77 réponses à ce sujet

[KiwiQuiche]

Kinda like in Fallout when you can't blast in a locked wooden door even if you have a missal launcher and a Fat Man. SEEMS LEGIT.

I expect it's to encourage people to play as a different class in different playthroughs.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 08 novembre 2012 - 07:55 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Maclimes wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

<sigh> How is it Quest for Glory, an RPG made by Sierra (of all people) figured out how to do skills, stats and showcasing multiple solutions for many classes over two decades ago, and games are still struggling with the most basic of mechanics? For Pete's sake...

Best game series of all time.

Also, had save imports. 

Too true, too true...

Although there weren't any real choices to be made, it was mostly stat sheet carry overs. If I imported a Fighter who had points in magic, it assumed I had completed the tests at WIT, for example. So they really only carried over your skill points and then just made custom content for each class.

But yeah... that was one of the best game series of all time. I think the last one may have been the weakest, but they were all still really good.

[Bernhardtbr]

Realmzmaster wrote...

That my be true, but the main reason many of the gamers on this forum bring a rogue is for lockpicking and trapmaking/removal. By removing the need to have a rogue pick locks or set/remove traps they can then do without the rogue and still get all the loot.

The way many crpgs handled it was to require classes that wanted to pick skills out of a different class to pay a higher penalty in skill points because it was not their primary area of study. 

The problem I have is that mages can have a skill that mimics a rogue lockpicking ability (lock melt or whatever) but in no way can a rogue or warrior acquire a skill that can mimic a spell due to lore. The mage simply becomes more overpowered than it already is.

It´s tricky, because if you think about it mages SHOULD be overpowered since they command so much power. Every game tries to decrease its power to make other classes more interesting, but the fact still remains that one lightining should fry a guy, period. Things like leveling giving HP are abstractions. Think Saruman and Aragorn - if one met the other the result would be nasty. For Aragorn.

Same thing with locks - actually you SHOULD indeed require a mage to pick some locks because just like we have alarms and gadgets that can be programmed to destroy the cash if the cash drawer is violated... In a world like Thedas any valuable chest could have the possibility of having a glyph or something that would lead to harsh consequences if a chest is broken and that only a mage would be able to detect.

I´ll say again I´m not against other classes having the ability - but it should have risks that AREN´T random (or else people will simply reload) and the idea of making cunning important to not damage stuff is very good.

[Cyberarmy]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

<sigh> How is it Quest for Glory, an RPG made by Sierra (of all people) figured out how to do skills, stats and showcasing multiple solutions for many classes over two decades ago, and games are still struggling with the most basic of mechanics? For Pete's sake...

Im wtih you on this one but explain me something...

Who the hell is Pete?

[levannar]

To me, it would be enough if they eIther gave us a rogue companion from the start of the game, or didn't put locked chests in the levels before the first rogue companion is introduced. It was infuriating how both in DAO and DA2, you were either a rogue, or couldn't collect all the items from the first level.

[Liamv2]

As long as all the rouges are not ***** i am happy

[hawat333]

There is something to think about.
I mean I have an axe that can chop off a dragon's head but it can't open a wooden crate.
You could at least smash it to pieces with some of the rewards inside being destroyed while lockpicking gives you full benefit.
Like it was in KotOR (or KotOR 2, was it?)

[TsaiMeLemoni]

I am all for rogues being the only ones that have the lockpicking spell, or I would probably never have tried playing as one (and loved it). What I would like to see go away though, is the need to cycle to my rogue party member for every damned locked chest. If they're in my party, give my PC some magical buff that let's me just open the chest and be on my merry way. If there's a trap, then sure, make me have to switch to the rogue to disarm it, but even that still makes my eye twitch a bit.

[nightscrawl]

Installation17 wrote...

I want skills for all three classes that enable "lockpicking". I understand that limiting it to rouges means that you need a diverse party, but in the DA:O Magi origin you melt a lock with the fire rod, so why can't mages and warriors try to break the lock at the risk of destroying something within. Just a thought.

Realmzmaster wrote...

You mean like the possibility of breaking a quest item?

I agree, but I think it should be enough of a penalty to remove the experience bonus for not using a rogue to pick the lock.

The possibility for destroying a quest item is a no-go in my book. There is a HUGE potential to screw people over, particularly since they like having a large selection of followers to choose from.

Perhaps you didn't think there would be anything important in a chest (something other than standard loot), maybe you don't like any of your rogue followers, maybe you have yet to recruit a rogue, it might be that you need to bring certain people for a quest. There are all sorts of reasons a player might not have a rogue in the party, and enforcing a huge penalty such as breaking a quest item by brute forcing a lock open seems a tad unfair. I can also see this forcing a reload, perhaps back several hours, just to switch out the party.

[jsamlaw]

Are we forgetting this is a single player game? Who cares if rogues lose their "value" in a lockpicking sense. This isn't an MMO where rogue players will be excluded from parties because others do their job better.

I think it makes great sense to give warriors and mages a "lockpicking" type skill to increase the potential for party diversity. Players that enjoy stealth tactics or the other hallmarks of rogue combat will still play rogues on their main.

[Fast Jimmy]

Cyberarmy wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

<sigh> How is it Quest for Glory, an RPG made by Sierra (of all people) figured out how to do skills, stats and showcasing multiple solutions for many classes over two decades ago, and games are still struggling with the most basic of mechanics? For Pete's sake...

Im wtih you on this one but explain me something...

Who the hell is Pete?

Pete Rose, the three time World Series champ and all-time major league record holder for hits, games played, wins and at bats!


Or... you know... St. Peter, from the Christian faith. You can't take God's name in vain (like saying "God d@mn!t" or Jesus t!tty f*ck!ng Christ) but you can take an apostle's, apparently. That's where the phrase comes from.



Seriously though, I'm not against having the option to bash open chests at the risk of a trap being activated and injuring the player. Also, giving mages the ability to use their magic AT ALL outside of combat would be welcome. I hate that a mage has the ability to rain down absolute destruction and inferno in a battle, but can't apply the tinest bit of magical force to cause a door to unlock, or to sense where explosive traps may be. 

[Maclimes]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

<sigh> How is it Quest for Glory, an RPG made by Sierra (of all people) figured out how to do skills, stats and showcasing multiple solutions for many classes over two decades ago, and games are still struggling with the most basic of mechanics? For Pete's sake...

Best game series of all time.

But yeah... that was one of the best game series of all time. I think the last one may have been the weakest, but they were all still really good.

Agreed. And as you say, one of the things I miss most from that series was the "multiple solutions" angle to solving problems. (Also see: Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis).

[esper]

I do not see the logic behind the content of the treasure test being destroyed if you aim the lock of the chest and not the chest itself with sword magic. I also don't see why rouge should be the one class with any out of combat use. Unless the warrior is so stupid as to stab though it instead of just carefully bash the other shell/lock I don't see why the destruction are necessary.

Rouge give massive single damage and are medium sturdy also as of da2 they have acces to ranged weapoms, as oppossed to warriors who tanks, and give medium area damage, and mages who gives massive area damge, but is fragile. The massive single damage, with a somewhat okay survival rate is the rouge purpose. Why they alone should be able to open stuff is beyound me and seems like an old rpg cliche, just like mages must wear robes.

[MichaelStuart]

I would like lock-picking to be a mini game

[Zeta42]

In Harry Potter, 11 years old kids can pick locks with magic. It's just stupid that mages in DA don't have a spell for that. I totally want lockpicks for warriors and Alohomora for mages. It's unfair that you may miss a lot of XP because you don't happen to have a rogue in the party.

[Realmzmaster]

esper wrote...

I do not see the logic behind the content of the treasure test being destroyed if you aim the lock of the chest and not the chest itself with sword magic. I also don't see why rouge should be the one class with any out of combat use. Unless the warrior is so stupid as to stab though it instead of just carefully bash the other shell/lock I don't see why the destruction are necessary.

Rouge give massive single damage and are medium sturdy also as of da2 they have acces to ranged weapoms, as oppossed to warriors who tanks, and give medium area damage, and mages who gives massive area damge, but is fragile. The massive single damage, with a somewhat okay survival rate is the rouge purpose. Why they alone should be able to open stuff is beyound me and seems like an old rpg cliche, just like mages must wear robes.

The reason for the chest items being destroyed depends on the contents. If the chest has the possibility of glass items or items in glass vials then the possibility of breakage should exist. For example the Tears of Andraste are contained in a locked chest with an acid trap. Acid is contain in a glass vial and so are the tears. If a warrior bashes the chests' lock then there is the possibility of destroying the tears and breaking the acid vial. If magic is used to melt the lock or open it then the acid trap should activate harming anyone in the vicinity. Replace the acid trap with a trap like poison gas or poison needle.

Let's suppose the chest contains armor then the armor gets destroyed by the acid.

Bioware has used this possibility in games before like NWN. If a warrior bashed open a chest without knowing its contents there was a possibilty of destroying the contents. 

NWN also had a check and balance for the spellcaster. If the chest was enchanted by a wizard of higher rank then the possibility of opening the chest was dependent on the difference between the levels. A first level wizard could not open a chest sealed by a tenth level wizard.

Also some chest have the locks built into the chest not a separate lock. So bashing or pointing magic at the lock meant bashing or subjecting the chest to magic..

[Realmzmaster]

Zeta42 wrote...

In Harry Potter, 11 years old kids can pick locks with magic. It's just stupid that mages in DA don't have a spell for that. I totally want lockpicks for warriors and Alohomora for mages. It's unfair that you may miss a lot of XP because you don't happen to have a rogue in the party.

I propose that DA should have trapped chests both physical and magical. Wizards will be able to open the chest using a spell and disarm magical traps, but not physical traps like poison gas, poison needle etc.

I also propose that Bioware allow for scrolls that can be read by warriors and rogues who have the read magic ability to give them access to spells which would consume stamina.

[Fast Jimmy]

Realmzmaster wrote...

esper wrote...

I do not see the logic behind the content of the treasure test being destroyed if you aim the lock of the chest and not the chest itself with sword magic. I also don't see why rouge should be the one class with any out of combat use. Unless the warrior is so stupid as to stab though it instead of just carefully bash the other shell/lock I don't see why the destruction are necessary.

Rouge give massive single damage and are medium sturdy also as of da2 they have acces to ranged weapoms, as oppossed to warriors who tanks, and give medium area damage, and mages who gives massive area damge, but is fragile. The massive single damage, with a somewhat okay survival rate is the rouge purpose. Why they alone should be able to open stuff is beyound me and seems like an old rpg cliche, just like mages must wear robes.

The reason for the chest items being destroyed depends on the contents. If the chest has the possibility of glass items or items in glass vials then the possibility of breakage should exist. For example the Tears of Andraste are contained in a locked chest with an acid trap. Acid is contain in a glass vial and so are the tears. If a warrior bashes the chests' lock then there is the possibility of destroying the tears and breaking the acid vial. If magic is used to melt the lock or open it then the acid trap should activate harming anyone in the vicinity. Replace the acid trap with a trap like poison gas or poison needle.

Let's suppose the chest contains armor then the armor gets destroyed by the acid.

Bioware has used this possibility in games before like NWN. If a warrior bashed open a chest without knowing its contents there was a possibilty of destroying the contents. 

NWN also had a check and balance for the spellcaster. If the chest was enchanted by a wizard of higher rank then the possibility of opening the chest was dependent on the difference between the levels. A first level wizard could not open a chest sealed by a tenth level wizard.

Also some chest have the locks built into the chest not a separate lock. So bashing or pointing magic at the lock meant bashing or subjecting the chest to magic..

It really is depressing to me how games in the past had such advanced systems for dealing with solutions, but these days the "combat/action-only" approach to game design has let all of these types of ideas completely slip into obscurity. NWN, Baldur's Gate, Ultima, Quest for Glory... all of these series took pretty novel approaches to allowing freedom (and consequence for said freedom) into the gameplay itself. 

Now when a game has a "cutscene/action fight/cutscene/action fight/dialogue choice!" it is considered the pinacle of RPG game design. 

[Sarquindi]

Every team is likely to have a mage or a rogue in it, so even giving mages an unlock spell would be helpful.

[mopotter]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Being forced to bring a character based on their class is one of the worst designs of Dragon Age. I agree, warriors should be able to bash locks open and mages should be able to magic them open.

I also agree with this.  My mage can kill a dragon with fire but can't figure out a spell to open a lock.  One of the first mods I download when I'm playing on the pc.  bash and cast open.  Sometimes things are broken when I bash a chest but that's acceptable.

[DaringMoosejaw]

There has been many a time in many a game where I wish I could just bash/shoot a door open because my lockpicking wasn't high enough.

[Realmzmaster]

Fast Jimmy wrote...



It really is depressing to me how games in the past had such advanced systems for dealing with solutions, but these days the "combat/action-only" approach to game design has let all of these types of ideas completely slip into obscurity. NWN, Baldur's Gate, Ultima, Quest for Glory... all of these series took pretty novel approaches to allowing freedom (and consequence for said freedom) into the gameplay itself. 

Now when a game has a "cutscene/action fight/cutscene/action fight/dialogue choice!" it is considered the pinacle of RPG game design. 

So true, but we have to remember Fast Jimmy those were the days of death actually being meaningful, traps being lethal, and  non regenerating health and mana. There were also magic systems where the spellcaster could control the power put into a spell like in Wizardry. Now alot of what we have is pretenders to the throne.

[Wulfram]

Lockpicking is not interesting and never has been.

It could work as part of a more stealth based game, in which it offers a way to get past an obstacle quietly. In a party based game, it's just a bad way to make people take rogues in their party.