. But past is past.

Having said that, I see all life forms as valid and as a rule wouldn't kill anything just for existing. Our typical hierarchy of values makes us see experimenting on animals as not nearly as bad as experimenting on humans, though you'd still have a duty to avoid causing unnecessary pain. I'd put the Adjutants in the same category. If they were sapient I would consider them on the same level as humans, and experimenting on them would be equal to experimenting on POWs.

But they aren't sapient, so I don't have a big problem with how things go. 

. But there is no evidence to suggest they are sapient. The seem very flood-like to me.  A virus that exists only to perpetuate itself, it's just being guided by Cerberus.

 I think the renegade dialogue after Sanctuary is a good idea. "If you can tell yourself that those people were already dead, then their deaths are worth something"

[Mr.House]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Barquiel:
I think it's suggestive but still intentionally ambiguous. The thing is, Petrovsky appears to care at least somewhat about the people of the station, so if they used people at all I can imagine he would restrict it to the worst kind. Also, he expects to be treated as a POW, and he couldn't reasonably expect that if he turned dissenters into Adjutants.

I expected if it was Omega civies, it was the worst scum that Aria would just kill herself. That's my feeling on it anyways.

[Steelcan]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Barquiel:
I think it's suggestive but still intentionally ambiguous. The thing is, Petrovsky appears to care at least somewhat about the people of the station, so if they used people at all I can imagine he would restrict it to the worst kind. Also, he expects to be treated as a POW, and he couldn't reasonably expect that if he turned dissenters into Adjutants.

He could still expect it, "Rules of Engagement". He would expect to be treated decently and I think that is why he turns coat so quickly, he knows its over and he wants to be treated well.

Look at what Americans did to n*zis after WW2.  The ones we could use we gave amnesty and brought them to America.

[Ieldra]

@Nimrodell:
I'm a man and I'm just as mystified by the demand for "moar Aria" that occasionally flares up here. As I've repeatedly said, I respect her but I don't like her.

[Xilizhra]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Barquiel:
I think it's suggestive but still intentionally ambiguous. The thing is, Petrovsky appears to care at least somewhat about the people of the station, so if they used people at all I can imagine he would restrict it to the worst kind. Also, he expects to be treated as a POW, and he couldn't reasonably expect that if he turned dissenters into Adjutants.

Actually, he easily could. Moral myopia is a very real thing.

[Catastrophy]

Mr.House wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

dr_random wrote...

I was tempted to Paragon intervene, but then I thought about the experiments and the Adjutants. I let her have it and felt a bit bad after it. But sometimes justice has to be done.

You call strangling a man near death/to death is justice?!

That's no justice, that's( attempted) murder!

Let's not forget when Aria's eyes went black he died, way after the crack. Something fishy is going on.

Oh, yes, that was creepy. But Liara does that, too when "Embracing Eternity" and Shiala as well. So I doubt it's Ardat-Yakshi stuff.

Now, I know you people take into account info from other sources (comics). I do not and what I can judge from is from what I know from the game.
I felt he didn't deserve to get away cheap, but like I said - I felt a bit bad after it.

Another thing, I had a number of playthroughs with Renegade Shepards and I saw her do quite some sh*t. When I say, i felt bad, it's because I feel it doesn't match the Shepard I'm currently playing (This time she was Paragon mostly). While I tend to keep decisions in line with my own views, there are playthroughs were my own views are far from those, that Shepard represents.

[dreman9999]

dr_random wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

dr_random wrote...

I was tempted to Paragon intervene, but then I thought about the experiments and the Adjutants. I let her have it and felt a bit bad after it. But sometimes justice has to be done.

You call strangling a man near death/to death is justice?!

That's no justice, that's( attempted) murder!

Let's not forget when Aria's eyes went black he died, way after the crack. Something fishy is going on.

Oh, yes, that was creepy. But Liara does that, too when "Embracing Eternity" and Shiala as well. So I doubt it's Ardat-Yakshi stuff.

Now, I know you people take into account info from other sources (comics). I do not and what I can judge from is from what I know from the game.
I felt he didn't deserve to get away cheap, but like I said - I felt a bit bad after it.

Another thing, I had a number of playthroughs with Renegade Shepards and I saw her do quite some sh*t. When I say, i felt bad, it's because I feel it doesn't match the Shepard I'm currently playing (This time she was Paragon mostly). While I tend to keep decisions in line with my own views, there are playthroughs were my own views are far from those, that Shepard represents.

Asari link their nervus system with others this way to take and place info with that being. Liara did this with Shepard in ME1 to see what he saw in the vision and her mother did so with the rachni queen to gain the location of the mu ray..By force. Sheila in ME1 also did this to give Shepard info.

Personally, I just see it like Aria was mind raping to feel his pain as he die while add her own brand of mental torture.


In short, Asari can be scary.

[Mr.House]

Never said her eyes oging black means she's an Ardat-Yakshi . However her eyes going black, the camara going right to her eyes when that happens, Oleg dies two seconds after that happens, way after you hear a crack which means he was still alive before the black eyes happen. All she did was did something to his mind. Aria is a 1000 years old, it's not imposable to think she can kill someone while she "embraces eternity" without the Ardat-Yakshi strand. It's also possible she just did some quick mind torture before he died. But it's clear Bioware wanted us to talk about the eyes.

[dreman9999]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Nimrodell:
I'm a man and I'm just as mystified by the demand for "moar Aria" that occasionally flares up here. As I've repeatedly said, I respect her but I don't like her.

Don't take this the wrong way but the writing on the wall for this story has been there for a while.

[dreman9999]

Mr.House wrote...

Never said her eyes oging black means she's an Ardat-Yakshi . However her eyes going black, the camara going right to her eyes when that happens, Oleg dies two seconds after that happens, way after you hear a crack which means he was still alive before the black eyes happen. All she did was did something to his mind. Aria is a 1000 years old, it's not imposable to think she can kill someone while she "embraces eternity" without the Ardat-Yakshi strand. It's also possible she just did some quick mind torture before he died. But it's clear Bioware wanted us to talk about the eyes.

A person does not die instataiously from a broken neck. They die slowly.

[MassStorm]

I like Petrovsky, he is clearly a honorable man on the wrong side of the war. Loyal to his ideals and caring about his troops. I kind of imagine he would have used the Adjutants as some sort of expendable shock troopers in order to minimize troopers casualties. Always saved him.

I respect how he surrenders himself, he did what he could to win as a warrior but lost in the end. Admitting defeat is something to respect. Plus he has useful intel and i don't kill surrending people. Had he be the leader of Cerberus i would have loved the organization. This is how villains should be....the psycho type is too cheap IMO.Cerberus should have remained morally grey, more on the pragmatic side instead of outright evil.

Modifié par MassStorm, 29 novembre 2012 - 02:38 .

[Steelcan]

MassStorm wrote...

I like Petrovsky, he is clearly a honorable man on the wrong side of the war. Loyal to his ideals and caring about his troops. I kind of imagine he would have used the Adjutants as some sort of expendable shock troopers in order to minimize troopers casualties. Always saved him.

I respect how he surrenders himself, he did what he could to win as a warrior but lost in the end. Admitting defeat is something to respect. Plus he has useful intel and i don't kill surrending people. Had he be the leader of Cerberus i would have loved the organization. This is how villains should be....the psycho type is too cheap IMO.

. The indoctrinated type is cheap.  There aren't any lunatics in Cerberus, well maybe Ashe, Kai Leng

[Mr.House]

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Never said her eyes oging black means she's an Ardat-Yakshi . However her eyes going black, the camara going right to her eyes when that happens, Oleg dies two seconds after that happens, way after you hear a crack which means he was still alive before the black eyes happen. All she did was did something to his mind. Aria is a 1000 years old, it's not imposable to think she can kill someone while she "embraces eternity" without the Ardat-Yakshi strand. It's also possible she just did some quick mind torture before he died. But it's clear Bioware wanted us to talk about the eyes.

A person does not die instataiously from a broken neck. They die slowly.

Not all the time. Aria simply did it so she could do something, which had to do with his mind.

[MassStorm]

Steelcan wrote...

MassStorm wrote...

I like Petrovsky, he is clearly a honorable man on the wrong side of the war. Loyal to his ideals and caring about his troops. I kind of imagine he would have used the Adjutants as some sort of expendable shock troopers in order to minimize troopers casualties. Always saved him.

I respect how he surrenders himself, he did what he could to win as a warrior but lost in the end. Admitting defeat is something to respect. Plus he has useful intel and i don't kill surrending people. Had he be the leader of Cerberus i would have loved the organization. This is how villains should be....the psycho type is too cheap IMO.

. The indoctrinated type is cheap.  There aren't any lunatics in Cerberus, well maybe Ashe, Kai Leng

Sorry yes i meant indoctrination which is a cheap device to make perfectly normal people behaving like psychos.

Mr.House wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Never
said her eyes oging black means she's an Ardat-Yakshi . However her
eyes going black, the camara going right to her eyes when that happens,
Oleg dies two seconds after that happens, way after you hear a crack
which means he was still alive before the black eyes happen. All she did
was did something to his mind. Aria is a 1000 years old, it's not
imposable to think she can kill someone while she "embraces eternity"
without the Ardat-Yakshi strand. It's also possible she just did some
quick mind torture before he died. But it's clear Bioware wanted us to
talk about the eyes.

A person does not die instataiously from a broken neck. They die slowly.

Not all the time. Aria simply did it so she could do something, which had to do with his mind.

You are suggesting she is Ardat-Yakshi???

Modifié par MassStorm, 29 novembre 2012 - 02:52 .

[jtav]

Yeah, it was kind of nice to take a break from fighting ultimate evil and do battle with an antagonist who is allowed to have his virtues. A bit like Loghain, actually.

Though I'd love to know how Oleg and his men avoided indoctrination.

[Steelcan]

jtav wrote...

Yeah, it was kind of nice to take a break from fighting ultimate evil and do battle with an antagonist who is allowed to have his virtues. A bit like Loghain, actually.

Though I'd love to know how Oleg and his men avoided indoctrination.

. The Cerberus indoctrination was caused by implanting reaper tech into their heads, then using the control signal to keep them under control.  When it fails you get the soldiers on Benning.

I don't see Petrovsky allowing the enhancements

[Ieldra]

Xilizhra wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Barquiel:
I think it's suggestive but still intentionally ambiguous. The thing is, Petrovsky appears to care at least somewhat about the people of the station, so if they used people at all I can imagine he would restrict it to the worst kind. Also, he expects to be treated as a POW, and he couldn't reasonably expect that if he turned dissenters into Adjutants.

Actually, he easily could. Moral myopia is a very real thing.

Yes, but in the case of an otherwise cool-headed, intelligent and honorable man I would require some evidence before assuming it. Say the same about TIM, and I'll believe it rather more easily.