639 réponses à ce sujet

[spotlessvoid]

Festae9 wrote...

Of course you can. Never give up.

Thank You! It's so messed up how people judge us for our actions. Consequences are for children

[DoomsdayDevice]

clennon8 wrote...

Yes, yes, we're out to ruin your ending, Ieldra2. It's just pure malice on our part. Paranoid much? It couldn't just be that we're saying that the last ten minutes of the game is the completely logical culmination of the previous one hundred hours of fighting space-Chthulus that go around indoctrinating every one, could it? No. That's not it. That would be weird, wouldn't it? Haha. How strange of us to think that. Indoctrination. What wacko conspiracy theorists we are, thinking the ending of a game about indoctrination was about indoctrination. Nah. That couldn't be. What would be normal is a sudden and completely unearned reversal of every theme and lesson we had learned in the first 99.5% of the story line, based on an "exposition dump" from the Reaper overlord. In the guise of a little boy. From your dreams. What would be normal is putting down Saren, who believed merging with the Reapers was a good idea, and then deciding to, um, merge with the Reapers. What would be normal is putting down TIM, who turned himself into a half-husk in an attempt to control the Reapers, and then five minutes later huskifying yourself to control the Reapers. You're right, Ieldra. We IT'ists are so unreasonable.

So much this.

How can people not see the end for what it is? No, they don't even want to consider it.

[ghost9191]

spotlessvoid wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I demand my choice to merge with the Reapers be respected!

"you don't get to make demands of the council"  

It's not indoctrination if I willingly do it.

well 1) did i miss something. my quote had nothing to do with indoctrination

2) as for consequences. that is the only real way you can judge a decision on morals. well one of the ways. ends justify the means and such . i mean you can in the moment but all choices kinda suck in the moment lol

3) well ppl don't really need to respect it. jsut understand that others have different opinions. yeah i'd be a tad pissed if you made teh choice for me . but you don't it is yours so whatever.  

Modifié par ghost9191, 09 novembre 2012 - 05:19 .

[Massa FX]

Why is there arguing on this thread? OP can head cannon whatever he/she wants. I do. So can you!

[DoomsdayDevice]

Sovereign330 wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

It's amazing that anyone who decides to interpret Synthesis and Control differently is essentially labeled a moron.

And you see, I've never accused Destroy supporters of being morons. I understand the appeal of Destroy. But I see the merits in the other choices as well, and I find them to be more attractive because they are exotic. I like the "weirdness".

But no, I'm a fool. That's the only possibility. And I've been railroaded into a single ending. Wonderful.

Thank you for understanding. I appreciate it a great deal. The goals themselves (control and synthesis) are not as important as the intent (how you use it)....For example...controlling reapers to make humans dominate the galaxy (The Illusive Man) is NOT the same as using the reapers to PROTECT the galaxy (Shepard) . People always assume the worst on this cynical and negative forum.

Ah, you're saying the end justifies the means.

That reminds me of Project Overlord, where this dude called David engaged in a gruesome synthesis in an attempt to mind control an entire race, in the hopes of avoiding a bloody war. A victory without casualties! Remind you of anything?

Let's see what happened to the dude? Ah yes, the VI drove him insane and he was in a permanent state of suffering. He who wanted to control the machines ended up being enslaved by the machine..

But I'm sure interfacing with a billions of years old, hyper-intelligent AI overlord of a mind-controlling, brainwashing, indoctrinating, genocidal apex species is a perfectly safe thing to do.

Also, I'm pretty sure Bioware wasn't trying to tell us anything with that story. It's just bad writing!

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 09 novembre 2012 - 05:21 .

[plfranke]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Sovereign330 wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

It's amazing that anyone who decides to interpret Synthesis and Control differently is essentially labeled a moron.

And you see, I've never accused Destroy supporters of being morons. I understand the appeal of Destroy. But I see the merits in the other choices as well, and I find them to be more attractive because they are exotic. I like the "weirdness".

But no, I'm a fool. That's the only possibility. And I've been railroaded into a single ending. Wonderful.

Thank you for understanding. I appreciate it a great deal. The goals themselves (control and synthesis) are not as important as the intent (how you use it)....For example...controlling reapers to make humans dominate the galaxy (The Illusive Man) is NOT the same as using the reapers to PROTECT the galaxy (Shepard) . People always assume the worst on this cynical and negative forum.

Ah, you're saying the end justifies the means.

That reminds me of Project Overlord, where this dude called David engaged in a gruesome synthesis in an attempt to mind control an entire race, in the hopes of avoiding a bloody war. A victory without casualties! Remind you of anything?

Let's see what happened to the dude? Ah yes, the VI drove him insane and he was in a world made of suffering. He who wanted to control the machines ended up being enslaved by the machine..

But I'm sure interfacing with a billions of years old, hyper-intelligent AI overlord of a mind-controlling, brainswashing, indoctrinating species is a perfectly safe thing to do.

Oh, how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

You're wasting your breath, as many people took from project overlord, "OH! CONTROL OF THE GETH IS POSSIBLE LETS DO IT ON REAPERS NOW!" Seriously, there was a thread, perhaps even this one (I kind of tried to block it out of memory) where people were talking about how Overlord proved control of the Geth was possible and it should be an option in the game to return them to the Quarians.

[CosmicGnosis]

Guys, why do you feel the need to declare that I'm genuinely stupid for not wanting to pick Destroy? I've never gone into the IT thread and told them they were stupid. I've never said that Destroy supporters were stupid. But you guys enjoy discussing how stupid I am. If you want your interpretation to be taken seriously, you have to stop being so closed-minded. If you can't admit that you might be wrong, then there is no point in ever having a debate.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 09 novembre 2012 - 05:50 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Guys, why do you feel the need to declare that I'm genuinely stupid for not wanting to pick Destroy?

Insecurity about Control and Synthesis being viable.

[spotlessvoid]

I can debate a National Socialist without thinking it's possible they're right. I can also think they're stupid without being close minded. Just saying.

[CosmicGnosis]

spotlessvoid wrote...

I can debate a National Socialist without thinking it's possible they're right. I can also think they're stupid without being close minded. Just saying.

Both sides have to admit that they might be wrong. It compels them to provide evidence for their arguments. Otherwise, an understanding can never be reached. Yes, if you want to debate political extremists, you have to let them make their case. If you disagree, then present your argument. If they don't listen, then it's their problem.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 09 novembre 2012 - 06:19 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

spotlessvoid wrote...

I can debate a National Socialist without thinking it's possible they're right. I can also think they're stupid without being close minded. Just saying.

And you can even debate against facts! 

[spotlessvoid]

Compromise isn't always the right decision. I can provide a perfectly rational, evidence based argument for why National Socialism is wrong, all without ever doubting I'm right. Synthesis is wrong. Synthesis supporters have made their case. It's been eviscerated. No need to listen to the same flawed arguments anymore.

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 09 novembre 2012 - 06:24 .

[spotlessvoid]

And for the record, I don't go into the synthesis or control threads and pester people. You're not a physical threat, so think whatever you like. I'll reserve the right to think it's blatantly ludicrous and hilariously misguided

[CosmicGnosis]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Compromise isn't always the right decision. I can provide a perfectly rational, evidence based argument for why National Socialism is wrong, all without ever doubting I'm right.

You may think it's rational and evidence-based, but someone else may disagree, and they will have to present their argument. A racist may think he's completely rational, for example.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

spotlessvoid wrote...

And for the record, I don't go into the synthesis or control threads and pester people. You're not a physical threat, so think whatever you like. I'll reserve the right to think it's blatantly ludicrous and hilariously misguided

Wow man, that's very big of you! :happy:

As for the other post... I'm sure a Naz1 can also provide a rational, evidence-based argument in favor of his own views without ever doubting that he/she is right. What's your point exactly, that you're a demogogue of equal caliber?

For that matter, I don't recall ever seeing a case for Synthesis being eviscerated. Hmm...

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 09 novembre 2012 - 06:35 .

[spotlessvoid]

My point is that after initially contemplating someones argument, I can consider it rubbish, and continue to debate it knowing it's rubbish, because some things are rubbish.

[HellbirdIV]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Guys, why do you feel the need to declare that I'm genuinely stupid for not wanting to pick Destroy?

Insecurity about Control and Synthesis being viable.

Actually it's more that if the morality issues of Synthesis escapes you, then I prefer to think you truly are stupid than believe a human being can be so despicably immoral in this modern day and age as to think that targetted eugenics, the complete eradication of diversity and forceful brainwashing of trillions of people is an acceptable outcome.

Synthesis is morally reprehensible and logically blundering, it is a badly written piece of trash ending and a horrific view into the minds of the creators and their racist and fascist mindset that all which is different is wrong and everyone must be made to believe the same thing in order for there to be peace.

Control is just normal-brand stupid.

Yes, Shepard, go ahead and grab that live wire with both hands. Sure, the Catalyst DID say it would kill you but I'm sure he was exaggarating. Of course you'll be in total control of the Reapers instead of assimilated into their hive-mind and turned into a pawn like every other person to ever have extended mental contact with them.

I see no way that this plan can fail! Grab that live wire, Shepard! 

*KFZZZT*

*Thud*

Catalyst: LOL I can't believe she bought that BS. What an arr-******. Now to eat the rest of civilization. OM NOM NOM NOM NOM.

[ghost9191]

yeah well i don't recall anyone calling you stupid cosmic. just be more specific then "guys" makes me feel part of that group . and damn it i have tried to be reasonable ffs

and control and synthesis are ok . not my choice or cup of tea but if it is yours then fine. as said do whatever you want , just don't go around bashing and giving ppl crap for their head canon . because that would make you hypocrite.           but from what you have said you understand all options are morally wrong , so yeah , we have a understanding

i would however like to point out that if you pick control or synthesis you are clearly indoctrinated

Modifié par ghost9191, 09 novembre 2012 - 06:49 .

[spotlessvoid]

If you really believe the catalyst, why not choose control, repair the crucible, citadel, and relays, then think it over, or...gasp....let people decide for themselves?

Synthesis removes the very existence of purely organic life, violates the right of every sentient being in the galaxy to self determination, and irrevocably alters the very nature of all living things. And that's if you even trust the catalyst.

Not to mention you'll never find organic produce again.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

HellbirdIV wrote...

Actually it's more that if the morality issues of Synthesis escapes you, then I prefer to think you truly are stupid than believe a human being can be so despicably immoral in this modern day and age as to think that targetted eugenics, the complete eradication of diversity and forceful brainwashing of trillions of people is an acceptable outcome.

If you think Synthesis is eugenics, diversity-eradicating, and brainwashing... then you simply don't understand what it is or what's going on in it. And that basically sums up the majority of Synthesis opposition. People don't really understand it, but don't care to. They have their own pre-conceived notions about it, and oppose accordingly.

Next?!

[Xilizhra]

Yes, Shepard, go ahead and grab that live wire with both hands. Sure, the Catalyst DID say it would kill you but I'm sure he was exaggarating. Of course you'll be in total control of the Reapers instead of assimilated into their hive-mind and turned into a pawn like every other person to ever have extended mental contact with them.

And yet somehow, shooting a tube is guaranteed to save the galaxy?

yeah well i don't recall anyone calling you stupid cosmic. just be more specific then "guys" makes me feel part of that group . and damn it i have tried to be reasonable ffs

Well, a few people called him a ****.

[spotlessvoid]

Put it like this:

If synthesis is so amazing, shouldn't be hard to convince people to do it, right?

Or do you believe that synthesis and non-synthesis people can't coexist, and that any non-synthesis people would need to be synthesized against their will for their own good? Because that sounds [i] really familiar [i/i]

[teh DRUMPf!!]

spotlessvoid wrote...

If synthesis is so amazing, shouldn't be hard to convince people to do it, right?

Nope. Bandwagon Fallacy.

[ghost9191]

Xilizhra wrote...

Yes, Shepard, go ahead and grab that live wire with both hands. Sure, the Catalyst DID say it would kill you but I'm sure he was exaggarating. Of course you'll be in total control of the Reapers instead of assimilated into their hive-mind and turned into a pawn like every other person to ever have extended mental contact with them.

And yet somehow, shooting a tube is guaranteed to save the galaxy?

yeah well i don't recall anyone calling you stupid cosmic. just be more specific then "guys" makes me feel part of that group . and damn it i have tried to be reasonable ffs

Well, a few people called him a ****.

1) damn straight it will

2) fair enough. i was just saying i didn't see it and that i was not part of that group


@HYR

good job on providing evidence to back that up. you inspire us all with your ability to work the forums

oh and it does pretty much remove the differences between organics ( making them closer to synthetics ) and synthetics in order to achieve peace. perfection yay, because that is at all possible while ppl are still somewhat organic.

reminds me of something