156 réponses à ce sujet

[Versus Omnibus]

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

Yate wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

I'd suggest you get over yourself.

this

also anyone who thought permanent squaddies would be in Omega is a moron

No need to be rude mister. 

My thoughts exactly.

[Versus Omnibus]

xsdob wrote...

I would love for maybe once a month or so, a dev coms on and makes a thread that acts as sorta of a town hall, open discussion between fans and the devs.

Sort of like what happened in the mp thread where bryan johnson made a thread that basically talked to the fans and answered their questions.

I actually support this idea.

[daigakuinsei]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

I appreciate the answer. But to me you just pointed out the issue that a lot of us are trying to state this entire time. You and the multiplayer team are hard at work, but you guys balance your time in order to occasionally come to the forums and discuss different topics with people (I think you even had a Q&A in there at one point). Allen, Gaider among others are practically hitting up almost half the threads that get put up in the Dragon Age 3 board, I still don't know how they do it.

I'm not working on multiplayer right now of course, but I see your point.

But its only been since recently that you guys came to the ME3 general, story and discussion boards and reply to a few people. It's one thing to want people to speculate, but it's gotten to the point where all thats left is bickering, arguing, and just general negativity all around. And we've sort of been left to eat each other in the dark pits while you guys are busy in the other boards.

I don't think I'm actively trying to avoid the general/story discussion boards, but it is far easier to reply and comment on things on the multiplayer side of things because it's a different type of work. Every reply I post in a thread that doesn't have the tag yet, that thread gets a BioWare tag on it because it's gotten an official response. 95%+ of all the questions and discussions in the general/story forums are things I cannot give a clear/concise answer on because it's either complicated, or we're working on things I can't discuss, or it's about things I can't discuss, and as much as I'd like to post and share in the discussion, I don't think it's right to tag a thread official when I can't answer the questions asked.

What you did right now (replying to someone's post) is what I generally want to see more of. I know you guys have a busy schedule, but it isn't really busy to the point where you can only post in a forum once every month right?

You tell me. I'm putting in over 40 hours on average a week, and this past week has been a bit crazy because of deadlines. Most of that time goes towards developing things and writing logic etc. Now imagine I have to sacrifice an hour a day to give a worthy/comprehensive/truthful/helpful response to 1-3 threads. That is 12.5% of my working time a week, which in turn means I'd get less done, things take longer to get finished, people get annoyed because they have to speculate longer or wait for more SP or MP DLC longer, and then posting topics asking why it's taking so damn long or why we're abandoning our game. 

You're right, we probably could repond a bit more, but it's not a very simple situation.  (Worth nothing: I'm writing this post from home, on my own time in the weekend, because I need the time at work to make cool things for you guys and gals)

Thanks dude!  You guys are the best 

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

I appreciate the answer. But to me you just pointed out the issue that a lot of us are trying to state this entire time. You and the multiplayer team are hard at work, but you guys balance your time in order to occasionally come to the forums and discuss different topics with people (I think you even had a Q&A in there at one point). Allen, Gaider among others are practically hitting up almost half the threads that get put up in the Dragon Age 3 board, I still don't know how they do it.

I'm not working on multiplayer right now of course, but I see your point.

But its only been since recently that you guys came to the ME3 general, story and discussion boards and reply to a few people. It's one thing to want people to speculate, but it's gotten to the point where all thats left is bickering, arguing, and just general negativity all around. And we've sort of been left to eat each other in the dark pits while you guys are busy in the other boards.

I don't think I'm actively trying to avoid the general/story discussion boards, but it is far easier to reply and comment on things on the multiplayer side of things because it's a different type of work. Every reply I post in a thread that doesn't have the tag yet, that thread gets a BioWare tag on it because it's gotten an official response. 95%+ of all the questions and discussions in the general/story forums are things I cannot give a clear/concise answer on because it's either complicated, or we're working on things I can't discuss, or it's about things I can't discuss, and as much as I'd like to post and share in the discussion, I don't think it's right to tag a thread official when I can't answer the questions asked.

What you did right now (replying to someone's post) is what I generally want to see more of. I know you guys have a busy schedule, but it isn't really busy to the point where you can only post in a forum once every month right?

You tell me. I'm putting in over 40 hours on average a week, and this past week has been a bit crazy because of deadlines. Most of that time goes towards developing things and writing logic etc. Now imagine I have to sacrifice an hour a day to give a worthy/comprehensive/truthful/helpful response to 1-3 threads. That is 12.5% of my working time a week, which in turn means I'd get less done, things take longer to get finished, people get annoyed because they have to speculate longer or wait for more SP or MP DLC longer, and then posting topics asking why it's taking so damn long or why we're abandoning our game. 

You're right, we probably could repond a bit more, but it's not a very simple situation.  (Worth nothing: I'm writing this post from home, on my own time in the weekend, because I need the time at work to make cool things for you guys and gals)

Totally understandable, thank you for the reply. 

But I hope that gives a little more clarity to whats going on here. In my opinion, the most common topic in the ME3 story forums to date are related to the endings, and what comes after that. I know that you guys can't talk about those due to not wanting to make things worse or revealing any secret and diabolical schemes you have relating to that topic (one can hope). But the long periods of silence really frusterates me. 

[FlamingBoy]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

I appreciate the answer. But to me you just pointed out the issue that a lot of us are trying to state this entire time. You and the multiplayer team are hard at work, but you guys balance your time in order to occasionally come to the forums and discuss different topics with people (I think you even had a Q&A in there at one point). Allen, Gaider among others are practically hitting up almost half the threads that get put up in the Dragon Age 3 board, I still don't know how they do it.

I'm not working on multiplayer right now of course, but I see your point.

But its only been since recently that you guys came to the ME3 general, story and discussion boards and reply to a few people. It's one thing to want people to speculate, but it's gotten to the point where all thats left is bickering, arguing, and just general negativity all around. And we've sort of been left to eat each other in the dark pits while you guys are busy in the other boards.

I don't think I'm actively trying to avoid the general/story discussion boards, but it is far easier to reply and comment on things on the multiplayer side of things because it's a different type of work. Every reply I post in a thread that doesn't have the tag yet, that thread gets a BioWare tag on it because it's gotten an official response. 95%+ of all the questions and discussions in the general/story forums are things I cannot give a clear/concise answer on because it's either complicated, or we're working on things I can't discuss, or it's about things I can't discuss, and as much as I'd like to post and share in the discussion, I don't think it's right to tag a thread official when I can't answer the questions asked.

What you did right now (replying to someone's post) is what I generally want to see more of. I know you guys have a busy schedule, but it isn't really busy to the point where you can only post in a forum once every month right?

You tell me. I'm putting in over 40 hours on average a week, and this past week has been a bit crazy because of deadlines. Most of that time goes towards developing things and writing logic etc. Now imagine I have to sacrifice an hour a day to give a worthy/comprehensive/truthful/helpful response to 1-3 threads. That is 12.5% of my working time a week, which in turn means I'd get less done, things take longer to get finished, people get annoyed because they have to speculate longer or wait for more SP or MP DLC longer, and then posting topics asking why it's taking so damn long or why we're abandoning our game. 

You're right, we probably could repond a bit more, but it's not a very simple situation.  (Worth nothing: I'm writing this post from home, on my own time in the weekend, because I need the time at work to make cool things for you guys and gals)

I am probably biowares most demanding customers

but I just want to say thank you for the time you took  to make this post

[Cashmoney007]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I would love for maybe once a month or so, a dev coms on and makes a thread that acts as sorta of a town hall, open discussion between fans and the devs.

Sort of like what happened in the mp thread where bryan johnson made a thread that basically talked to the fans and answered their questions.

I actually support this idea.

I like this idea as well.  This is the first topic I have seen in a while on here that has a lot of info from both devs and fans.  I consider myself a passionate fan even though I just got into this series a few months ago.  I have bought comics as well to find out more lore about the series.  I have issues with ME3 just like other fans do.  As long as something like this could be civil then it should be able to work.

Modifié par Cashmoney007, 11 novembre 2012 - 10:45 .

[Cashmoney007]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Jos Hendriks wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

I appreciate the answer. But to me you just pointed out the issue that a lot of us are trying to state this entire time. You and the multiplayer team are hard at work, but you guys balance your time in order to occasionally come to the forums and discuss different topics with people (I think you even had a Q&A in there at one point). Allen, Gaider among others are practically hitting up almost half the threads that get put up in the Dragon Age 3 board, I still don't know how they do it.

I'm not working on multiplayer right now of course, but I see your point.

But its only been since recently that you guys came to the ME3 general, story and discussion boards and reply to a few people. It's one thing to want people to speculate, but it's gotten to the point where all thats left is bickering, arguing, and just general negativity all around. And we've sort of been left to eat each other in the dark pits while you guys are busy in the other boards.

I don't think I'm actively trying to avoid the general/story discussion boards, but it is far easier to reply and comment on things on the multiplayer side of things because it's a different type of work. Every reply I post in a thread that doesn't have the tag yet, that thread gets a BioWare tag on it because it's gotten an official response. 95%+ of all the questions and discussions in the general/story forums are things I cannot give a clear/concise answer on because it's either complicated, or we're working on things I can't discuss, or it's about things I can't discuss, and as much as I'd like to post and share in the discussion, I don't think it's right to tag a thread official when I can't answer the questions asked.

What you did right now (replying to someone's post) is what I generally want to see more of. I know you guys have a busy schedule, but it isn't really busy to the point where you can only post in a forum once every month right?

You tell me. I'm putting in over 40 hours on average a week, and this past week has been a bit crazy because of deadlines. Most of that time goes towards developing things and writing logic etc. Now imagine I have to sacrifice an hour a day to give a worthy/comprehensive/truthful/helpful response to 1-3 threads. That is 12.5% of my working time a week, which in turn means I'd get less done, things take longer to get finished, people get annoyed because they have to speculate longer or wait for more SP or MP DLC longer, and then posting topics asking why it's taking so damn long or why we're abandoning our game. 

You're right, we probably could repond a bit more, but it's not a very simple situation.  (Worth nothing: I'm writing this post from home, on my own time in the weekend, because I need the time at work to make cool things for you guys and gals)

Totally understandable, thank you for the reply. 

But I hope that gives a little more clarity to whats going on here. In my opinion, the most common topic in the ME3 story forums to date are related to the endings, and what comes after that. I know that you guys can't talk about those due to not wanting to make things worse or revealing any secret and diabolical schemes you have relating to that topic (one can hope). But the long periods of silence really frusterates me. 

You have the same feelings on these issues that I do.  

[Versus Omnibus]

Cashmoney007 wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I would love for maybe once a month or so, a dev coms on and makes a thread that acts as sorta of a town hall, open discussion between fans and the devs.

Sort of like what happened in the mp thread where bryan johnson made a thread that basically talked to the fans and answered their questions.

I actually support this idea.

I like this idea as well.  This is the first topic I have seen in a while on here that has a lot of info from both devs and fans.  I consider myself a passionate fan even though I just got into this series a few months ago.  I have bought comics as well to find out more lore about the series.  I have issues with ME3 just like other fans do.  As long as something like this could be civil then it should be able to work.

So what do you think? Should I make a little town hall topic for Bioware to use?

[JMDekker2]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Jos Hendriks wrote...
*snip
Totally understandable, thank you for the reply. 

But I hope that gives a little more clarity to whats going on here. In my opinion, the most common topic in the ME3 story forums to date are related to the endings, and what comes after that. I know that you guys can't talk about those due to not wanting to make things worse or revealing any secret and diabolical schemes you have relating to that topic (one can hope). But the long periods of silence really frusterates me. 

Totes

[Cashmoney007]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

Cashmoney007 wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I would love for maybe once a month or so, a dev coms on and makes a thread that acts as sorta of a town hall, open discussion between fans and the devs.

Sort of like what happened in the mp thread where bryan johnson made a thread that basically talked to the fans and answered their questions.

I actually support this idea.

I like this idea as well.  This is the first topic I have seen in a while on here that has a lot of info from both devs and fans.  I consider myself a passionate fan even though I just got into this series a few months ago.  I have bought comics as well to find out more lore about the series.  I have issues with ME3 just like other fans do.  As long as something like this could be civil then it should be able to work.

So what do you think? Should I make a little town hall topic for Bioware to use?

I would if you think it will continue the progress with the fans and devs.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Let's be honest here, OP. How long before any thread with Casey or Mac would devolve into the oh so prominent endings discussion? While I certainly have not been secretive with my opinion toward that subject. I can understand and even appreciate BioWare's relatively silence on a given average, despite being among those who would like to hear their justification.

[Eurhetemec]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Okay, I get you. Here is where we enter a grey area where I don't have any information or past experience to go by. I don't know the best way to handle this type of situation. On the one hand, yes, it would be better for the fanbase to know that certain beloved or much-anticipated features will definitely not be in the final game. On the other hand, that might be providing far too much information or, worse yet, not enough information. So the fans will get to speculating and freaking out again anyway.

Honestly, I think the devs are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

It really is not a grey area. It may be new to you, but it's easy to look at communications between developers and fans in other games - including previous ME games - and see how it worked there.

Devs shooting down an impossible idea early on consistently results in better community acceptance of the issue. It's not "damned if they do...". Nope. That may be the case with some things, but impossible ideas? They are only damned if they don't.

I'm also really beginning to lose respect for PR people and the like who take the "damned if they do..." line. It's basically like saying "I can't do my job, I give up!", but wanting to stay employed. Sufficiently good PR and expectation management will *never* create a "damned if they do..." situation in a real way (there will always be haters, but if they are 5% of commentators or less, you just need to accept it and move on - if they are more, then PR is part of the problem).

[Eurhetemec]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Let's be honest here, OP. How long before any thread with Casey or Mac would devolve into the oh so prominent endings discussion? While I certainly have not been secretive with my opinion toward that subject. I can understand and even appreciate BioWare's relatively silence on a given average, despite being among those who would like to hear their justification.

If we're being honest, perhaps you should accept that it's immaterial if it devolves into that? Once the information has been delivered, how the rest of the thread goes doesn't really matter. Just saying whether or not Nyreen is a permanent squadmate in clear, direct terms would be helpful and honest.

[Jessica Merizan]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

And if the moderator say things like: we only want nice and calm discussions than yes, sure they want that, who doesn't like nice and calm? But that is not realistic. You have to see that not everything BioWare does is awesome, especially  when it comes to promising features and hyping a product and then delivering something different entirely. BioWare is making mistakes like everybody else and if these mistakes make people angry then there is angry feedback. That's just the way feedback works.

And like I said, BioWare simply can't expect only nice and calm. And they shouldn't. Sure I can see how that is annoying but there you go.

One of the reasons that I am less active on the BSN right now is that we are working on improving our community site, which will in turn help us better connect employees with fans, and fans with other fans. You might recall we asked people a month or so ago to help us with this process by participating in an online survey. We will continue working on these improvements so I ask that you be patient and continue submitting feedback until we're ready to roll out these new developments. 

In the meantime, I'd like to ask you to re-think the way you engage online. Yes, it is realistic to expect people to be nice and calm. If you had a dispute at a restaurant, would you start throwing your food at the waiter and literally flip a table? No. Despite your anger, you would either work things out with the staff or you would not return. Causing a scene would get you arrested IRL. 

I don't think asking you to behave the way you would if you were speaking to us face-to-face is too much to ask. It might take a few slip ups, but we're all working together to make this happen. Please think of the BSN as a restaurant or someone's house. We're happy to have you here and will gladly serve you, but your participation here is permitted as long as you follow the rules (our TOS/Site Rules). If a metaphorical table is flipped, or vase is broken, just as with someone's house or business establishment, you will be asked to leave. 

Again, I hear the OP and people commenting, and we are working hard to create an environment where you can give us constructive feedback (negative and positive) in a polite manner, we can disagree but still be on the same side at the end of the day, and we can ideally be more forthcoming about information. 

EDIT: I don't want anyone to read this and think I'm "blaming" you guys. In fact, it's our fault for not building processes so you don't feel chronic frustration. We want to connect fans with developers more and vice versa - but we want to do it in a way that is safe and positive for everyone. I know asking for patience is frustrating, but we don't want to rush this. I'm happy to answer any questions about the future of community that anyone has in a seperate thread/PM/Twitter so this thread doesn't get derailed <3

Modifié par Jessica Merizan, 12 novembre 2012 - 06:30 .

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Well, with all due respect Jessica you can't expect everyone here to be nice and calm. Especially after what happened regarding the Mass Effect endings (even with the Extended Cut in place). For a lot of us, Mass Effect is a part of our lives. If you guys decide to do something that will deeply upset us, we are going to voice our displeasure one way or another. You can't just say "If you don't like it, then leave" like a restaurant manager would say to a unsatisfied customer. This is much more than just a restaurant. I am deeply invested in the characters and universe that you guys created (which includes shepard).

So if I say "_______ really ruins the Mass Effect universe. Why would they even do that?" You can't just tell me to leave and move on to something else, because I simply won't and suggesting so will just make me more upset.

[Jessica Merizan]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Well, with all due respect Jessica you can't expect everyone here to be nice and calm. Especially after what happened regarding the Mass Effect endings (even with the Extended Cut in place). For a lot of us, Mass Effect is a part of our lives. If you guys decide to do something that will deeply upset us, we are going to voice our displeasure one way or another. You can't just say "If you don't like it, then leave" like a restaurant manager would say to a unsatisfied customer. This is much more than just a restaurant. I am deeply invested in the characters and universe that you guys created (which includes shepard).

So if I say "_______ really ruins the Mass Effect universe. Why would they even do that?" You can't just tell me to leave and move on to something else, because I simply won't and suggesting so will just make me more upset.

You are misunderstanding what I am saying. You can voice your displeasure. But you must do so in a polite and calm manner. The lines of communication cannot be opened without a mutual respect for one another. That's dev - fan and fan -  fan. You can be upset, you can be critical, but you have to do so with consideration for others and civility. 

Modifié par Jessica Merizan, 12 novembre 2012 - 08:17 .

[Fredy AG]

///

PLEASE BIOWARE... PLEASE BIOWARE... PLEASE BIOWARE... PLEASE BIOWARE... PLEASE BIOWARE... PLEASE BIOWARE... PLEASE BIOWARE... PLEASE BIOWARE... PLEASE BIOWARE... PLEASE BIOWARE... PLEASE BIOWARE... PLEASE BIOWARE... PLEASE BIOWARE... PLEASE BIOWARE... PLEASE BIOWARE...


THIS.. NEVER AGAIN !!!!!



1 - Bioware Version:








And now,


2 - The repaired by OURSELVES version, the players!:






I think Texmod does not work in Frostbite2 (for the next game), we will can not improve the quality of textures on our own. 

Better textures for consoles and PLEASE Let a HD texture pack on PC !!!






HD Textures for ME3: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/9735492

//////

Modifié par smarteck, 12 novembre 2012 - 08:44 .

[Jessica Merizan]

Fandango9641 wrote...

I think there’s plenty of value in having a good old fashioned rant; particularly as a consumer. I mean, without the huge outpouring of discontent and dissatisfaction following the release of ME3, would we have got the EC?

And as for questionable behaviour - exactly where does lying to ones fanbase rank?

Feedback that wasn't constructive was thrown out - the EC was based on constructive criticism. Nothing wrong with a good old fashioned rant as long as its civil and polite. But we will not be open for discourse nor put developers in a position where people resort to base insults. We'll work on creating processes to facilitate good discussions and the proper kinds of rant, as well as teaching people how to articulate themselves constructively. I don't think asking fans who want to communicate with devs and have their questions answered to particpate in civil discourse is too much to ask. 

[Jessica Merizan]

Fandango9641 wrote...

I can accept that Jessica, but let’s just remember that respect is a two way street and misrepresenting a product prior to release will likely lead to a harsh word or three (and with good reason). In any case, kudos to you for offering your thoughts on the BSN - it's appreciated.

Going back to the OP's request - very often, we are quiet about things because change is inevitable and we don't want to say something that could become untrue later. I can't speak for everyone in the studio, but the community team is taking extra care to ensure that everything we say from this point out is accurate and fixed information. Unfortunately, it means we won't comment on something or we have to let people speculate. And as frustrating as that is, it's out of respect. Re-building rapport and trust with you guys is important to me and the team. 

[Fraevar]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

Feedback that wasn't constructive was thrown out - the EC was based on constructive criticism. Nothing wrong with a good old fashioned rant as long as its civil and polite. But we will not be open for discourse nor put developers in a position where people resort to base insults. We'll work on creating processes to facilitate good discussions and the proper kinds of rant, as well as teaching people how to articulate themselves constructively. I don't think asking fans who want to communicate with devs and have their questions answered to particpate in civil discourse is too much to ask. 

If I may, Jess  - I think BioWare does have a long way to go there, considering there's still a lot of things that the EC didn't deal with, which seems to linger in discussions here, not because people want to hold a grudge, but because they're simply missing the context. I'm sure you've seen the threads where posters have put out hundreds of deep, thoughtful, constructive posts with their thoughts on the endings (to just be consistent with the example) pre-and post-EC, which have all gone ignored by BioWare - as far as we can see.

There hasn't really been any communication by the developers or community team, which indicates there's an understanding of the breakdown of what the developers were trying to communicate with ME3 and what this group of customers actually experienced when that material was presented to them. Essentially what's missing in that (and many other situations) is the "why". If your intent is to make the BSN a better place for discussions, the developers in charge need to be willing to come on here, be honest about what their intent on certain issues were and maybe even acknowledge that people who did not share their specific interpretation of the material, ended up with content that ended up contradicting the rest of their experience. It's the only way to clear the air. Is it always going to be positive? No, not for either party. But there's a very good chance that it will be constructive and may finally disappate this lingering air of resentment that's been hovering over this place since ME3 shipped.

[Iakus]

Delerius_Jedi wrote...

Jessica Merizan wrote...

Feedback that wasn't constructive was thrown out - the EC was based on constructive criticism. Nothing wrong with a good old fashioned rant as long as its civil and polite. But we will not be open for discourse nor put developers in a position where people resort to base insults. We'll work on creating processes to facilitate good discussions and the proper kinds of rant, as well as teaching people how to articulate themselves constructively. I don't think asking fans who want to communicate with devs and have their questions answered to particpate in civil discourse is too much to ask. 

If I may, Jess  - I think BioWare does have a long way to go there, considering there's still a lot of things that the EC didn't deal with, which seems to linger in discussions here, not because people want to hold a grudge, but because they're simply missing the context. I'm sure you've seen the threads where posters have put out hundreds of deep, thoughtful, constructive posts with their thoughts on the endings (to just be consistent with the example) pre-and post-EC, which have all gone ignored by BioWare - as far as we can see.

There hasn't really been any communication by the developers or community team, which indicates there's an understanding of the breakdown of what the developers were trying to communicate with ME3 and what this group of customers actually experienced when that material was presented to them. Essentially what's missing in that (and many other situations) is the "why". If your intent is to make the BSN a better place for discussions, the developers in charge need to be willing to come on here, be honest about what their intent on certain issues were and maybe even acknowledge that people who did not share their specific interpretation of the material, ended up with content that ended up contradicting the rest of their experience. It's the only way to clear the air. Is it always going to be positive? No, not for either party. But there's a very good chance that it will be constructive and may finally disappate this lingering air of resentment that's been hovering over this place since ME3 shipped.

This is an excellent point.  Communication goes both ways.  I've seen many a very thoughtful critique get debated and argued over by posters, but we have no idea if any attention was paid attention to by devs.  Well, unless the thread gets locked (hi, there "One Last Plea", thread!)

If people provide feedback, but there's no indication that anyone's listening, it's natural for frustration to settle in.  "Is anyone out there?"  "Am I being heard?"  "Maybe if I'm a little louder, draw a bit more attention..." 

Multiply that by however many people are on these boards and before long you're neck deep in the very ugliness you want to avoid.  It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[SimonTheFrog]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Re-building rapport and trust with you guys is important to me and the team. 

Now that is the best thing i've heard for quite a while now.

And, as you mentioned the restaurant analogy earlier, trust is not built by shiney menues but by the high quality of the stuff on the plate