968 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

corporal doody wrote...

dont care about the dude either way. Dude knows what Cerberus is doing....its methods...and he chooses to remain in Cerberus. If he was a commanding general for the German army in WWII and got caught by the allies...he would be tried for war crimes and HUNG by his neck till dead. 

If he really had a conscieous he would have resigned in protest or shot himself or joined up with the Alliance....not stayed on Omega knowing damned well what he was doing.

You do know that Cerberus cells are kept in dark from each other?

Miranda says that in ME2.
For example, Lazarus Cell had no idea about Overlord Cell nor vice versa.

It is a safe guard to keep secrecy much better and for all Cell leaders to report directly to Illusive Man.


And from Invasion comics, Oleg never find out that incident that caused Adjutants on Omega was staged by Illusive Man.

So no, he ain't fully aware about Cerberus methods. Nor were Jacob and Miranda until much later on.


And same for WW2 German generals.
Most didn't knew about Hitler's Final Solution until much later on.
When they still find out, they didn't start to give up to Allies or do suicides.
No, they continued to do their jobs while secretly plotting to assassinate Hitler and take down his loyalists.
And reason for that is because they knew that their entire country would suffer Hitler's actions were discovered to world.

And I'm sure Oleg would have do the something similar, if he discovered what Illusive Man is really doing.

[wright1978]

corporal doody wrote...

jtav wrote...

Character consistency would be nice, especially since this wasn't rushed out the door.

homeboy is starving civilians (mostly nonhumans) and slaughtering anyone who opposes their occupation of Omega...for the greater good. It hurts his feelings....but he is doing it for the betterment of mankind.

And how's that consistent with previous characterisation

From Petrovsky wiki
"Petrovsky expresses outrage that Ashe would endanger Cerberus's troops and the station's civilians, but Ashe argues that they are acceptable losses. They struggle briefly before Aria hurls the Adjutant into them. It infects Ashe before Aria finishes it off. As his subordinate transforms, Petrovsky kills him to protect his men. "

[spirosz]

You know what might be funny, before the release of ME3, there was a bunch of hype from what we saw and look how that turned out for a lot of us, what if, you do the opposite with Omega? It might surprise you, never knowwwwwwwwwwwwww.

[corporal doody]

Mesina2 wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

dont care about the dude either way. Dude knows what Cerberus is doing....its methods...and he chooses to remain in Cerberus. If he was a commanding general for the German army in WWII and got caught by the allies...he would be tried for war crimes and HUNG by his neck till dead. 

If he really had a conscieous he would have resigned in protest or shot himself or joined up with the Alliance....not stayed on Omega knowing damned well what he was doing.

You do know that Cerberus cells are kept in dark from each other?

Miranda says that in ME2.
For example, Lazarus Cell had no idea about Overlord Cell nor vice versa.

It is a safe guard to keep secrecy much better and for all Cell leaders to report directly to Illusive Man.


And from Invasion comics, Oleg never find out that incident that caused Adjutants on Omega was staged by Illusive Man.

So no, he ain't fully aware about Cerberus methods. Nor were Jacob and Miranda until much later on.


And same for WW2 German generals.
Most didn't knew about Hitler's Final Solution until much later on.
When they still find out, they didn't start to give up to Allies or do suicides.
No, they continued to do their jobs while secretly plotting to assassinate Hitler and take down his loyalists.
And reason for that is because they knew that their entire country would suffer Hitler's actions were discovered to world.

And I'm sure Oleg would have do the something similar, if he discovered what Illusive Man is really doing.

so lets say Oleg is ignorant of everything cerberus is doing. he has a vast fleet and troops at his command. dude doesnt know anything about cerberus other than what he is being told. Intelligent (almost) as Miranda you say? that doesnt sound very smart. maybe he is in denial.

and those Generals that actual took a stand against Hitler...were executed or commited suicide.... and to say they didnt know? Generals......in the German Army....didnt know? ???  now that is a magic trick.

[Barquiel]

MisterJB wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

CrazyRah wrote...

I very much agree with Ieldra. I'll not buy the DLC until things like these are known. It will be so OOC for my Shepard to kill Petrovsky just because Aria want it. I'm getting rather tired of getting railroaded into things that's just not anything even remotly likely my Shepard would do

I doubt we kill him just because Aria wants it. It is more likely that we help her because millions of people starve to death, caused by Petrovsky's blockade.

Which is completely inconsistent with his character in "Invasion" thus failing victim to the same character assassination that targeted anyone and anything represented in ME2.

Well, indoctrination is the most likely explanation. It makes characters not acting like themselves

I am not the biggest fan of indoctrination as an major ongoing plot element either (I wanted to destroy cerberus because of their goals and methods, not because they are indoctrinated), but it wouldn't be a retcon...or character assassination. Omega is an important outpost in the Terminus systems, and Petrovsky was doubtful about the methods used by the Illusive Man before. Of course TIM would do anything to ensure Petrovsky's loyalty to his cause.

[corporal doody]

wright1978 wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

jtav wrote...

Character consistency would be nice, especially since this wasn't rushed out the door.

homeboy is starving civilians (mostly nonhumans) and slaughtering anyone who opposes their occupation of Omega...for the greater good. It hurts his feelings....but he is doing it for the betterment of mankind.

And how's that consistent with previous characterisation

From Petrovsky wiki
"Petrovsky expresses outrage that Ashe would endanger Cerberus's troops and the station's civilians, but Ashe argues that they are acceptable losses. They struggle briefly before Aria hurls the Adjutant into them. It infects Ashe before Aria finishes it off. As his subordinate transforms, Petrovsky kills him to protect his men. "

love of your troops outweights everything else. guess we will find out soon.

perhaps dude didnt know how bad the insurgency on Omega would be. Perhaps he has lost quite a few men. perhaps his atttitude towards the citizens of omega has changed his resolve.

and it is alittle strange to think he doesnt notice the troops he is getting are a little...HUSKIFIED

Modifié par corporal doody, 08 novembre 2012 - 01:41 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

jtav wrote...

Character consistency would be nice, especially since this wasn't rushed out the door.

But not as important as Bioware's ability to write a story where villains are villains.

[CroGamer002]

Lizardviking wrote...

Do you honestly expect anything else from Cerberus related plot-arcs, Mesina?

I am hoping Bioware taken notice on butchering Cerberus in ME3 and will hopefully not do that in Omega DLC.

[corporal doody]

Mesina2 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Do you honestly expect anything else from Cerberus related plot-arcs, Mesina?

I am hoping Bioware taken notice on butchering Cerberus in ME3 and will hopefully not do that in Omega DLC.

you are joking right? after ME2 you thought Cerberus was ambiguous? after all the bad stuff they did in ME1? sipping on the TIM kool-aid.

Modifié par corporal doody, 08 novembre 2012 - 01:42 .

[CroGamer002]

corporal doody wrote...

actually...they do mention the blockade during the vid. The dude playing and giving commentary says there is a fleet of Cerberus ships blockading Omega.

and Indoctrination happens....

Well, blockade is kinda obvious.

Omega is only recently counqered and it's full of criminals.

You kinda have to fix that problem to keep order.


But, what about Indocrination?

There's nothing on is Oleg indocrinated( he's currently only Cerberus memeber that has no Reaper implants) and there's no telling he would have start indocrinate his troops nor Omega's residents.

Human AND alien.

corporal doody wrote...

jtav wrote...

Character consistency would be nice, especially since this wasn't rushed out the door.

homeboy is starving civilians (mostly nonhumans) and slaughtering anyone who opposes their occupation of Omega...for the greater good. It hurts his feelings....but he is doing it for the betterment of mankind.

Source on starvation, please.

[Ieldra]

spirosz wrote...
You know what might be funny, before the release of ME3, there was a bunch of hype from what we saw and look how that turned out for a lot of us, what if, you do the opposite with Omega? It might surprise you, never knowwwwwwwwwwwwww.

And again, it might not. Past examples don't exactly inspire confidence. Bioware has a history of twisting characters and lore beyond recognition for the needs of a particular kind of story they want to write. I think characterization and lore should be allowed to constrain the kind of story you write, else they would be meaningless.

And btw, even if you do twist characters beyond recognition, you can at least attempt to do it in a somewhat elegant way instead of always using the biggest sledgehammer you can find. Granted, many fans aren't receptive to anything smaller than a sledgehammer, but I don't think story writers should be guided by the lowest common denominator.

[Xilizhra]

What if Petrovsky isn't even in power anymore? What if a new batch of Cerberus troops showed up to kick out Petrovsky's guard and ensure that only indoctrinated forces held Omega?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Mesina2 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Do you honestly expect anything else from Cerberus related plot-arcs, Mesina?

I am hoping Bioware taken notice on butchering Cerberus in ME3 and will hopefully not do that in Omega DLC.

I think Wrex would enjoy eating you.

And we all know what type of people Wrex enjoys.

But seriously. Lame jokes aside, I am sorry that you got your hopes up for this.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 08 novembre 2012 - 01:50 .

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

What if Petrovsky isn't even in power anymore? What if a new batch of Cerberus troops showed up to kick out Petrovsky's guard and ensure that only indoctrinated forces held Omega?

. Possible but unlikely

[corporal doody]

Mesina2 wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

actually...they do mention the blockade during the vid. The dude playing and giving commentary says there is a fleet of Cerberus ships blockading Omega.

and Indoctrination happens....

Well, blockade is kinda obvious.

Omega is only recently counqered and it's full of criminals.

You kinda have to fix that problem to keep order.


But, what about Indocrination?

There's nothing on is Oleg indocrinated( he's currently only Cerberus memeber that has no Reaper implants) and there's no telling he would have start indocrinate his troops nor Omega's residents.

Human AND alien.

corporal doody wrote...

jtav wrote...

Character consistency would be nice, especially since this wasn't rushed out the door.

homeboy is starving civilians (mostly nonhumans) and slaughtering anyone who opposes their occupation of Omega...for the greater good. It hurts his feelings....but he is doing it for the betterment of mankind.

Source on starvation, please.

well im sure they got food processing plants on Omega that Cerberus keeps well stocked and maintained. Cerberus is all about commitment to the people...even nonhumans. So im fairly certain CERBERUS on Omega has the wellbeing and wellfare of the people in mind.

[Ieldra]

Xilizhra wrote...
What if Petrovsky isn't even in power anymore? What if a new batch of Cerberus troops showed up to kick out Petrovsky's guard and ensure that only indoctrinated forces held Omega?

I wouldn't exactly like it, but at least that wouldn't derail Petrovsky.

[KingZayd]

corporal doody wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Do you honestly expect anything else from Cerberus related plot-arcs, Mesina?

I am hoping Bioware taken notice on butchering Cerberus in ME3 and will hopefully not do that in Omega DLC.

you are joking right? after ME2 you thought Cerberus was ambiguous? after all the bad stuff they did in ME1? sipping on the TIM kool-aid.

The  whole point of Cerberus was that they were a "ends justify the means" pro-Humanity organisation. Some of their intentions weren't that bad, although their methods were certainly repugnant.

[CroGamer002]

corporal doody wrote...

so lets say Oleg is ignorant of everything cerberus is doing. he has a vast fleet and troops at his command. dude doesnt know anything about cerberus other than what he is being told. Intelligent (almost) as Miranda you say? that doesnt sound very smart. maybe he is in denial.

and those Generals that actual took a stand against Hitler...were executed or commited suicide.... and to say they didnt know? Generals......in the German Army....didnt know? ???  now that is a magic trick.

You can have a strong military, but won't do jack with it if you have no intel.

Illusive Man could have easily keep him in dark and only broadcast station he would have is Cerberus Daily News( there's no reason that thing ain't real in universe too).

Plus, he is under orders to secure and hold Omega and guard Omega 4 Relay too, since Cerberus has research station where Collector base is or was.


And for German generals?
Yes, the were executed. When they were caught.
And those who weren't committed suicide cause they knew they'll be caught soon.

And did you ever heard of propaganda and censorship?
Yeah, that magic trick.

[corporal doody]

Mesina2 wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

so lets say Oleg is ignorant of everything cerberus is doing. he has a vast fleet and troops at his command. dude doesnt know anything about cerberus other than what he is being told. Intelligent (almost) as Miranda you say? that doesnt sound very smart. maybe he is in denial.

and those Generals that actual took a stand against Hitler...were executed or commited suicide.... and to say they didnt know? Generals......in the German Army....didnt know? ???  now that is a magic trick.

You can have a strong military, but won't do jack with it if you have no intel.

Illusive Man could have easily keep him in dark and only broadcast station he would have is Cerberus Daily News( there's no reason that thing ain't real in universe too).

Plus, he is under orders to secure and hold Omega and guard Omega 4 Relay too, since Cerberus has research station where Collector base is or was.


And for German generals?
Yes, the were executed. When they were caught.
And those who weren't committed suicide cause they knew they'll be caught soon.

And did you ever heard of propaganda and censorship?
Yeah, that magic trick.

so from what you are saying...dude is probably INDOCTRINATED!   and TIM...well...DUDE WAS INDOCTRINATED for a long long time...he didnt know it.

and that last part.....you are seriously fooling yourself if you think an individual that is in the s*** doesnt seriously think about everything that is going on and become disillusioned at some point. AND A GENERAL......that is ignorant......yeah.....nah man. you gotta be pretty stupid to not be able to see through propagnda....no matter how hard it is shoved down your throat

Modifié par corporal doody, 08 novembre 2012 - 02:00 .

[CroGamer002]

corporal doody wrote...

you are joking right? after ME2 you thought Cerberus was ambiguous? after all the bad stuff they did in ME1? sipping on the TIM kool-aid.

I am not denying that most of Cerberus and Illusive Man are just bad.
Though, that is due to Bioware's poor writing skills on villains.

But, they are still many people in Cerberus that are like Miranda, Jacob and Oleg.
Hell, in ME3 those ex-Cerberus scientists defect after they find out about Illusive Man's true intentions.
And they didn't discovered that easily nor fast.

Same thing with ex-Cerberus troops from Phoenix Project.


Though unlike this people, Oleg is a high ranking commanding officer.

Even if he for whole time knew about Illusive Man's plans, he would need find the way to expose Illusive Man to his troops and get them loyal to him only.
And he would need to be careful to who to trust that defection from Illusive Man.
Cause his lieutenants could be more loyal to Illusive Man then him and would need hard evidence to believe him on this.

Otherwise, Illusive Man would have just simply get rid of him and told his troops he was a traitor.

[corporal doody]

Mesina2 wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

you are joking right? after ME2 you thought Cerberus was ambiguous? after all the bad stuff they did in ME1? sipping on the TIM kool-aid.

I am not denying that most of Cerberus and Illusive Man are just bad.
Though, that is due to Bioware's poor writing skills on villains.

But, they are still many people in Cerberus that are like Miranda, Jacob and Oleg.
Hell, in ME3 those ex-Cerberus scientists defect after they find out about Illusive Man's true intentions.
And they didn't discovered that easily nor fast.

Same thing with ex-Cerberus troops from Phoenix Project.


Though unlike this people, Oleg is a high ranking commanding officer.

Even if he for whole time knew about Illusive Man's plans, he would need find the way to expose Illusive Man to his troops and get them loyal to him only.
And he would need to be careful to who to trust that defection from Illusive Man.
Cause his lieutenants could be more loyal to Illusive Man then him and would need hard evidence to believe him on this.

Otherwise, Illusive Man would have just simply get rid of him and told his troops he was a traitor.

So the alternate is him to do nothing? I dunno man...that doesnt sound like an intelligent commander that cares for the wellfare of his people.

the way you keep describing him makes him sound extremely ignorant. and ignorance is not an excuse.

Modifié par corporal doody, 08 novembre 2012 - 02:13 .

[CroGamer002]

corporal doody wrote...

well im sure they got food processing plants on Omega that Cerberus keeps well stocked and maintained. Cerberus is all about commitment to the people...even nonhumans. So im fairly certain CERBERUS on Omega has the wellbeing and wellfare of the people in mind.

Cerberus needs to supply their own troops.

And they are supplied by human colonies that they either conquered from Systems Alliance, colonies that support them due to their actions against Collectors, secret Cerberus members inside Systems Alliance and corporations that they use as their fronts.


So yeah, they can supply Omega.

corporal doody wrote...

so from what you are saying...dude is probably INDOCTRINATED! and TIM...well...DUDE WAS INDOCTRINATED for a long long time...he didnt know it.

and that last part.....you are seriously fooling yourself if you think an individual that is in the s*** doesnt seriously think about everything that is going on and become disillusioned at some point. AND A GENERAL......that is ignorant......yeah.....nah man. you gotta be pretty stupid to not be able to see through propagnda....no matter how hard it is shoved down your throat

There is a difference between Reaper indoctrination and being kept in the dark and fooled by propaganda.

And you obviously don't know how propaganda works.


Also, Oleg is not in frontlines and he most certainly never left Omega once he conquered it.
He is very isolated from what's really going on in galaxy.

And like I said previously.
One Cerberus Cell doesn't know what other Cerberus Cell does nor it's existence.
Oleg only reports to Illusive Man and we already know he's a lair and manipulator.

[CroGamer002]

corporal doody wrote...

So the alternate is him to do nothing? I dunno man...that doesnt sound like an intelligent commander that cares for the wellfare of his people.

the way you keep describing him makes him sound extremely ignorant. and ignorance is not an excuse.

Dude, if he just went to go with defection around short time he discovering what's Illusive Man is doing, he would just be taken down from command by lieutenants.

He would then be either implanted by Reaper Implants or just executed.
And then there would be nobody left to protect his troops nor civilians.

In other words, he would just miserably fail if he doesn't take necessary precautions for successful defection from Illusive Man.

[corporal doody]

Mesina2 wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

So the alternate is him to do nothing? I dunno man...that doesnt sound like an intelligent commander that cares for the wellfare of his people.

the way you keep describing him makes him sound extremely ignorant. and ignorance is not an excuse.

Dude, if he just went to go with defection around short time he discovering what's Illusive Man is doing, he would just be taken down from command by lieutenants.

He would then be either implanted by Reaper Implants or just executed.
And then there would be nobody left to protect his troops nor civilians.

In other words, he would just miserably fail if he doesn't take necessary precautions for successful defection from Illusive Man.

so he cares for his men....but they are already under the sway of an indoctrinated TIM.....that doesnt say loyalty to me (his troops i mean). If he is as great a commander as he is reported to be...he would be loved by his men ..they would follow him to the ends of the universe....regardless of what his men were told by to do byTIM.

if they were indoctrinated and rebeled against Oleg...and he didnt KNOW there was something going on before hand...then he really didnt know his troops at all. HE WAS IGNORANT.

That doesnt scream command presence to me.




you are trying to say that by Oleg being super evil..it is OOC....but you keep saying he isnt very smart. the way you are presenting him is kinda....lame tbh.




im betting on indoctrination or disillusionment....dude went to Omega to do a dirty job...but wanted to use the best intentions while doing it. EVEN THOUGH HE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT CERBERUS WAS DOING HE BELIEVES IN THE CAUSE....to a point (maybe to include that stuff going on at Sanctuary....where his fresh troops are coming from...ALL HUSKIFIED and junk).....then THings didnt go right and due to the loss of his men...he cracked down...hard.

Modifié par corporal doody, 08 novembre 2012 - 02:40 .

[corporal doody]

Mesina2 wrote...


There is a difference between Reaper indoctrination and being kept in the dark and fooled by propaganda.

And you obviously don't know how propaganda works.


Also, Oleg is not in frontlines and he most certainly never left Omega once he conquered it.
He is very isolated from what's really going on in galaxy.

And like I said previously.
One Cerberus Cell doesn't know what other Cerberus Cell does nor it's existence.
Oleg only reports to Illusive Man and we already know he's a lair and manipulator.

wow. i have no come back for this. this is awesome