156 réponses à ce sujet

[Versus Omnibus]

Before people start shouting, no this isn't another "Bioware never listens" topic (they do listen AND act on requests.) Mostly this topic deals with Chris and his usual reponses to the accusations: "Yes, we are listening."

What really gets me going every time I see responses such as this in any forums is not that it's a lie (Nyreen proves Bioware listens and acts on fan requests); but that Bioware, at least the SP team, rarely if never comment on popular topics and just let the expectations run wild. Like everyone, for whatever reason, expected Nyreen to some how become a new squad member and I have yet to find Bioware saying anywhere this just wasn't going to happen. So what I'm basically saying is while Bioware does listen, their silence on matters are what really tick me off.

I'm not asking for full fledged explainations, just responses such as "We don't plan on adding more squadmates" or "I'm sorry, but the coding in the game just doesn't give us the chance to do that."

I'm pretty sure most the rage would be avoided if Bioware was a little more engaged towards suggestions.

[Legbiter]

I'd suggest you get over yourself.

[Versus Omnibus]

Legbiter wrote...

I'd suggest you get over yourself.

I'd suggest you post something of importance.

[Savber100]

I do wish that Casey and Mac will engage us like Laidlaw and Gaider does in the DA forum.

It was because of the interaction with the DA team that made me view the DA team and DA3 in a more positive light than the current Mass Effect franchise/team. 

Modifié par Savber100, 08 novembre 2012 - 01:30 .

[Luigitornado]

Can you really blame them for not wanting to comment on anything?

You saw the reaction from the ending.

Fans want to be all buddy, buddy, and want Bioware to be more transparent, but then they start mailing them death threats and threaten Bioware with lawsuits over ME3's ending.

[WazzuMan]

What would you have them do? Spend hours a day answering questions about every detail of the game they are working on? If all they have to say is "no, we are not doing this" or "we can't say much at this point", then why waste your time on a forum when you could be working on something you can eventually talk about. It's not like they are actively ignoring on purpose, they just have nothing to say.

[Versus Omnibus]

@Luigitornado: People were upset about the endings because it was far from what they wanted. I know the ME team is afraid of any hostile fans left in the forums, but I do want them more engaged with the fans due to accusations that they just don't care anymore.

@WazzuMan: But here's the thing, they do have something to say. They know things such as Aria staying on Omega weeks before anything can be shown but they choose to stay silent until much later. As Savber said, the DA3 team are just beginning to work on their next project but they still find time to engage with the fans. Why can't the ME3 team?

[KieranW]

I have to agree with WazzuMan here.

While I can understand your sentiment here, OP, I can also see why they don't chip in all the time. Plus, you'll probably get people complaining that they won't let them 'speculate'. It's Sod's law

[FlamingBoy]

Luigitornado wrote...

Can you really blame them for not wanting to comment on anything?

You saw the reaction from the ending.

Fans want to be all buddy, buddy, and want Bioware to be more transparent, but then they start mailing them death threats and threaten Bioware with lawsuits over ME3's ending.

But I think the difference is that the me3 team doesn't have the moral highground they been dishonest before they will probably be dishonest again

Also false advertising is just cause for lawsuits, as for death threats I think they have been exaggerated by the PR machine

[High Five Revival]

Luigitornado wrote...

Can you really blame them for not wanting to comment on anything?

You saw the reaction from the ending.

Fans want to be all buddy, buddy, and want Bioware to be more transparent, but then they start mailing them death threats and threaten Bioware with lawsuits over ME3's ending.

I don't blame them at all.    I see the intent of the original poster wanting the staff to be more responsive to customer thoughts and dissatisfaction, but I think there is a fine line with transparency and responding to constant complaints.    We are continuing to get excellent DLC and in response to concerns, they gave us the Extended Cut.   I really do believe they listen and respond - but they do so with actions, rather than words.    Would it be nice if developers and staff talked with us?    Sure would be - but if they don't, I'm sure it's because they're busy with some stellar DLC content or the next awesome entry in the Mass Effect series.

[Kanaris]

The extended cut added a few scenes and dialogue it did nothing to really quell the hate the ending or their claims of creative integrity generated

[Ninja Stan]

BioWare allows for all kinds of speculation because otherwise they would be confirming or denying all kinds of things all the time. Once the community sees that a developer has officially confirmed or denied one thing, they have the expectation that it's open season for everyone to ask about their own pet feature/idea/suggestion and get an official response.

The sheer number of individual "Is X going to be in the next game?" or "Is the next game going to feature Y?" questions would bury the devs.

So, devs are very selective in what they answer and how they answer. Even then, as evidenced in the DA3 forum, people will pick apart the dev's response, and unless it specifically mentions something as being in or not being in, fans will continue to speculate and freak out. "OMG, they said elves would be in but said nothing about dwarves! Why aren't dwarves in the game, BioWare? Why do you hate dwarves? See, everyone, BioWare discriminates against short people!" I exaggerate for comedic effect, but David Gaider has commented on that sort of thing recently on the DA3 forum.

The community must learn to be patient, for one thing, and to ask better questions for another. Then they need to be able to accept the answers given without freaking out or acting like the responses are a personal affront to one's play style or preferences. They are developing a videogame, not necessarily your videogame. Once all of that happens, you can expect devs to be less hesitant about discussing things with the community.

[LinksOcarina]

Plus, usually they can't comment either due to contractual obligations.

So honestly, I see no reason for the anger other than impatient people looking foolish by venting anger anonymously..

[Fawx9]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel the OP does have a point, expecially when it comes to known DLC releases.

You can't tell me Bioware didn't hear the rumblings of a new hub, or new squad mates (Aria, or the Turian). Would it have been so hard to come out earlier and go " look I know some of you want new squad mates, but that just isn't in the cards" .

Instead it boils, and then on days like this we end up with expectations dashed and people let down (be that their fault or not I'm not going to get into).

Sure it would be unreasonable for them to answer every little question, but I think that level of detail wouldn't hurt to be put out a bit earlier.

[LinksOcarina]

Fawx9 wrote...

Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel the OP does have a point, expecially when it comes to known DLC releases.

You can't tell me Bioware didn't hear the rumblings of a new hub, or new squad mates (Aria, or the Turian). Would it have been so hard to come out earlier and go " look I know some of you want new squad mates, but that just isn't in the cards" .

Instead it boils, and then on days like this we end up with expectations dashed and people let down (be that their fault or not I'm not going to get into).

Sure it would be unreasonable for them to answer every little question, but I think that level of detail wouldn't hurt to be put out a bit earlier.

It's funny, because if they give away so many details, people complain. If they give away too little, people complain.

In the end, it will be cynical people thinking they know what is best. Hell, From Ashes is an example of this because a ton of people knew there was a new squadmate coming out before the game released for over a year, but the minute they showed it was a Prothean it was nothing but a ****-storm of people complaining it was a Prothean, and complaining he was cut from the game because of a leaked script. 

So if we knew a year out that it was a Prothean, do you think it would have changed things at all? It would have been the same reaction regardless of what happens because that is how people think. It is why i'm terrified with Dragon Age III and the fan response at the moment because already there are rumblings and grumblings of people not seeing anything new yet, and the trickle down of stuff we do get they analyze and/or object to. 

So honestly, it amazes me that BioWare still tries to do right by their fans by giving them things they want, even if its only for a DLC, and the fans can't compromise one iota on the terms of that DLC, and think they are screwing them on purpose. 

[Kanaris]

I Personally think it's better to not give out ANY information about a new game and/or DLC till the month of release. This was what happened with ME3 the fans were told things about the game far in advance of the games release and when it finally was what people got was not what they were told they were getting and it understandably pissed many people off.

Modifié par Kanaris, 08 novembre 2012 - 02:41 .

[jakal66]

Plus if they talk too much..then no one will buy the dlc...ask gamble hahahaha!

Dude says no new crewmate, no noew hub, a couple of weeks before the launch...and all hell breaks lose...

At least those people who were not conviced now have more info...if they kept that a secret till launch could you imagine the boards exploding with hate posts.

In my opinion they don't even listen.They do what thinks will sell,what can be done fast, without too much resource put into...recycling guns...powers.For 15 euros in my case it doesn't look too promising.But I'll buy it, play it and then judge it...

[LinksOcarina]

Kanaris wrote...

I Personally think it's better to not give out ANY information about a new game and/or DLC till the month of release. This was what happened with ME3 the fans were told things about the game far in advance of the games release and when it finally was what people got was not what they were told they were getting and it understandably pissed many people off.

how so?

Considering all DLC thus far, it has been pretty clear-cut and the fans did get what they were told. 

[Ninja Stan]

Fawx9 wrote...

Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel the OP does have a point, expecially when it comes to known DLC releases.

You can't tell me Bioware didn't hear the rumblings of a new hub, or new squad mates (Aria, or the Turian). Would it have been so hard to come out earlier and go " look I know some of you want new squad mates, but that just isn't in the cards" .

Instead it boils, and then on days like this we end up with expectations dashed and people let down (be that their fault or not I'm not going to get into).

Sure it would be unreasonable for them to answer every little question, but I think that level of detail wouldn't hurt to be put out a bit earlier.

So... if they have no information to share, they have to come right out and say they have no information to share? Wouldn't it be easier for all the people clamouring for information to assume they have nothing to share until and unless they share something? This is precisely the kind of dozens of individuals asking the same question I was referring to earlier. Even if they did say what you want them to say, there will be people who don't see it and will continue to ask, leading to exactly the same level of frustration until they come out again and say it. Then, a few weks later, they will say the same thing again.

The alternative is that people accept that BioWare can't always answer every question all the time, and sometimes can't/won't answer any questions, and be patient. Would it have been so hard to accept that BioWare didn't/won't necessarily answer the questions you want them to, in the manner you want them to? should it be their responsibility to find out how to not answer questions in such a way as to satisfy thousands of different individuals?

[Fawx9]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel the OP does have a point, expecially when it comes to known DLC releases.

You can't tell me Bioware didn't hear the rumblings of a new hub, or new squad mates (Aria, or the Turian). Would it have been so hard to come out earlier and go " look I know some of you want new squad mates, but that just isn't in the cards" .

Instead it boils, and then on days like this we end up with expectations dashed and people let down (be that their fault or not I'm not going to get into).

Sure it would be unreasonable for them to answer every little question, but I think that level of detail wouldn't hurt to be put out a bit earlier.

It's funny, because if they give away so many details, people complain. If they give away too little, people complain.

In the end, it will be cynical people thinking they know what is best. Hell, From Ashes is an example of this because a ton of people knew there was a new squadmate coming out before the game released for over a year, but the minute they showed it was a Prothean it was nothing but a ****-storm of people complaining it was a Prothean, and complaining he was cut from the game because of a leaked script. 

So if we knew a year out that it was a Prothean, do you think it would have changed things at all? It would have been the same reaction regardless of what happens because that is how people think. It is why i'm terrified with Dragon Age III and the fan response at the moment because already there are rumblings and grumblings of people not seeing anything new yet, and the trickle down of stuff we do get they analyze and/or object to. 

So honestly, it amazes me that BioWare still tries to do right by their fans by giving them things they want, even if its only for a DLC, and the fans can't compromise one iota on the terms of that DLC, and think they are screwing them on purpose. 

Honestly I think its differen't.

In Javik's case you had the whole day1 DLC controversy where his character was in game, just his level wasn't. You could unlock him through the game editor which added fuel to the fire.

In this case, expecations were left to grow unchecked where groups of people began to think and expressing that we had a shot at getting a new permanent hub world/character out of this, mostly technical things. Saying that you aren't getting that is not the same as revelaing huge story plots like saying you can have a prothean squadmate. It's also known a lot earlier than 1 month from release of the DLC.

So... if they have no information to share, they have to come right
out and say they have no information to share? Wouldn't it be easier for
all the people clamouring for information to assume they have nothing
to share until and unless they share something? This is precisely the
kind of dozens of individuals asking the same question I was referring
to earlier. Even if they did say what you want them to say, there will
be people who don't see it and will continue to ask, leading to exactly
the same level of frustration until they come out again and say it.
Then, a few weks later, they will say the same thing again.

The
alternative is that people accept that BioWare can't always answer every
question all the time, and sometimes can't/won't answer any questions,
and be patient. Would it have been so hard to accept that BioWare
didn't/won't necessarily answer the questions you want them to, in the
manner you want them to? should it be their responsibility to find out
how to not answer questions in such a way as to satisfy thousands of
different individuals?

That's not really what I was getting at, I think .

What I was trying to say is that things like new squadmates/ new permanent hubs are things that I believe(guessing) are normally known to developers at a certain point in the development cycle of a DLC. And therefore they know when it wont happen.

If they then start to see that there is a whole bunch of people bascially reassuring themselves and others that they are getting a non existent feature, wouldn't it be better to come in and say "That would be a cool idea, but it just isn't in the cards for this"?

They recoginze certain features players want, while also curtailing the wanton speculation that can at times set skewed expectations.

Modifié par Fawx9, 08 novembre 2012 - 02:51 .

[Kanaris]

When ME3 was not released we were told SP and MP would be separate from each other which they are not you HAVE to play MP to raise your galactic readiness there is no way to raise it in SP this is one example of a case of we were told one thing and got another

[Ninja Stan]

LinksOcarina wrote...

It's funny, because if they give away so many details, people complain. If they give away too little, people complain.

In the end, it will be cynical people thinking they know what is best. Hell, From Ashes is an example of this because a ton of people knew there was a new squadmate coming out before the game released for over a year, but the minute they showed it was a Prothean it was nothing but a ****-storm of people complaining it was a Prothean, and complaining he was cut from the game because of a leaked script. 

So if we knew a year out that it was a Prothean, do you think it would have changed things at all? It would have been the same reaction regardless of what happens because that is how people think. It is why i'm terrified with Dragon Age III and the fan response at the moment because already there are rumblings and grumblings of people not seeing anything new yet, and the trickle down of stuff we do get they analyze and/or object to. 

So honestly, it amazes me that BioWare still tries to do right by their fans by giving them things they want, even if its only for a DLC, and the fans can't compromise one iota on the terms of that DLC, and think they are screwing them on purpose. 

You have some good points, LinksOcarina. Plus, a year out, things can be very different than the final game as features or details get added, removed, or are changed. Just because something is in a script does not necessarily mean it will definitely be in the final game. A leaked script is not a contractual obligation to include everything in it. Just look at motion pictures or television, where scripts are changed, sometimes daily, in response to changing conditions, the director/producer changing their mind, or new ideas.

So far the DA3 forum is civil, because the DA3 team has been very explicit in how it's going to convey official information. They are adopting a show, don't tell policy that will hopefully get people super excited once BioWare has something to show. In the meantime, they are exploring many different concepts and ideas with fans, which has been happening with every new project since NWN. The fans just need to keep their expectations reasonable, and the discourse respectful and productive.

[LinksOcarina]

Fawx9 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel the OP does have a point, expecially when it comes to known DLC releases.

You can't tell me Bioware didn't hear the rumblings of a new hub, or new squad mates (Aria, or the Turian). Would it have been so hard to come out earlier and go " look I know some of you want new squad mates, but that just isn't in the cards" .

Instead it boils, and then on days like this we end up with expectations dashed and people let down (be that their fault or not I'm not going to get into).

Sure it would be unreasonable for them to answer every little question, but I think that level of detail wouldn't hurt to be put out a bit earlier.

It's funny, because if they give away so many details, people complain. If they give away too little, people complain.

In the end, it will be cynical people thinking they know what is best. Hell, From Ashes is an example of this because a ton of people knew there was a new squadmate coming out before the game released for over a year, but the minute they showed it was a Prothean it was nothing but a ****-storm of people complaining it was a Prothean, and complaining he was cut from the game because of a leaked script. 

So if we knew a year out that it was a Prothean, do you think it would have changed things at all? It would have been the same reaction regardless of what happens because that is how people think. It is why i'm terrified with Dragon Age III and the fan response at the moment because already there are rumblings and grumblings of people not seeing anything new yet, and the trickle down of stuff we do get they analyze and/or object to. 

So honestly, it amazes me that BioWare still tries to do right by their fans by giving them things they want, even if its only for a DLC, and the fans can't compromise one iota on the terms of that DLC, and think they are screwing them on purpose. 

Honestly I think its differen't.

In Javik's case you had the whole day1 DLC controversy where his character was in game, just his level wasn't. You could unlock him through the game editor which added fuel to the fire.

In this case, expecations were left to grow unchecked where groups of people began to think and expressing that we had a shot at getting a new permanent hub world/character out of this, mostly technical things. Saying that you aren't getting that is not the same as revelaing huge story plots like saying you can have a prothean squadmate. It's also known a lot earlier than 1 month from release of the DLC.

And yet, the reaction is the same regardless of what happens. Even with Javik, if you can unlock a shell of a character for missions to use in your game, its still not complete and it is still not a character cut from the game on purpose. As for this case, the expectations were there because the fans thought they were there; like how a lot of fans expect the ending to be changed again somehow when it was stated that it wouldn't be. 

Even if BioWare came out and said three months ago no DLC will add permanent squadmates or a hub, then with this announcement of what we learned today it would be the same exact discussion. There is no way to get around that. 

[Ninja Stan]

Fawx9 wrote...

That's not really what I was getting at, I think .

What I was trying to say is that things like new squadmates/ new permanent hubs are things that I believe(guessing) are normally known to developers at a certain point in the development cycle of a DLC. And therefore they know when it wont happen.

If they then start to see that there is a whole bunch of people bascially reassuring themselves and others that they are getting a non existent feature, wouldn't it be better to come in and say "That would be a cool idea, but it just isn't in the cards for this"?

They recoginze certain features players want, while also curtailing the wanton speculation that can at times set skewed expectations.

Okay, I get you. Here is where we enter a grey area where I don't have any information or past experience to go by. I don't know the best way to handle this type of situation. On the one hand, yes, it would be better for the fanbase to know that certain beloved or much-anticipated features will definitely not be in the final game. On the other hand, that might be providing far too much information or, worse yet, not enough information. So the fans will get to speculating and freaking out again anyway.

Honestly, I think the devs are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.