77 réponses à ce sujet

[Installation17]

I want skills for all three classes that enable "lockpicking". I understand that limiting it to rouges means that you need a diverse party, but in the DA:O Magi origin you melt a lock with the fire rod, so why can't mages and warriors try to break the lock at the risk of destroying something within. Just a thought.

[Realmzmaster]

You mean like the possibility of breaking a quest item?

[Direwolf0294]

Being forced to bring a character based on their class is one of the worst designs of Dragon Age. I agree, warriors should be able to bash locks open and mages should be able to magic them open.

[thats1evildude]

I think the easiest solution here is to simply trap all locked chests. Warriors and mages can still open locked chests, but they end up setting off a trap. The penalty for setting off a trap is to suffer one injury.

Otherwise, if anyone can open a locked chest, why even bother having them?

Modifié par thats1evildude, 07 novembre 2012 - 10:03 .

[Direwolf0294]

thats1evildude wrote...

I think the easiest solution here is to simply trap all locked chests. Warriors and mages can still open locked chests, but they end up setting off a trap. The penalty for setting off a trap is to suffer one injury.

Otherwise, if anyone can open a locked chest, why even bother having them?

Because you'd still presumably have to level up an unlocking skill to a certain point, even for warriors and mages. You couldn't just take a level 1 warrior and bash open an expertly locked chest for example. 

[thats1evildude]

And what stat would that be? Strength for Warriors, Magic for Mages? You mean their primary stat that they should be building up anyway? Or should it be another non-essential stat that will hamper your character and force you to make the rogue your primary lock-picker?

It's a false obstacle. It's throwing a tennis ball through a hula hoop from two feet away. The only way to fail is to be blind, two years old or an idiot.

Either leave it the way it is, introduce the concept of trapped chests or simply do away with locked chests entirely.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 07 novembre 2012 - 10:15 .

[Warden661]

Oh my God.... This makes sense!

[DarkKnightHolmes]

No.Seriously, are we gonna keep taking everything special about the rogues just because some people can't be bothered to use different classes in their team?

[Todd23]

Realmzmaster wrote...

You mean like the possibility of breaking a quest item?

What quest item requires a rogue to get?

[Todd23]

thats1evildude wrote...

And what stat would that be? Strength for Warriors, Magic for Mages? You mean their primary stat that they should be building up anyway? Or should it be another non-essential stat that will hamper your character and force you to make the rogue your primary lock-picker?

It's a false obstacle. It's throwing a tennis ball through a hula hoop from two feet away. The only way to fail is to be blind, two years old or an idiot.

Either leave it the way it is, introduce the concept of trapped chests or simply do away with locked chests entirely.

Yes.  Let those stats determine the difficulty of locks they can get through and cunning determine their chance of not destroying what's inside.

[Todd23]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

No.Seriously, are we gonna keep taking everything special about the rogues just because some people can't be bothered to use different classes in their team?

Yes.  Often I romance a mage, am a mage, and my best friend is a mage.  I should be able to have my dream team without missing out on loot.

[Direwolf0294]

thats1evildude wrote...

And what stat would that be? Strength for Warriors, Magic for Mages? You mean their primary stat that they should be building up anyway?

It's a false obstacle. It's throwing a tennis ball through a hula hoop from two feet away.

Either leave it the way it is, introduce the concept of trapped chests or simply do away with locked chests entirely.

It could just be an optional skill like it was in DA:O. I'm not against removing locked chests entirely, but I think the idea of RPGs having locked chests is so ingrained in peoples minds that many would find it jarring if they were completely gone. At the very least, it makes sense from a lore perspective and may help the game feel a bit more immersive. If you've got a chest stuffed with valuables you're going to lock it after all.

If it is tied to strength or magic levels, it still serves as a way to gate rewards based on characters overall level. Gating content sounds like a bit of a poor move, put it can have it's benefits. For one, it can entice people back to explore areas they've already been through. You find a chest at level 5 that you can't open so you come back at level 10, open it and get a cool new sword or something.

Also, we have no idea how BioWare's planning to have stats and abilities work for DA3. Maybe they'll build the system so strength and magic aren't the must have stats for warriors and mages. That there will instead be other viable alternatives that offer their own benefits and giving the warrior or mage the ability to unlock chests is one of the benefits strength and magic have. Like putting points into willpower would increase the damage a mage's spells can deal a lot more than than putting points into magic can but unlike if you put points into magic you can't use your willpower to open chests.

[Realmzmaster]

I am saying that certain quest items should be in locked, booby trapped chests. BG and other Bioware games had those types of chests. In NWN if the PC did not have a rogue henchmen the only way into the chests was to bash it open and items would break especially if a trap was sprung.
Quest items could break! Quest items could be sold. Gamers had to make the choice to hang on to an item or decide to discard or sell it. Sometimes they sold a quest item and the quest could not be finished.

The way around that was to find the person who had the key to the chest. Traps were also more lethal. Traps are more of a joke now since they only at best render the character unconscious.

[Realmzmaster]

Todd23 wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

And what stat would that be? Strength for Warriors, Magic for Mages? You mean their primary stat that they should be building up anyway? Or should it be another non-essential stat that will hamper your character and force you to make the rogue your primary lock-picker?

It's a false obstacle. It's throwing a tennis ball through a hula hoop from two feet away. The only way to fail is to be blind, two years old or an idiot.

Either leave it the way it is, introduce the concept of trapped chests or simply do away with locked chests entirely.

Yes.  Let those stats determine the difficulty of locks they can get through and cunning determine their chance of not destroying what's inside.

If the charcter uses brute force to open a chest why should cunning be allowed to migate the damage done to the contents? If the mage's melt lock spell has only one power level how can the mage control the amount of force used? Since right now all mages spells are all or nothing.

[Fast Jimmy]

<sigh> How is it Quest for Glory, an RPG made by Sierra (of all people) figured out how to do skills, stats and showcasing multiple solutions for many classes over two decades ago, and games are still struggling with the most basic of mechanics? For Pete's sake...

[Maclimes]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

<sigh> How is it Quest for Glory, an RPG made by Sierra (of all people) figured out how to do skills, stats and showcasing multiple solutions for many classes over two decades ago, and games are still struggling with the most basic of mechanics? For Pete's sake...

Best game series of all time.

Also, had save imports. 

[Icinix]

I'm a fan of free build classes where the skillset is the same for everyone and you can mix and match as required - it takes a lot of effort to make sure players can't botch their builds but I prefer that.

..if you do have class specific abilities like lock picks - I think they need to be used to open up alternative options / paths / dialogue etc through the missions - if you have a rogue that is high in stealth and lock picking, there should be doors that lead to rooms that get to your path alternatively.

Really I think want I'm asking for here - is either total character freedom or real differences beyond a few extra gold coins for select builds.

[Bernhardtbr]

Todd23 wrote...

Yes.  Often I romance a mage, am a mage, and my best friend is a mage.  I should be able to have my dream team without missing out on loot.

Oh, so you want an already ridiculously overpowered party (and frankly, at least in Origins 3 mages´ party IS overpowered) to be even more lame? Afraid you won´t win the game without that loot? Please. It´s Obsessive Compulsive Looting Disorder.

Modifié par Bernhardtbr, 08 novembre 2012 - 12:48 .

[Swagger7]

What if there was an item that could open locked chests, with higher level versions opening tougher locks. You'd have to acquire this item (through looting, buying, or crafting) and each chest unlocked used up one item. Rogues could open the chest without using any items. Therefore, you have a system where anyone can open chests, but there's still a benefit to doing so with a rogue.

[Wifflebottom]

Give every class a lockpicking skill tree, bring back noncombat skills. Only characters with enough points in lockpicking can pick the lock regardless of class.

[Shadow Fox]

Wifflebottom wrote...

Give every class a lockpicking skill tree, bring back noncombat skills. Only characters with enough points in lockpicking can pick the lock regardless of class.

If a warrior or mage can do what a rogue does why would anyone use a rogue?

[StarcloudSWG]

Are you saying that a Rogue's *only* useful skill is being able to pick locks, and *that* is the only reason you bring a Rogue?

Because if so, then there is a serious problem with your view of game design.

Lockpicking is just a skill. It's a skill anyone can learn. You don't need to be a 'Rogue' in order to learn it. Perhaps Rogues can be better at it than other classes, but there is no reason that other classes can't do it. Or have their own methods of getting through locks.

Lockpicking is far from being the 'signature' skill of a Rogue.

[Realmzmaster]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

Are you saying that a Rogue's *only* useful skill is being able to pick locks, and *that* is the only reason you bring a Rogue?

Because if so, then there is a serious problem with your view of game design.

Lockpicking is just a skill. It's a skill anyone can learn. You don't need to be a 'Rogue' in order to learn it. Perhaps Rogues can be better at it than other classes, but there is no reason that other classes can't do it. Or have their own methods of getting through locks.

Lockpicking is far from being the 'signature' skill of a Rogue.

That my be true, but the main reason many of the gamers on this forum bring a rogue is for lockpicking and trapmaking/removal. By removing the need to have a rogue pick locks or set/remove traps they can then do without the rogue and still get all the loot.

The way many crpgs handled it was to require classes that wanted to pick skills out of a different class to pay a higher penalty in skill points because it was not their primary area of study. 

The problem I have is that mages can have a skill that mimics a rogue lockpicking ability (lock melt or whatever) but in no way can a rogue or warrior acquire a skill that can mimic a spell due to lore. The mage simply becomes more overpowered than it already is.